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9-3 Sedan, Cabrio ('04+)/Combi & 9-3X Workshop 9-3 SportSedan, Convertible ('04+)/Combi & 9-3X , 2003 - 2012 Technical Forum

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  #1  
Old 4th April 2009
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Klug9-3 Klug9-3 is offline
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Default P0715/P0720 & Gearbox Malfunction on 9-3's

Problem:
- "Gearbox Malfunction..." on SID
- Limp Home Mode Activated

Findings:
- 85k Miles on Odometer
- OBDII says: P0715 "Input Speed Sensor Malfunction"
- Tranny fluid is not milky, thank god, hopefully not a coolant O'ring issue
- Found 2 sensors under battery and battery housing, 1 hour to get to with normal tools plus torx screwdriver that came with car, bolted onto top of transmission with a brass bolt.
- Swapping input sensor (front?) with output sensor (rear?) created new OBDII code:
---- P0720 "Output Speed Sensor Malfunction"
- Went to Dealer for new sensor install, instead they recommended new Tranny, $3200, (no longer under warranty). Refused to give me specific answers to my questions. Said F#@k You and left.


Short Term Solution:
- Bought new sensor for $200, waiting for nice day to install

Long Term Solution:
- Get rid of car ASAP.
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  #2  
Old 4th April 2009
ctrlz ctrlz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klug9-3
Refused to give me specific answers to my questions. Said F#@k You and left.
Good for you! These guys just suck in general, and wanna suck your wallet specifically.

I'm convinced car manufacturers and dealers are in cahoots. Manufacturers sell cars with relatively slim margins. We all know pricing info from the internet before we go shopping. Part of the sales pitch always involves a tour of the "5 Star" Service Dept. I even got to shake hands with the Dept. Manager (next time I'll double-glove for that one, thank you). Anyway the idea is eventually the car is out of warranty, Saab makes 300% on parts, and the dealer makes a bit on parts plus $90/hour labor.

I think the cars should come with a USB port and true on-board diagnostics, meaning a troubleshooting tool like the WIS is built into car. Add a wireless interface and a troubleshooting forum like SaabCentral, but actually supported and staffed by the vehicle manufacturer, something like the Microsoft knowledge base. How hard could this really be? The only reason it's not "possible" is it would screw the dealers. And the only value added by the dealerships exists because of their exclusive relationship with the manufacturer. So that value-added is wholly artificial.

Anyway, try your new sensor and I will help if I can. Check your PM.
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  #3  
Old 5th April 2009
PECo412 PECo412 is offline
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Default Out of warranty service

I had some squeaking and clicking in my front suspension, so I brought my 2003 9-3 Arc with 80,000 miles to Mitchell Saab in Simsbury, Connecticut, to have the front suspension dropped and repaired. When I made the service appointment, I was given an estimate of at least $510 for the repair. The service technician found that the tops of the coil springs had rusted, so the dealership did the repair for free as an out of warranty "goodwill" service.

Not all dealership service departments are bad.
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  #4  
Old 5th April 2009
weird_0ne weird_0ne is offline
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Hey klug congrats on not taking dealship crap let me know how your install goes i maybe facing the same thing and i would like to know where those sensors are maybe you can post pics of your install ? a little how to maybe ? since everyone seems to have problems with these trannys
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  #5  
Old 5th April 2009
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Klug9-3 Klug9-3 is offline
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All,
Pics and Guide will definitely get posted in a day or two. Right now I have to find the time... kids, weather, work and all.

I know not all dealers are bad, and I wrote to the dealer's owner so maybe this one will redeem itself...

Also, Thank you VERY much ctrlz!!!
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  #6  
Old 9th April 2009
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Klug9-3 Klug9-3 is offline
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Default R2ing Transmission Sensors on 9-3


Tools: Ratchet, Extension, 10mm Socket, 13mm Socket, Fingers



Tools: T40? Screwdriver (found in spare tire kit), Flat Tip Screwdriver, Fingers
Note: Spare tire kit is in trunk, hopefully you unlocked it before disconnecting battery...



Tools: Ratchet, Extension, 13mm Socket
Note: Input sensor is toward the front of car. Output is identical and hidden just out of sight in picture toward back of car, easy to find.



Tools: Ratchet, U-Joint Extension, 10mm Socket, Fingers
Note: Remove bolt, and plug. Pull strait up on sensor, it will be tight due to the O-Ring.



Note: Lube sensor with transmission fluid. I used Slick 50 transmission treatment that I had laying around, then replace everything in reverse order. Afterwards head to Local Parts Store and have them clear your engine codes with their OBD-II to make the "Gearbox Malfunction" message go away.
Note: I had rubbing on the bad sensor (Input), not sure where it came from or if it was the cause or not. Curious to see what other people find.
Note: You can find the part at www.thesaabsite.com for about $150, or from the dealer for $190. They say to replace in pairs. I didn't. I'll keep you all posted on any updates, good or bad. So far about 20 miles (half highway, half city) and everything is back to normal.
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Last edited by Klug9-3; 9th April 2009 at 01:25 AM. Reason: i have ocd... everything has to be perfect...
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  #7  
Old 12th April 2009
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Default UPDATE: Automatic Transmission Flush

So it's been a week since the sensor swap. Still running good, but I have a long trip coming up so I wanted to flush the transmission fluid too. There's a lot of info scattered around the forums, so here is a flush and info in one place.

Below is all I needed to do it. After tons of research, I felt safe using Toyota T-IV fluid and bought a case of it @ $3.79/quart. A funnel with an adjustable valve and long flexible tube came in handy. Of course a drip pan is a must, and an adjustable wrench and 12mm socket is needed.



Here is your drain plug (located toward the back passenger side of the tranny case). With the jack under the drivers side front door, I was able to drain 3 3/4 quarts at a time, replacing the plug afterwards.



Here is your dipstick, where to add fluid (located on the lower front of the tranny case). With the jack still holding the car up, I removed the dipstick, and lowered the funnel to the dipstick hole from the engine bay. I also set the adjustable valve on the funnel to half open. If you just pour the fluid in, it will overflow. I measured out 3.75 quarts the first time and refilled that much every time, replacing the dipstick afterwards.



I then lowered the car, drove it around town quick (10 minutes: half highway, half city), and repeated the above steps 2 more times, doing a final check with the car as level as possible, running in Park. Be VERY CAREFUL, because while grabbing the dipstick, your hand is only inches away from the fan. The car holds 7.6 quarts, according to manual and if you do the math doing 3 flushes should leave you with about 10% old fluid left in the car.

Pros: Noticeably smoother shifting. Correction: Amazingly smoother shifting.The old fluid was brown and murkey and on my last round of flushing, the fluid was transparently purple.

Cons: None yet

Unknowns: Not sure how my seals will hold up. Alot of people say it could be bad to do a flush considering seal issues cause coolant to leak into the transmission, however I have yet to read about issues after a tranny flush. With time a factor , I decided to do it. If anyone has any questions feel free to email me at: ryanjklug@gmail.com
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Last edited by Klug9-3; 12th April 2009 at 07:25 PM.
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  #8  
Old 3rd May 2009
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Klug9-3 Klug9-3 is offline
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Default Permanant Fix Discovered

Because the Saab:
costs me on average, $2k+ a year to maintain,
holds the potential for a radiator O ring to eventually leak into the transmission,
has 101 electrical issues that each cost $112 to diagnose and...
because the Saab mechanic looks like he wants to kill himself for dealing with unsatisfied customers day in and day out...
I went in search of a permanent solution to the Saab.

I found it at Toyota.
Apparently Toyota's (an Honda's) are defendable...
no no it's.. demendable?...
no no.. dammit, it's on the tip of my tongue, but I haven't used the word in such a long time...
depenticle!... errrr... no no no...

oh.. thats it.. dependable... reliable...
and NOT GM...

Owning a 9-3 is like dating a super hot model.
Every guy see's her and wants her,
but every guy knows that someone...
somewhere...
is putting up with all her ****...
and in the end it turns out that the bookwork in high school
will be the best lay of your life!!!
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  #9  
Old 3rd May 2009
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9-3gotboostAERO 9-3gotboostAERO is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klug9-3 View Post
and in the end it turns out that the bookwork in high school
will be the best lay of your life!!!
no no u got it all wrong... banging the teacher so u can pass in highschool will be the best lay of your life...
even if she looks rosie o donnell. life is **** anyways
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  #10  
Old 3rd May 2009
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nd btw, nice job klug. if my tranny goes again (oow this time) ill be sure to contact you.
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  #11  
Old 3rd May 2009
woody93 woody93 is offline
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Klug, you checked the level of fluid with the car running? What happens if you do it not running? Will you see a higher level? Will it affect the level that much?
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  #12  
Old 3rd May 2009
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Klug9-3 Klug9-3 is offline
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got boost: thanks, and yeah the teach is the ultimate fantasy...lol...

woody: i am pretty sure it reads differently, at least it did for me. with the car off, it read high, really high. car running and cold it was dead on the cold dipstick line. after driving a couple miles it was dead on the hot dipstick line as well.

Again, BE CAREFUL. the genius aircraft engineers put the dipstick right next to the fans. Not cool at all. I need those fingers for that sexy little book worm of mine
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  #13  
Old 3rd May 2009
cusi03 cusi03 is offline
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klug, nice job on the how-to pics. F%$k shady dealers!
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  #14  
Old 3rd May 2009
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Ferms_93_2.8T Ferms_93_2.8T is offline
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Klug, Great Job. Seriously decent "how to". Great picks also.
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  #15  
Old 3rd May 2009
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Klug9-3 Klug9-3 is offline
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thanks everyone.. woody, the answer to the car running question will post shortly i assume? it said waiting on moderator to approve. but if it doesn't, yes it mattered when i checked it. it will read high if the car isn't running. your best bet would be to check it before you touch, add, or drain anything.. then you have a baseline to compare it to..

sorry i won't be on here anymore, being that i am a proud toyota owner now, but while i was, thank you all for your help and support with this and a million other fixes!!
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  #16  
Old 4th May 2009
Ravenous666 Ravenous666 is offline
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You check the auto tranny oil on the 5spd with the engine running and the transmission in P.

When the engine and tranny is cold, the level needs to settle on the cold marking. When the engine is aprox. 80C the level needs to settle on the hot marking. Difference between min. and max level is 0.3l
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  #17  
Old 6th May 2009
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JMarkert JMarkert is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctrlz View Post
Add a wireless interface and a troubleshooting forum like SaabCentral, but actually supported and staffed by the vehicle manufacturer, something like the Microsoft knowledge base. How hard could this really be?

LOL, I agree with most of this, but Microsoft tech support???? The folks who mastered the double-negative grammar challenged dialogue box?? It almost makes me respect GM
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  #18  
Old 27th May 2009
CMerriman CMerriman is offline
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Exclamation

I've also had fantastic experiences with Mitchell Saab in Simsbury. Matt (service manager) has been great to me and has helped me out a bunch of times whe he didn't have to.

Not all dealerships are created equally, that's for sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PECo412 View Post
I had some squeaking and clicking in my front suspension, so I brought my 2003 9-3 Arc with 80,000 miles to Mitchell Saab in Simsbury, Connecticut, to have the front suspension dropped and repaired. When I made the service appointment, I was given an estimate of at least $510 for the repair. The service technician found that the tops of the coil springs had rusted, so the dealership did the repair for free as an out of warranty "goodwill" service.

Not all dealership service departments are bad.
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  #19  
Old 28th May 2009
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Klug9-3 Klug9-3 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sean.maguire View Post
I am going to do the tranny flush tomorrow what is the best fluid the Toyota or the mobile 3309 what do you guys recommend? Also when you are draining and filling are you draining until nothing else comes out or do you measure the amount you drain out and then put the same amount in. I ask because i am concerned with over filling the transmission?
from what i have researched (extensively) they are the same thing. Your saab's tranny is made by toyota or a branch of toyota and is the same thing that's probably in the celica, even supra maybe?

i drained until nothing came out anymore. then i did a little fluid swapping between containers to figure out how much i used.. i drained into a pan, then poured that into a clean empty gallon milk jug. it just happened to fill it perfectly the first time. but it was pretty low on the jack. i think the higher you have the jack, the more that will come out. anyhow, it will take a little bit of thinking like that to figure out how much to replace.

you'll get close like this. close enough, to not ruin anything while running the engine to check the fluid.

*NOTE* when filling, if you fill to fast, it will overflow, giving you the impression that it is full. obviously if you drained an gallon easily and are overflowing with your first quart replacement, it is because your pouring to fast...

just take your time and think about what you are doing, and you will be fine...
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  #20  
Old 30th June 2009
SigurdSaab SigurdSaab is offline
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Default New tranny after Gearbox Malfunction SID message and P0715 code

Hi,

I had the same "Gearbox malfunction" SID display and limp home mode problem on Saturday on my 2004 Saab 9-3 Arc Convertible with 5/sentronic. I was headed out of town and my 9-3 broke down in the departure lane at the airport. Embarrassing for a car with only 50,300 miles!

Basically after the warning came on, once I made a complete stop, the car would barely inch forward even with the engine at 3K RPM and transmission in drive. I didn't try manually shifting the sentronic though. I'm not sure if this behavior was "limp home mode" or a symptom of an actual mechanical transmission problem

Anyway, I had AAA tow it to a former SAAB dealer that is right by my house (they lost their GM license as they sold only SAABs instead of Cadillac/Hummer/Saab). Today, I talked to the service dept. They charged $110 for a ODBC diagnosis, told me over the phone I needed a new transmission, and quoted me ~$4000 which from my brief research seemed high.

I was frustrated so I called Saab Customer Service. They've been quite helpful so far. However, to get any traction on goodwill work with them, the car needed to be at an active Saab dealer. Therefore, I setup an appointment to have it towed to a Saab dealer in another town nearby tonight (as a sad side note there is only 1 dealer remaining in the Seattle/Puget Sound area which has been a historically strong SAAB market with 2 million people).

When I paid for my ODBC service receipt at the first dealer, I checked the tech notes and it included the ODBC code. The code was "P0715-00" with the note "Diagnosed as needing transmission and possibly radiator".

To load it on the tow truck, I had to back the car out of the service lot. It seemed to shift into Reverse and Drive without issue which is when I started to wonder if the transmission was in as bad of shape as dealer #1 said it was.

When I got home from dealer #1 after shipping the car to dealer #2 tonight, I looked up the ODBC codes and found this post. Thank you so much for putting it there as it sounds like my problem too.

The only data point I do not have is that I'm not sure what the trans fluid is like. However, I'm basically wondering if my "failure" symptoms sound like limp home mode only and all I might need to do is spend $400 on sensor replacement.

Also did the dealer refuse to replace the sensor for you? It sounded like they were pushing the new tranny - much like what happened to me.

I live in a condo with limited working space in the garage so I'd rather just have the stealer do the sensor work since I already paid for a second tow over there. I have some other electrical work that they can fix as well. I really hope that it is just a sensor problem.
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