Changing Radiotor Fluid

[Kferguson]

Hi. I have a 2004 SAAB 93 2.0 T and Wanted to change the Radiator Fluid. I checked and could not find any drainage plugs in the radiator!
Do you guys know if I just should change the fluid it by opening the bottom radiator hose or do you guys have seen a flush plug?
In addition, I live here in Dallas. Texas. Do you guys know of a good reliable mechanics or repair shops who are specialized in SAABs that charge reasonable for repairs?


Thank you
Kelly
GO SAAB

[DavidMorgan]

Might I ask why ..
Why change the fluid ?

[Mespo]

Good morning,

This is what I found on the WIS. But this is (Prestone) Long Life stuff...do you have the orange one in your expansion tank !
I have a 2004 with 85k kms on it and I am not planning to change it at all, maybe i'm wrong !!

Good luck on your duty..
Regards

[JMarkert]

Yes, you're correct there doesn't seem to be any obvious drain plug. Pulling the lower radiator hose is the acceptable protocol. If I'm remembering right, the hose clamp is a spring loaded thing that you need pliers or vice grips to loosen.

The official coolant is Dex-Cool, which has had various lifespan estimates. Nowadays, they advertise it as a five year fluid, so changing it at least once in the life of the car is probably prudent.

If you want to go with a more official fluid, www.eeuroparts.com sells some stuff made by Febi - I bought some but I have no idea whether it's any better than Dex-Cool. Whatever brand you go with, it's best to do several flushes with clean (maybe even distilled) water. The engine is pretty happy with a lot of different antifreezes, but mixtures of antifreeze types can cause problems.

When you do the change, it's a convenient time to also change the thermostat - it makes the change/flushing much easier (your can do lots of fills/flushes and dont need to wait for the tstat to open),

EDIT - OK, just looked at Crespo's post so it does sort of look like theres a plug. But I bet is's hard to get to with all the plastic stuff down there. Removing the hose is messy, but it worked ;-)

[DavidMorgan]

Page 199 of the Owners Manual:

The properties of the coolant are retained
for the entire service life of the car. Therefore,
it is not necessary to change the coolant.
The coolant contains 45 % antifreeze and
anti-corrosion fluid. This ratio gives the best
cooling effect. Lower concentrations should
be avoided, in view of the corrosion risk.
Other brands of antifreeze can damage the

engine and cooling system. http://www.extendedgmwarranty.com/ow...-Saab-9-3M.pdf

[JMarkert]

Originally Posted by DavidMorgan

Page 199 of the Owners Manual:

The properties of the coolant are retained
for the entire service life of the car. Therefore,
it is not necessary to change the coolant.
The coolant contains 45 % antifreeze and
anti-corrosion fluid. This ratio gives the best
cooling effect. Lower concentrations should
be avoided, in view of the corrosion risk.
Other brands of antifreeze can damage the

engine and cooling system. http://www.extendedgmwarranty.com/ow...-Saab-9-3M.pdf

Yes, David, but GM/SAAB define the service life of the car based on the first owner and whether there will be a warranty claim if a particular fluid isn't changed. Many of our cars are now six+ years old and with over 100K miles, well beyond anything that GM considered when writing up the guidelines. Of course there's little urgency, but I stand by my advice to consider changing the fluid after several years of service - the anti corrosive properties of coolants are based on a chemical buffer package that will eventually get used up (even if it takes a long, long time).

[DavidMorgan]

OK, yes you are right .. it does say "service life" .. (backs out head low)
But my 9-3 SAAB will service me for all my life unless I can one day afford a new one..

[jlrdrony]

never change the coolant or you want to start with new problems of leakages?.

when you vacuum the coolant rust factor comes into the engine circuit, gaskets, radiator joints, hose pipes....., then problems.

I have never changed the coolant..............my opel omega has the same coolant during 13 years with no problems and color look like ok.

but, you can do whatever you want..........

[Roger And Out]

Radiator has drain plug. Pain in the ### to get to. Remove large plastic shroud from foward bottom of engine. Easy to reach drain plug if car is on a lift. Otherwise you have to lay flat on ground and reach up into the lower engine compartment. It's on passenger side of radiator, on vertical wall of black plastic end part. Most of radiator is aluminum tubing and fins. It is about a 1 & 1/4 inch diameter plug with a flat plastic tab; which has to be rotated counter-clockwise to open. About one to one and a half turns. Then pull the plug out carefully towards the wheel. Difficult to reach. It's above a heavy steel brace. Do not try removing any of the steel brace components. They hold the engine and body together. Barely enough room to get you hand and pliers in the confined space. When you open the drain plug, there is also a hose barb which points back towards the fire wall for the old anti-freeze to run out. Hose barb is about 5/16 inch diameter and about 1 inch long.

[JMarkert]

Originally Posted by DavidMorgan

OK, yes you are right .. it does say "service life" .. (backs out head low)

Lol, I'm not sure you really need to feel great shame here .

FWIW, I actually changed mine when I decided to change out the thermostat after I noticed noticed that the car took a long time to warm up and I was pretty sure the thermostat was on the way out (at the beginning of last winter). I wouldn't have been in a hurry to do it otherwise.

And I have to say, going jlrdrony's route may not ever do any of us any harm, I just like to keep ahead of these things. I've read lots of stuff on the internet about DexCool going bad after a while and forming some nasty precipitates.

Roger's description sounds a lot like the setup on the ng900 (which I used to have). When I did that one, I took the plug out with lots of difficulty and annoyance. After all that effort, it turned out the opening was plugged with gunk and no fluid came out. Honestly, given the difficulty with using the proper plug, I'd just go with pulling the hose even though I now know better. Ramps and a big bucket made it possible to catch most of the mess.

[robhurlburt]

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...94#post1370294

[JonV]

P. 179 of my 03 Manual reads :

"The properties of the coolant are retained
for the entire service life of the car. Therefore,
it is not necessary to change the coolant."

Says nothing about original owner or warranty period, I interpret that as as long as the car runs and it's kept topped up you don't have to change it.

Now GM and Texaco/Chevron<(original manufacturer) have said 100,000, 150,000, 5 yrs and Lifetime at different times since the introduction of Dexcool.

Pennzoil, Havoline and Prestone Dexcool say 5yrs or 150,000 miles. All offer a pre-diluted and full strength. Now before a big debate opens up on using 50/50 premix or full strengh and diluting it yourself, it still comes out to 50/50.....

Oh, I'll be changing mine at my next Service.....

[JMarkert]

Awesome, very nice pics, Rob


One little warning for everyone who might not know. Antifreeze has a sweet taste, and is poisonous if you drink it. Obviously, few people would be tempted, but cats and dogs can be drawn to puddles in your driveway. It's important to catch as much as you can and clean up any mess

[JMarkert]

Originally Posted by JonV

Says nothing about original owner or warranty period, I interpret that as as long as the car runs and it's kept topped up you don't have to change it.

I'll say again, "Service Life" only means it won't cause major problems early in the life of the car. GM isn't worried about second or third owners. Why on earth should they? GM has never had a financial relationship with me. And as JonV notes, like oil specs and recommendations, the recommendations for Dex-Cool get revised now and then. Doing one change every five or six years seems like cheap insurance to me, even if it may not be absolutely necessary.

There is a good reason NOT to use the 50 50 mix. It's important to do lots of flushes with clean (ideally distilled) water when you do a flush. There will always be residual water in the system, and actually quite a bit of it. You're aiming for 45 to 50% antifreeze. If you start with a 50-50 mix and some water in the system it'll be hard to have a 50% final concentraton. Ideally, start with 100% and figure out what half the volume of the system is. Add that much of the 100% to the engine, then top up with distilled water. Oh, and run the car for a little bit to purge the air, and top up with more distilled water.

[JonV]

And there won't be any residual left in the system to screw up that self blended 45/55?? Come on now.

The Book says "Entire Service Life of the Car" you write your own definition to counter that... "it won't cause Major Problems Early in the life of the car"

If you top off with the premix even once, you've altered 45/55 "Mix". If you flush even with Distilled water, as stated, there will still be enough left in the plumbing to dilute either the 50/50 premix or the self blended 45/55 to skewed percentages. Then if you top off with distilled water again after running the engine.... your skewing the percentage again.... The Pre-Diluted works for me either topping off or changing...

in the End do whatever makes you happy. The few percent difference being discussed will not cause a major failure or IMO any failure. It's comparable to being 2-3 ounces short on Oil, the Engine won't know...

[JMarkert]

Originally Posted by JonV

The Book says "Entire Service Life of the Car" you write your own definition to counter that... "it won't cause Major Problems Early in the life of the car"

Um, feel free to define service life however you like - there's nothing in the book that actually defines "Service Life" I'm just making the point that it's unlikely the engineering and marketing folk at GM are defining service life the way you do. It seems far more reasonable to me that fluid change recommendations are made to a) minimize the amount of required service (because this sells cars and keeps first owners happy) while still making sure that b) nothing terrible happens while the car is still being paid for or under warranty. Why on earth should they worry whether my second hand car will hit 200,000 miles? Perhaps they do have the higher/purer standard you mention, but I doubt it. FWIW, the EPA defines "Useful Life" of a vehicle as 120,000 miles in this document http://www.epa.gov/oms/regs/ld-hwy/c...fact_sheet.pdf . It's hard to imagine GM is more generous.

Anyhow you've pointed out the ever changing Dex-Cool recommendations, so they do re-evaluate these things as time goes on and more long-term info becomes available. Probably nothing horrible will happen to you if you leave the original stuff in, but we've seen enough revisions in specs that I for one don't take the manual as necessarily being inspired truth.

Originally Posted by JonV

And there won't be any residual left in the system to screw up that self blended 45/55?? Come on now.

I guess I should have been more clear when I wrote:

Originally Posted by JMarkert

Ideally, start with 100% and figure out what half the volume of the system is. Add that much of the 100%,TO THE ENGINE then top up with distilled water.

First, you will have done enough fill/flush cycles to ensure that the concentration in your car is now 0%, correct?

Second, I didn't mean to imply that you should make your own 50-50 (or 45-55) either. What I said (meant?) is that you should figure the total capacity of the system (which in the case of my car is 7.5 quarts). Since waaaay more than a few ounces will get hung up in the motor, you should drain out the last flush water, button things up, then add 3.75 quarts of antifreeze to the cooling system first, then top up with more water. If you do this you're sure to have the correct percentage in the system. I promise you that when you're doing the final top-up, it'll be a lot less than 3.75 quarts.