Epic Understeer

[kanundrum]

Ok sooo Just got back from Autocrossing.

Even with the Alignment my car still understeers, going in and coming out of turns. Its bad with ESP off and even worse with ESP on.

What kind of solutions can I do here ? Maybe get some camber bolts for the front and adjust them extreme ?

Also in terms of XWD and ESP

ESP cuts the crap out of your engine power if it detects you pushing it to hard and doesnt like it, but when its off how does the XWD react ?

Any info on this would be great for the autoxing season

[robhurlburt]

esp kills the power, I have found that many times. Not sure what to do with the understeer though

[lmpreza]

understeers? under acceleration???

Never heard of it!

[kanundrum]

lmao funny. In my Scion all I had to do was remove the front sway and voila oversteer

[phillyb]

remove the sway bar?
damn
did you upgrade the rear as well?
to the op - possible rear sway bar upgrade? tighter end links. that will help the rear end come around more. idk what's available for your car.

[kanundrum]

Nothing I think

[Topher]

The car does understeer, but it's more driver than car, likely.

Sounds like you are going into the corners too hot, in autox it's usually the case that you "slow down to go faster"

If I drive "fast" and really push the car (in autox) I often do much slower than if I am composed and easier on the car/go pedal.

[kanundrum]

Originally Posted by Topher

The car does understeer, but it's more driver than car, likely.

Sounds like you are going into the corners too hot, in autox it's usually the case that you "slow down to go faster"

If I drive "fast" and really push the car (in autox) I often do much slower than if I am composed and easier on the car/go pedal.

Great! Ill keep this in mind for next time

[cavedudejeff]

Originally Posted by Topher

The car does understeer, but it's more driver than car, likely.

Sounds like you are going into the corners too hot, in autox it's usually the case that you "slow down to go faster"

If I drive "fast" and really push the car (in autox) I often do much slower than if I am composed and easier on the car/go pedal.

Ill second that one... you're probably hitting the corners way to fast. In my 05 i don't have much understeer to worry about even though i'm FWD. Some of the various things i've had done def help in that aspect but even when I had my Linear at stock it was a lot less understeer prone than a lot of other cars I've driven.

I hope you're also not riding around the track on factory rubbers as well.

[kanundrum]

Originally Posted by cavedudejeff

Ill second that one... you're probably hitting the corners way to fast. In my 05 i don't have much understeer to worry about even though i'm FWD. Some of the various things i've had done def help in that aspect but even when I had my Linear at stock it was a lot less understeer prone than a lot of other cars I've driven.

I hope you're also not riding around the track on factory rubbers as well.

I actually am but its not tracking the car, its just a autocross in a parking lot and the factory rubber = Pirelli P0's so I am goood.

[oravla]

I agree with the above comments. Probably you are entering the corners to fast and accelerating to early or to heavy out of them.
But it is important to remember that most street cars will understeer at the limit because it is safer and easier to control to an average driver. Typically, front engined front wheel drive cars will understeer more because of the heavy weight in front. It's just physics.

I would recomend you to play with the tire pressures a little (it's cheap). Ussually more pressure to the front than the rear will decrease understeer. And try some trailbraking when entering a corner. That also help to reduce understeer.

[Topher]

Originally Posted by kanundrum

I actually am but its not tracking the car, its just a autocross in a parking lot and the factory rubber = Pirelli P0's so I am goood.

Aren't those all season tires?

As the other guy said, play with tire pressure. Jack up the tire pressure to artificially strengthen the sidewall, I would usually run 42-44 if I am on crappy tires (sorry, A/S are crappy tires)

Running summer tires (Azeni 615s) I usually run 35-38psi.

Trail braking will work. Another tactic that takes awhile to grasp is, going hard, lifting off the gas abruptly, stabbing the brakes and rotating the car.

This upsets the balance of the car and allows it to rotate easier as it induces oversteer.

It can take awhile to get this right.

[lmpreza]

Originally Posted by Topher

Aren't those all season tires?

As the other guy said, play with tire pressure. Jack up the tire pressure to artificially strengthen the sidewall, I would usually run 42-44 if I am on crappy tires (sorry, A/S are crappy tires)

Running summer tires (Azeni 615s) I usually run 35-38psi.

Trail braking will work. Another tactic that takes awhile to grasp is, going hard, lifting off the gas abruptly, stabbing the brakes and rotating the car.

This upsets the balance of the car and allows it to rotate easier as it induces oversteer.

It can take awhile to get this right.

No, P-Zero Nero's are UHP rated tires.

[Topher]

Originally Posted by lmpreza

No, P-Zero Nero's are UHP rated tires.

Depends on what model.

They make PZero Nero All seasons.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/pirelli/pirelli-tires.jsp

[lmpreza]

Originally Posted by Topher

Depends on what model.

They make PZero Nero All seasons.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/pirelli/pirelli-tires.jsp

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....del=PZero+Nero

[kanundrum]

its the PZero Nero Summer Tires not the All Seasons

Combined with Turning Traction Control off and Playing with Tire pressure, my time did improved by 3 seconds but I think no where near what my time should be

[loplop]

FWD with a heavy nose can definitely be a liability on the autox course. To really compete, you'll need stickier tires, unless you stay in street tire, and even then some RE-01R's or similar will be better.

To decrease understeer without fitting a larger rear sway (which will bump you into another class), I'd try running the aforementioned 36-38 psi in the front (try some chalk on the tire to see if you're rolling onto the sidewall, increase pressure until you do not) and something like 42 psi rear. Fiddle around until you get a little better rotation in the rear.

Try "slow in fast out." This is how I have to drive my Subaru STI; that car is heavily front biased (in terms of weight) and charging the corner will simply result in "epic understeer" as you say. Going in slow and easing into the gas, at full by the apex or just beyond, will result in much faster corner exits. I suspect the Saab will drive better this way, too.

Definitely turn off ESP.
I wouldn't characterize our 9-3 Aero SC as having "epic understeer" at all, so likely some small changes in pressures and driving will help a lot.

[kanundrum]

I have a 9-3 XWD (TurboX) but coming from my FWD scion I know what you mean in terms of everything haha.

[loplop]

Originally Posted by kanundrum

I have a 9-3 XWD (TurboX) but coming from my FWD scion I know what you mean in terms of everything haha.

Ah, yes (sorry I missed that), then definitely try driving it like a Scooby. STI's understeer like mad if you don't live by the "slow in fast out" rule.

Just come into the turn slow, get into the throttle a tad earlier than apex to spool, and then put it down. Let XWD sort out the traction. If it's anything like the STI you will be much faster this way.

Tweak the tire pressures, too.

[kanundrum]

Originally Posted by loplop

Ah, yes (sorry I missed that), then definitely try driving it like a Scooby. STI's understeer like mad if you don't live by the "slow in fast out" rule.

Just come into the turn slow, get into the throttle a tad earlier than apex to spool, and then put it down. Let XWD sort out the traction. If it's anything like the STI you will be much faster this way.

Tweak the tire pressures, too.

Awesome I will try this in 2 weeks! =D