SaabCentral Forums banner
Cancel
Create thread New Garage Forums

DIY, SAI Valve Check and Replacement, (with pics!)

Jump to Latest
96K views 64 replies 36 participants last post by  9-3 Aero 05'  
#1 · (Edited)
Disclaimer: I will in no way be responsable for any work done on your car. This is a guidance, and all work should be performed at your own risk.

Well, I would like to make everyones life a little easier. All the work I am going to do on my car (90% mainttenance) I will post here as a easy DIY with pics. This should save people TONS of money by doing the projects themselves. Here goes the first one....

Why: These valves are known to go bad on MY2003, causeing the SAI pump to fail ($900 replacement). By simply checking this valve and replacing as neccessary, we can stop being bent over by the dealership.

Difficulty: Simple

Time: 20mins

Tools: 10mm socket, or open end wrench

Start by popping the hood and finding the valve, its right to the left of the battery:
Image


Now see the plastic ring on the end, on the 12 and 6 o'clock position squeeze it, the ring will deform and you can pull the hose towards you. The hole that just opened up, stick your pinky in there. Is it clean? Is there soot? You will probably need a new valve if there is soot. Check this link to see.
http://www.msi-motor-service.com/ximages/PG_SI_0083_EN_WEB.pdf

If there is soot, keep reading, if not, put it back together...
Image


Now grab your 10mm wrench and take off the two bolts on the bottom holding it on. Take a look at this picture and you can see where one is, the other is directly towards you. Don't drop them!
Image


Once you have the valve off, take a look at the bottom of it. There is a green (mine was) paper gasket. When you replace the valve, its a good idea to replace that gasket.
Image


Image


Istallation is the opposite of removing. You may want to put a little bit of silicon O-ring lube on the o-ring before you reinstall to make it easier to take off next time. Once i find the P/N and sources, i will update this thread

Good luck!
 
#6 · (Edited)
ctrlz said:
Was it dirty on the other side?
Click to expand...
I took off the end with the hose, and stuck my pinky in it. Perfectly clean, no soot. I thought that would be OK, untill i took it apart and saw the bottom of it. If i remember checking the PDF in the sticky, it says the valve needs to be checked from the bottom.

Do you think it is still good? I am just going by the little info i have read on here, but i would like to update the DIY accordingly

OK, dug in and found more info, this is the link i was looking for!
http://www.msi-motor-service.com/ximages/PG_SI_0083_EN_WEB.pdf

This shows how to check it, you only have to replace it if there is soot on the end that the tube comes off. Check above for updated DIY!
 
C
#11 ·
It's a Pierburg valve. I posted the numbers stamped on the valve in one of the SAI threads linked in the FAQ. Should be a simple matter to compare any part numbers. The Pierburg numbers are stamped on the top and easy to read. Saab has different internal numbers unrelated to what's stamped on the valve.

Nimisys told me a lot of these valves are very similar. Probably has to do with the pressure produced by the SAI pump. So maybe they (Pierburg) make valves in our shape in 10 psi cracking pressure increments, all with different numbers. Just different springs inside to give the different cracking pressures.
 
#13 ·
Stage1 said:
Great post but where is this part on the 04 model? I don't see it. Thanks.
Click to expand...

at 1st post it says under the hood.....not the car's hood....engine's hood:cool:

same area u have to access when u want to check the spark plugs:)

to open the engine protective hood u will have to unscrew 2 10mm star-shaped bolts if i remember correctly.

DO NOT TRY TO UNSCREW WHEN ENGINE IS HOT.........U LL NEVER GET THEM OUT DUE TO METAL DILATION.:nono;
most possible scenario is to damage the star shaped corners and then bye bye unscrewing again


try it only after a 2-3 hours stop at minimum
 
S
#15 ·
greekfragma said:
at 1st post it says under the hood.....not the car's hood....engine's hood:cool:

same area u have to access when u want to check the spark plugs:)

to open the engine protective hood u will have to unscrew 2 10mm star-shaped bolts if i remember correctly.

DO NOT TRY TO UNSCREW WHEN ENGINE IS HOT.........U LL NEVER GET THEM OUT DUE TO METAL DILATION.:nono;
most possible scenario is to damage the star shaped corners and then bye bye unscrewing again


try it only after a 2-3 hours stop at minimum
Click to expand...
Thanks but where he is pointing to is not under the engine protective hood. In another thread on SAI a member said it was removed from the 2004 model as a correction but I will look under the EP hood to verify.
 
#16 ·
Excellent write up. Thanks.

I'm just wondering though let's say there is soot in it, so you suggest we change the valve which cost approximately $85. If this is changed, how can this prevent whatever is getting damaged for it to cost $900. I'm a bit confused :confused:

What else gets damaged for the delear to charge $900, and when do you know that you NEED to change the whole thing ($900 thing - whatever that is).
 
#17 ·
Vector-SS said:
Excellent write up. Thanks.

I'm just wondering though let's say there is soot in it, so you suggest we change the valve which cost approximately $85. If this is changed, how can this prevent whatever is getting damaged for it to cost $900. I'm a bit confused :confused:

What else gets damaged for the delear to charge $900, and when do you know that you NEED to change the whole thing ($900 thing - whatever that is).
Click to expand...
I'm not sure if you can prevent it. What cost so much to replace is the SAI pump. When the valve fails, condensation and water build up in the pump, causing the pump to fail. Thats when you need to bite the bullet and get it fixed. By staying on top of this valve, and making sure it doesn't fail, you save yourself the headach of changing the entire pump. Search SAI valve/ pump on here, and you'll end up checking this valve everytime you change your oil!

You will NEED to change the who thing when the check engine light comes on with code P0411. If that happens, it could be too late, but some people have succesfully dried out the pump and changed the valve with no further issues.

As far as 2004 models are concerned, i believe this was ONLY an issue in 2003.

Heres some info:
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93085
 
C
#18 · (Edited)
Vector-SS said:
If this is changed, how can this prevent whatever is getting damaged for it to cost $900. I'm a bit confused :confused:
Click to expand...
A check valve allows flow in one direction only. In this case air pumped by the SAI pump is injected into the exhaust stream during cold start. Should you accelerate during cold start, exhaust pressure will increase and close the valve.

The SAI pump runs for about 90 seconds during cold start. The ECM adds extra fuel while the pump is running. The idea is fuel will continue to burn in the exhaust manifold (with extra air provide by the pump) and the catalytic converter will heat up faster.

The check valve is there to prevent exhaust from entering the SAI system. The main problem is water, which is abundant in exhaust. The SAI pump sits low in front of the engine and water from exhaust will quickly collect in the pump eventually clogging it and ruining the motor. The pump is expensive and hard to get to. You have to remove the starter and some other parts to replace the pump, which adds time and cost.

You inspect your check valve so you can replace it before you ruin your pump. If your pump is bad, you will need to replace both the pump and the valve.

As I mentioned above this is probably something that should be replaced on a schedule, maybe every 5 years. My thinking is it's better to replace the valve before it goes bad. No question it's constantly exposed to grimey, corrosive exhaust, so only a matter of time before it fails. It's also incredibly easy to access and change. Two bolts and a gasket. Doesn't get much easier!

So why is this only on 2003's? Possibly because Saab was not sure the 93SS would pass all emissions checks by the time it got into production. They may have been shooting for LEV or ULEV certification at some point. I don't really know.

UPDATE:
ULEV certification does require low levels of cold-start emissions:

Seventy to eighty percent of hydrocarbon emissions from automotive vehicles are emitted during this first minute, or so, of "cold start" engine operation, i.e., during this period large amounts of hydrocarbons are likely to be discharged into the atmosphere without additional measures. The problem is made worse by the fact that the engine requires rich fuel-air ratio to operate during cold-start thus, increasing even further the amount of unburned hydrocarbons discharged. Increasing the effectiveness of automotive emission control systems during cold start, so that the amount of hydrocarbons discharged into the atmosphere during cold-start are kept at extremely low levels, has become important not only from an environmental standpoint, but just as importantly, the ULEV standards require it.
 
#20 ·
Ok, so I have been reading all of this SAI stuff since I got my '06 Aero.

I know it only applies to the MY2003.

I just wonder if the V6 motors with the dual SAI valves are going to have an issue. I cannot recall reading a single issue yet, but I wonder if it is only a matter of time. I don't want to be the first. Does anyone know if the configuration of the system on the V6 is so much different that this issue will not be a problem?

Maybe I should just check my valves next time I under the Hood (the US vernacular) or bonnet to you other guys. lol
 
Save
Reply Quote Like Like
C
#21 ·
Linear9303 said:
This seems to simply be an EGR valve

1. Why not just clean it and not buy a new one?
2. It isn't necessary unless the computer goes crazy why not bypass it somehow?
Click to expand...
EGR valves recirc exhaust into the combustion chamber. SAI adds air to the exhaust stream, but only during a cold start.

You can't trick the computer because it knows when the engine is cold. Then it adds extra fuel for combustion. If that fuel does not burn it knows SAI is not working. It knows this through the O2 sensor. And it knows the precise timing of this sequence. Any deviation and you get an error.

Cleaning this valve may be possible. But exhaust soot is hard to remove without good access. The valve only runs about $75. When mine finally leaks I'll probably cut it apart and have a look. But these types of diaphragm valves aren't typically serviceable.
 
M
#24 ·
Air compressor and shop vac worked!

A note to everyone who has this problem, but has to wait to get a new valve.
Had the p0411 code and checked everything many of you have listed.
I checked the tube from the air filter box to see if I had any suction (seeing if the pump was working at all) and I did. It wasn't much, but it was a start. I checked the valve and BOY was it dirty. I cleaned the valve out as much as i could and then removed every hose except the one leading from the valve to the pump itself. (I couldn't get the dang thing off to save my life!!) I used an air compressor to spray out all the hoses as much as I could. Then I put them all back together except the one leading to the air filter box and the one attached to the valve. I hooked the shop vac up to the one that would attach to the valve and I taped the air compressor hose to the one from the filter box. Then I ran them together for 10 min or so. I then put everything back together and checked for suction again. MUCH better and my check eng light is gone! Now I know this is not a fix, but hopefully it will do okay until Wed when I get the valve! Then I will vac/spray everything again before connecting everything back.
 
C
#25 ·
mhillsaab said:
I cleaned the valve out as much as i could and then removed every hose except the one leading from the valve to the pump itself. (I couldn't get the dang thing off to save my life!!)
Click to expand...
Wonder if the heat got to it and fused the plastic to the metal. Once these start to leak the SAI tubing, which is mostly plastic, is exposed to exhaust heat.
 
#27 ·
I had the SAI valve replaced today. Thanks a lot, forum!
Car has 96K Km and the valve has never been replaced so far.

Last week by reading about the SAI saga on this forum I was alarmed. So I booked an appointment at the local saab dealer for valve replacement. The funny thing is that at the dealership they were all questioning me about this change. They kept saying that if there is no CEL then nothing has to be done on the car. And I was gently explaining them that when a CEL is thrown then it is too late to save that expensive/costly pump! Finally, they accepted to change the valve and as the mechanic explained to me the valve was almost at its operational limit. It had to be replaced urgently. So I (i.e. the forum) was proved right!

Pump+gasket cost: 85 euro
Labor cost: 15 euro

The mechanic also checked the pump operation through TechII.
TechII has an option to operate the pump any time at will.
The pump was running OK at full speed with no problem.

So we just saved the $$$ pump!
 
SaabCentral Forums
posts
3.1M
members
127K
Since
2001
SaabCentral forum the most comprehensive Saab resource on the internet. Join our discussions on the Saab 9-3, Saab 9-5, Saab 900, Saab 9000 and all other Saab models, choose your forum.
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
9-3 Sedan, Cabrio '04+, Combi, 9-3X Workshop NG900 & OG9-3 Workshop 9-5 Workshop C900 Workshop NG900 & OG9-3 Performance, Mods & Tuning