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  #1  
Old 12th December 2007
nitrousmc nitrousmc is offline
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Default HELP HELP HELP MISFIRE ISSUES 06 93 Aero

Newbie here!!! I came here to see if others were having the same problems as well. I have a 06 93 Aero and started having this same type of problem at about 6,000 miles now at 20K it still does it.

This is not NORMAL people!!! I have taken my car in 10+ times to 2 different Saab dealerships. They have pretty much done everything possible execpt replace the engine. They always put the blame on me...are you sure you are putting the right octane in? One service manager even told me "it's made from jets...does'nt mean you have to drive it like one." I'm am furious. This is by far the WORST car I have ever owned. This is my wifes car and we have a 4 month old baby in which she will NOT drive this car anymore it scares her so badly. At any speeds primarly between 50-70 mph if you give it about 1/4 throttle it "misfires" or "bumps" very badly as if the neighborhood cat was unable to get out in time before you start it up in the morning!! (sorry for the visual; but I have to add a little humor to keep my sanity!!!!)

I am in Houston and if you ever been to Houston or live here you know if you can't keep up with traffic you WILL get run smoooooooth over. I recently filed a "Texas Lemon Law" complaint and just got the verdict last Thursday. It was not in my favor b/c the judge said during the test drive (which the problem did duplicate itself) he wrote: "the complained of matter was felt enough time so that I was able to understand the nature of his concern." and goes on to say that it is not a "misfire" it is a "transmission" problem and that since I did not file the complaint and I have never taken the vehicle in for "transmission repair" I did not prove my case. Well, I am filing the appeal b/c the judge is not a mechanic (nor am I) but he is diagnosing it as "transmission". But you think that after 10+ visits to the dealership, the techs duplicating the problem and acknowledging the problem, and telling me they don't know what it is, if it was the transmission....THEY WOULD HAVE FIXED IT!!!! I have had spark plugs replaced twice, new manifold X3, blown turbo hoses, blown overflow tank, replaced Throttle Body, upgraded computer X4, two blown headlights, blown A/C sensor, and they have the car right now...DEAD BATTERY!!!! 20K miles and a dead battery...give me a break.

I am at ends people. We bought this car BRAND NEW off the truck when it pulled up in Dec. 2005 from Sewell Saab in Grapevine. The GM rep at the hearing even acknowledge the issue. He wants me to settle for 2 months payments in lieu of "releasing GM, SAAB, and all affiliates of all responsibility." Are you crazy...to me this is guilt from them...they know they can't fix it and they know as well it SERIOUSLY impairs the safety and performance of the vehicle. I asked the GM rep to settle for "trade-in" assistance and to give me full pay-off for the car for something new...no...2 months payments...WTF???

Sorry to vent...anyone else having this problem/experience? I have owned many GM cars/trucks...400 rwhp Firehawk, Camaro SS, and most recently CTS-V w/ 580 rwhp and have NEVER had any problems like these. GM has always taken care of me w/ these vehicles...even with them being highly modified. Now they want to give me a cold shoulder...I added it up...in 12 years I have had 8 GM vehicles totaling well over 200K in sales to GM. So, I guess I'm not important to them? This is the end of the road for me with GM...I guess I will have to buy EURO or Toyota cause Ford is never in my picture. SAAB is really giving GM a BAD name. Built from jets, uh...these the same jets in Roswell, NM at the jet/airplane grave yard?????

Just got off the phone with Service Manager...turbo is rusted...it will cost me $900.00.........WHAT..........it's under WARRANTY!!! "Oh yeah, um, okay, we'll take care of that" I have seen monkeys work better than this. Then he asked if I could take it to Dallas b/c the dealerships there are more experienced!!! This is UNREAL!!!!!

Any feedback and/or comments please...if I don't respond I have shot myself for fear of dealing with these people it will one day make me retarded.
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  #2  
Old 12th December 2007
brianl703 brianl703 is offline
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Is the check engine light blinking while this jerking/hesitation is going on?
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  #3  
Old 12th December 2007
nitrousmc nitrousmc is offline
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NO, no codes ever...execpt for low wiper fluid, over-heating when the over-flow tank blew, etc. But no engine codes. That's part of the problem...

dealership..."sir, we did not detect any codes so, we, um...don't know what the problem is."

sorry forgot to mention that...
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Old 12th December 2007
SaabLazer93 SaabLazer93 is offline
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Welcome to owning a saab. I hope you find the solution.
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  #5  
Old 12th December 2007
brianl703 brianl703 is offline
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I wonder if it could be a bad accelerator pedal position sensor?

Does changing the gear that the car is in make any difference? (Taking it out of overdrive, etc?)

The problem clears up if you give it more throttle? (If so, that probably is not a misfire, as they tend to get worse as you give it more gas).
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Old 12th December 2007
nitrousmc nitrousmc is offline
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If I hold the throttle at that position it will do it consistantly but, I gotta slow down sooner or later. If I back off or give more it seems to clear up. When they replaced the plugs the tech did show me the plugs and they were very fouled...I mean they had oil dripping from them. And I KNOW this ain't good!! But he said the cyclinders hold compression and when they replaced the manifold..."everything looks normal"

Sorry I left some details out of my first post...I got off on a rant...but thanks for the help...keep it comming.
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  #7  
Old 12th December 2007
brianl703 brianl703 is offline
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If the valve stem oil seals were leaking the compression would still be good but that could account for the oil on the sparkplugs. How's the oil consumption? Do you notice the level dropping? If you haven't checked, it would probably be a good idea to start now. Keep a record of the amount of oil you need to add to the engine between oil changes.
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Old 12th December 2007
brianl703 brianl703 is offline
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Incidentally a graph of the throttle position while the engine is acting up would be very interesting to see. As you know these cars are drive-by-wire.
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  #9  
Old 12th December 2007
nitrousmc nitrousmc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianl703
Incidentally a graph of the throttle position while the engine is acting up would be very interesting to see. As you know these cars are drive-by-wire.

not really understanding what you are talking about here....
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  #10  
Old 13th December 2007
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yspaik yspaik is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brianl703
If the valve stem oil seals were leaking the compression would still be good but that could account for the oil on the sparkplugs. How's the oil consumption? Do you notice the level dropping? If you haven't checked, it would probably be a good idea to start now. Keep a record of the amount of oil you need to add to the engine between oil changes.
Would there be any other physical signs of a valve stem oil seal leak? Just decreasing oil levels and fouled spark plugs?

I get some bogging when i accelerate also, but no decrease in turbo pressure, so i eliminated the vacuum leak as a cause.
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  #11  
Old 13th December 2007
brianl703 brianl703 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitrousmc
not really understanding what you are talking about here....
The car has certain diagnostic values available through the OBD-II port under the dash. These can be graphed with the appropriate tool. One of these is the throttle position sensor reading, which tells you how far open the throttle is.

Since the car is drive-by-wire it does not have a traditional mechanical throttle cable. It instead has an electromechanical device which opens and closes the throttle according to input from the accelerator position sensor.

Graphing the throttle position sensor reading along with the the accelerator position sensor reading should show a close correlation between the two, along with a steady reading for both if the accelerator pedal is held steady. If this is not the case, then there is a problem with either the accelerator pedal position sensor or the throttle actuator.
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  #12  
Old 13th December 2007
brianl703 brianl703 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yspaik
Would there be any other physical signs of a valve stem oil seal leak? Just decreasing oil levels and fouled spark plugs?

I get some bogging when i accelerate also, but no decrease in turbo pressure, so i eliminated the vacuum leak as a cause.
I would expect you may see some smoke out of the tailpipe. Steam is normal (particularly on a cold day), and dissipates quickly. Oil burning smoke (1) stinks and (2) lingers.

Another source of oil is the turbo itself, it is possible that it is leaking oil into the intake manifold. I think you would see traces of oil in the duct that connects to the throttle body if this were the case.
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  #13  
Old 13th December 2007
Cosmicflash Cosmicflash is offline
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You have got to be kidding

This doesn't make much sense. How did you now just come across this board?

With this many problems Saab should have had a factory service tech in the loop coordinating things and taking charge. Where is that person? He certainly would have got involved before the lemon law suit

Without addressing all of your multiple bizzare scenarios, have they replaced the full ECU and repositioned it off of the engine? I see you read my thread as well.
Have they hooked up the Tech II in your car for a while when the missing was going on to get a data log? Not sure of the extent the Bosch ECU can log but the T8 has quite the capability I believe.

And why would the judge even ride in your car when the whole issue supposedly has been documented? As you said GM wanting to "settle" with 2 months is basically admitting guilt???

And a small point, Saabs are EURO just as Jags, Land Rovers, and Volvo's are...
Don't think you'd do much better with BMW, MB, or Toyota. You can find similar cases to yours all over the internet these days.

Are you having a lawyer help you out here? If not get one quick
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Last edited by Cosmicflash; 13th December 2007 at 12:59 AM.
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Old 13th December 2007
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Vector-SS Vector-SS is offline
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I agree with Cosmic. This is not acceptable. Hire a lawyer and appeal your case. You shouldn't settle for anything less.
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  #15  
Old 13th December 2007
brianl703 brianl703 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmicflash
Have they hooked up the Tech II in your car for a while when the missing was going on to get a data log? Not sure of the extent the Bosch ECU can log but the T8 has quite the capability I believe.
Even my generic CANbus scantool can log quite a bit of useful data from the T8. I'd expect the Bosch ECU to be similar. There are, of course, manufacturer specific data items that my CANbus scantool can't access that TechII can. But even the generic CANbus data items are fairly comprehensive.
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  #16  
Old 13th December 2007
ctrlz ctrlz is offline
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It sounds like you have already decided you don't want the car. Your dealer does not seem very competent, which is potentially the biggest problem. A car with problems can most often be fixed, an incompetent dealer cannot. My dealership experience mirrors yours quite closely. They are lousy at anything technical and are the reason I am unlikely to buy another Saab.

I don't know about getting the lawyer. Lawyers will want to get paid too. You have to look at what GM is offering you. I'm sure that "2 months of payments" number was picked because it will be cheaper than getting a lawyer to take your case.

I would suggest finding a way to get your car to the Dallas dealer and maybe get your Houston dealer to put you in a loaner for a few days. Maybe they can truck your car to Dallas to save you the trip. Since they are telling you the Dallas dealer is more competent, I would thank them for their honesty and ask them to help get the car there, since it is THEIR IDEA.

Based on my own experience and what I have read here, it seems many Saab service departments are overwhelmed by this car. It's like taking your computer to a bunch of guys who used to fix electric typewriters. Not all are like this, but I have seen it with my own eyes locally.

I agree with brianl703. I really think the service dept should have driven your car around with a Tech2 hooked up and logged some data. Yes, you can do this yourself. But if your dealer is already that ignorant they are unlikely to trust your diagnosis even if it's 100% brilliant and correct.

Last edited by ctrlz; 13th December 2007 at 11:37 AM.
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  #17  
Old 13th December 2007
ctrlz ctrlz is offline
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Back up for a sec...

Noting your previous 500 hp cars, have you done any modifications to your new Saab?
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  #18  
Old 13th December 2007
brianl703 brianl703 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctrlz
My dealership experience mirrors yours quite closely. They are lousy at anything technical and are the reason I am unlikely to buy another Saab.
I've had this issue with Ford. As I like to say about the local Ford dealer, if it isn't available with 4WD they don't know how to work on it nor do they stock parts for it. (Actually I've never owned a 4WD Ford vehicle so it's entirely possible that they don't know how to work on anything or stock parts for anything. I'm just going under the assumption they have to be good at SOMETHING).

From what I have seen, this is a common problem anywhere you go. I blame the computer industry..if you're actually good at troubleshooting why oh why would you spin wrenches and lift heavy things for 8 hours a day when you could get an office job troubleshooting computers?
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  #19  
Old 13th December 2007
fishhyren11 fishhyren11 is offline
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Is the feeling like "bucking"?
Does it kind of feel like you're on a rough road even though it's smooth?

I've suspected bucking a few times at ~ 1/8- 1/4 throttle at low speed/gear (like 30 in 3rd)....
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  #20  
Old 14th December 2007
nitrousmc nitrousmc is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yspaik
Would there be any other physical signs of a valve stem oil seal leak? Just decreasing oil levels and fouled spark plugs?

I get some bogging when i accelerate also, but no decrease in turbo pressure, so i eliminated the vacuum leak as a cause.
When it happens to me; I have not noticed any drop or "lag" in the turbo either.
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