C900 Idle issues.

[discord]

I got a compression reading yesterday. It looks like:

cyl 1. 200
cyl 2. 180+
cyl 3. 190
cyl 4. 190-

My friend read the gauge. I guess he meant a little over for + and a little under for -. He had trouble turning the ignition. I actually asked him to catch the numbers on each turn and so the full reading that he took was

cyl 1. 120-155-180-200
cyl 2. 90-120-150-180
cyl 3. 120-155-180-180
cyl 4. 120-150-180-190

I actually turned the motor 6 times on each cylinder, so it may have been a little too fast for him to read the gauge, since he only got 4 entries. Do my numbers check out?


Furthermore, somebody told me that I have the wiring wrong on my distributer, The picture below is how i have my wiring now.


This is what is suggested....

1) the firing order is 1342 according to your diagram all the plug wires are firing early-one place on the cap
3 should be plug 1
4 should be plug 3
2 should be plug 4
1 should be plug 2

remove the cap on the lip of the distributor is a line that tells you what number one spark plug is.

Is this right ?

[discord]

guessing my compression #s are good. Also I think that my wiring was probably in the correct order, I tried the suggestion but it didn't work.

Someone on cartalk forums was nice enough to identify some of the broken wires on my website, which I had soldered and heatshrinked :

the four wire plug that sits near the starter where you found that cut red wire is for the CPS (crank position sensor) this will cause your car to die this is responsible for variable timming of the engine

the white and yellow wire in front of the engine on the head is the temp sensor

Maybe I should check the sensors and wiring. I'm thinking about pulling the plastic bell housing which covers the flywheel to check the TDC marks....

[discord]

bump...

I'd really like to get the car running by the end of this coming week. The current things that I am suspecting are:

Crank Position Sensor
Coolant Temperature Sensor
Faulty Fuel Injectors
Timing

Does anybody have any suggestions they think I should add to the list to check?

[Banman]

Your compression #'s are alright. certainly not the cause of your not running.

Diagram of your cap and direction are correct.

Have you confirmed the rotor points to the #1 lead on the cap when you have the engine at tdc?

You can easily turn the engine (by hand) if you loosen the sparkplugs and then stick a large screwdriver into the flywheel teeth and pry the engine along...

Coolant temp sensor won't keep you from starting

If you have a consistant strong spark than your cps is working.

I forget at this point: do you have fresh plugs, cap, rotor, and sparkplug leads?

[discord]

All fresh. I was just checking out my TDC mark now to see if the rotor is in the correct place. Thanks for the feedback. The flywheel doesn't seem to move along with the screwdriver. I was being gentle, is alot of force required? Maybe I have to remove the starter first?

[Banman]

Don't remove the starter.

Do remove the sparkplugs to relieve compression and make sure you're in neutral...

It's not going to spin freely like a road wheel but it should move steadily. Helps to use a pry bar to hold the clutch cover out of the way--just enough to keep friction off the tool you're using to turn the engine.

[discord]

I had first removed the spark plugs, and I tried to turn it, with the car in neutral. Then I removed the starter, before I read this. That flywheel is really difficult to turn. Can it move freely in either direction? I'll look into using a pry bar to let off the clutch....

[Banman]

Don't pry on the clutch--shouldn't be necessary. The flywheel should turn either way but it's best to turn it the way it normally goes.

Are you using a prybar or screwdriver about 1 foot long? You do need some leverage for this but with the plugs out it shouldn't be too hard to turn...

[discord]

I used a bolt or nut to get more leverage and turn it... Sorry about my confusion, it was my first...

I was surprised where the rotor was pointing at underneath the distributor cap. Previously I thought the #1 terminal on the cap was the top terminal closest to the passenger side of the car. However, the metal contact point on the rotor appears to point 180 degrees from that, or towards the driver side wheel. I only changed the cap and rotor, never changed the distributor itself.

It seems that both the cap and rotor only go on 1 way, that there isn't a way to turn them upside down. I'm considering trying my wiring with the #1 terminal being this other location of the cap.

[Banman]

Give it another full rotation. There's a 2 to 1 ratio between the crank and the camshafts...

As you get close to TDC on the next rotation put your finger over the #1 spark plug hole to confirm it's on the compression stroke. You'll feel some air pressure build up against your finger as you do this confirming it's the compression stroke. Then see where the rotors pointing. That's where the #1 lead should be hooked up and the rest follow from there.

[discord]

Thanks again Banman for all your help! I like that shot of you car, did you manage to get a whole 4x8 sheet of plywood in the boot?

I gave it another rotation, and the #1 terminal was where I thought it was supposed to be. Looks like I had the wiring right the first time I put it on. I started the car, and I'm back to my dying / idle issue. This time I noticed that my thermostat was showing the car in the red zone, even though the engine was cold. Would this be due to the block mounted thermostat, or the one hooked up to the cooling lines? Could this be the cause of my problems?

[Zelandeth]

From what I recall, the temperature sensors for the gauge and the engine management system are completely separate. Gauge runs off the one from the block, ECU would likely be reading one in a coolant line.

Would have thought that an implausible reading from a coolant temperature sensor would trigger the check engine light too.

Should be easy enough to test though - sure there's a table of resistances/temperatures about somewhere which would allow a check to be made to confirm that it's at least vaguely in the right ballpark with a bog standard multimeter set to the ohms range.

[Banman]

Originally Posted by discord

Thanks again Banman for all your help! I like that shot of you car, did you manage to get a whole 4x8 sheet of plywood in the boot?
Actually two full sheets of 3/4"x 4'x 8' and no damage to the headliner!

I gave it another rotation, and the #1 terminal was where I thought it was supposed to be. Looks like I had the wiring right the first time I put it on. I started the car, and I'm back to my dying / idle issue.
Good--sort of...
This time I noticed that my thermostat was showing the car in the red zone, even though the engine was cold.
This would be that yellow/white wire that goes to the sending unit below the thermostat housing. NO effect to your car not running--unless somehow when you were fixing broken wires you crossed it with something else...

Would this be due to the block mounted thermostat,
No.
or the one hooked up to the cooling lines?
The switch in the upper radiator hose to block? I think that's a high-temp cut-out switch for the a/c. again no factor
Could this be the cause of my problems?

With all you've been doing you've at least built your skills up!

[discord]

no big mystery here. I caught the block sensor wire where the starter mounts. I hooked it back up and the gauge is fine. The car is still running terrible, it seems like the engine shakes while it's trying to run. I can go back to my list, I know the plug wiring is fine, but does anybody else have any other suggestions?

[discord]

bump... anybody know what i should check next to get the car running?