Secret Monitoring Black Boxes in Saabs?

[tmg19103]

Interesting article. Basically on how the "black boxes" in cars these days can record speed, brake use, accelerator depression, seat-belt use, air-bag deployment - and the number of collisions in a crash, since one accident may involve multiple impacts.

I understand that this info can be used for good, but I am also big on civil liberties and privacy rights. I am a safe driver, but accidents happen and I prefer to protect my rights as much as possible.

Do Saabs have these devices in the U.S., and if so, starting what year/model? If so, is there a way to deactivate them without rendering the car inoperable?

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/home_..._it_tells.html

[DanF.]

I thought just about all new cars had them now (newfangled computer packed techno-wonders they are now)

Also I was told by whomever (reliable right?) that they have a very short memory and only record up to 20 seconds or so prior to any accident. Just think how big the HD would be if it had to store all your info.

[Cliche`]

OnStar monitors stuff. One of my dad's customers was driving his new Vette and got a call from OnStar telling him to slow down before they informed GM and voided his warranty. That'd be a little creepy.

[jglavin]

Originally Posted by Cliche`

OnStar monitors stuff. One of my dad's customers was driving his new Vette and got a call from OnStar telling him to slow down before they informed GM and voided his warranty. That'd be a little creepy.

That is creepy... is onStar still an option or have they made it mandatory? My dad bought a Chevy Pickup truck in '03 and was able to get one without it. Not just without the service- no antenna, no buttons in the mirror. For him, it would've been a dealbreaker.

[tmg19103]

Originally Posted by Cliche`

OnStar monitors stuff. One of my dad's customers was driving his new Vette and got a call from OnStar telling him to slow down before they informed GM and voided his warranty. That'd be a little creepy.

I have OnStar on my '03 9-5 Aero I bought used, but I assume it is not communicating with G.M. since I am not currently paying to use the service.

My concern is if OnStar or some other "black box" is recording my driving info, and if so, how do I get rid of it?

As an example, say I like to drive fast. What if this black box has a history of me exceeding 70 mph on the highway. Yes, this is illegal in my sate, but if I did it on wide open highways I don't consider it too dangerous.

Then I am in an accident where it is a "he said she said" - I did nothing wrong and the other driver claims innocence with no witnesses. I could see this history of fast driving being used against me.

Even if this "black box" does not store info for long, I prefer to portect my rights in an accident.

Anything on whether an '03 9-5 Aero has a "black box" that records info or if OnStar does this even if not suscribed to, and if so, how to turn it off?

I figure it would be made that you could not turn it off without disabling the car, but there are always work arounds. I also wonder if there are state laws that were quietly passed that say you can't deactivate this device. For that matter, if you are in an accident the device is deactivated by you, I can see THAT being used against you.

All this is a little too much Big Brother for my taste. That's why this man has my vote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IsDlO2Lr_cg

[Cliche`]

OnStar does absolutely nothing if you're not a subscriber. They can communicate with your car, but they won't because you're not paying them for it. They won't even help you find it if it gets stolen. I mean, if you tried, I'm sure you can have them subpoenaed, but so much for helping your fellow man.

[GearHead]

if I had the money to buy a corvette and onstar called me to slow down other wise my warrenty would be voided.I would slow down.get where I am going to and cancel onstar.

[JonV]

Offstar has less communication ability with Saab than any other vehicle. It can't do the diagnostics thing nor open doors if your locked out. So I wouldn't worry about getting a phone call for speeding.

It also goes digital in a couple of months so the older analog units are dead weight.

[900t]

Originally Posted by GearHead

if I had the money to buy a corvette and onstar called me to slow down other wise my warrenty would be voided.I would slow down.get where I am going to and cancel onstar.

Just set the cruise, pull out the fuse box cover and pull the "TELEMATICS" fuse

[VikingSpirit]

Yet another reason why running an old car is great, aint no-one keeping tabs on my 99! Of course that works against me if someone decides to steal it, but most people look at my car and don't see anything worth stealing!

I do hate the whole big-brother thing, the government feels like we all have to be babysitted all the time. Nothing is ever just "an accident" anymore, we have to point the finger at someone, and really it sucks. It leads to a society with no trust or friendship, because everyone's watching there own back for fear of the legal cnsequences of their actions.

If it carries on like this, it'll get to the stage no one will give you advice because they are worried you'll sue if they're wrong, children will grow up unloved because their parents won't want to show them affection for risk of being called pedophiles and there won't be any children anyway cos people won't get close enough to wave, let alone have sex, in case someone calls rape.

Even the law gets the rough end of the stick these days, its almost impossible to arrest people or get search warrants because they can claim harrassment or racial discrimination. Which means the real thugs don't get collared and the easy criminals, such as motorists, are used to reel in the slack.

Granted this is all a worst case scenario, but its the future unless we can all learn to grow up and deal with our problems without having speaking to a therapist or a lawyer (which I have no doubt will become a combined profession before long!)

Mind you in the future lawyers won't take any clients, cos if they lose the case, they could end up being sued...

[TROLLhattenschatten]

As to the question on the info being used against you -

The whole memory only stores the last few seconds before a crash.
so unless you where speeding/driving agressive i don't see how it would be bad.

[SectorNine50]

Strange about the Corvette story, OnStar by law is not allowed to receive information from your vehicle unless you authorize it, which requires you to push a button. So basically, he would have to had called them going 160 at which time they would tell him to slow down. You'll notice that every time you ask for directions, they have to ask if it is okay for them to communicate with your car to update your car's location and speed on their computer, they can't receive live streaming information. OnStar would be getting sued up the ying yang left and right if they actually monitored people's speeds.

The car is not allowed to communicate automatically unless in an accident. If that happened to your dad's client, the guy should probably call OnStar and let them know he's aware of the law and that they better not watch his car again.

[JonV]

It can be a bit more than that, in other GM cars you can subscribe to Onstar diagnostic reports...the car reports temps, rpms, all the stuff the ECU monitors, you'll get told your CEL codes and all kinds of stuff. Obviously there will be a long term record.

[SectorNine50]

Originally Posted by JonV

It can be a bit more than that, in other GM cars you can subscribe to Onstar diagnostic reports...the car reports temps, rpms, all the stuff the ECU monitors, you'll get told your CEL codes and all kinds of stuff. Obviously there will be a long term record.

Yup, but you have to call them to get the information and they will then ask if they can access your car's information. They also do not store information on your vehicle other than the information required to locate it when necessary. There is no long-term records kept.

[TROLLhattenschatten]

Some even record G-Forces too...

[SectorNine50]

Originally Posted by JonV

Offstar has less communication ability with Saab than any other vehicle. It can't do the diagnostics thing nor open doors if your locked out. So I wouldn't worry about getting a phone call for speeding.

It also goes digital in a couple of months so the older analog units are dead weight.

Have to pay $200 to get 'em updated, older sis just did it.

Apparently the new units are much better with voice recognition and other stuff.

[JonV]

Originally Posted by SectorNine50

Yup, but you have to call them to get the information and they will then ask if they can access your car's information. They also do not store information on your vehicle other than the information required to locate it when necessary. There is no long-term records kept.

You do not have to call them, Actually you get a monthly report so you know there is at least a one month track record, you get automatic emails if something unusual occurs and if you push the Blue Button you get Diagnostics on Demand. If you doubt me, check the Onstar site. If you are a subscriber they are watching.

[JonV]

Originally Posted by SectorNine50

Have to pay $200 to get 'em updated, older sis just did it.

Apparently the new units are much better with voice recognition and other stuff.

I would rather pay 200 to have it removed.....

[900t]

Originally Posted by SectorNine50

Strange about the Corvette story, OnStar by law is not allowed to receive information from your vehicle unless you authorize it, which requires you to push a button. So basically, he would have to had called them going 160 at which time they would tell him to slow down. You'll notice that every time you ask for directions, they have to ask if it is okay for them to communicate with your car to update your car's location and speed on their computer, they can't receive live streaming information. OnStar would be getting sued up the ying yang left and right if they actually monitored people's speeds.

The car is not allowed to communicate automatically unless in an accident. If that happened to your dad's client, the guy should probably call OnStar and let them know he's aware of the law and that they better not watch his car again.

Also why would the warranty have anything to do with vehicle speed? The warranty doesn't say anything like that in writing, except maybe "does not cover racing events".

[JonV]

Originally Posted by 900t

Also why would the warranty have anything to do with vehicle speed? The warranty doesn't say anything like that in writing, except maybe "does not cover racing events".

Sounds like Urban Legend....