Ignition Coils / Turbo X - SaabCentral Forums
* site search:  
Home Saab Pictures Saab Classifieds Saab Dealer Listings Saab Forum Saab Forum

Go Back   SaabCentral Forums > Saab 9-3 SportSedan/Convertible ('04+)/Combi & 9-3X, 2003-2012 > Saab 9-3 SportSedan, Convertible ('04+)/Combi & 9-3X GENERAL Performance, Mods & Tuning
Saab 9-3 SportSedan, Convertible ('04+)/Combi & 9-3X GENERAL Performance, Mods & Tuning Covers general Tuning & Performance modifications for the Saab 9-3 SportSedan, Convertible ('04+)/Combi & 9-3X , 2003 - 2012

SaabCentral.com is the premier Saab Forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 7th September 2009
DavidP DavidP is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008                                                
Location: Texas
My Saabs: 2008 Saab 9-7 Aero, 2008 Saab Turbo X
Posts: 44
Default Ignition Coils / Turbo X

Has anyone had any issues with ignition coils going out with a stage 1 BSR tuning system? This will be my third trip to the dealer with this problem. I don't know if the BSR tuning system is to blame or if there is another reason they are going out. When it is returned from the dealer it is fine for a while then the problem reoccurs. Any information would be appreciated!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #2  
Old 7th September 2009
Molitoth's Avatar
Molitoth Molitoth is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2004                                                
Location: St. Joseph, MO
My Saabs: '04 9-3 Aero BSR-3 /// '78 99 Turbo
Posts: 831
Default

What are the symtoms of the problem? Stuttering at high rpm's at highway speeds?
__________________


Molitoth's Garage
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2978715
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #3  
Old 8th September 2009
DavidP DavidP is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008                                                
Location: Texas
My Saabs: 2008 Saab 9-7 Aero, 2008 Saab Turbo X
Posts: 44
Default Ignition Coils / Turbo X

Yes, it is a stuttering at full boost on the highway, typically in 5th and 6th gear. I am considering detuning the car to see if it still occurs because I want to know if it is a fuel shut-off issue rather than a coil issue. Any thoughts?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #4  
Old 8th September 2009
Kandiru's Avatar
Kandiru Kandiru is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2008                                                
Location: Appalachia, USA
My Saabs: 2008 Turbo X Sedan 6-Speed Navi
Posts: 930
Default

Have Stage 1 BSR, moves like an arrow.

Just did a sprint on "no man's land" a long brigde
linking two states, and boost in 5th is phenomenal
with the turbo needle at the orange/red border. Of
course at the end of the run i saw the patriotic flashies,
the OH troop clipped a Pontiac GTO just before getting
ready to speedscape to the Mountain State

Good luck with your problem. I would take the car
to AutoZone and have them run free diagnostics
with their advanced Actron scanners first, but i live
3 hours away from dealer.
__________________
UltimatePedals, USASpec PA-20GM iPod/Connects2-BTAV1, Llumar ATR15 tint rear, H&R spacers, Borbet-XL/Dunlop M3 18x8" winters, SAAB Euro Badge, Ital black frames, TurboX watch and driving gloves...Dart Vader's own anyday now
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #5  
Old 8th September 2009
HardKore HardKore is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009                                                
Location: New York, USA
My Saabs: 2008 9-3 Turbo X
Posts: 99
Default

My Turbo X "misses" in 5th and 6th gears at 2000-3000 RPM during WOT acceleration. I'm running 21psi of boost. Doesn't happen at stock 12psi boost. I'm going to check the spark plugs soon. Until then I've lowered the boost pressure down to about 15-16psi.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #6  
Old 8th September 2009
Molitoth's Avatar
Molitoth Molitoth is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2004                                                
Location: St. Joseph, MO
My Saabs: '04 9-3 Aero BSR-3 /// '78 99 Turbo
Posts: 831
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidP View Post
Yes, it is a stuttering at full boost on the highway, typically in 5th and 6th gear. I am considering detuning the car to see if it still occurs because I want to know if it is a fuel shut-off issue rather than a coil issue. Any thoughts?
Exact same issue I have in my '04 BSR Stage 3. Runs fine at stock boost, get stuttering and knock at tuned full boost 20.
Nick Taliaferro claims bad Ignition Coils is the problem, but I do not have the money to replace them all at the moment. You have a bad coil... start replacing them 1 x 1 to figure out which one it is.
__________________


Molitoth's Garage
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2978715
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #7  
Old 8th September 2009
NickTaliaferro's Avatar
NickTaliaferro NickTaliaferro is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: May 2005                                                
Location: Springfield, MO USA
My Saabs: GenuineSaab.com
Posts: 1,420
Default

Not a claim but experience with a halfdozen or so tuned up with the same symptoms.

You can gap the plugs down as a bandaid for weak spark at high cylinder pressures. I went through a handfull of coils before they would hold good with my 320hp ss. 4cyl BCPR7ES @ .8mm just to play Should be 1.0mm

You an see it with the tech2 and move the coils around to see it move cylinders.
__________________
Nicholas Taliaferro GenuineSaab.com Since 2001 and nobody could spell Tali... | TrollTuner.com
2.0 GOOSE 500whp + 8500rpm = 11.06 @125 in -09 on a gt30 and stock gears
E85 Viggen 488whp / 440wtq 12.43@114 | Nordic/GS E85 9-3 SS Aero 317hp / 350ftlbs | -72 v4 Wagon 95 120hp <The most fun of all
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #8  
Old 8th September 2009
Molitoth's Avatar
Molitoth Molitoth is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2004                                                
Location: St. Joseph, MO
My Saabs: '04 9-3 Aero BSR-3 /// '78 99 Turbo
Posts: 831
Default

After speaking to you on the phone about this Nick, I made sure I was gapped at 1mm. So without replacing coil, I could try gapping at .8mm and see if that works for awhile?

You also say Tech2 will tell us which cylinder has problem?

Brad at Georges told me I didn't have any misfires, but they did get a knock reading. Couldn't give me any any info pertaining to details of an individual cylinder... =(

although he was claiming the whole time that it was due to running lean, and a simple octane booster would fix the problem, lol.

You are the only Saab 9-3SS mechanic I trust, I'm just going to have to drive down there soon.
__________________


Molitoth's Garage
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2978715
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #9  
Old 8th September 2009
NickTaliaferro's Avatar
NickTaliaferro NickTaliaferro is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: May 2005                                                
Location: Springfield, MO USA
My Saabs: GenuineSaab.com
Posts: 1,420
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Molitoth View Post
After speaking to you on the phone about this Nick, I made sure I was gapped at 1mm. So without replacing coil, I could try gapping at .8mm and see if that works for awhile?

You also say Tech2 will tell us which cylinder has problem?

Brad at Georges told me I didn't have any misfires, but they did get a knock reading. Couldn't give me any any info pertaining to details of an individual cylinder... =(

although he was claiming the whole time that it was due to running lean, and a simple octane booster would fix the problem, lol.

You are the only Saab 9-3SS mechanic I trust, I'm just going to have to drive down there soon.
Wish you told me about this last week. We were just up at KCIR sunday for the drag races. Arrived at 9 and stayed till 6 or7.. I could have brought the suff to fix it.
__________________
Nicholas Taliaferro GenuineSaab.com Since 2001 and nobody could spell Tali... | TrollTuner.com
2.0 GOOSE 500whp + 8500rpm = 11.06 @125 in -09 on a gt30 and stock gears
E85 Viggen 488whp / 440wtq 12.43@114 | Nordic/GS E85 9-3 SS Aero 317hp / 350ftlbs | -72 v4 Wagon 95 120hp <The most fun of all
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #10  
Old 8th September 2009
Molitoth's Avatar
Molitoth Molitoth is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Aug 2004                                                
Location: St. Joseph, MO
My Saabs: '04 9-3 Aero BSR-3 /// '78 99 Turbo
Posts: 831
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTaliaferro View Post
Wish you told me about this last week. We were just up at KCIR sunday for the drag races. Arrived at 9 and stayed till 6 or7.. I could have brought the suff to fix it.

If I don't schedule a time with you by the next time you come up here, lemme know and I will for sure meet you at the track!!!!
__________________


Molitoth's Garage
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2978715
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #11  
Old 8th September 2009
Kandiru's Avatar
Kandiru Kandiru is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Jun 2008                                                
Location: Appalachia, USA
My Saabs: 2008 Turbo X Sedan 6-Speed Navi
Posts: 930
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HardKore View Post
My Turbo X "misses" in 5th and 6th gears at 2000-3000 RPM during WOT acceleration. I'm running 21psi of boost. Doesn't happen at stock 12psi boost. I'm going to check the spark plugs soon. Until then I've lowered the boost pressure down to about 15-16psi.
You are a brave man, definitely look into an Audi RS4 for a second stealth ride.
__________________
UltimatePedals, USASpec PA-20GM iPod/Connects2-BTAV1, Llumar ATR15 tint rear, H&R spacers, Borbet-XL/Dunlop M3 18x8" winters, SAAB Euro Badge, Ital black frames, TurboX watch and driving gloves...Dart Vader's own anyday now
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #12  
Old 24th September 2009
DavidP DavidP is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008                                                
Location: Texas
My Saabs: 2008 Saab 9-7 Aero, 2008 Saab Turbo X
Posts: 44
Default Ignition Coils / Turbo X

I had a very nice visit with my service manager today regarding this issue. Apparently the problem is widespread with the Turbo X and Saab Technical is working on a fix. The problem stems from the amount (%) of Ethanol that is in our fuel in North America. The way it was explained to me, the system was designed for no more than 10% Ethanol in the fuel and in fact in North America it can range from 15% to 22% depending on location. They are going to replace the bad coils that I have currently but they will in fact fail within a couple of weeks of replacement. I am hopeful Saab will issue a "Campaign" to repair the issue once an appropriate solution is found.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #13  
Old 24th September 2009
kanundrum's Avatar
kanundrum kanundrum is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Jan 2009                                                
Location: Laurel, MD
My Saabs: 2011 Saab 9-4x
Posts: 3,440
Default

Threads like this don't make me want to mess with a tune on my car.

thanks for the update keep us informed.
__________________
New Whip 2011 9-4x Aero XWD
My TurboX 02/08/2009 - 8/26/2012 RIP

3" Downpipe and Midpipe: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZ3nPLrEeRk
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #14  
Old 24th September 2009
Krieg Krieg is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2007                                                
Location: Northwest Indiana, USA
My Saabs: '07 9-3 2.0T
Posts: 1,040
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidP View Post
The problem stems from the amount (%) of Ethanol that is in our fuel in North America. The way it was explained to me, the system was designed for no more than 10% Ethanol in the fuel and in fact in North America it can range from 15% to 22% depending on location.
I call BS. That's totally not true. Gas station owners can go to jail for adding too much ethanol to the fuel. Every once in awhile, one does, but it isn't widespread.

Seeing as how ethanol is more money than gasoline, there's no reason to add any more than necessary (10% is mandated by law).

Allegedly, there's a Lexus recall to fix fuel rails that were damaged by "too much ethanol", but I have yet to see what the real story is on that one.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #15  
Old 24th September 2009
Krieg Krieg is offline
Saab Lunatic
 
Join Date: Sep 2007                                                
Location: Northwest Indiana, USA
My Saabs: '07 9-3 2.0T
Posts: 1,040
Default

If you could, ask your service manager exactly how excess ethanol causes coil packs to fail. I just don't see the mechanism there.

I will say this: putting too much ethanol in a tuned car could cause it to run excessive fuel trim, which will cause a CEL and may cause it to go lean in open loop. That could cause some issues.

I like Nick's theory: increased boost causes increased cylinder pressures, which requires a good spark to ignite. Saab just has "substandard" coil packs (not really, they're just not good enough for a tuned car with lot of boost).

Just like certain tunes require bigger injectors or turbos, maybe certain tunes require better coils.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #16  
Old 24th September 2009
Ravenous666 Ravenous666 is offline
SaabNut!
 
Join Date: Apr 2005                                                
Location: Europe
My Saabs: 4 wheels & engine
Posts: 437
Default

Faulty ignition coils where a common problem on Tuned V6 from 2008. They mostly come up when the car is tuned because the coils are without the tollerance they should be working within.

There have been multiple reports of tuned Turbo X cars failing on european forums when people got Hirsch Tuning.

After replacing the coils for some from a newer batch, the problems where gone.

The Ethanal theory sounds bull**** to me too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #17  
Old 24th September 2009
ylee coyote ylee coyote is offline
Saab Crazy
 
Join Date: Sep 2002                                                
Location: Trossachs
My Saabs: Turbo X ,500 hp 9000,900 T16s
Posts: 593
Default

my turbo x is doing this
it seems to be worse with some grades of fuel but it is worse on the 99 octane !
been into the dealer and he says nothing is wrong
He reset the ecu and it got better for a couple of days ...

This engine is used in a vauxhall variant and their fix is cooler iridium plugs

so is it coil packs or spark plugs ?
__________________
9000 aero stg 7 266k miles 500 hp six speed !
9000 cs 2.0 stage 6 350 hp track slag
900 t16s classic 184k
9-3ss 2009 turboX sportwagon 69,000 miles
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #18  
Old 27th September 2009
DavidP DavidP is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008                                                
Location: Texas
My Saabs: 2008 Saab 9-7 Aero, 2008 Saab Turbo X
Posts: 44
Default Ignition Coils / Turbo X

The issue seems to be limited to the coils, the only issue with the spark plugs is fouling after the incident occurs. I am taking my Turbo X back in tomorrow per their request and I am going to ask about some higher capacity coils and gapping of the plugs. I dont know what this would do to the other parts down or upstream, but it seems a very reasonable question. I did ask why they wanted do the repair again due to a permanent fix not being available, and he told me that they wanted to "gather more engineering data" for Saab technical. This coil problem will affect all Turbo X cars, tuned or not.
Hopefully a resolution will be forthcoming.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #19  
Old 27th September 2009
mikesul mikesul is offline
SaabNut!
 
Join Date: Jul 2009                                                
Location: SE Florida
My Saabs: '08 Turbo X Vtuner Stage 1(sold)
Posts: 372
Default

Hope it's soon as I have a little "stuttering" when stepping on it while cruising at 70-75 mph.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #20  
Old 27th September 2009
zoomer zoomer is offline
Active Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008                                                
Location: UK/WEST MIDLANDS
My Saabs: 93 v6 aero-combi
Posts: 71
Default

Why is this problem unique to just the turbo x.
So I'm right to think that the coil packs used on the turbo x are in fact different to whats used on my 06 2.8t, which could be modified by, lets say Brian at V, tune or BSR without this problem arising.
If this is so, then is it not possible to fit coils that are specified for the earlier v6 cars to the turbo x, after all this problem doesn't appear to happen on earlier 2.8t's when modified (or does it?).
It's just a thought....Perhaps someone could shed some light on this.

Cheers!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Bookmarks

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the SaabCentral Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

top of page | sitemap | email us



copyright © 2003 - 2011 saabcentral.com, All rights reserved http://www.whiter.co.uk - valid xhtml - valid css
SaabCentral is an independently run website and is not affiliated in any way to Saab Automobile AB.


Garage Plus vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.