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  #1  
Old 10th January 2009
Mike Trainor Mike Trainor is offline
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Default Engine code P1117

I'm still have a few issues with my daughters 97 900s. The check engin elight come on from tim eto time and the code is "P1117 Saab Rear HO2S Bank 1, Control Module Input, Current in Pre-Heating Circuit Too Low"

What is the remedy for this. If a senor has to be changed can you let me know it's location.

thanks,
Mike

Last edited by Mike Trainor; 11th January 2009 at 09:28 PM.
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  #2  
Old 11th January 2009
john bernard john bernard is offline
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Mike

My car is a V6, but is Motronic. Yours is Motronic, but a different version.Anyhow, in mine and probably in yours the O2 sensor preheaters aren't really needed most of the time. All they do is get the O2 sensor working a few minutes sooner during warmup. The preheater is integral in the O2 sensor. In the V6, you can pull the fuse (#38) which serves the preheaters or you can cut the power cord to the preheater with no ill effects and no CEL.
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  #3  
Old 11th January 2009
Mike Trainor Mike Trainor is offline
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Thanks John,

Just looking at the price of these things at autozone. Not cheap. And probably 50% more here.

I see that there is a sensor before and after the catalytic converter. Correct? So I take it that the rear bank means the one after the converter.

Think I'll try the fuse, and fix it in the spring.

Mike
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  #4  
Old 11th January 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Trainor
Thanks John,

Just looking at the price of these things at autozone. Not cheap. And probably 50% more here.

I see that there is a sensor before and after the catalytic converter. Correct? So I take it that the rear bank means the one after the converter. No, as the terminology used by OBD is universal, all the engine types are covered,
The "rear bank" refers to a V6 engine rear bank which has its own converter....

Think I'll try the fuse, and fix it in the spring.

Mike
Still, for me to interpret "OBDese", its difficult.....IMO, it implies that someplace in the oxygen sensor circuit, there is a shortage of current due to ? dirt ? ... corrosion ??..

Plan on changing the sensor sooner or later..
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  #5  
Old 11th January 2009
john bernard john bernard is offline
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Mike
Since the trouble code is telling you that you have a problem with a sensor that you don't have; I'd have a tough time taking the code very seriously.
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  #6  
Old 11th January 2009
Mike Trainor Mike Trainor is offline
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Yes, if the Wright brothers had to deal with all this, they never would have gotten off the ground.
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  #7  
Old 11th January 2009
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P1117 in land rovers are the O2 censors i know, how conveinent eh? yeah, there pricey, my disco likes new ones every time the brakes and rotors go bad.
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  #8  
Old 12th January 2009
hkayssi hkayssi is offline
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Mike check if the O2 sensor is an OEM one, the Bosch universals won't work right. If the plug is spliced, it's a universal for sure and those generally trigger CELs

Last edited by hkayssi; 12th January 2009 at 01:10 PM.
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  #9  
Old 13th January 2009
Mike Trainor Mike Trainor is offline
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Well there is still an issue. This evening I brought the car for an oil change. And after it was finished the car would not start. There was spark to the distributor, but it didn't fire.

Now the preamble to this is that last week I brought it to be inspected. they brought it inside, and after they finished they told me the car wouldn't start so they pushed it outside. I went to the car, turned the key, it fired but didn't start right away. It took 4-5 tries but then it started.

Then yesterday I took it to a garage to get the SRS reset. Again, after it was done, it didn't want to start. 4-5 tries and it started. I was leaning towards fuel pressure until today.

So this evening I realized that the car doesn't like to be warm. So I had them push it outside. I went for a 20 minute walk. When I cam back it would fire (every time) but not start. I gave it another 15 minutes. Then after 4-5 tries (it fired each time) it started. Then it drove home like nothing ever happened.

By the way the P1117 code appeared again.

What would make a car fire for one second, then stop.

What does the fuel injection relay do?

Man the next time I hear someone say how great EFI is I'm going to gag. I'm ready to put points and an SU on this thing so it will at least be reliable.

Hope someone has the answer to this.

Cheers,

Mike

Last edited by Mike Trainor; 13th January 2009 at 08:35 PM.
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  #10  
Old 14th January 2009
hkayssi hkayssi is offline
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Man your car will like the weather in the next few days. Temps of -24 not counting the wind chill factor Siberia is warmer than that

intake temp sensor maybe???
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  #11  
Old 14th January 2009
Mike Trainor Mike Trainor is offline
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Yes, it started really well this morning.

I'm thinking that all these problems are related to grounds. I was reading a thread last night that mentioned that all systems are controled by ground. In other words the ECU grounds a device rather than sending power to it.

Another symptom is that the gas guage is flaky. I hit a speed bump and it goes to empty. Then the next speed bump it comes back. I thought that maybe I didn't fully connect the connector at the tank, but now I'm wondering if it isn't another ground issue.

Is there a place near the ECU where several grounds wires go to frame?
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Old 14th January 2009
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Darren900 Darren900 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Trainor
Is there a place near the ECU where several grounds wires go to frame?
Yup. Remove the glovebox and pull back the carpet - you'll see it. More likely, a ground point has crapped out under the hood. A thorough inspection is in order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkayssi
Man your car will like the weather in the next few days. Temps of -24 not counting the wind chill factor Siberia is warmer than that
It bothers me when people talk about wind chill when relating information about inanimate objects. Wind chill is strictly a human (animal) phenomenon and is not relevant when referring to something like a car. Sorry to be nitpicky, and -24 is still damn cold
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Old 14th January 2009
Mike Trainor Mike Trainor is offline
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The ticky part here is that while it's cold, there is no problem. So how do you find a problem, when there is none. Secondly, I don't know the car well. So where everything is is a mystery.

It seems to me, that if the ground was inside the car, I would have the problem once the heat has been on and inside the car is warm. Unless the ground is to the firewall where the outside would still be cold.

So let's say the problem last night was related to injectors cutting out. Or I lost spark after the engine first fired. Where does the ECU ground these systems?
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Old 14th January 2009
hkayssi hkayssi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darren900
Yup. Remove the glovebox and pull back the carpet - you'll see it. More likely, a ground point has crapped out under the hood. A thorough inspection is in order.



It bothers me when people talk about wind chill when relating information about inanimate objects. Wind chill is strictly a human (animal) phenomenon and is not relevant when referring to something like a car. Sorry to be nitpicky, and -24 is still damn cold
Yes and no The point was that the car cools down to the real temperature, with a higher lower wind chill factor, faster than it would without them and that would help Mike start the car faster.

The wind chill factor would also make a popsicle of our friend Mike who is trying to work on his car in this kind of weather. Mike, take a break
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  #15  
Old 14th January 2009
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Isn't the CPS affected as the vehicle temp rises and falls? I remember that cold starts and warm not-starts could be related to the CPS.

Sno
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Old 14th January 2009
john bernard john bernard is offline
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Mike
I had a warm no start problem that had driven the PO to sell the car as undriveable. Symptoms similar to yours. The 'miraculous' cure happened when I cut the power line to the O2 sensor preheater. A British SC member-RingoStar- with a 1995 V6 cured his by pulling fuse 38, the preheater fuse.

Last edited by john bernard; 14th January 2009 at 02:55 PM.
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  #17  
Old 14th January 2009
Mike Trainor Mike Trainor is offline
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John, this does sound similar. As well I got the P1117 fault yesterday evening which is related to the sensor. can you tell me where the sensor is and what color the wire is?

Update. I just pulled the fuse and the car still runs.

As there any logic as to why this keep the car from starting?

Update #2. I just tried to start the car again, cold. It didn't start until I put back the fuse. I think today is just too cold, not to have the preheater.

Last edited by Mike Trainor; 14th January 2009 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 14th January 2009
john bernard john bernard is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Trainor
John, this does sound similar. As well I got the P1117 fault yesterday evening which is related to the sensor. can you tell me where the sensor is and what color the wire is?

Update. I just pulled the fuse and the car still runs.

As there any logic as to why this keep the car from starting?

Update #2. I just tried to start the car again, cold. It didn't start until I put back the fuse. I think today is just too cold, not to have the preheater.
Mike
I'm not familiar with the 4 cyl, but you should find the sensor in the exhaust pipe near the manifold. I first discovered my problem solution by disconnecting the electrical connection to the sensor. I suggest you try that. I cut the preheater wire later.
As to theory, mine is that power to the preheater was somehow 'leaking' to the line that carries voltage from the sensor to the ECM. The preheater receives 12V and the sensor signal is between zero to 1V.
The O2 preheat shouldn't help you get a cold start. I am not sure if 38 is the preheater fuse in your car. That's one reason I'd like you to try the sensor disconnect.
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Old 15th January 2009
Mike Trainor Mike Trainor is offline
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hi John,

Well the car didn't start this morning. It's -26C (-14F). One think I hadn't done was to check for spark after the distributor. I did that this morning and it was firing.

When I brought it in to have the SRS reset on Monday, he said to first check the connector for the O2 sensor, so I'll try that mid day. I think it's one of the connectors behind the engine,so I'll find the sensor and follow the wire.

I think that the problem might be related ti the O2 sensor, but it's an expensive part and I would like to be sure. I know that when I removed the fuse yesterday it didn't start, so it's a posibility.
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  #20  
Old 15th January 2009
hkayssi hkayssi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Trainor
hi John,

Well the car didn't start this morning. It's -26C (-14F). One think I hadn't done was to check for spark after the distributor. I did that this morning and it was firing.

When I brought it in to have the SRS reset on Monday, he said to first check the connector for the O2 sensor, so I'll try that mid day. I think it's one of the connectors behind the engine,so I'll find the sensor and follow the wire.

I think that the problem might be related ti the O2 sensor, but it's an expensive part and I would like to be sure. I know that when I removed the fuse yesterday it didn't start, so it's a posibility.
I've seen some brand new genuine OEM Bosch O2 sensors (not universal Bosch sensors) sell on ebay for $45
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