major issue 2003 saab 9-5

[blackls1ttop]

ok for the people following the thread here is some updates (again sorry for the long read)

took my sister in laws 01 9-5 today and i removed the DICE. here is some notes i took

* 01 car started with DICE unit completly removed, no interior lights or wipers, radio was locked and no communication with OBD II port, but car was started and idle was fine

* used the 03 dice unit on 01 car, interior lights had some issues, hazard flashers were not working properly, wipers did not work when washer was activated, radio was locked, but car did start and idle fine (forgot to check for communication with OBD port )

* 01 cars DICE unit on the 03 car activated the windshelid wipers properly, all door lights worked as it should, the wipers did not do the intermediate wipe that its supposed to do after 10 seconds from using the washers, radio still did not work at all (radio randomly worked in the past before during this problem) car started for a moment and turned off, it did that twice. afterwards car would crank but not start.

* on the 01 car, Tested pins 14 and and 5 at the DICE (pin 14=I BUS + and pin 5= I BUS -) i got 2 volts with the ignition in ON and with the ignition in off key removed. (03 car was getting 10 volts at these wires with the ignition on and 0 volts with the ignition off key removed)

*on 01 car checked pin 5 and 14 for continuity at the rear in the trunk at the cd player plug, i got continuity when green was connected to green and when white was connected to white. the I BUS wires DO NOT run in a series circuit. ( on 03 car when i had pin 5 connected on DICE connecter while checking cd player plug, i got continuity on BOTH green and white wires, this indicates a short circuit in the harness of the I BUS)


so now that i narrowed it down to the 2 I BUS wires, white and green wire, these 2 wires run through 17 components throughout the vehicle, i have to check one by one at each connector where i will find the short. also i disconnected the ECU while taking voltage test of I BUS wires, the ECU did not effect any of the readings indicating the ECU unit is not the cause of the short. so will be updating this thread as i go along, i know this is a complicated issue so i dont expect to get much responses on here but i will keep you all updated.

[blackls1ttop]

well a little update


had meter set to voltage, hooked up I BUS + and to ground, was at 11 volts with the ignition on, started pulling fuses and i pulled fuse number 26, this fuse is supposed to be a 7.5 amp but there was a 10amp in its place. when i removed this fuse the voltage fluctuated from 0.1 volts to 4 volts constantly. i removed the fuse and tried to start the car but it did not allow the starter to crank. the fuse is related to the SPA,sunroof, PSM,PMM,seatbelt warning light. i somehow got the car to start by luck and i pulled the fuse with the car on, all of a sudden the DICE started doing all its correct functions (interior lights on) wiper working) i got a message on the SID that said key not accepted, but the car continued to idle fine. i got a check engine light, i plugged in the scanner and IT WORKED! it read the data, there was a trans range sensor code, i was able to read the full data from the trionic and it was working great. i did hear a few relays clicking on and off every 10 to 15 seconds with the fuse pulled. now to trace the wiring for fuse 26 and all its componets. i dont know if the instrument cluster is hooked up to fuse 26 but the door open indicator would come on (i had the doors open) and then randomly turn off, im sure thats related to the problem.

[srmoose]

Almost sounds like the car flooded some time.??

[blackls1ttop]

wow that would suck but its been in california all its life and it hasent been driven much really.

update again, anybody know what box controls the door open indicator on the cluster? my driver door is open, i start cranking the car then all of a sudden door indicator light turns on randomly and car starts! only when the door open indicator turns on thats when the car starts. when the car is running the door open indicator would turn off again and then if i remove fuse 26 it would sense that the door is open and light will turn on. i will look up in the WIS hopefully i find a control system for the door or what box controls it

[blackls1ttop]

another update

still working on this thing im starting to loose hope but i have to fix it, problem is coming out the TWICE unit, if i remove fuse 26 (red and blue wire) and unplug the Twice while the car is running the car will function perfectly normal. signals, radio work etc, when fuse 26 is only pulled car will run but the problem comes and goes, as in the radio works but the display doesent show the station but all of a sudden the station will show then disappear, but if i unplug the TWICE the station shows with no issues. also sometimes im getting a warning on the SID saying key not accepted i dont know why. its the correct key and it allows the car to crank but it will say key not accepted sometimes even while i have the car running. does the TWICE generate the message and send it to the SID through the i BUS? any info about this?

[blackls1ttop]

FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! after weeks of working on this POS i found the problem!

after losing hope and working on it only 1 or 2 days in the week i decided today to just check the last component to the I BUS system and bam!! the SPA box that controls the rear back up sensors was melted. i disconnected the box and now everything works normally like it should. 1 to 1.5 volts in I bus, radio works, signals work, hazards work etc. i just hope somebody in the future will find my post helpful, and i hope for nobody to go through what i went through with this car. im glad i now found the issue. now to put everything back togethor and get a new radiator, and change the timing belt.

here is pics.

[srmoose]

WOW so what caused it? has to be a massive short, but was it inside of the SPA or did it short somewhere else and fry the module?
and Wow you have that ripped apart!
nice seats and nice OBDII
at least you could get at those extra coins that go into the rail of drivers seat.

[srmoose]

You might want to make sure why it fried before installing new SPA.
I still cant imagine what would do that.
Sensors? massive short? rear bumper damage? just guesses.
my computer with WIS on it is out of service for a bit. but is it fused or have a relay?

[blackls1ttop]

i have no clue why the heck this part shorted, i got no resistance in any of the wiring so i know the wires are good, the only thing now is tracing the back up sensors to see if there is a short in that. but the rear bumper is original and has never been damaged.

[srmoose]

I cant imagine what caused it, the sensors are what it goes to but really, I dont think they can short out.
A bit surprised that it didnt catch on fire...it would have been easier to find.

[indy500]

Based on the pictures of the board, I would say that the capacitor failed and leaked onto the board and you had a fire inside the module. Here is a link for additional information. I'd still check for shorts, but it looks more like an internal failure. The part should be able to withstand an external short to most of the voltages found in the car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Nice pics of the rest of the car as well - could be useful in the future. thanks for posting those!

[blackls1ttop]

Originally Posted by srmoose

I cant imagine what caused it, the sensors are what it goes to but really, I dont think they can short out.
A bit surprised that it didnt catch on fire...it would have been easier to find.

the only thing i can think of is the 10 amp fuse on slot 26, it uses a 7.5 amp and somebody had a 10 amp in its place. but im sure a short would blow a 10 amp easily. and yea when i opened the querter panel carpet the area had a burnet smell.

Originally Posted by indy500

Based on the pictures of the board, I would say that the capacitor failed and leaked onto the board and you had a fire inside the module. Here is a link for additional information. I'd still check for shorts, but it looks more like an internal failure. The part should be able to withstand an external short to most of the voltages found in the car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Nice pics of the rest of the car as well - could be useful in the future. thanks for posting those!

thanks for the link, seems your right about the capacitor failure, the capacitor desoldered itself from the heat too. i wish i took more pics but yea im slowly assembling it togethor now.