P0715/P0720 & Gearbox Malfunction on 9-3's

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ctrlz

6,410 posts · Joined 2003

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#2 · Apr 5, 2009

Klug9-3 said:

Refused to give me specific answers to my questions. Said F#@k You and left.

Click to expand...

Good for you! These guys just suck in general, and wanna suck your wallet specifically.

I'm convinced car manufacturers and dealers are in cahoots. Manufacturers sell cars with relatively slim margins. We all know pricing info from the internet before we go shopping. Part of the sales pitch always involves a tour of the "5 Star" Service Dept. I even got to shake hands with the Dept. Manager (next time I'll double-glove for that one, thank you). Anyway the idea is eventually the car is out of warranty, Saab makes 300% on parts, and the dealer makes a bit on parts plus $90/hour labor.

I think the cars should come with a USB port and true on-board diagnostics, meaning a troubleshooting tool like the WIS is built into car. Add a wireless interface and a troubleshooting forum like SaabCentral, but actually supported and staffed by the vehicle manufacturer, something like the Microsoft knowledge base. How hard could this really be? The only reason it's not "possible" is it would screw the dealers. And the only value added by the dealerships exists because of their exclusive relationship with the manufacturer. So that value-added is wholly artificial.

Anyway, try your new sensor and I will help if I can. Check your PM.

 

P

PECo412

42 posts · Joined 2009

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#3 · Apr 5, 2009

Out of warranty service

I had some squeaking and clicking in my front suspension, so I brought my 2003 9-3 Arc with 80,000 miles to Mitchell Saab in Simsbury, Connecticut, to have the front suspension dropped and repaired. When I made the service appointment, I was given an estimate of at least $510 for the repair. The service technician found that the tops of the coil springs had rusted, so the dealership did the repair for free as an out of warranty "goodwill" service.

Not all dealership service departments are bad.

 

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weird_0ne

28 posts · Joined 2009

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#4 · Apr 5, 2009

Hey klug congrats on not taking dealship crap let me know how your install goes i maybe facing the same thing and i would like to know where those sensors are maybe you can post pics of your install ? a little how to maybe ? since everyone seems to have problems with these trannys

 

Klug9-3 Discussion starter

13 posts · Joined 2009

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#5 · Apr 5, 2009

All,
Pics and Guide will definitely get posted in a day or two. Right now I have to find the time... kids, weather, work and all.

I know not all dealers are bad, and I wrote to the dealer's owner so maybe this one will redeem itself...

Also, Thank you VERY much ctrlz!!!

 

Klug9-3 Discussion starter

13 posts · Joined 2009

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#6 · Apr 9, 2009 (Edited)

R2ing Transmission Sensors on 9-3

Tools: Ratchet, Extension, 10mm Socket, 13mm Socket, Fingers

Tools: T40? Screwdriver (found in spare tire kit), Flat Tip Screwdriver, Fingers
Note: Spare tire kit is in trunk, hopefully you unlocked it before disconnecting battery...

Tools: Ratchet, Extension, 13mm Socket
Note: Input sensor is toward the front of car. Output is identical and hidden just out of sight in picture toward back of car, easy to find.

Tools: Ratchet, U-Joint Extension, 10mm Socket, Fingers
Note: Remove bolt, and plug. Pull strait up on sensor, it will be tight due to the O-Ring.

Note: Lube sensor with transmission fluid. I used Slick 50 transmission treatment that I had laying around, then replace everything in reverse order. Afterwards head to Local Parts Store and have them clear your engine codes with their OBD-II to make the "Gearbox Malfunction" message go away.
Note: I had rubbing on the bad sensor (Input), not sure where it came from or if it was the cause or not. Curious to see what other people find.
Note: You can find the part at www.thesaabsite.com for about $150, or from the dealer for $190. They say to replace in pairs. I didn't. I'll keep you all posted on any updates, good or bad. So far about 20 miles (half highway, half city) and everything is back to normal. :cheesy:

 

Klug9-3 Discussion starter

13 posts · Joined 2009

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#7 · Apr 12, 2009 (Edited)

UPDATE: Automatic Transmission Flush

So it's been a week since the sensor swap. Still running good, but I have a long trip coming up so I wanted to flush the transmission fluid too. There's a lot of info scattered around the forums, so here is a flush and info in one place.

Below is all I needed to do it. After tons of research, I felt safe using Toyota T-IV fluid and bought a case of it @ $3.79/quart. A funnel with an adjustable valve and long flexible tube came in handy. Of course a drip pan is a must, and an adjustable wrench and 12mm socket is needed.

Here is your drain plug (located toward the back passenger side of the tranny case). With the jack under the drivers side front door, I was able to drain 3 3/4 quarts at a time, replacing the plug afterwards.

Here is your dipstick, where to add fluid (located on the lower front of the tranny case). With the jack still holding the car up, I removed the dipstick, and lowered the funnel to the dipstick hole from the engine bay. I also set the adjustable valve on the funnel to half open. If you just pour the fluid in, it will overflow. I measured out 3.75 quarts the first time and refilled that much every time, replacing the dipstick afterwards.

I then lowered the car, drove it around town quick (10 minutes: half highway, half city), and repeated the above steps 2 more times, doing a final check with the car as level as possible, running in Park. Be VERY CAREFUL, because while grabbing the dipstick, your hand is only inches away from the fan. The car holds 7.6 quarts, according to manual and if you do the math doing 3 flushes should leave you with about 10% old fluid left in the car.

Pros: Noticeably smoother shifting. Correction: Amazingly smoother shifting.The old fluid was brown and murkey and on my last round of flushing, the fluid was transparently purple. :cheesy:

Cons: None yet

Unknowns: Not sure how my seals will hold up. Alot of people say it could be bad to do a flush considering seal issues cause coolant to leak into the transmission, however I have yet to read about issues after a tranny flush. With time a factor , I decided to do it. If anyone has any questions feel free to email me at: ryanjklug@gmail.com

 

Klug9-3 Discussion starter

13 posts · Joined 2009

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#8 · May 3, 2009

Permanant Fix Discovered

Because the Saab:
costs me on average, $2k+ a year to maintain,
holds the potential for a radiator O ring to eventually leak into the transmission,
has 101 electrical issues that each cost $112 to diagnose and...
because the Saab mechanic looks like he wants to kill himself for dealing with unsatisfied customers day in and day out...
I went in search of a permanent solution to the Saab.

I found it at Toyota.
Apparently Toyota's (an Honda's) are defendable...
no no it's.. demendable?...
no no.. dammit, it's on the tip of my tongue, but I haven't used the word in such a long time...
depenticle!... errrr... no no no...

oh.. thats it.. dependable... reliable...
and NOT GM...

Owning a 9-3 is like dating a super hot model.
Every guy see's her and wants her,
but every guy knows that someone...
somewhere...
is putting up with all her ****...
and in the end it turns out that the bookwork in high school
will be the best lay of your life!!! :cheesy:

 

9-3gotboostAERO

4,598 posts · Joined 2008

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#10 · May 3, 2009

nd btw, nice job klug. if my tranny goes again (oow this time) ill be sure to contact you.

 

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woody93

358 posts · Joined 2008

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#11 · May 3, 2009

Klug, you checked the level of fluid with the car running? What happens if you do it not running? Will you see a higher level? Will it affect the level that much?

 

Klug9-3 Discussion starter

13 posts · Joined 2009

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#12 · May 3, 2009

got boost: thanks, and yeah the teach is the ultimate fantasy...lol...

woody: i am pretty sure it reads differently, at least it did for me. with the car off, it read high, really high. car running and cold it was dead on the cold dipstick line. after driving a couple miles it was dead on the hot dipstick line as well.

Again, BE CAREFUL. the genius aircraft engineers put the dipstick right next to the fans. Not cool at all. I need those fingers for that sexy little book worm of mine

 

C

cusi03

75 posts · Joined 2008

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#13 · May 3, 2009

klug, nice job on the how-to pics. F%$k shady dealers!

 

Ferms_93_2.8T

885 posts · Joined 2008

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#14 · May 3, 2009

Klug, Great Job. Seriously decent "how to". Great picks also.

 

Klug9-3 Discussion starter

13 posts · Joined 2009

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#15 · May 4, 2009

thanks everyone.. woody, the answer to the car running question will post shortly i assume? it said waiting on moderator to approve. but if it doesn't, yes it mattered when i checked it. it will read high if the car isn't running. your best bet would be to check it before you touch, add, or drain anything.. then you have a baseline to compare it to..

sorry i won't be on here anymore, being that i am a proud toyota owner now, but while i was, thank you all for your help and support with this and a million other fixes!!

 

R

Ravenous666

437 posts · Joined 2005

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#16 · May 4, 2009

You check the auto tranny oil on the 5spd with the engine running and the transmission in P.

When the engine and tranny is cold, the level needs to settle on the cold marking. When the engine is aprox. 80°C the level needs to settle on the hot marking. Difference between min. and max level is 0.3l

 

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SigurdSaab

4 posts · Joined 2007

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#20 · Jun 30, 2009

New tranny after Gearbox Malfunction SID message and P0715 code

Hi,

I had the same "Gearbox malfunction" SID display and limp home mode problem on Saturday on my 2004 Saab 9-3 Arc Convertible with 5/sentronic. I was headed out of town and my 9-3 broke down in the departure lane at the airport. Embarrassing for a car with only 50,300 miles!

Basically after the warning came on, once I made a complete stop, the car would barely inch forward even with the engine at 3K RPM and transmission in drive. I didn't try manually shifting the sentronic though. I'm not sure if this behavior was "limp home mode" or a symptom of an actual mechanical transmission problem

Anyway, I had AAA tow it to a former SAAB dealer that is right by my house (they lost their GM license as they sold only SAABs instead of Cadillac/Hummer/Saab). Today, I talked to the service dept. They charged $110 for a ODBC diagnosis, told me over the phone I needed a new transmission, and quoted me ~$4000 which from my brief research seemed high.

I was frustrated so I called Saab Customer Service. They've been quite helpful so far. However, to get any traction on goodwill work with them, the car needed to be at an active Saab dealer. Therefore, I setup an appointment to have it towed to a Saab dealer in another town nearby tonight (as a sad side note there is only 1 dealer remaining in the Seattle/Puget Sound area which has been a historically strong SAAB market with 2 million people).

When I paid for my ODBC service receipt at the first dealer, I checked the tech notes and it included the ODBC code. The code was "P0715-00" with the note "Diagnosed as needing transmission and possibly radiator".

To load it on the tow truck, I had to back the car out of the service lot. It seemed to shift into Reverse and Drive without issue which is when I started to wonder if the transmission was in as bad of shape as dealer #1 said it was.

When I got home from dealer #1 after shipping the car to dealer #2 tonight, I looked up the ODBC codes and found this post. Thank you so much for putting it there as it sounds like my problem too.

The only data point I do not have is that I'm not sure what the trans fluid is like. However, I'm basically wondering if my "failure" symptoms sound like limp home mode only and all I might need to do is spend $400 on sensor replacement.

Also did the dealer refuse to replace the sensor for you? It sounded like they were pushing the new tranny - much like what happened to me.

I live in a condo with limited working space in the garage so I'd rather just have the stealer do the sensor work since I already paid for a second tow over there. I have some other electrical work that they can fix as well. I really hope that it is just a sensor problem.

 

Klug9-3 Discussion starter

13 posts · Joined 2009

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#21 · Jun 30, 2009

SigurdSaab,

The dealer said that they would replace the sensors for me if that is what I specifically requested, but it must be done in pairs and they do not come with the "GM guarantee", so if one breaks again tomorrow, you wasted your money and they claim it will break in under 10k miles. They quoted me at about $600 to do that. The reason for saying you need a gearbox is for them to be able to guarantee their work. But only for 12 months after repair.

What you experience sounds exactly like limp home mode. There is a way to put it into 2nd gear to help with starting from a dead stop and helping you get to the garage vs. towing. You must put it in Manual and shift down. Sometimes I would have to tap it back two or three times before the car would respond, and it would jerk if the RPMs weren't at the "sweet spot" which I never did find. and from there you can also shift up to 5th as well. BTW the only gear available in AUTO mode is 5th (thus the slow start), and 2nd and 5th is avail. in MAN mode.

Here is my final opinion on this: The radiator thing is what really scares me. "Word on the street" is that in 03-04 they made a huge engineering error that allowed for coolant to enter the gearbox between 30k and 100k miles. Apparently this would destroy the gearbox, and a sign of this is that it would break the sensor first. You can find evidence of this all over the internet. Looking back, I would advise to anyone stuck with this problem to pay whatever to swap sensors and trade in. Consider the car a lemon. I have even found people paid for the tranny replacement and had the exact same problem 10, 20 or 30k miles later.

You see, with a new sensor, you can trade the car in, or sell it, if you have the ability to look someone in the face and tell them the car is fine. But if that tranny really does seize up and break, your f#cked. Just my opinion: Trade in now. I personally am fed up with GM. I have a 2005 envoy with 22k miles and, you guessed it, out of warranty. My CD player just broke for the second time (this makes 17 trips to the dealer in 22k miles for everything from interior quality to squeaking wheel bearings). yay GM..

Bottom bottom line: Buying/Keeping/Maintaining a 2003-2004 Saab 9-3 is a huge gamble. And for me, not worth it. I hate to say it, but dollar for dollar, I think you would make out better putting 4k down on a new BMW 3series.

 

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SigurdSaab

4 posts · Joined 2007

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#22 · Jul 2, 2009 (Edited)

Thanks for the reply.

The "real" Saab dealer in Bellevue couldn't repro and after 3 test drives didn't get the "Gearbox Malfunction" to reappear on the SID.

I had them replace the tranny fluid. They said there was no sign of coolant - just that it was pretty dirty and not as clean/red as it should be. They wouldn't replace the sensor as it didn't throw P0715 for them. I should have asked the directly, but didn't see your post until now.

After I picked it up from the dealer today, I drove it around. At first it was fine. However, within ~20 miles it started to spin/rev while making the 1-2 shift. The slipping got progressively rougher and "hung" without acceleration until the "clunk" into 2nd. Then as I continued driving, the same behavior started happening between gears 2-3. Finally, as I would approach stop signs, the 2-1 downshift got really rough. No SID warning though. I parked it, ate dinner, drove it afterwards and after ~15 more miles the same behaviors started happening again. Argh! It is distinctly different then limp home mode - just seems like the transmission of a worn out Yugo.

I'm really hoping I can do the sensors at home and see this problem go away. I'm going to call and order them tomorrow. Your [Klug] instructions are really helpful and make it look pretty manageable.

On top of all of this, I've also got an annoyingly squeaky serpentine tensioner ($500 quote w/new belt) as well as a bad central locking system ($725 quote). The central locking failure is causing my door locks and key fobs to stop working. My car can only be locked with the metal key in the drivers door handle now.

In the last 6 months, I've already redone the AC (no cold), fixed the convertible top (wouldn't open in low temps and bad sensors), and fixed the rear speakers.

The really disappointing part is that I tried to trade it in today and the dealer offered me $3K below the Edmunds.com dealer trade-in. It is going to cost me mucho cash to get rid of...

This is a sad situation all around. I have no confidence in this vehicle. My Z4 Roadster was flawless - I topped up 1 qt of oil in 30K miles. I really wanted to like this car, but I can't deal with the random gremlins and electrical unreliability.

 

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ShotWithAnSLR

41 posts · Joined 2006

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#23 · Aug 19, 2009

I just had a similar issue with my gearbox indicator. Every time I started my car during the last few days the SID would display the message; I decided to add Seafoam to the crankcase and fuel tank and an hour later the SID stopped showing this malfunction. Coincidence?

 

9-3gotboostAERO

4,598 posts · Joined 2008

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#24 · Aug 19, 2009

yes coincidence, the message dissapears after 5 starts of the engine lol.

It will be back

 

J

JonV

12,513 posts · Joined 2004

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#25 · Aug 20, 2009

I'm not so sure seafoam in the "Crankcase" was such a good idea...

 

sulloj

429 posts · Joined 2004

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#26 · Aug 31, 2009

trans flush

I'm going to do mine soon. (05 linear with auto)
I went to Autozone looking for toyota atf type IV. Found Castrol trans fluid for imports. Label stated for Honda, Toyota type IV, Nissan and "others"
Meets GM spec Dexron type III. I called my buddy who is a Saab Service Manager. He said Dexron type III is what I needed and said "just open the drain and replace what you took out".
The Castrol ATF seemed like the right choice and the parts guy looked it up on his computer confirming my choice.
I'm going to drain and refill. I was trained as a tech for GM back in the late 60's and have done many trans rebuilds and servicing although I'm retired now. It is a well known fact that one cannot drain the entire trans. In the real old days with rear wheel drive, some torque converters had a drain plug on them and one could actually empty the converter when doing a trans service.
But, the thinking is, that replacing some of the trans fluid with new will replenish the remaining fluid that is left in the trans. The only exception would be if the trans fluid is burnt. In that case it would be best to try and flush it several times until it looks really clean.
But for basic servicing, I think a partial change will suffice.

 

2

2005Corvette

2 posts · Joined 2009

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#27 · Sep 22, 2009

Gearbox Malfunction

2004 Saab 9-3 Arc Convertible, purchased new, now with 42K miles. To make a long story short, the Gearbox Malfunction warning appeared and had the car taken to the Saab dealer. They found 1/2 cup of coolant in a quart of transmission fluid, and diagnosed it as a leaking transmission cooler, recommending new radiator and new transmission. I elected to have the radiator replaced, as well as filling and flushing and refilling the transmission (with new fluid each time) and driving it home. Two weeks later I had to have the transmission replaced after continually degraded performance, and had that done at a quality foreign car service shop, versus the Saab dealer.

I just have a problem understanding how a 5 year old Saab with 42K miles, that has had regular service, suddenly has a major failure resulting in roughly $ 5K in repair expenses.

If this wasn't my wife's favorite car, and in great shape otherwise, I considered shooting it and burying it in the backyard.

Anyone out there had the same experiences?

 

J

JonV

12,513 posts · Joined 2004

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#28 · Sep 22, 2009

2003 and early 04 cars had an issue with O rings in the cooler lines, there was a Service Campaign where saab replaced all of the O rings which eliminated the problem. I guess the Original owner did not take it in for the fix, maybe he threw out the letter as Junk Mail.

 

J

JonV

12,513 posts · Joined 2004

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#30 · Sep 22, 2009

Here is the text of the often posted letter, with original typo's:

Dear Saab Owner,
This notice is sent to inform you that Saab Automobile AB is conduction a voluntary customer satisfaction program that affects certain 2003 and 2004 model year Saab 9-3 vehicles equipped with an automatic transmission.
We have learned that during the assembly of your vehicle's oil cooler quick couplings, the o-rings may have been damaged. A damaged o-ring could result in a coolant leak.
To prevent a coolant leak from occurring, your Saab dealer will inspect your vehicle and replace the oil cdooler's quick couplings if required. This service will be performed for you at NO CHARGE.
To limit any possible inconvenience, we recommend that oyu contact your saab dealer as soon as possible to schedule and appointment for this repair. By scheduling an appointment, your dealer can ensure that the necessary parts will be available on your scheduled appointment date.
If you have experienced this condition and it has resulted in out-of-pocket expenses, please compete the enclosed reimbursement form and submit all receipts to Saab Customer Assistance Center, 4450-A International Blvd., Norcross, GA 30093.
We sincerely regret any inconvenience or concern that this situation may cause you. We want you to know that we will do our best, throughtout your ownership experience, to ensure that your Saab 9-3 vehicle provides you with many miles of enjoyable driving.
Yours faithfully,
Saab Automobile USA