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  #1  
Old 19th November 2007
anarchyx34 anarchyx34 is offline
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Default Replacing fuel pump w/dropping the fuel tank. 1999 9-3

Fuel pump just went tits up on our '99 9-3. I'll be going the route of dropping the fuel tank, which scares me less than cutting a hole in the floor. I've dropped many, many fuel tanks before but it was always on a lift as I work at a shop. Unfortunately the car is way to far away from my shop otherwise I'd just do it there. Seems pretty straightforward. My only concern is how easily the fuel line fittings seem to break. What I'm worried about is when lowering the fuel pump I'll need to disconnect the fuel lines at some point before I can lower it completely down. I'll also need to do it carefully to prevent breaking them. How far can I drop the tank before it starts to put too much stress on the fuel lines and fittings? Not sure how much "slack" there is. Are you expected to access them through the tiny access port under the seat?

Oh and I also present to you this amusing morsel of swedish rivalry.
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  #2  
Old 19th November 2007
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Hopefully this will help:

9-3 / 1999 / 2. Engine / Fuel system and Air induction system Fuel tank
Adjustment and replacement
Fuel tank


Replacement of the fuel tank involves partial dismantling of the car's fuel system. The following points must therefore be observed in connection with this work:
標ork only in a well-ventilated area. If approved equipment for the extraction of fuel vapour is available, be sure to use it.
標ear suitable gloves. Prolonged contact with fuel may give rise to skin irritation or dermatitis.
必eep a class BE fire extinguisher near at hand. Be mindful of the danger of sparks caused by short-circuits and when connecting and disconnecting leads, etc. in electrical circuits.
逼o smoking anywhere in the vicinity.
To remove
1Empty the tank.
2Place the car on a lift. Make sure that the right-hand rear support is placed as far out as possible so as not to obstruct dismantling work.
3Raise the car.
4Detach the rubber hoses from the tank and plug the tank. Use special tool 83 94 777.

5Undo the clamp securing the fuel filter.

Reference : S23435
11/19/2007
Page 1 of 2
9-3 / 1999 / 2. Engine / Fuel system and Air induction system Fuel tank
Adjustment and replacement
6Support the tank by means of a pillar lift and undo the nuts for the metal straps holding the tank in place. Unhook the metal straps.
7Carefully lower the tank, right-hand side first, until the top becomes visible.
Detach the fuel lines from the clips on the tank and car body so that the lines will not be bent or broken.
8Unplug the two connectors from the fuel pump.
9Disconnect the pressure and return lines from the fuel pump.
10Lower the tank to a convenient working height.
To fit Fit in reverse order.
Tightening torque for hose clips: 2.2 Nm (1.6 lbf ft)
IMPORTANT
Inspect the O-rings when fitting the fuel lines. Fit new ones as necessary.
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  #3  
Old 19th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric in Lockport, N.Y.
Hopefully this will help:

9-3 / 1999 / 2. Engine / Fuel system and Air induction system Fuel tank
Adjustment and replacement
Fuel tank


Replacement of the fuel tank involves partial dismantling of the car's fuel system. The following points must therefore be observed in connection with this work:
標ork only in a well-ventilated area. If approved equipment for the extraction of fuel vapour is available, be sure to use it.
標ear suitable gloves. Prolonged contact with fuel may give rise to skin irritation or dermatitis.
必eep a class BE fire extinguisher near at hand. Be mindful of the danger of sparks caused by short-circuits and when connecting and disconnecting leads, etc. in electrical circuits.
逼o smoking anywhere in the vicinity.
To remove
1Empty the tank. Before doing this, take a fuel gauge reading and assure that this does not change after the operation..
2Place the car on a lift. Make sure that the right-hand rear support is placed as far out as possible so as not to obstruct dismantling work.
3Raise the car.
4Detach the rubber hoses from the tank and plug the tank. Use special tool 83 94 777.

5Undo the clamp securing the fuel filter.

Reference : S23435
11/19/2007
Page 1 of 2
9-3 / 1999 / 2. Engine / Fuel system and Air induction system Fuel tank
Adjustment and replacement
6Support the tank by means of a pillar lift and undo the nuts for the metal straps holding the tank in place. Unhook the metal straps.
7Carefully lower the tank, right-hand side first, until the top becomes visible.
Detach the fuel lines from the clips on the tank and car body so that the lines will not be bent or broken.
8Unplug the two connectors from the fuel pump.
9Disconnect the pressure and return lines from the fuel pump.
10Lower the tank to a convenient working height.
To fit Fit in reverse order.
Tightening torque for hose clips: 2.2 Nm (1.6 lbf ft)
IMPORTANT
Inspect the O-rings when fitting the fuel lines. Fit new ones as necessary.
This should make the task easier, even with the access cutting..
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...4&page=1&pp=20

I've removed, replaced the old VW tanks, with these it was just pull and do; no pre-draining, no extra ventilation, NO gloves, no helmet, no goggles, no extinguisher, smoking(but not close) was allowed,
and we never had any problems ......
I may never pull a tank from the newer cars... too much work.

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=61165
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Old 20th November 2007
anarchyx34 anarchyx34 is offline
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Well I'm not so scared to drop a fuel tank. I work at a shop and we do it all the time on brand new cars. It's not that complicated. It's just that I dont have the luxury of a lift and I'll be doing this in the street on jackstands. Might not be fun. I'm starting to warm up to the idea of cutting a hole in the floor. I'll probably be using tin-snips as I think it would do a safer, neater job. Where can I get tin-snips that will cut easily through sheet metal like this? Home depot?

Also I ordered a fuel pump from Advanced auto parts. I was like WTF? This dosent look right to me. It was about 1 inch long, 1.5 inches round, black and plastic. I took a pic of it with my phone but I'm having trouble getting the image off of it. The pump dosent look anything like what I described right? As far as I know it looks like this:



Right?
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Old 20th November 2007
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I had to replace the pump twice on my 900S. The first time, I dropped the tank. From memory, it was a simple job, probably an hour to drop and 30 minutes to reinstall. The gist of it is: Lift the car and place the back end on stands. You'll need it at least 18" in the air to get the tank out. Remove the fuel filler and lines, lower the fuel-tank straps and lower the tank. Once the tank is down, reach up above it and disconnect the fuel lines/connector. Pull the tank out from under the car, straight back, and remove the pump.

To remove the pump, I made a simple tool out of an old socket and a piece of 1/2" wide steel:


Be certain to test the pump and fuel gage before you reinstall the tank. Also, have a spare set of fuel-tank straps and hose clamps on hand before doing the job as they'll both likely be rusted to no end and will require replacement. Good luck!
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Old 20th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anarchyx34
...Right?
Correct. The original pump, at least in the NG900 is a common part made by Walbro, easily available online, and any local Napa store. Looks exactly like the pic.

I did not replace mine myself (it failed on New Years Eve, in traffic), but I was there for part of the operation. I would say you have to be really handy to do it in an hour like Radare. I think it took about 45 minutes with a lift.

You may want to take a close look at the strap ends, where they fasten. Mine were rusted and had to be cut off. Meaning, I needed a new pair of straps, and Saab did not have them in stock locally. If the car is driven in snow and salt, the strap ends end up looking like exhaust bolts and clamps.

There is no easy way to substitute a generic part unless you plan ahead. The shop used a different set of straps, and welded the ends to make them fit.
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Old 20th November 2007
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http://www.fuel-pumps.net/5ca3360.html

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=61165

This(first link) could well be it, I've only seen the older ones('78 99,'76 99) and the really old electric ones, installed in the engine compartment - very easy to change...

I admit, I'd be terrified to work out in the street, with the car on stands, cars going by at 50 mph.
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Old 20th November 2007
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I'm looking at a car right now that is about an 1.5 hours away with a bad fuel pump. The price is cheap and it looks to be in great shape. I plan on driving down, cutting a hole and replacing the fuel pump (already have + I have a spare CPS). I plan on checking that first.

Am I insane for trying/doing this?
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Old 20th November 2007
anarchyx34 anarchyx34 is offline
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I've done crazier stuff.
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Old 24th November 2007
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Ok. Changed the fuel pump. Great success! Having never cut a hole in the floor of a car before, it went rather well. The pump I picked up was indeed a Walbro pump in a Bosch box. Exact fit. Car runs nicely. Thanks for all the help.
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Old 24th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anarchyx34
Ok. Changed the fuel pump. Great success! Having never cut a hole in the floor of a car before, it went rather well. The pump I picked up was indeed a Walbro pump in a Bosch box. Exact fit. Car runs nicely. Thanks for all the help.
Great news.
Love to read this
Chalk up another for DIY , make that advanced DIY
I must cut that hole..
Even if the labor time is about the same, there is the good possisibility of broken straps, cracked elbows, and fractured necks..
For good reasons, Honda and the old Saabs use the access hole..
GM should compare the sales of these two(Honda and the GM Saabs) and figure out why ??
And this is not difficult - there are 10 to 20 reasons...
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Old 24th November 2007
anarchyx34 anarchyx34 is offline
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Funny thing is I work at a GM shop, so when I see similar designs on the Saab I'm like "noooooooo!".

It seems like GM built half the 9-3, and they half they made is all screwed up . I still love the car. I just hate working on it.
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Old 24th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anarchyx34
It seems like GM built half the 9-3, and they half they made is all screwed up .
I don't think that is entirely fair to GM.

Saab has always used parts from other car makers.

Even before the C900, one of the Saab engine designs came from British company.

The power steering system on the C900 was made mostly by Saginaw, a Michigan company and long time GM supplier. On the NG900, which was designed after GM owned 50% of Saab, they switched to a German designed steering rack for a while, made by ZF, for a few years, then back to Saginaw, which was by then owned by GM.

The NG900 has far fewer cruise control problems than some other Euro models I will not mention, and the cruise control is GM. The one part which does fail now and then is a foot pedal switch, which is made by Bosch, not GM.

The crappy crankcase vent system on the 9-3 and 9-5 was mandated by US emissions rules. Saab actually had a better design, which was controlled electrically, but it did not meet US EPA guidelines, so it had to be scrapped.

The same thing could be said about the evap emissions system. It is very expensive, hard to fix, and it does not really do much on our cars, but it has to be there. SAI pump, ditto...
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Old 24th November 2007
anarchyx34 anarchyx34 is offline
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My comment wasn't really meant to be taken seriously. I'm not exactly a big fan of GM's mainstream products, and yes Bosch electronics aren't the best. Overall I'm very impressed with Saab design. I just feel a lot of the car was somewhat compromised in the name of platform sharing and cost cutting.

Unfortunately now I'm getting a fuel odor from the top of the fuel tank. The fuel line fittings are not leaking (glad I cut that hole in the floor so I can see ). So I'm assuming I just didn't tighten down the ring enough. At least I hope that's all it is.
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Old 25th November 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anarchyx34
My comment wasn't really meant to be taken seriously. I'm not exactly a big fan of GM's mainstream products, and yes Bosch electronics aren't the best. Overall I'm very impressed with Saab design. I just feel a lot of the car was somewhat compromised in the name of platform sharing and cost cutting. This,
I feel is true; hopefully it will improve... GM can, and should learn from Saab.....It must - the Oriental competition will be fierce...I 'd love to see a joint Euro-American effort to combat emissions, with the identical standards being used..

Unfortunately now I'm getting a fuel odor from the top of the fuel tank. The fuel line fittings are not leaking (glad I cut that hole in the floor so I can see ). So I'm assuming I just didn't tighten down the ring enough. At least I hope that's all it is.
Do not over-tighten this ring. The WIS may have a torque figure and procedure for this...
I'd lubricate the sealing Oring with a little silicone paste..
Making this access was the best possible thing to do.

And the cruise control, GM probably has more experience with this than Bosch. Mine works perfectly - the one on the VW did not.
Anecdotal ? yes; scientific ? no... ..but, it is one piece of data..
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Old 25th November 2007
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I'm fairly sure I undertightened it. I still have thread showing. Judging by how tight it was coming off I should've known to snug it down more than I did. But its plastic and I was afraid of breaking it and you know how that goes. In any case I did lube everything up for easier installation.
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Old 25th November 2007
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The WIS calls for...

- a new o-ring "in the groove in the tank"

- "make sure the marks on the pump and the tank are aligned"
(this refers to the position of the float)

- Tightening torque for screw ring is 75 Nm or 55 lbf-ft

I did not replace the pump myself (it was about 15 degrees F at the time), but 55 lbf-ft seems like a lot for a plastic part, even given its size.
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