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  #1  
Old 15th May 2003
tandino tandino is offline
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Default The next stage.....TD - 04 turbo. (Update)

As many of you know im running into problems in the quest for more power and i feel im right at the limit of what my trusty T3 can deliver.
I know there has been talk of fitting the TD - 04 onto a C900 over on the TSN performance forum but it seems nobody has actually got round to fitting one.
Im reluctant to pay out extreme amounts of money for a hybrid T3 as it seems the TD - 04 has high enough cfm's to deliver serious power levels that im after - witness BillJ and AlanB's cars - both around or over the 300bhp mark....
I know obviously im going to have to get an adapter plate made up for the turbo to bolt up to the manifold, im also thinking of using Aeroquip lines for the oil feed, does anyone know any other problems i might run into when doing this conversion :-?? :-?? - water piping etc :-?? ,
Also how will the TD - 04 compare to the T3 in terms of spool up :-?? - im hoping for a slightly less agressive build up of boost than the T3 to try to save my (presently stock with the possiblilty of an Ericsson upgrade in the near future) transmission from grenading again :! .
Any ideas, pics etc would be welcome.

cheers Pete.
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  #2  
Old 15th May 2003
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john-w john-w is offline
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God help us!!
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  #3  
Old 15th May 2003
tandino tandino is offline
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Your quite safe John - your car only has a piddly little 8v and no amount of fancy bits will help you tred on my toes

Your gearbox may last longer however.............

Pete.

P.S - why do you need all that power to pop down the road to the pie shop John :-??
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  #4  
Old 15th May 2003
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jeronimo jeronimo is offline
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Dont suppose I can help much Tandino. Aint it the pioneers who are meant to discover everything :-?? :-??

Have you considered a turbo from a 9000. I thought they were similar to the 900 one but with a bigger compressor wheel.

Hopefully thats not all rubbish
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  #5  
Old 15th May 2003
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From memory all the connections on the TD-04 are banjo style, so would easy to connect aeroquip hosing to. Only other thought would be, can the compressor housing be rotated so that the piping will have an easy route to the intercooler.
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  #6  
Old 15th May 2003
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Widde Widde is offline
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Well there are several td04 og900 monsters running here in sweden. And they are chewing gearboxes

The largest trouble is to make the turbo fit the stock exhaust manifold.

but check this out..
http://forum.saabturboclub.com/phpbb...pic.php?t=2292
its in swedish but look at the pictures

here's the blueprint of the adapter plate


It's no larger trouble fitting it, little machining of the exh-manifold, building the plate, rebuilding the oil and water lines to and from the turbo.

here are pictures of modded manifold to fit a TD04HL-15T #6

http://194.236.61.194/_upload/Modd%20grenr%f6r_02.JPG

http://194.236.61.194/_upload/Modd%20grenr%f6r_01.JPG

http://194.236.61.194/_upload/Modd%20grenr%f6r_03.JPG
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  #7  
Old 15th May 2003
brad brad is offline
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What if, you made a spacer plate tp mount on the exhausrside of the head. Mount a 9000 exhaust manifold upside down on that and plumbed every thing.
Brad
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  #8  
Old 15th May 2003
Carl Hernandez Carl Hernandez is offline
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while it would bo cool just to use a 9k manifold upsidedown and have the turbo setup like a supra there might be problems with the matching of the manifold to the head.
mebey it fits mebey it doesnt.
if you did this i think that you would have to look into some hood modifications as well due to the turbo being closer.
iu suppose that it would sound incredibly cool due to its elevated position but hey, i suppose that if you managed to fit the turbo it would be mad fast.
just my 2 cents, i could be wrong.
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  #9  
Old 15th May 2003
saab16valve saab16valve is offline
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Tandino, why not do more internal work to the motor? I.E lowering the compression of the motor then applying more boost. I was thinking of going with J.E forged low compression pistons and doing a total bottom end rebuild. Maybe that is more then you want to do. Putting a Td-04 turbo on would be SICK though
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  #10  
Old 15th May 2003
Carl Hernandez Carl Hernandez is offline
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yeah one of the TTE (turbo team europe) members put the old pre apc pistons in his engine.
the pistons gave him a significantly lower CR (7.2 iirc) and apparently the boost sailed into the red on an unmodded apc due to the low compression not inducing knock.
although i do have to agree with saab16valve that you would have one sick 900 turbo.
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  #11  
Old 16th May 2003
Eric van Spelde Eric van Spelde is offline
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The adaptor plate looks like one used to bolt the V*lv* TD04HK1x with 7 cm2 exhaust housing. All you need to do to bolt a TD04HL6cm2 from a 9000 Aero to a c900T16 manifold IIRC is change the bolt holes. Then, of course, come the oil/coolant supply and return plumbing - if you have to purchase a 9000 Aero turbo, have the exhaust manifold drilled professionally buy the proper fittings for the plumbing and have something made up to ensure a reliable seal for the oil returnline into the block (you don't want to skimp here...) you might be close to wehat you'd pay for a bolt-on TO3 upgrade. And then you'd still have a second hand turbo. After calculating it through I decided it was not worth the hassle - Sweedspeed had my present T03 rebuilt and converted into a tailormade hybrid (I wanted spoolup as stock, but with extended high-rpm airflow capability, something they achieved with changing the angle of the compressor wheel blades, amongst others) including 360 degree thrust bearing, for 540 euro (330ish quid?)

If you have a TD04 laying around, or can get one cheap from a mate, however...
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  #12  
Old 16th May 2003
tandino tandino is offline
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Thanks for the adapter pics Widde - ive got a really good machine shop 5 mins down the road from me so i can print the pics off and get them to make up the plate.
Im going to see what the TD - 04's are going for at Steam and Spares - if its crazy money then i will get a hybrid - my thinking is around 100 for a secondhand TD - 04 :-?? - any more and ill have to think again.........
As for doing internal work - i may at a later stage but for now the turbo is definately holding up preceedings :! ,
Im also hopefully going to get an Ericsson box in the near future as im building a little project for someone and this is in return for the work im going to be putting in - lets just say its going to be a bit special - my lips are however sealed at present

Pete.
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  #13  
Old 18th May 2003
tandino tandino is offline
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Well as any of you who attended Steam & Spares will know the chances of me finding a TD-04 were about as slim as a Rizla paper .
Im still looking..........

Pete.
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  #14  
Old 18th May 2003
Alanb Alanb is offline
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Pete,

I couldn't even find a 9000 CS rear light there or engine mount so fat chance of finding a TD04!

Alanb
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  #15  
Old 22nd July 2003
tandino tandino is offline
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Well TD-04 here we come :! :! ,
I have managed to source a secondhand TD-04 for a very good price - depending upon condition i will budget for a rebuild kit if needs be,
I am going ot take my T16 off the road for a couple of weeks next week as im swapping the engine over and have a few jobs such as new windscreen,tyres, balljoints and trackrod ends before she goes in for an MOT,
This will enable me to work on the turbo-manifold adaption with the engine out of the car to make things alot easier.
I dont see any other reason why i shouldnt be able to push power upto around the 300bhp mark after the TD-04 is fitted - everything else is in place.
Whilst everythings out im going to try to fab up a 3" downpipe with the appropriate mating flange for the TD-04,
Watch this space people ...............

Pete.
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  #16  
Old 22nd July 2003
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Ragnar Ragnar is offline
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Some pic's from my installation:

http://www.mtek.chalmers.se/~burenius/020512_01.jpg
http://www.mtek.chalmers.se/~burenius/020512_02.jpg
http://www.mtek.chalmers.se/~burenius/020723_01.jpg
http://www.mtek.chalmers.se/~burenius/020723_02.jpg
http://www.mtek.chalmers.se/~burenius/020723_03.jpg
http://www.mtek.chalmers.se/~burenius/020731_02.jpg
http://www.mtek.chalmers.se/~burenius/030111_03.jpg

It's in a 99, but it really is no difference. Only you got a little more space

Good luck!

/Ragnar
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  #17  
Old 22nd July 2003
tandino tandino is offline
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Great pics Ragnar :! - as you say space is at a premium in your instalation - something which shouldn't be as much of a problem in the C900,
Is your 99t up and running :-?? ,
Interested to hear how the B202 runs with the TD-04 - spool up especially with the adapter plate in place etc,
Have you had your car on a dyno - be interested to see how the TD-04 holds power at higher rpm's than the T3 - this is where im hoping to build on my power curve as the T3 runs out of puff at 5k rpm in my application.
Many thanks for the pics

Pete.
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  #18  
Old 22nd July 2003
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Ragnar Ragnar is offline
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tandino> Just so you know, my turbo is a MHI TD04HL-15T-7. In my specific case a hybrid between the unit from a 9-5 Aero and a Volvo 850T. The turbine housing comes from the Volvo, everything else from the 9-5. This way I get a housing with the larger bolt pattern of the old T3 units and avoid the really high exhaust temp's. I also get more spool-up, which is an disadvantage performance wise but gives the gearbox a little more hope of a somewhat longer life
My car is running and the turbo gets going really good at about 3000rpm. The boost doesn't come with a great punch though, it's more av nice smooth push that starts in the 2000-something rev's and goes on to at least 5000rpm. A bit hard to tell since I'm right in the middle of adjusting everything. Currently have a problem with knocking during full load at 4000+. In that region lambda is dropping from my normal WOT-setup of ~0.75-0.85 to about 1.0. Currently waiting on delivery of my larger injectors, hopefully I'll then be able to solve this situation.

When running with another APC-unit (less knock sensitive) the boost was about 1,3-1,4 bar all the way up and this really felt like quite much power. My goal is to reach this, but with greater security towards knocking.

Cheers,
/Ragnar
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  #19  
Old 22nd July 2003
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Alex Alex is offline
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Does this imply that a turbo from a Volvo 850T would fit straight onto the Saab exhaust flange?
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  #20  
Old 22nd July 2003
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Ragnar Ragnar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex
Does this imply that a turbo from a Volvo 850T would fit straight onto the Saab exhaust flange?
Sorta'. You need to solve the problem with the volvos labyrinth-gasket. I made the small metall ring shown in pic 1 and 2 above. Works fine.

/Ragnar
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