Anyone has the owner's manual for a '94 900S? Quick question about Spark plug gap. - SaabCentral Forums
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  #1  
Old 19th February 2008
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Default Anyone has the owner's manual for a '94 900S? Quick question about Spark plug gap.

I'd like to buy it from you. Need it for a 1994 900S 2.3L non-turbo.

But for a quick reference, could you flip to the page where spark plug gap should be? I just bought 4 BCPR6ES plugs and want to know how much I should gap them. Thanks.
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Old 19th February 2008
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What's the whole number for the plugs? BCPRS6ES-a_number.
You cant gap the plugs more than .008".
Im not 100% on this, but the plugs for your engine is BCP7EV/S.
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Old 19th February 2008
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0.024 " from memory

0.039 (0.9mm) Bosch FR7D+ from Haynes

0.6 mm (0.024") NGK BCP6EV from the OM

Interesting, such a gap difference between two brands(and heat range), but the same 2.3 na engine...
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Old 19th February 2008
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This really bothers me that the gaps and plugs are so inconsistent from different sources.

0.024" is what it has in my manual for the '97 900s non-turbo, it should be the same??

What is the difference between BCPR6E and BCPR6ES? The plugs I got doesn't have a number after BCPR6ES. Did I get the wrong plugs again?? According to NGK's site, I need BCPR6E gapped at 0.024"
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Old 20th February 2008
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WIS for 1997 2.3 N/A specs .6mm.
2.54 cm = 1 inch, so 25.4mm = 1 inch.
.6mm over 25.4mm = .023622 inch, which is darn close to .024 inch.

On NGK plugs, the dash number at the end tells you the gap on pre-gapped plugs. dash 11 means 1.1 mm and dash 8 means .8mm.

Last edited by Saabohème; 20th February 2008 at 09:23 AM.
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Old 20th February 2008
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One of todays problems is excessive infomation...people, including me love stats and data, but only if they serve a known purpose.

The important things are :
1... proper installation
2... correct heat range
3... correct electrode gap... I cannot explain why a Bosch is at 0.09 mm and the NGK is at 0.06...

We need more feedback, but for now, I would use either one, set at their recommended gap....
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Old 20th February 2008
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I'll grab my owners manual when I come back from lunch and scan in the page with the info. Oddly enough my $500 dollar Saab had the manual and all documentation in the glove box to include the window sticker
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Old 20th February 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaboheme
WIS for 1997 2.3 N/A specs .6mm.
2.54 cm = 1 inch, so 25.4mm = 1 inch.
.6mm over 25.4mm = .023622 inch, which is darn close to .024 inch.

On NGK plugs, the dash number at the end tells you the gap on pre-gapped plugs. dash 11 means 1.1 mm and dash 8 means .8mm.
This is a great chart, but maybe I am not too bright at reading it. I still can't figure out what the difference is between BCPR6E and BCPR6ES.
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Old 20th February 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArmySaab
I'll grab my owners manual when I come back from lunch and scan in the page with the info. Oddly enough my $500 dollar Saab had the manual and all documentation in the glove box to include the window sticker
MUCH MUCH APPRECIATED!
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Unfortunately it won't let me attach the pdf it's apparently to big. So I'll type it in


Spark Plugs

2.3i ____________ NGK BCP 6EV(precious metal)
2.0 Turbo________ NGK BCPR 7ES
2.5 V6___________ Bosch FR8 LDC(normal driving)
Bosch FR7 LDC (heavy driving)

Electrode gap:

2.3i_____________ 0.024" (0.6 mm)
2.0 Turbo________ 0.039" (1.0 mm)
2.5 V6___________ 0.031" (0.8 mm)

Firing Order if you need that as well is

2.0/2.3_________1-3-4-2
2.5V6___________ 1-2-3-4-5-6

I'll try to attach the pdf tonight from home
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Last edited by ArmySaab; 20th February 2008 at 01:08 PM.
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Old 20th February 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ches
This is a great chart, but maybe I am not too bright at reading it. I still can't figure out what the difference is between BCPR6E and BCPR6ES.
Mainly it tells you if it will fit and the firing end construction. An S at the end means it has standard configured center electrode of 2.5 mm versus the E which is a V grooved center electrode.
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Old 20th February 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaboheme
Mainly it tells you if it will fit and the firing end construction. An S at the end means it has standard configured center electrode of 2.5 mm versus the E which is a V grooved center electrode.
Any reason that I should be worried about using standard configured centre electrode versus the V grooved? If OE specs call for BCP 6EV, is it asking for a V-grooved centre electrode?
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Old 20th February 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ches
This really bothers me that the gaps and plugs are so inconsistent from different sources.

0.024" is what it has in my manual for the '97 900s non-turbo, it should be the same??

What is the difference between BCPR6E and BCPR6ES? The plugs I got doesn't have a number after BCPR6ES. Did I get the wrong plugs again?? According to NGK's site, I need BCPR6E gapped at 0.024"
For your car, IMO, it makes not an iota of difference.. For the newer cars, it may...
Note that the "S" is supplemental info..
One should be able to secure information from the dealer on this subject; the dealer should check his tech service bulletins...
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Old 20th February 2008
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Yes, probably doesn't matter too much. But I just like to have the proper and most optimal parts. I feel that by going to platinum plugs on my other car actually made my car start harder (more cranks).


I went back to the store and they have both BCPR6E and BCP6E, which ones should I take?
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Old 20th February 2008
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My comparison was from the plug shown on the chart (ES) to a plain E end code. The EV ending means they are spec'ing a plug with a 3/4" or 19mm thread reach and a fine wire center electrode of gold palladium construction. I find it difficult to believe that fine wire electrodes of exotic precious metal alloys (save for platinum, which was a fairly common type of plug then) were called for in 1994.

The most fundamental difference between fine wire or small diameter center electrodes and the larger disameter standard electrodes is that the fine wire types require less potential to discharge and arc across the gap at ionization. This is beacuse electrons are emitted where the electrical field strength is greatest - that is, from wherever the radius of curvature of the surface is smallest. Accordingly, a sharp point or an edge rather than a flat surface, makes for a good cathode.

Accordingly, they will fire in suboptimum conditions, but will produce a weaker spark. (The more potential at the point of ionization, the more energy the spark will have to initiate the flame front).
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Old 20th February 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaboheme
My comparison was from the plug shown on the chart (ES) to a plain E end code. The EV ending means they are spec'ing a plug with a 3/4" or 19mm thread reach and a fine wire center electrode of gold palladium construction. I find it difficult to believe that fine wire electrodes of exotic precious metal alloys (save for platinum, which was a fairly common type of plug then) were called for in 1994.

The most fundamental difference between fine wire or small diameter center electrodes and the larger disameter standard electrodes is that the fine wire types require less potential to discharge and arc across the gap at ionization. This is beacuse electrons are emitted where the electrical field strength is greatest - that is, from wherever the radius of curvature of the surface is smallest. Accordingly, a sharp point or an edge rather than a flat surface, makes for a good cathode.

Accordingly, they will fire in suboptimum conditions, but will produce a weaker spark. (The more potential at the point of ionization, the more energy the spark will have to initiate the flame front).
You seem to know alot about plugs, how do you access the chart? If you were me, which ones would you put in?

BCPR6E
BCP6EV
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  #17  
Old 20th February 2008
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You do not have Trionic engine management. Yours is Bosch Motoronic. Trionic uses the spark plugs as sensors to monitor ions in the combustion before and after combustion, so plug choice can be downright critical. If you choose a plug that differs too far electrically from the parameters that Trionic expects and likes to see, it will not perform to its fullest potential. Motronic is more forgiving in this regard. With conventional coil and high tension leads, I have always run the hottest coil with the highest saturation point and lowest rise time I could find for a decent price with copper or silver cored center electrodes that I could safely overgap slightly. This increases spark energy and the copper cored or silver cored electrodes have the least electrical loss (they are excellent conductors electrically) and the greatest thermal transfer (they also conduct heat extremely well). They erode faster than iridium and platinum and palladium and other fine wire alloys, but they can be cleaned and regapped and reused or replaced relativley cheaply (although the Beru Silverstone Plug is pretty expensive). I think ES will work just fine for you and if not, you can try a finer center electrode of platinum.
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  #18  
Old 20th February 2008
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Thanks for the detailed explanation. Since they are the same price, do you think I should take the V-grooved BCPR6E over the BCPR6ES?
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Old 20th February 2008
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V grooved may work very well for you. The groove provides sharp edges to intensify the electric field at the edges to improve the efficiency of the electrode as a cathode (emitter). I really doubt it will cause any issues for you and in theory, should yield a mildly enhanced spark propogation. The downside is that you will have to watch erosion somewhat carefully. It is at the emission points that the electrode erodes most prominently. At some point, the edges will round and retreat and you will be running a more conventional electrode after all.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saaboheme
V grooved may work very well for you. The groove provides sharp edges to intensify the electric field at the edges to improve the efficiency of the electrode as a cathode (emitter). I really doubt it will cause any issues for you and in theory, should yield a mildly enhanced spark propogation. The downside is that you will have to watch erosion somewhat carefully. It is at the emission points that the electrode erodes most prominently. At some point, the edges will round and retreat and you will be running a more conventional electrode after all.
Great, I'll try these V-grooved ones for the '94. On my '97, I bought the NGK Platinum plugs and gapped them at 0.024" I feel that ever since I change the plugs, I need to crank more before it kicks in, especially when the engine is warm. I am thinking about widening the gap to about 0.035" to increase the strength of the spark, what do you think?
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