Water to supplement Petrol??

[jackchoo]

Anyone heard of HHO or Brown's gas?

Been seeing all these DIY kits made available that uses the car battery to convert water into HHO (2 parts hydrogen and one part oxygen) gas. The gas is somehow channeled back into the intake or vaccuum to supplement the petrol....

I was actually curious after a short visit to a local workshop and saw then installing the device into a couple of saabs....

snake oil??

http://www.water4gas.com/2books.htm

[JMarkert]

Snake Oil, I think. HHO is H20=water - I'm guessing this is just a water injection method, which is maybe slightly useful, but probably a nightmare to regulate in a modern engine.

Alternatively, it really is an electrolysis system, making hydrogen and oxygen but leaving them mixed up. As this handy wikipedia entry notes, you can't get extra energy out of doing this - it takes energy from the battery to split the water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen

[Sailorguy]

yeah-- i've seen those kits. they advertise that the combination of oxygen and hydrogen gas (added to regular air coming in your intake) will increase the efficiency and power of the engine, improve fuel economy.. etc etc. like the wiki article says, you can't get energy from nothing-- the net result will be a loss. another way to look at it: if it was such a great idea, increased power, better mileage, and only cost a few 100 dollars, why wouldn't car companies be installing these things themselves?

[Sirhc]

Yea, I've bought one for the weekend project. I bought the HAFC unit and a car lift to install it. I'm almost 100% certain it will not work, but thought it would be nice to try it out, and see what type of results I get. My lift arrived about two weeks ago, and it is set up except for adding the finishing touches. I expect to have it completed in the next couple of weeks. The HAFC unit took about 8 weeks to show up. I could not find any "local installer" so the company sent me the training videos for installing the unit. I'm planning on installing it on a Ford Explorer, have to put it on one of the cars that I do not care about incase it blow the engine. What I'm interested in finding out is if the snake oil solution is just taping into the fuel line decreasing fuel flow and leaning out the engine to increase fuel mileage or if it really works. If it really works I also want to find out if it works for a short period of time and then the ecu adapts. Again I know this is almost 100% not going to work I thought it would be fun to play around with it, and see what happens.

[Dex4]

I am working on a kit right now, using a spiral copper core, I couldn't find any stainless steel. Hopefully I can get it in within the next week and post up some results. Basicly it will add hydrogen into the air mix which will give it a little more power and as far as I know you do not have to mess with the fueling. I am not doing this for power increase, but for mileage. I travel 60 to 80 miles a day for work.

[Sailorguy]

Dex4, unfortunately your system isn't going to help. The energy the device uses from the car's electrical system, which ultimately comes from the engine via the alternator will decrease your mileage more than whatever amount of H2 the system produces would increase it (if it would have that effect at all). The only way the system could have any positive effect would be if its electrical source was independent from the car's engine-- i.e., a battery that you charge from the wall and use to power that device. Otherwise, the law of conservation of energy tells us that you will have no net gain, only losses due to additional friction, and all of the energy conversions involved.

[II Kings 9:20]

There is one of these contraptions running around Japan using only water. The conversion device sits in the rear hatch and takes up most of the passenger compartment and uses multiple large batteries to generate the electricity to get the HHO.

These dainty little devices all over the web using a Mason Jar and a couple of wires to the battery are a complete fraud. 4 ounces of water to go 200 miles? It will take more energy to get the HHO than the HHO yields (much like ethanol from corn). Energy can not be created or destroyed, only transformed; The First Law of Thermodynamics

[Abarth]

A local TV station, KNBC I think (LALA LAND), did an expose on these contractions soon after gas went crazy and had a couple of labs test them, none of them worked and indeed did decrease the milage over stock.