Oil Type, Oil Woes, Oil Pans, and all things Oil

[williston]

I just bought my first Saab at a car auction, I've always been a lover of quirky vehicles or orphaned marques and Saab certainly fits the bill. It is a 1998 Saab 900S with only 75,000 kms on it, nobody would touch it because it needs a head gasket; because it was a charity auction, I took the plunge. A little sleuthing shows that the car was owned by a little old couple who are both retired music profs, so it hasn't been abused and there is not a spot of rust on it. I plan on getting it running for years of motoring enjoyment so that I can prove to my wife I am occasionally more clever than foolish.
Introduction out of the way, I see lots of useful information on this site and lots of devoted and helpful owners. One question I have about this whole sludge issue is whether the non-turbo cars (which mine is) are similarly affected? Is all the advice on oil grades identical or do I not have to worry about some things? Since I will have the head off, is it worth the extra effort of dropping the pan and does anyone have a list of parts that they would recommend refreshing on an older Saab like this?

[BobSaabit]

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT! Don't use "quirky" in a Saab group. That's a word reserved for dickhead auto writers, and I'm sure neither term describes you.

The sludge issues didn't really start until the 9-3 T7 motors in 2000. With a T5, if the valve cover looks nice and clean as well as the internal engine in front of the timing gears, I'd skip the pan drop.

Things to change soon: plugs, air filter, gas filter, cabin filter, oil and filter, coolant, dist cap, small (4mm)vacuum lines, upper idler pulley, serp belt. Obviously you'll do some of those with the head job. If it's a manual cable clutch, change the clutch cable.

[williston]

I didn't see that in the forum rules, but OK, I'll not use the word. The word itself is not to blame, I view my cars as "quirky" in a fond manner, as over the years I have come to know their idiosyncrasies and tolerate them, kind of like my wife does with me. But yeah, automotive writers use it in another context, a thinly disguised code-word for something they are unfamiliar with and it makes them uncomfortable. To me, quirky equates with something I'd like to at least test drive and cars recommended by writers usually make me yawn.
Thanks for the recommendations, as with any new car I'll pay special attention to changing out the basics that you've outlined. I called up the previous owner and she has offered up the complete service history so I think that will be tremendously helpful in determining what else to look at.
Cheers,

[BobSaabit]

Originally Posted by williston

I didn't see that in the forum rules, but OK, I'll not use the word.

No problem

Originally Posted by williston

I called up the previous owner and she has offered up the complete service history so I think that will be tremendously helpful in determining what else to look at.

If you can get a service history, the idler pulley/belt is good for about 45K before you need to worry, as is the clutch cable if you have one. So, you can skip those if they have been done in recent history. Without any history on them or no evidence of replacement you should do them as both are relatively inexpensive and can leave you stranded if they go (and they can go without a lot of warning).

[williston]

The car runs well but does have a whine which to me sounds kind of turbo-ish, but on a car without a turbo. From reading other newsgroups I had attributed this to the idler pulley being on it's way out, so that was on my list of things to swap out. I'll check the history when I get it.

[BobSaabit]

Originally Posted by williston

The car runs well but does have a whine which to me sounds kind of turbo-ish, but on a car without a turbo. From reading other newsgroups I had attributed this to the idler pulley being on it's way out, so that was on my list of things to swap out. I'll check the history when I get it.

Should probably start a new thread for this issue as we're likely out of the oil related question area (although maybe not ... but start a thread with a new subject anyway to get proper attention to the whine issue and not clog this one too much with possible non-oil related posts).

[loveb]

Gonna try HKS superoil next. The royal purple seems to get the engien to run hotter. Same case with our racecar (although a civic) temps went up about 4 degs I think. I think the australian HKS viscosities are 25-35-45-55. What to use? and what weight? its summer now so I'm guessing 10-35?

[zoli.m13]

Hi Guys,

Recently I was reading saturn fans forums, where the oil consumption is not rare: some of these saturners runs 1 qt per 300 miles for 100,000 miles!!!

Main reason: low friction engine design (like SAAB B205), oil ring sticks to the piston due to its design to hold the oil (layer) on the cylinder wall; no / less oil drain hole on the ring (if my interpretation is good). Reason of this design: thinner oils in use / suggested by the car manufacturer.

My problem getting to be the same: due to the turbocharger and quite weak oil pump min xxW40 oil recommended, but this is against the design of oil rings.

I'm thinking on to change from 0W40/5W40/5W50 to 5W30 dexos2* approved oil (like GM or Mobil 1). I have a good experience in my wife's 1.6 16V Ecotech engine: brand new, 10W40 and some 5W40 oils were in use with oil burning, but absolutely nothing with GM 5W30 (dexos2 approved).

Any thoughts are much appreciated!
---
*dexos2 is the approved oil for gasoline GM/Opel cars in Europe

[BobSaabit]

I see you have a '98 - is it a T5/B204 motor or a T7/B205 motor? Here in the USA you'd have a T5.... what is it over there?

[zoli.m13]

It's B205 and T7.

[BobSaabit]

Don't use an oil with a hot rating of 30 weight then. Stick with an ACEA A3/B3 rated 0W-40 or 5W-40. Tests have been done and the weaker oild pump in the T7 needs a 40 weight to maintain pressure when hot. Don't worry at all about a 0W or 5W being too thin - even with a 0W40, your oil will be thicker when it is cold than it is when it is hot. A thinner oil will get the flow moving faster when you cold-start, which is the most important thing to worry about.

[zoli.m13]

Originally Posted by BobSaabit

Don't use an oil with a hot rating of 30 weight then. Stick with an ACEA A3/B3 rated 0W-40 or 5W-40. Tests have been done and the weaker oild pump in the T7 needs a 40 weight to maintain pressure when hot. Don't worry at all about a 0W or 5W being too thin - even with a 0W40, your oil will be thicker when it is cold than it is when it is hot. A thinner oil will get the flow moving faster when you cold-start, which is the most important thing to worry about.

Thx - actually, this is my point of view as well.
All I want to use this elder premium car for commute for years without any extra money shovel into the engine / turbo refurbishing due to oil consumption.
1. My first attempt is to use STP Smoke Treatment - no success, but heavier mix with (Total Quartz 9000) 5W40 cases extremely silent cold start, but no effect on oil consumption.
2. Thinking on to make a piston soak, but in this high mileaged car seems to me risky - causing bigger trouble like before was.
3. Turbo sealing replacement takes USD 260, could be worth later...

[VAinWI]

Hey, all. I don't think I've posted here before, but I've read lots and directed others here (mostly to help fix my car), and SO appreciate all the collected/ive wisdom.

I have 1999 9-3 SE with 156,000 miles on it. I was driving across the state the other day when my oil light came on. I got off the highway, couldn't find synthetic oil (figured it was low, that was always the issue in my OTHER cars....) oil tested fine on the dipstick but... anyway, I had to drive about 10 miles to find a Walmart to get synthetic oil. So I did. And I put in 1/2 quart, then got back on the road. Light came on again, about a mile down the road. I drove for a bit (I was only about 30 miles from my destination and in the middle of farm country), pulled off again, heard a small amount of lifter noise, dumped the other 1/2 quart in (I know, I know..... this could have been handled better). Traveled the rest of the way to my destination. Got there, oil level is still fine, but light had gone from initial flickering to solid on. Stopped where I needed to go, started to head out (still thinking there was something wrong with the oil LEVEL, not the pressure.... grrrr!) and light came on again, after about a mile. I stopped at a parts place, asked the guys for help, one of them came out and listened and suggested I not drive it more (already, by this point, my conclusion). So, I had it trailered back home and I'm trying to figure out which direction to go.

When it starts up, there's a short time of a little bit of lifter noise, but then it sounds normal. I haven't driven it except onto/off the trailer since I decided to not drive it more but I'm assuming the light comes on shortly after getting on the road, as it had been. When it was hot, and the light was on, it sounded a little clicky, but no knocks, nothing that I'd consider "tapping". What do I do first? Someone suggested a compression test, what will that get me? I've had everything from, "well, it might not be toast and I can start taking things apart until I find something and hope for the best but no guarantees and it'll probably cost you gobs of money", to "you're going to need a new engine."

Advice?
VAinWI

[BobSaabit]

You need to drop the oil pan and clean the screen. If you are lucky, you haven't done any damage to the engine. If not, you may need a motor. Start with the pan drop, see how it sounds and runs afterwards.

If you were cautious, you could pull the bearings while the pan is out and check or replace them.

[bkrell]

Originally Posted by BobSaabit

You need to drop the oil pan and clean the screen. If you are lucky, you haven't done any damage to the engine. If not, you may need a motor. Start with the pan drop, see how it sounds and runs afterwards.

If you were cautious, you could pull the bearings while the pan is out and check or replace them.

Yep, that sounds about right, as does the range of advice you heard. More than likely you have a clogged screen. Don't drive it until you get the problem solved!

[VAinWI]

What do you think the chances of the engine being ok might be? I don't want to dump (more) 100s of $$ into it and find out it's toast. I'm looking for at least a fighting chance... Things that make me think it might be, I am very possibly completely wrong: no knocking, car still runs - it didn't seize, sounds fine until the light comes on.

[BobSaabit]

Originally Posted by VAinWI

What do you think the chances of the engine being ok might be? I don't want to dump (more) 100s of $$ into it and find out it's toast. I'm looking for at least a fighting chance... Things that make me think it might be, I am very possibly completely wrong: no knocking, car still runs - it didn't seize, sounds fine until the light comes on.

No knocking is a good thing. I'd give you 75 / 25 odds. That's just a guess... the longer you drove it with the light on, the higher the chances for serious damage.

If you DIY, there's no question you should repair it. A mechanic would want $300 to do the pan clean job. Even if you go to sell it, the value is nil if you say it needs a motor, so make the investment if you need to. In your favor is the fact that the t5 motor is robust.

There is also a chance that you have a pressure sender problem or something else is wrong, but you have to take precautions - running it any more would be foolish.

[zoli.m13]

Originally Posted by zoli.m13

Thx - actually, this is my point of view as well.
All I want to use this elder premium car for commute for years without any extra money shovel into the engine / turbo refurbishing due to oil consumption.
1. My first attempt is to use STP Smoke Treatment - no success, but heavier mix with (Total Quartz 9000) 5W40 cases extremely silent cold start, but no effect on oil consumption.
2. Thinking on to make a piston soak, but in this high mileaged car seems to me risky - causing bigger trouble like before was.
3. Turbo sealing replacement takes USD 260, could be worth later...

Just a short update:
1. TQ5W40 is just semi-synthetic here; I changed to M1 5W50,
2. Before m1 5W50 I gave her a piston soak (sucking STP gas additive thorugh the white check valve vacuum line) and engine flush with STP (into the oil).
3. Changed the O-rings (TB, turbo air-intake pipe, etc.) and the clamp (turbo intake pipe) without restoration of the turbo.
4. Result after 1250 miles: minimal top-up needed (calculated 1 liter per 3500 miles), the tailpipe getting to be clear from soot, smoother running and less vibration, cleaner oxygen-sensor.

[Naks]

Not to start another oil debate, while browsing at Autozone this morning I found these two oils that conform to GM-LL-A-025:



Where I live (cape town), these are the following temperatures: winter minimum is 4C, summer maximum is 44C (very rare).

Which would be more suitable for my v6 (2008, 44500km)?

[Topherism]

Originally Posted by bkrell

Yep, that sounds about right, as does the range of advice you heard. More than likely you have a clogged screen. Don't drive it until you get the problem solved!

You may want to look into the cause of the problem, too. Just did the breather upgrade and dropped the pan. Had crumbly bits blocking about 20% of the screen. Cleaned it all out with oven cleaner and put in a new o-ring for the pick-up tube. Switched to Mobil1 High Mileage since it's 10w-30 and ACEA A3/B3 with a good shear number. Ran AutoRX but didn't notice much cleaning in the cam/valves. I plan to send off a sample for analysis and will post it up when I do.