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  #1  
Old 31st January 2008
91900turbo 91900turbo is offline
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Unhappy One of my engine oil cooler lines let go on the hwy, please help!!!!

What a nightmare!!!! I was driving moments ago when omne of my lines to my engine oil cooler just popped off! I recieved a sudden oil light and I began to hear my engine knock thereafter. The oil light stayed on. I immediately pulled over to a safe area on the side of the road, and shut the motor off. Originally I had been using M1-hm 10w-40 motor oil, so much for an oil analysis. Anyways, I had extra oil in the hatch back for one of my other cars, it was m1 hm 10w-30. I installed a new filter (had extra purolator premium plus oil filter too) fixed the line, and re-filled with oil, about 4 1/2 qts or so. I then restarted, the engine started knocking! It began to smooth out about 2-3 minutes later. It was my hope that the "drumstick tapping noise " would go away, but to no avail ! I then was able to drive the car back home, about 20 miles. The oil light had remained off the whole time since the refill. Upon getting it home in my driveway, it seem to run a little bit better, however, one could still hear this stick tapping, slight rattling within the front and or side of the engine compartment? I was thinking a rod/lifter may have been damaged or something? The sound is more pronounced when the car is in gear, and less pronounced when in park/neutral. But it is concerning and very annoying, especially when the car ran super quiet. I was able to maintain a good speed upon returning home, and the turbo seemed to still have boost on demand, but the tapping could be heard slightly under acceleration. I am disappointed because I really enjoy this car, but now this mishap could have possibly caused severe engine damage? Again, the oil light hasn't illuminated since this debacle took place, it just comes on upon start up and goes away, immediately thereafter. Did the engine get severely damaged, or is this something that may be repairable, within reason? If I need another engine, I don't quite have the time until maybe the summer, what say you? Or would it be feasible to just go out a get another similar model. Is the engine removal install basic or are there PITA obstacles to watch out for. I have pulled much larger motors/transmissions before, but what are the basics for this 900 turbo motor? It looks pretty straight forward? Overall the car is in good shape, the paint is decent too! Any and or all suggestions, experiences would be greatly appreciated ! Thanks in advance.

1991 900 turbo 2.0 16 valve A.T. NEARLY 180,000 original miles (engine tapping noise) !
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  #2  
Old 31st January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 91900turbo
What a nightmare!!!! I was driving moments ago when omne of my lines to my engine oil cooler just popped off!
Oook.

Quote:
I recieved a sudden oil light and I began to hear my engine knock thereafter. The oil light stayed on. I immediately pulled over to a safe area on the side of the road, and shut the motor off.
Too late, I fear. You'd have been better immediately into neutral and switching the engine off - then coast in.

Quote:
I am disappointed because I really enjoy this car, but now this mishap could have possibly caused severe engine damage? Again, the oil light hasn't illuminated since this debacle took place, it just comes on upon start up and goes away, immediately thereafter. Did the engine get severely damaged, or is this something that may be repairable, within reason?
My guess would be one of the big ends picked up. Sorry.

The light went off once you refilled because you've now got oil pressure again, but the damage is already done. The noise MAY diminish, but it ain't going to go away.

Rebuild engine, replace engine or replace car - your call. But one of the three is required sooner or later.
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  #3  
Old 31st January 2008
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Yep, sounds like a big end failure due to oil starvation, bottom end rebuild required IMO.


Sorry chum.
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Other pieces of your car could fall off, if not bolted on.
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  #4  
Old 31st January 2008
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Sorry to hear this. Its not going to cost you a lot to fix this in monetary terms, just time. If its the big end, the bearings are not very expensive, you'll need to bring the crank to a machine shop to get it polished or ground, but that won't be too expensive either. I'd get a second opinion before tearing it apart though.
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  #5  
Old 31st January 2008
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Sorry to hear about that. If the remaining ticking is coming from the top end, it could be that air is trapped in the oil system in the head. Bentley shows a prcedure to "burp" it , but i dont remember it off the top of my head (no pun intended), the only 16v engines ive done head work on so-far had the old oil system.

Found it, bently 16v manual 214-3
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  #6  
Old 31st January 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grif900
Sorry to hear about that. If the remaining ticking is coming from the top end, it could be that air is trapped in the oil system in the head. Bentley shows a prcedure to "burp" it , but i dont remember it off the top of my head (no pun intended), the only 16v engines ive done head work on so-far had the old oil system.
Rocker cover off, loosen the black (oil-feed) bolt to one cam cap, start and idle until oil comes through, tighten. rocker cover on.

I didn't have to do that after having the head removed and stripped for the HG t'other week, so I really don't see it as necessary for this. One of my rockers was a little noisy for the first ten minutes or so, but soon quietened down once everything was up to temp.
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  #7  
Old 31st January 2008
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Often, air does not get trapped there, but sometimes it does. Best to explore all options before pulling the engine.
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  #8  
Old 31st January 2008
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Is the tapping definitely coming from the head? I'd be tempted to try bleeding it per the instructions given above if only to check if there is oil circulating around the top of the engine. If it's only a slight tapping I wouldn't worry too much.

To put it into perspective, my brother in law drove his 9-5 2.0t from last Wednesday until Sunday afternoon with the 'low oil level' light illuminated, until I explained that it is actually the oil pressure light. To cut a long story short, he has spun a big end bearing after driving 250 miles with no oil pressure...
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  #9  
Old 2nd February 2008
91900turbo 91900turbo is offline
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The tapping appears to be coming from the head? I will recheck it again. The tapping is also very pronouced, and it only gets quieter after running for a bit. However it could still be heard. Is there still minimal damage? Bleeding, please explain. I really like the car and I am seriously thinking of putting in another engine. I have pulled motors of much larger calipers, but what are the fyi gremlins with the 900 turbo? Thanks in advance!
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuclear_jimbo
Is the tapping definitely coming from the head? I'd be tempted to try bleeding it per the instructions given above if only to check if there is oil circulating around the top of the engine. If it's only a slight tapping I wouldn't worry too much.

To put it into perspective, my brother in law drove his 9-5 2.0t from last Wednesday until Sunday afternoon with the 'low oil level' light illuminated, until I explained that it is actually the oil pressure light. To cut a long story short, he has spun a big end bearing after driving 250 miles with no oil pressure...
Is that good news? Please elaborate ! Thanks !
Quote:
Originally Posted by grif900
Often, air does not get trapped there, but sometimes it does. Best to explore all options before pulling the engine.
Does this mean that my engine has another chance at life or what ? I will loosen the cover and check the rocker etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMany2cvs
Rocker cover off, loosen the black (oil-feed) bolt to one cam cap, start and idle until oil comes through, tighten. rocker cover on.

I didn't have to do that after having the head removed and stripped for the HG t'other week, so I really don't see it as necessary for this. One of my rockers was a little noisy for the first ten minutes or so, but soon quietened down once everything was up to temp.
I have a Bentley Saab manual, I will look into it, thanks!

While I was driving the car back home, the engine still seemed to be quite robust and strong, with exception to the tapping noises? My oil pressure remained normal, and my engine didn't knock, it just taps and taps!!!

Last edited by Matthew; 6th February 2008 at 03:46 AM. Reason: Use the edit button instead of rattling off six consecutive replies
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  #10  
Old 2nd February 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMany2cvs
Rocker cover off, loosen the black (oil-feed) bolt to one cam cap, start and idle until oil comes through, tighten. rocker cover on.
I belive you loosen the black bolt on intake cam cap #5. How far has the car been driven since the hose came off?
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  #11  
Old 2nd February 2008
91900turbo 91900turbo is offline
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So you think that trapped air maybe my ultimate problem regarding the tapping? Would such an instance cause this tapping? Again its not a loud knocking and or rocking sound, but just a tapping sound, sort of like drumsticks, thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by grif900
Often, air does not get trapped there, but sometimes it does. Best to explore all options before pulling the engine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by grif900
I belive you loosen the black bolt on intake cam cap #5. How far has the car been driven since the hose came off?
Thanks, I hope I can remedy this debacle without removing the engine ?

I checked again, and it is definitely coming from the top of the motor. It seems to be most audible from the underneath the valve cover towards the head. Again, it is a semi heavy metallic rap and or tapping moderate knocking sound/heavy pinging. Overall, the engine still runs very smooth (no lifter noises etc). The tapping kicks in and out, once the car is placed into gear, it is more becomes much more obvious. It is louder upon startup, however, once the engine fully warms up, it sort of simmers down a bit? I found no oil to be leaking from underneath and or from the sides of the block and or upper portions of the motor. I really don't want to part with this car, even for the sake of getting another one. I haven't had a chance to conduct the air purging procedure, which I would be delighted if it remedied this issue. Again, from further observation, I noticed the noise to fade in and out at idle, while the engine ran extremely smooth overall ! Its like the engine noise wants to correct itself or something, in addition to sounding like a case of very bad gas/low octane? Thanks in advance ! Member, Jim Mesthene I would like to get your take on this matter, thanks !

Last edited by Matthew; 6th February 2008 at 03:47 AM. Reason: See comment above
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  #12  
Old 2nd February 2008
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I can't hear it myself, so it's very hard to say. Trapped air should be gone by now but, dont give up hope on bleeding the oil system in the head. You may have a noisy lifter. The dry timing chain may have sawn through the chain guide in the valve cover. Maybe all of the chain guides were damaged (check chain tensioner portrusion) enough to make some noise now. you won't know until you/or someone more knowlegable digs in and has a good look. In all probability the car is ok to drive with a slight ticking from the top end and the engine does not have to come out. Calm down, and take it one step at a time.
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Old 2nd February 2008
91900turbo 91900turbo is offline
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I am calm, and your right one step at a time . I did notice some air bubbles on the oil dipstick today, after I let it run for about 10 minutes. I will look into the timing chain tensioner too, thanks !
Quote:
Originally Posted by grif900
I can't hear it myself, so it's very hard to say. Trapped air should be gone by now but, dont give up hope on bleeding the oil system in the head. You may have a noisy lifter. The dry timing chain may have sawn through the chain guide in the valve cover. Maybe all of the chain guides were damaged (check chain tensioner portrusion) enough to make some noise now. you won't know until you/or someone more knowlegable digs in and has a good look. In all probability the car is ok to drive with a slight ticking from the top end and the engine does not have to come out. Calm down, and take it one step at a time.
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  #14  
Old 3rd February 2008
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im curious how the oil cooler line came off to begin with...
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Old 3rd February 2008
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Is the oil pump self priming? In the 8v rebuild procedures (I know, solid lifters), the only priming reqiured is that of the pump. Also, just because the oil pressure light is not illuminated does not mean there is sufficient oil pressure! The required pressure is somewhere arround 4 bar, but the switch closes at a fraction of a bar. Take off the oil filter, empty it of oil and refit. If it fills with oil again then the pump must be primed.

Also, if the noise leaves after the engine gets hot, would that suggest that there is no air block in head? (I know, the same would apply to the pump priming)

Maybe the lifters got scored when they ran dry and are taking longer to build up pressure after startup (waiting for the oil viscosity to change)?

How is the noise affected by engine speed?
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Old 3rd February 2008
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Thanks, Actually, the engine speed hasn't changed. The car really moves! The acceleration is very robust and stout. The noisey upon startup, and once the car warms up, it is still noticeable, but not as noisey. It sort of fades in and out, from somewhat noisey to a faint tapping sound. The engine is not knocking in a sense that the whole car is shaking (NO STALLING OR ANYTHING), its just a moderate metallic light knock to moderate rod/drumstick tapping sound just under the valve cover. The noise continues even after the engine has warmed up. And I have noticed some small air bubbles on the oil dipstick ? But overall the engine still functions well, with exception to the tapping sounds. I had m-1 10-40 hm oil in before the mishap. It now has M-1 10W-30 HM oil in it now. I shall try the oil filter suggestion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9008v
Is the oil pump self priming? In the 8v rebuild procedures (I know, solid lifters), the only priming reqiured is that of the pump. Also, just because the oil pressure light is not illuminated does not mean there is sufficient oil pressure! The required pressure is somewhere arround 4 bar, but the switch closes at a fraction of a bar. Take off the oil filter, empty it of oil and refit. If it fills with oil again then the pump must be primed.

Also, if the noise leaves after the engine gets hot, would that suggest that there is no air block in head? (I know, the same would apply to the pump priming)

Maybe the lifters got scored when they ran dry and are taking longer to build up pressure after startup (waiting for the oil viscosity to change)?

How is the noise affected by engine speed?
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  #17  
Old 3rd February 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 9008v
Is the oil pump self priming? In the 8v rebuild procedures (I know, solid lifters), the only priming reqiured is that of the pump. Also, just because the oil pressure light is not illuminated does not mean there is sufficient oil pressure! The required pressure is somewhere arround 4 bar, but the switch closes at a fraction of a bar. Take off the oil filter, empty it of oil and refit. If it fills with oil again then the pump must be primed.
If the pump needed priming, there'd be no pressure whatsoever. If it's sucking oil up, then there'll be full pressure unless there's something actually wrong with the pump or the pressure's being lost somewhere in the system.
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  #18  
Old 4th February 2008
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Of course the engine functions well, apart from the tapping noise. A faulty tappet or bearing isn't necessarily going to make the slightest difference to the cars performance, until it decides to stop working completely. You say theres a tapping noise, right under the valve cover, but you say there is "no lifter noise". How can you be sure? The top end of the engine was the first part to be starved of oil.
You need to start eliminating possibilities, describing the problems the car doesn't have probably won't do this. To bleed the air from the camshaft lubrication system, you need to only remove the valve cover. If that doesn't help, you could use a stethoscope to try and identify a faulty lifter..
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  #19  
Old 4th February 2008
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they sell these really handy stethescopes for working on engines that have a long rod as a 'microphone'. you can stick them pretty much anywhere with great luck
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  #20  
Old 4th February 2008
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Or try a long-bladed screwdriver - hold the handle end against your ear and put the other end in contact with whatever you want to listen to. Works great on fuel injectors too, just don't put it in contact with something moving...
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