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  #1  
Old 3rd October 2007
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Default Water pump change...

It isn't as bad as it looks. Please, tell me it isn't as bad as it looks. PLEASE?

Did I mention I hate water cooled cars? I've *never* had one that hasn't given me the odd bit of grief with the cooling system. NEVER.

(Oh, and is there REALLY that big a difference between OEM and "aftermarket" pumps? SIX times the price?)
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  #2  
Old 3rd October 2007
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Nothing to it.
Don't remove the A/C compressor, just the A/C belt.
Take the pulley off the pump first, and with it, the belts will come loose.
5 or 6 bolts, then pry the pump loose, let the coolant drain into the pre-positioned drain pan.
Prop a mirror on the brake line that runs along the firewall.
Scrape the gasket (this is the most time-consuming part).
Assembly is the reverse. Start 1 bolt on the water pump pulley, slip the belts on, then force the pulley back into place (it will be obvious when you do it).
Refill, bleed if you like.

I worked with a guy who could do them (with air tools) in 17 minutes; it always took me 30 minutes. He did 4 a week. They didn't give me too many because I was so slow.
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  #3  
Old 3rd October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Mesthene
Nothing to it.
<perk>

Quote:
Refill, bleed if you like.
I'm getting good at that one, after an injection temp sensor and two coolant pipes...

Quote:
I worked with a guy who could do them (with air tools) in 17 minutes; it always took me 30 minutes. He did 4 a week. They didn't give me too many because I was so slow.
Reeeeeee-sult!

So - it's gone through about 750ml in roughly two-three weeks. I'm unlikely to be able to do it this week, and got about 300 miles to do over the weekend. Likelihood of it suddenly exploding and dumping the lot?
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  #4  
Old 4th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMany2cvs
So - it's gone through about 750ml in roughly two-three weeks. I'm unlikely to be able to do it this week, and got about 300 miles to do over the weekend. Likelihood of it suddenly exploding and dumping the lot?
Can you plan your trip so that every 100 miles or so you can stop long enough to cool down and top it up?
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  #5  
Old 4th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMany2cvs
It isn't as bad as it looks. Please, tell me it isn't as bad as it looks. PLEASE?
As Jim says, it really is a very easy job. It's the only thing I've done on the car where something daft hasn't cropped up and given me hassle. Let the new gasket soak in water for a bit and then it'll "stick" on when you're positioning the new pump. The aftermarket pump from PFS is fine.
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  #6  
Old 4th October 2007
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Isn't it there another Saab owner near you who could help?
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  #7  
Old 4th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supremedalek
Isn't it there another Saab owner near you who could help?
That's not the issue - I've got a good mate with a fully kitted workshop not far away - it's just fitting in the time & getting hold of the pump.

Quote:
Originally Posted by supremedalek
Can you plan your trip so that every 100 miles or so you can stop long enough to cool down and top it up?
It's more a question of "Will it suddenly empty the header tank at 80mph...?"

And, since it's used about a litre since yesterday evening, for 30 miles or so... I can get a pump from GSF by tomorrow morning, straight to my mate's workshop, so that's what's happening.

Did I mention that I hate water-cooled cars? Did I? <mutters> Mebbe I should have gone absolutely barking mad and bought a Tatra instead...
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  #8  
Old 4th October 2007
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You wuss!

Dont ever buy an older saab - you need a special tool to pull out and refit the old style B engine pump! Yours is really easy!
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  #9  
Old 4th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomarse
You wuss!
<reads nametag on mittens>
Yup, that's me.

Quote:
Dont ever buy an older saab - you need a special tool to pull out and refit the old style B engine pump! Yours is really easy!
<whimper>
It was the fact you can barely see the damn thing that was scaring me... I'm used to Citroens, where even if you CAN see it, it'll be a bugger to get to - having something that's barely visible but easy to do is doing my fruit in.
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  #10  
Old 4th October 2007
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why don't you get one when you get to fakenham??
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  #11  
Old 4th October 2007
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Originally Posted by 16saabs
why don't you get one when you get to fakenham??
Given the size of this morning's lake, it'll be done by then.
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  #12  
Old 7th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Trout
As Jim says, it really is a very easy job.
Did we all (including both Bentley and Haynes) _deliberately_ forget to mention a little certain something about this job...?

Was it a noob intelligence test (which I failed miserably...)?

A weeny matter of "Don't look at the aircon compressor, decide it looks awkward to remove and won't help much anyway, so leave it - TAKE THE AIRCON COMPRESSOR OFF..."?

First mistake was looking up from under the car, thinking the bottom crank pulley was the waterpump, and removing the three small bolts for the aircon pulley... (Belt long since AWOL, but I want to get it working again at some point)

OK, I could now see the water pump pulley.

Got that off, all the five bolts off, and the pump off. Damn. It's newish ('01 datestamp on the casting), feels good and tight, and is *spotless*. Oh. Bugger.

Wonder where the water IS coming from... With a torch and a mirror, can't see anything, but the top of the crank pulley is covered in coolant stains.

Humph about a bit, then decide that I'm going to have to bite the bullet and get the damn compressor and bracket out the way, together with the tensioner pulley. Not nearly as bad as I feared...

Blimey, that waterpump IS easy to get at, isn't it...? Once the damn aircon compressor's out the way...

No sign of anything leaking from anywhere else, so clean up the gasket face properly, new pump in, and it SEEMS to be watertight after about 300 miles over the weekend... <Fingers crossed>
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  #13  
Old 8th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMany2cvs
Did we all (including both Bentley and Haynes) _deliberately_ forget to mention a little certain something about this job...?

Was it a noob intelligence test (which I failed miserably...)?

A weeny matter of "Don't look at the aircon compressor, decide it looks awkward to remove and won't help much anyway, so leave it - TAKE THE AIRCON COMPRESSOR OFF..."?
sorry about that Adrian. My car doesn't have A/C.
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  #14  
Old 8th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albert Trout
My car doesn't have A/C.
Mine came >< this close to not having A/C...
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  #15  
Old 21st October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMany2cvs
No sign of anything leaking from anywhere else, so clean up the gasket face properly, new pump in, and it SEEMS to be watertight after about 300 miles over the weekend... <Fingers crossed>
No, it wasn't. The top half of the header tank emptied quite rapidly. Strangely, every time I checked it, the header'd be half-full. Fill it, next check, half full. Never lower.

I KNOW WHERE THE WATER'S GOING! (and how come the crank pulley was covered but the pump looked fine)

The header tank's leaking! There's a pinhole just below the seam, slightly rear of the "tab". Just small enough so that if, hypothetically, you were to top the header up, take the car for a short but fast warm-up run, then whip the bonnet up to adjust the emissions... you can SEE a fine jet spraying straight onto the alternator...
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  #16  
Old 25th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TooMany2cvs
The header tank's leaking! There's a pinhole just below the seam, slightly rear of the "tab".
Right, that's got it changed.

Looking at the underside of the tank, there's a series of almost stress/aging cracks in the plastic, along the reverse curve round by the master cylinder.


Click here for the clearer full-size image

Looking at those pics, especially the fullsize, I suspect there'd been a loss from the end, too - see where the water's been running down?

How odd. I think the pinhole leak was probably the first really visible symptom, and I suspect it would have failed properly at some stage in the not too distant future. Might be worth checking for any unexplained water losses.
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  #17  
Old 25th October 2007
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I wish you had posted the symtoms first. The always 1/2 full and never lower coolant level would have been a dead giveaway, at least for me. Never the less, I'm glad you've got it sorted. So now you have a new tank and a new pump, you are now a radiator and a few hoses and clamps away from a very reliable liquid cooling system.
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  #18  
Old 25th October 2007
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Firstly hello!!

You should be gratefull its not a motorbike, ive just had to take the carbs out of mine to get the thermostat back in!! and its still leaking..

Currently looking for a T16. have a Smart fortwo for sale. sorry for hijacking the thread

Iain.
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  #19  
Old 26th October 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grif900
I wish you had posted the symtoms first. The always 1/2 full and never lower coolant level would have been a dead giveaway, at least for me.
Yeh, it would have been... But I never _quite_ put two and two together in that way - I didn't get past...

"Hmmm. Not full. Was full. Fill"
"Hmmm. Not full. Was full. Fill"
"Hmmm. Not full. Was full. Fill"

Quote:
Never the less, I'm glad you've got it sorted. So now you have a new tank and a new pump, you are now a radiator and a few hoses and clamps away from a very reliable liquid cooling system.
<growls> And the heater matrix. Don't forget to mention the heater matrix. Else I'm gonna have warm damp feet by the end of the day.

Did I mention that I like aircooling?
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  #20  
Old 26th October 2007
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No, you hadn't actually mentioned that.
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