|
|
|
|||||||
| Register | Garage | Photo Gallery | FAQ | Calendar | Search | Today's Posts | Mark Forums Read | Auto Escrow | Auto Loans | Insurance |
| Classic Saab 900 Performance, Mods & Tuning Covers Tuning & Performance modifications for the Classic Saab 900 |
![]() |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
#1
|
|||
|
|||
|
Mods - can we make this a Sticky?
I will resize the large images shortly This post attempts to draw together a staggering amount of information that is freely available on forums such as this about how to build a sturdy SAAB transmission. None of this information is mine but comes from a large group of contributors on the various forums. Particular contribution came from Dave Barrow (including most of the photos) and Emmett Jenner as well as a legion of regular contributors including birdiemango, old_saab_man, Ericsson, nutcase and too many others to mention...you know who you are! The main issues with the gearbox are its tendency to flex at high torque and internal gearbox temperatures and lubrication failure. Part 1. The Case Chillcast When it comes to talk of gearboxes the talk inevitably comes around to the elusive Chillcast case (or “kokill” if you are scouring the Swedish Ebay). Chillcasting is a technique used in the casting process to control the rate of cooling to introduce a stronger grain formation in the alloy. For that reason they are deemed to be a stiffer box. These 4 speed boxes were fitted in early 99’s from 1975 to around 1979. Being 4 speed they are perfectly appropriate for Track use although it is possible to fit a 5 speed pinion shaft and primary housing to convert to a 5- speed Chillcast gearbox. Depending on the model year of the parts used this may or may not need slight modifications to the box to allow it all to fit. There are three 4-speed Chillcast boxes – the most common being 870423 and 871239, the first number is the strongest of the two and should be used for high HP and torque. But, there are many sub-models and variations and not every Chillcast box is the same. There is also a Chillcast pinion housing and a Chillcast primary housing. It is rare to find all parts together on one gearbox. ![]() ![]() 870423 and 871239. Photo: D Barrow What you see in both of the images is the three ridges that run down the primary casing. Each ridge is roughly 3cm wide with a 1cm gap between. On any other gearbox the ridges are about 1cm wide with a 3cm gap. This is the first thing to look for although it is no help if the gearbox is still mounted in the car! The stronger of the two boxes shows three diagonal ridges on the corner of the oil pan. This is what you look for showing you it is the stronger variant. If the box is in the car you will find the part number embossed on bottom. ![]() Chillcast 870423 number stamp Photo: D Barrow The stronger chillcasts seem to be found in ’77-’79. The date stamp is often found in the side. This one is from 1976: ![]() Chillcast date stamp Photo: D Barrow The third Chillcast box is from the early 99’s around 1972, part number 870352, it looks identical to the later box – with the three diagonal ridges – but you cannot fit the Chillcast pinion housing (more on that later) to this box, because reverse gear on the pinion shaft will bottom out on the inside of the casing. 5 Speed Chillcast Converting a 4speed case to 5 speed can be done by simply using the primary gear housing from a 5 speed box. Some modifications may be needed to the inside of the Chillcast casing to allow the internals to fit but this depends on which parts you are using. Of the 5 speed primary gear casings anything after ’88 is good as from then onwards the input shaft was made larger and an additional bearing set was added to the upper primary gear. Alternatives A Chillcast gearbox is not the only option however. Over the years SAAB made several changes to both the box and the internals. More recent gearboxes have a higher magnesium content in them which makes them brittle and more susceptible to corrosion but they are significantly lighter than the chillcasts. Of the non-chillcast boxes the later years are stiffer than the earlier models.
Modifications Two options for modifying the case have been welding extra support or fabricated cradles. Welding extra alu sections to the exterior of the case has potential to increase stiffness but welding cast aluminium is not so straightforward; cast alloy has lots of voids which does not make for a particularly good weld and heating aluminium above 450° can cause it to loose its temper (not ‘it gets angry!’ ) which can actually make it weaker. Not that it can’t be done. Below is a photo of Will Gollop’s gearbox case: ![]() Welded Strengthening. Photo D. Barrow A few people have constructed cradles which support the outside of the case – most of the flex is at the differential area. Steel diff plates (see below) are extended to ‘wrap’ around the sides of the gearbox to provide additional stiffness. A more recent consideration is cryo-treating the case. Aluminium is extremely responsive to cryo-treatment and this could be an avenue worth pursuing. Last edited by Genty; 10-09-08 at 12:34 PM. |
| Sponsored Links | ||
Advertisement | ||
|
#2
|
|||
|
|||
|
Parts
With the gearbox case decided upon and any modifications you may chose to make, the choice of components can have a cumulative effect on the longevity of the gearbox. A lot of parts nowadays are becoming NLA but there is still a supply of 99s and 900s being broken for spares and can be found in scrap yards. Some of the parts are cheap while some, more esoteric, custom items are significantly more expensive. What follows is not a rigid order of importance but a suggested route based on availability and increasing costs. 1. Internals
2. Rear steel diff cover
![]() 3. Chillcast pinion housing - or custom steel housing
![]() Chillcast Pinion Housing on the left. Photo: D Barrow
4. Oil Cooler
5. New bearings
6. Steel pinion spacer
|
|
#3
|
|||
|
|||
|
The First Stage of Gearbox Strengthen
At this point cost comes into play. So far – for a few hundred quid you could build a durable gearbox based on:
After this the cost goes up as you will need custom work and custom parts to further strengthen the gearbox. The Second Stage of Gearbox Strengthening 7. Gear treatments
8. Steel inner drivers.
9. LSD.
The Third Stage of Gearbox Strengthening
|
|
#4
|
|||
|
|||
|
Oil
The type of oil you use – and how regularly you change it – can have a profound effect on not just the longevity of your gearbox but also the shifting. There are three issues which have exacerbated the problems with the SAAB gearbox:
Thick oils work better than thin oils and if using synthetic oil then it must be designed for gearboxes. Synthetic engine oil should not be used. Below are a few oils which have been recommended:
Filling the gearbox with oil Ideally, all of the original oil will be drained to avoid contamination of the new oil and the components will be washed in kerosene or similar solvent to remove old oil. If you cannot do this then the next best method is to remove all gearbox covers to clear as much of the old oil as possible. The gearbox should be out of the car to fully clear all of the oil. If you are unable to open all of the covers and cannot turn the gearbox on its side to drain all of the old oil then up to a litre of the original oil will stay inside the gearbox. If the gearbox is still in the car then it might be possible to use in oil extractor through the side cover and by sliding into the bottom of the primary chains housing to remove the last of the old oil. When filling a recently drained or rebuilt gearbox it is important to prime the Primary Housing. As the gearbox has no oil pump it relies on the kinetics of the moving gears to circulate the oil. To start with, remove the wire clip that the cover onto the front of the primary housing. Pry off the round disc behind it. Behind this you will see the top primary gear and a small white plastic propeller. Pour in about 0.3L of oil in between the top primary and the casing. This small amount of oil will sit in the bottom of the primary housing and lubricate the chains and tensioner. |
|
#5
|
|||
|
|||
|
Rebuilding your own gearbox
1. Research and decide what kind of gearbox you want to build. Standard or modified, 4 or 5 speed, synchros or not, etc, etc, There is some information in this article but also lots of information elsewhere on the Internet. General engineering principles apply: Strengthening of certain areas will result with a stronger gearbox but a properly rebuilt gearbox will be better than an old worn gearbox in the first place. Obtain and study the Saab workshop manual that describes the rebuilding process. 2. Collect the parts you need to build your gearbox. The relationship between the differential crown wheel and the pinion gear on the end of the pinion shaft must be maintained. If this measurement changes then you increase the chance of excessive noise and wear and the chance of a gearbox failure. Only new or parts less than 6000 miles old can be assembled to original specifications printed on the gears themselves or in the manuals. When you are removing the parts from the original gearbox you should measure the depth of the pinion gear. The depth is controlled using shims underneath the housing for the pinion bearings. Measure the distance between the bottom of the openings for the drivers and the top of the pinion gear, At least .5mm accuracy is needed. A special Saab tool is available to make this measurement. The tool holds a dial-gauge so you can get an accurate reading. A reading could be taken without this special tool if it is unavailable but you need to be able to accurately measure before removal and again during installation. 3. Soak the parts in kerosene or similar solvent such as petrol to remove old oil. 4. If building a new box from various components then it is a good idea to ‘Dry assemble’ the box to begin with to make sure all your chosen components will work with each other. Do not use your new bearings or threadlock and do not fully torque any fasteners or set any clearances at this stage. Just make sure all the components are compatible. Disassemble and correct any problems. 5. Once you are confident you understand the assembly process then you can begin to build the box following the manual to obtain order of assembly and specifications. Finding a specialist to rebuild a gearbox for you 1. Recommendations from other Saab owners are probably your safest bet. Anyone can tell you they can rebuild your transmission but it’s one of those things that’s easier said than done. Worst case scenario, your chosen specialist does not even do the job himself and actually sends your gearbox away to be rebuilt by an unknown builder. Make sure the builder does not simply swap your box for some other box and claim he is providing you with a rebuilt box – unless you are happy with this solution. 2. Know your specifications and tell the builder what you want. Provide details of preferred primary drive ratio, oil you want to use and any other specifications you feel are important. Also ask for the quote to include all replacement bearings but be aware that a full set of bearings will cost around £300 at retail prices. 3. It is a good idea to agree with the builder on what sort of terms you will work if there is a problem with the rebuilt gearbox. A properly rebuilt gearbox should’t have any issues if the rebuild has been completed properly. Your gearbox builder might not be prepared to provide any kind of warranty due to the transmission being pushed so far beyond its original specifications. You might be able to agree on some conditional terms. A lot of work is required to install or remove a gearbox and neither the builder or the owner will want the box in and out of the car more times than necessary. |
|
#6
|
||||
|
||||
|
Great post, thanks.
[QUOTE=Genty]Do not use AMS Oil Manual Synchromesh Transmission Fluid. It is too thin and has been proven to not work too well in these transmissions.[/QUOTE] Curious about this, as I used it for some time until I had a gasket leak and refilled with something else. I had no problems with it over 6-8 months, although I guess long term effects can't really be determined there.
__________________
The faster you go, the more you see. |
|
#7
|
||||
|
||||
|
Great job and write up Genty. This start is great.
I have a list of bearing/journal numbers per OEM for all bearings found in a 5spd 88 adapted to a 78 chillcast. I can PM them to you and perhaps augment this write up. Perhaps E. Jenner can add information regarding SAAB special tools. I know that a significant portion of my first time rebuilding a tranny was making and acquiring the tools to do the job "properly". Having access to a hydraulic press helps. In response to RB, I would add Royal Purple Synchromesh Fluid. It works great in other applications, but not in SAAB 900 trannies. It seems the "thinness" makes it susceptible to heat breakdown. ps |
|
#8
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Genty - Nice job, Sir.
__________________
Adrian Soon to be living life on the road in an old VW http://WhereverTheRoadGoes.com |
|
#9
|
||||
|
||||
|
Thank you so much you have no idea how useful this is going to be for a lot of people!
__________________
Drive it like you stole it! |
|
#10
|
|||
|
|||
|
A pleasure. As I said it is really so many other peoples knowledge I have just tried to combine into one convenient place.
My 'expertise' (if you can call it that!) is with the V4. I have been helped by so many with my 99 project I'm glad to be able to contribute. It wasn't entirely altruistic either - it's all prep for my own grand plans! As for any changes or additions I'll keep going back to it every now and again and updating it. Opinions change and technology develops. I think for a rebuild article (with part numbers and torque settings and clearances etc) that really should be another Sticky Thread. I have a really good rebuild pdf but have not actually been inside one of my c900 boxes but will gladly compile if someone with more experience would like to pick up the gauntlet! |
|
#11
|
|||
|
|||
|
I've also found it to be an excellent thread and, this afternoon, it's helped me to establish that the gearbox that I've just taken off of my little 99 is one of the stronger chillcast types and it's only done 45k from new.
Since I'm in the midst of a t16 conversion on this car, the 'box will be ideal apart from one thing: the primaries are gear driven (I think that all <76 99 'boxes were). Can the later chain drive and extra 5th gear be added to this box without making internal mods? Alanb |
|
#12
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
__________________
The faster you go, the more you see. |
|
#13
|
||||
|
||||
|
Yeah, I've been using the amsoil MTF with no issues. Its basically synth engine oil with syncromesh additives of some sort. I'm not sure about the "thin" thing - one of the reasons Saab recommend engine oil is because it has the right viscosity to flow properly through the narrow channels in the gearbox.
Great guide though, I'll be referring to it in the coming months for my gearbox rebuild |
|
#14
|
||||
|
||||
|
Great thread,
And as i think i might have just lost transmission number 4 (either final drive or diff) it is about to come in very handy. G |
|
#15
|
||||
|
||||
|
Just to add a few things I've seen on my works dogbox:
On 900's the factory would replace the AC evaporator with an oil cooler and vent the output through the floor. The cabin fan is left in place so as to provide additional cooling if needs be. This would only be suitable for a track car- even then you loose the ability to defrost the windshield! The oil pump is wired to run whenever the motor is on. The side covers are steel as well. The bearing seats for the diff are steel. The inner drivers are sleeved with steel tubing. Shotpeening specs: 280 shot 12-14 almen Mask any bearing surface or internal surfaces where the shaft or muff contacts. Shotpeen the gear teeth only. Maybe one day I'll get around to posting photos of the dogbox. |
|
#16
|
||||
|
||||
|
I'd like to see those photos of the Works gearbox. Always wondered how they did this, not so much because I will ever be able to afford one, but because it is so cool! Like window shopping...
Also why isn't this thread a sticky? It is the most comprehensive guide to gearbox modification I have seen anywhere. I know as an N/A owner I don't need any of this, and should have no interest, but I know I'm going to put together a gearbox with at least some of these modifications in mind when mine (whining at the moment) decides to go. |
|
#17
|
|||
|
|||
|
i think that it might be a bit much, but has anyone ever thought of making an entirely steel case? i think it would solve most of the problems, although how you would do it, i have no idea.
also, you could possibly make more space for larger internals. i dunno, i was just thinking... EDIT: i just realized that if you were gonna go that far, you may as well not make it FWD, and just do a full on RWD conversion Last edited by Donkehote; 22-09-08 at 10:34 PM. |
|
#18
|
||||
|
||||
|
Great Summary. Why isn't this a sticky? It seems the gearbox gives a lot of people problems and this seems to be a thread giving real solutions. Sticky
|
|
#19
|
||||
|
||||
|
Donkehote: There was another gearbox thread where people discussed the pros and cons of making a cast iron gearbox case. I'd do it if I had money! Sounds like it would make the thing indestructible, when mated with timken bearings and a good set of gears. The shell, in aluminum, doesn't weigh much, so doubling its weight by making it in cast iron wouldn't do any more harm than offsetting my A/C delete. And the reason you don't make it rear wheel drive is because once you start doing things like that, it isn't really a 900 anymore. I'd never think of such an atrocity.
Also, if this thread becomes a sticky, the spelling of the word "definitive" in the title has to be changed. |
|
#20
|
|||
|
|||
|
euro, i do realize that its not a c900 if its not FWD. its just that if your gonna go so far to add that much power that even chillcast wont cope, then RWD is a more reasonlabe solution. you can USE that power at further ranges, not just halfway down the straight. it also makes more sense to do RWD for me anyway, where il be racing mostly RWD vehicles, and i wont be bale to keep up for all the wheelspin :P
im in the same boat as you tho, i dont have the money or the time to get/make a cast iron case, or even to do a RWD conversion. |
| Sponsored Links | |
Advertisement | |
![]() |
| Bookmarks |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|