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  #1  
Old 15th July 2009
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Default Information on T5 install into a LH 2.2 1988 900t

T5 install in an 1988 16vt with LH 2.2

This effort piggybacked on the efforts of Mike D’s install of a T5 system into an LH 2.4 900t. His sticky posts on Saablink (check the 900 board) were of great help in this effort. He lists the pin outs and a copy of a T5 wiring diagram. I installed the T5 system into my car and five days later left for a 1,400 mile road trip to Colorado from Washington State. The car runs so much better and the on boost power is hugely improved. Several years ago I had installed a standalone system system into a SAAB 16vt engine and I found this process much easier and with better benefits. I used existing SAAB parts and now don’t have to mess with cold start, idle and other settings to have a working ECU.
A big thanks to Squaab99t for making the custom hardware so that I could have a way of timing the engine.
*Photos found in post #20.*

Donor harness and parts: 1994 9000 2.3t
1.Fuel rail, fuel pressure regulator and injectors
2.Map sensor
3.Crankshaft position sensor with custom bracket
4.Crankshaft position wheel (60-2) mounted on custom mounting hub which is bolted to harmonic balancer.
5.APC solenoid
6.New compatible 02 sensor
7.New coolant temp sensor. (This is specific to T5. Sensor for a ’94 900 0r 9000 bolts right to intake without modification. And the connector is the same)
8.New Intake air temperature mounted on intake tube from intercooler
9.Throttle position sensor mounted to 2.1 normally aspirated throttle body. TPS must be switched out.
10. Red DI Cassette
11.Complete engine ’94 9000 wiring harness. The complete harness can be removed fairly easily.
12.AIC Two wire from ’89-93 900 works perfect and plugs right into harness.
13.’94 ECU. If you can, make sure the ecu and DI cassette are good.
Notes:
*1988 LH 2.2 fuel harness, APC and ignition harness was completely removed except for wires listed in pin out list.
*Some wires on my harness were of different color from wiring diagram listed by Mike D at SaabLink. Don’t sweat this, just confirm that the pin out goes where it is supposed to and label. That is why I went through all the pin outs and confirmed and labeled source before install. This was about 15-20 hours of work including adding the wires.

Once the car was ready to fire up, after charging battery, it ran without a problem and all wires were correctly sorted. Take the time to do it right and you will not have spend days chasing your tail trying to figure out why it will not run.
Harness labeled and ready to install:

*I ran the two T5 system relays exactly as shown in the diagram for a T5. I removed the stock tandem relays and used a double relay holder with larger wires as called for in the diagram. The stock LH holders have too small of a diameter wires. You can buy a holder or find a 900 with the automatic seatbelts. The relays and holder for the auto seat belts under the rear seats work perfectly. How these were wired are described at the end of the pin out section and on Mike D’s wiring diagram posted on Saablink. Photo of relays and ECU in stock Jetronic location:

*Harmonic balancer was removed to mount timing wheel hub adapter. With the harmonic balancer removed it was then easy to mount wheel position sensor bracket. Harmonic balancer was remounted and the 60-2 timing wheel bolted on. Use loctite!! Squaab99t’s hardware works perfectly. No need to fab something up and worry about finding TDC. You will lose air conditioning however.
* I had the wiring diagram for a '94 9000 enlarged to 11 inches by 17 inches and laminated to easily see the connections and where the wires ran. This ended up being a good idea.

Pin Outs I used for my ’88 900t with LH 2.2 and a few comments if relevant.
If NO is written behind the pin out I didn’t use it.
Pin number Color Description Range In/out
1 Red +30 (power supply) +12 Volt In Distribution box on passenger fender
2 Blue Boost pressure control valve Out
3 Grey Injector 1 Out
4 Blue Injector 2 Out
5 Yellow Injector 3 Out
6 White Injector 4 Out
8 --- Knock detect (knock indicator) Switches to GND Out
9 Brown/white Trigger 1 Out
10 Green Trigger 2 Out
11 Blue Trigger 3 Out
12 Grey Trigger 4 Out
13 White Engine torque limitation In NO
14 Orange Drive In NO (for auto)
15 White Brake light switch In NO
17 Yellow Combustion cylinder 1+2 In
18 Brown Combustion cylinder 3+4 In
20 PK MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) signal +5 Volt Out
22 Grey MAP sensor input signal 0 – 5 Volt In
23 Green Oxygen sensor 1 (front lambda sonde) In
24 Black/white Main ground In
25 Black/white Main ground In
26 Green Boost pressure control valve Out
27 Yellow/red EVAP canister purge valve Out NO
28 GN EVAP canister close valve Out NO
29 --- Heat plate activation relay Out NO
31 Yellow/white Main relay Out
32 Yellow/White Check engine Out NO (Don’t confuse 31 and 32, same color, yell/white)
33 Blue/white Diagnosis In/Out
36 BU/WH Cruise control In NO (Kept ’88 cruise)
39 Green Speed signal In Sourced this from the cruise control ECU
41 Yellow Crankshaft position sensor In
42 WH/BK Throttle position sensor Out
43 Blue/white Pressure sensor Out
44 Orange Knock signal In Knock signal from DI cassette to ECU
45 GN/BN Throttle position sensor In
46 Black Intake air temperature sensor In
47 Black Oxygen sensor, reference ground In
48 Red +30 (power supply) +12 Volt In HOT, Electrical distribution box on passenger fender
49 BU/VT Idle air control valve (IAC) Out
50 Black Oxygen sensor 1, preheating Out
52 YE/WH Vacuum pump, brake system Out NO
54 RD/WH A/C out Out NO
55 --- Shift up light Switches to GND Out NO
56 Violet Fuel pump relay Out Fuel pump relay. Pin 86 on fuel pump. Pulls relay to ground.
57 Yellow Throttle position signal Out
58 Blue Engine speed signal (RPM) Out Blue wire, PIN 7 into ignition control unit. 900 tach signal
59 Green/white A/C in In NO
60 Green/white +15 (switched power supply, ignition contact) In Source: Switched power to coil
62 Grey CANH (CAN bus high signal) In/Out
63 Red CANL (CAN bus low signal) In/Out
65 Red/white Programming voltage +16 Volt In
66 Black Reference ground for engine coolant temp. sensor 0 Volt In
67 Black/white Sensor ground 0 Volt Out
68 Yellow Engine coolant temperature sensor In


T5 Relays: This is visually represented on Mike D’s copy of the wiring diagram.

Fuel pump Relay Pin connections

30 Hot +12 volts
86 Switched power from center console
85 ECU runs this wire to ground via Pin 56. T5 ECU Pin 56 goes to 85 on relay.
87 Fuel pump (30 amp) fuse (use existing fuel pump wire) and then power to fuel pump.

Main Relay Pin connections

30 Hot +12 volts
86 Hot +12 volts
87 +12 volts to DI Cassette, Fuel injectors, AIC
85 Pin 31 on T5 ECU. ECU runs to ground, sending +12 power out pin 87

Good Luck!
99sven
Boulder, CO
July 2009

Last edited by dmgb5; 29th July 2013 at 05:16 PM. Reason: OP requested, removal of bad album links
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  #2  
Old 16th July 2009
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Messinian900S Messinian900S is offline
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How much did all the parts cost you btw?

I am wanting to do this for sure...and I live in FoCo...care to lend a hand some time in exchange for free inebriation?
=P
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  #3  
Old 16th July 2009
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Default

Really interesting to read what you did, and thanks for sharing it. I notice you mention using a 2.1 inlet manifold, but didn't see the head listed, unless I missed something. Did you use a 2.3 head? It makes a lot of sense to do all this if you are using the 2.3 head.
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  #4  
Old 16th July 2009
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Mods should sticky this!
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  #5  
Old 16th July 2009
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Default T5 questions....

All the parts were sourced from pull a part, ebay or craigslist. The most expensive parts were the fuel rail, injectors, fpr, ecu and wiring harness. $200. Got this off of a wrecked car on Craigslist. If you have good wrecking yards you can save a lot of money. I would plan on 3-4 bills for all the parts. Then you have to figure out how to mount the wheel and sensor. Squaab will do a run of ten if he gets enough people interested.

I used a 2.1 throttle body. Intake manifold is standard. You must use the 2.1 throttle body or make a bracket to hold the 2.1 position sensor. 9000's also have this sensor. It is smaller then the stock sensor.

I asked Alex to sticky after getting requests to write up my install. Hopefully it will get done.

Don't hesitate to ask questions. This was a fantastic change to my cars performance. Can't wait to start tuning.

Just visiting CO for a month. Hope to go to the convention in Aug. You can get me inebriated then.

Gregg
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  #6  
Old 16th July 2009
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Why you can't use orginal fuel rail? Are the injectors different size than orginal? Would Lucas TPS work with T5?
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  #7  
Old 16th July 2009
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Default Tuning with T5 Suite

I had John Williams of JZW tuning reflash and road tune my ECU this evening. I was at 18 A/F at idle and my cruising A/F were a bit rich. John spent an hour out on the road with me and changed the timing maps, fuel and got the idle correct. We also set the rev limit at 7k. The car runs so much better now. Much better power band and no hiccops on boost. 2200 to 3000 is much stronger as well. The car just takes off at 3,500 rpm and pulls very quickly all the way to 6,500 rpm. It really seems to get up on top of the cams now and eats into the fuel. John saved me a lot of time trying to reflash my ECU and get the thing tuned properly. T5 suite is very powerfull tool. You can plug into the two Can bus outputs on to the wiring loom and live tune the ECU. 2 bills well spent. I fear for my transmission now!!

http://www.jzwtuning.com/

Question about fuel rail and Lucas. I wanted to use the 9000 fuel rail because the FPR is 3.0. It was easy to use. Just put some spacers between the tabs on the rail and the bolt holes. Don't know what kind of throttle position sensor the Lucas system uses.

Last edited by 99sven; 17th July 2009 at 11:44 AM.
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  #8  
Old 18th July 2009
Mike d Mike d is offline
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This is the same mike d as on saablink, if anybody has any questions feel free to contact me via Email at

Manta106@charter.net

thanks for posting this info up on anuther site,, i honestly didnt think my install section would be this big of a deal when i did it,,, hell it only took me 7 days to do it.

i got lucky when i did mine, a local pick and pull yard has a 50$ (USD) all you can carry day once a month, i got everything almost everthing i needed for the install on one day for 50$ its pretty much the cheapest standalone youll ever come across

never mind that it works way to well to pass up
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  #9  
Old 18th July 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99sven View Post
I guess I can edit my original post just one time. I emailed Mike D about the difference between the wiring diagram and what he and I did with our installs regarding pin 59.

Mike D's original thread on T5 install.

http://www.saablink.net/forum/showthread.php?t=33456

Although the wiring diagram shows pin 59 as being for the A/C, Mike found that the car would not run without this pin having switched power. Both Mike and I sent switched power to white/greenwires at pins 59 and 60. So my pin 59 description at the start of this thread is inaccurate. I DID USE PIN 59. I would hate to screw someone up should they be using my write up as a guide.

Gregg
Couple pickups on your shopping list. Maybe the Mods can add to the original post?
1) Compatable DI cassette NGK spark plugs BCPR7ES (resistance type)
2) Saab head plug and O ring common to the cam and dist.
3) Quality butt splices. Heat shrink glue lined connectors.
As Gregg mentioned one wire will bring the whole thing to a hault.
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page14.html

Glad she is running great. Hats off to you with driving 1000s of miles away from home on your holiday. Very BOLD.... considing you did the transplant only a few days ago. You are driving toward the North American Saab convention, so there are folks who could help you out, but it sounds like she is good to go.
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  #10  
Old 18th July 2009
Mike d Mike d is offline
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congrats again, this is the same mike d from saablink

if anybody has any questions feel free to email me at Manta106@charter.net

Try T5, youll love it on these cars
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  #11  
Old 18th July 2009
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Default Shopping list

Thanks for the additions Dennis. (We did forget about the spark plugs didn't we. John mentioned that it would be better to gap the plugs at 35.) Forgot to add them to the list. One other thing I forgot to mention is that both of my relays had an 87b pin. For the main system relay I devoted one pin (87 ) for the DI cassette and the 87b pin got the fuel injectors and AIC. I did this since the DI cassette power wire is a large one. I don't know if this makes a difference but it certainly was cleaner seperating them out.

You gotta have faith Dennis!!! Besides, I trust your work.

It was stinking hot when we were tuning. 90 F at 6,000 ft. Sure could have used a transmission cooler. I forced a cooling rest when the coolant was at 210 F, oil temp at 240 F and the trans temp at 120 C. Can't imagine I will ever duplicate those conditions again but if I do I will have a tranny cooler. Off to Costa Rica for three weeks tomorrow. Hope to make the convention on my return. It will be great to come back to a sorted out T5 to drive back home with.

Gregg
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  #12  
Old 20th July 2009
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Wow, cutting edge as always. Gregg, Dennis, you two are an inspiration... I just drove home a $225 '92 2.1L 900s convertible that is going to be my NA build donor; now I am second guessing my plans! Enjoy your vacation- we should get together when you get back!


Craig
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  #13  
Old 26th July 2009
Mike d Mike d is offline
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its funny how to say its 15-20 hours worth of sorting with the wireing harness,, because it really is in that ballpark

the best thing to do is sit down in your living room with the harness, the diagram, and some masking tape and a marker and just go at tracing and labeling wires, there's really no other way
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  #14  
Old 26th July 2009
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Default And don't forget the Multi-meter....

I was very careful to make sure that I made no mistakes for this section. I wanted no surprises when I tried to start it. I bought a selection of different colored wires and sizes and just spent evenings after work preparing the harness. I actually enjoyed this part of the process. It was quite rewarding to have the harness work perfectly. I soldered many of the wires just because I didn't have any of the shrink wrap butt connectors. I would buy a bunch of these as it would be quicker and the butt connectors that shrink and spit out the sealing glue are trick.

Those of us who have done the standalone routine recognized how awesome your project originally was. I hemmed and hawed about what to do until I saw your thread. Then it was a no brainer. Then I twisted Dennis's arm to come up with the hardware. Once I got him interested in the fab part of the deal I was golden. He loves coming up with stuff like this and does a fantastic job with it.
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  #15  
Old 20th August 2009
Donkehote Donkehote is offline
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OK, my car is completely working now, and i have a few things to add.


1) When getting the harness and parts form a parts car (if your taking the parts off a car) label the connectors AS YOU REMOVE THEM! this saves countless hours with the harness. It only took me about 2 hours of work with the harness to get it all sorted.
2) MAKE SURE you time the wheel properly. i had mine indexed 20 teeth the wrong way. this will cause the engine to fire once forwards, 2 times mid stroke, and once backwards. THIS IS BAD. all you have to do is index the wheel the other way and your in business.
3) GET an idle valve from a 1990-1993 C900. this has the 2 wire Idle valve, and fits properly.
4) I found using a small aftermarket fuse block worked very well. it made it easy to keep the fuses in order, and keep everything neat and tidy.


FOR doing an 8 Valve. (NOTE, i did an engine swap, so its a 16 vlave engine, dunno about doing this for an 8 valve engine, just the 8 valve wiring)
1) You need to change the speedo to a later one (4 screws on the back of the cluster) as the 8 valve speedo has no speed signal. This can cause problems with mounting the cable, ad they sue different mounts. i was lucky, as my cable basically cannot fall out due the the clip i ran it through, but if you have a problem with the speedo cable falling out, you can glue it to the cluster (dont use too much tho, just enough to hold, as if you have to take it out its hard), or zip tie it to the wires behind the dash. just make sure you can keep it from falling out. it shouldn't want to anyway, but just in case.
2) YOUR TACH WILL NOT WORK. i had to buy an aftermarket tach, and i mounted it in the dash, right where the stock one sits. i tried all the wires relating to tach, (behind cluster, the ignition AMP, in the harness, everywhere) then discovered that the 8 vlave does something funny for a tach signal, so it wont work with T5.

The car runs so well. my only niggle is the idle drop. my car seems to sit at the rpm i leave it at after i close the throttle, like the IAC motor is sticking. so if i lift off at 3000 rpm and dip the clutch to shift, it will sit there for a second, then start to drop
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  #16  
Old 22nd August 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donkehote View Post
4) 2) YOUR TACH WILL NOT WORK. i had to buy an aftermarket tach, and i mounted it in the dash, right where the stock one sits. i tried all the wires relating to tach, (behind cluster, the ignition AMP, in the harness, everywhere) then discovered that the 8 vlave does something funny for a tach signal, so it wont work with T5.
One thing that took me a while to sort out as well, when you wire the tach sig it WONT WORK UNTIL you unplug the ignition AMP, I think it is grounding the signal.

(This was on Lucas but may well be the same on LH and on your 8V)
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  #17  
Old 27th August 2009
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Im in the process of helping somebody convert their 1991 9000 Carlsson from DI/APC +TCS To T5.2 -TCS so this thread is going a fair way to helping out. Now, as far as I can figure out for the 9000 it will pretty much just be a case of dropping the T5.2 loom and ECU (uses the same CPS as the c900) onto the engine and hooking up all the connections.

One thing I did notice a little while ago is that on the Pre-Trionic cars the REv counter was different and you cannot interchange them. The car will run without it plugged in but wont run if the wrong one is connected. Not sure if it is possible but maybe using a Trionic Tacho from a 9000 and 'engineering' it into the c900 would help? Its on the list of things to do for the Trioinic upgrade we are planning.
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  #18  
Old 27th August 2009
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Messinian900S Messinian900S is offline
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Kinda of unrelated to the post above, but I was curious if there is a certain year or model of saab that is best for the conversion?

I have a 1990 SPG and I can only assume any 94-98 9000 will work? Preferably turbo for the upgraded injectors and such right? Im looking into getting a parts car for this...
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  #19  
Old 25th September 2009
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99sven 99sven is offline
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Default You want the 94 or 95 9000 without Traction Control

Read Mike D's write up for the reasons. It is a very straightforward harness you will find in these cars.

Gregg
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  #20  
Old 18th October 2009
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Default Pictures of the engine bay

Finally got all the wires in split loom and organized the connection through the firewall. I also made a harness to connect into the SFI plug in the passenger foot well.

Pictues here:

*updated*
https://plus.google.com/photos/10231...60912305995761






Last edited by dmgb5; 28th July 2013 at 09:26 PM. Reason: OP requested: album update
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