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  #1  
Old 18th March 2012
SaabFT SaabFT is offline
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Default 9-5 black smoke & loss of power

Hello all,

Recently bought a Saab 9-5 3.0 Tid 2002 registration last month. It judders a lot during a cold start up with white smoke being puffed out the exhaust pipe. However, once you start to drive all symptoms and smoke clear and not to be seen again until the next cold start up.

Also, there's very dark smoke coming from the exhaust pipe when pushing it a bit with a loss of power, or possibly a lag of power, when in 4th gear. Although, it is smoky in all gears, but only when you put your foot down a bit more than usual...not ramming your foot down.

The MPG doesn't suffer. I'm currently getting 46 MPG on the combined cycle, which I find unbelievable for such a big engine.

Any ideas would be appreciated with possible costs involved.

Thanks in anticipation,

SaabFT
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  #2  
Old 19th March 2012
srmoose srmoose is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaabFT View Post
Hello all,

Recently bought a Saab 9-5 3.0 Tid 2002 registration last month. It judders a lot during a cold start up with white smoke being puffed out the exhaust pipe. However, once you start to drive all symptoms and smoke clear and not to be seen again until the next cold start up.

Also, there's very dark smoke coming from the exhaust pipe when pushing it a bit with a loss of power, or possibly a lag of power, when in 4th gear. Although, it is smoky in all gears, but only when you put your foot down a bit more than usual...not ramming your foot down.

The MPG doesn't suffer. I'm currently getting 46 MPG on the combined cycle, which I find unbelievable for such a big engine.

Any ideas would be appreciated with possible costs involved.

Thanks in anticipation,

SaabFT
Worst case IMO headgasket is going slowly, runs fine when you shut it off a bit builds up which you burn off when starting.
Maybe more likely but I dont know you weather (sunny dry and warm? rainy wet and cold?), would be condensation build up in am that gets burned off.
The dark (Black) smoke would be un-burnt gas, Blue would be oil.
any CEL? and 46mpg? 1st is that real? or is it what you SID is saying?
2nd I can only presume they are imperial gallons? (I dont assume)
3rd even with imperial gallons it seems too high. if it is real mpg I would not care about any of the other issues (LOL)
I paid about $1100 USD for both head gaskets installed and timed.
the dark smoke issue should be less than $100 to diagnose (Unless you do have a CEL) but it could be DICs, spark plugs, injectors, or sensors.
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1986 900 4 dr RIP 1976 99 2 dr RIP, 1977 99 5 dr RIP
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  #3  
Old 19th March 2012
SaabFT SaabFT is offline
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Weather - symptoms are the same whether it's sunny and warm or wet and cold

I'm assuming 'CEL' means 'Check Engine Light'? If so, it's NOT on.

46mpg? Yes, that's what the SID is telling me and the figures are pretty close...here are the maths - fill up with twenty litres (UK) and although I fill up a bit sooner than later I would get 200 miles out of that tank full. I'm also amazed by the MPG too!

What's a DIC?

Thanks for your comments so far.

SaabFT
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  #4  
Old 20th March 2012
srmoose srmoose is offline
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Good MPG! thats about 37 mpg US gallon
although a tank should get you about 400 miles (18 US gallons)
Ok I see You have the Tid. black smoke might be normal, we dont have any Diesel Saabs here. (allegedly us Americans dont like them)
and now I understand your MPG a lot better, and makes me envious.
The DIC is or are in a V6 the Direct Ignition Cassette
the V6 petrol has 2 of them one for each head, they act as the ignition coil. (so you would not have them)
A power lag is a bit normal for a saab because the turbo does not kick it right away. but it does kick in after a second or so.
with the black smoke you have a spark/fuel problem.
fuel is not being fully burned. When you say registration last month, what do you mean by that? is that the MOT? and does an MOT inspection check emissions?
I could be way off track here...
If your emissions were checked I would think it would have caught the unburnt fuel.

Since a diesel does not have a spark plug I guess it would not have a DIC.
So I wonder what the element connectors look like.
Can you take a picture? (Now I am just curious)
I am thinking the white puff is condensation, otherwise you would be losing coolant.
Was the back of the car black or sooty? when you bought it? or now?
The diesels (in general) are very sensitive to air leaks in the system.

I have been trying to reload my WIS (workshop information system) onto new computer without success.
I am using a pirate copy which does not have Diesels listed, as soon as I can get my WIS running I will see if I can lead you to any other place to look.
until them maybe someone else can chime in?
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'01 9-5 Wagon 2.3. '00 9-5 Wagon 3.0, 1999 9-3 Conv.
1990 900 3 dr RIP, 1985 900 2 dr coupe RIP
1986 900 4 dr RIP 1976 99 2 dr RIP, 1977 99 5 dr RIP
1973 Sonett Gone but not forgotten
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  #5  
Old 20th March 2012
srmoose srmoose is offline
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I also now wonder with that MPG what it takes to convert the gas V6 to diesel?
the engine block is the same as well as many of the accessories.
Anyone?
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'01 9-5 Wagon 2.3. '00 9-5 Wagon 3.0, 1999 9-3 Conv.
1990 900 3 dr RIP, 1985 900 2 dr coupe RIP
1986 900 4 dr RIP 1976 99 2 dr RIP, 1977 99 5 dr RIP
1973 Sonett Gone but not forgotten
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  #6  
Old 20th March 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaabFT View Post

What's a DIC? Direct Ignition Cassette


SaabFT

Which OS are you using?


[QUOTE=srmoose;2164601]
I have been trying to reload my WIS (workshop information system) onto new computer without success.
QUOTE]
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  #7  
Old 20th March 2012
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Yea WIS will only work on windows xp or lower I think. It definitely works on xp, so I run it on xp mode in windows 7. And as far as your problem goes, it's most likely the head gasket. The 6 cylinders are such a pita.
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  #8  
Old 20th March 2012
srmoose srmoose is offline
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Vista 32 bit
I have tried running it in compatibility mode as well.
Everytime it stops loading at Copying File: C:\Windows\Font\Verdana.ttf and then it becomes unresponsive
when I close it it says NTVDM.EXE is not responding
I wish I could figure out how to skip this file or replace it.
I did try mounting the disk and the verdana/ttf on to magic iso (virtual disc) but it did not work either.
I just have a copy of the 9-5 1998-99 WIS that I got online as an RAR file.
I did get another full copy online but cant get it to work.
I just wish the one I paid for worked.
I started a thread last week
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=229108
( so that I am not hijacking)
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'01 9-5 Wagon 2.3. '00 9-5 Wagon 3.0, 1999 9-3 Conv.
1990 900 3 dr RIP, 1985 900 2 dr coupe RIP
1986 900 4 dr RIP 1976 99 2 dr RIP, 1977 99 5 dr RIP
1973 Sonett Gone but not forgotten
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  #9  
Old 21st March 2012
SaabFT SaabFT is offline
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The car is currently in the garage being looked at. Will post when I've learnt what the damage is! SaabFT.
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  #10  
Old 21st March 2012
SaabFT SaabFT is offline
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Diagnosis as follows - computer diagnostic showed slight inefficiency on the EGR. Besides that, nothing else found wrong with the car. Diesel cleaner was added just in case. It's possibly the EGR on its way out and/or sticking a bit, but shouldn't hurt the engine. I was told a new EGR would be 1000 new, so best find a second hand unit in the near future and figure in two hours labour costs. I'm hoping the cleaner does a good job and hopefully gets rid of the morning judders...anybody know if the EGR would be the same on the Vauxhall and/or Renault units?

SaabFT
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Last edited by SaabFT; 21st March 2012 at 05:32 PM.
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  #11  
Old 3rd September 2012
SaabFT SaabFT is offline
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Hi there,

Need some urgent advice...in relation to this post, my D308L went in for its M.O.T. and EGR replacement. Both went smoothly, but on the test run the mechanic got the EML on the dash and when reading the error code he said there was an issue with the turbo position sensor. This error didn't show when they were running the diagnostics when we suspected the EGR, but has popped up since the EGR has been replaced. I've tried to find a replacement sensor, but finding it impossible. The only other thing that I can think of is whether I can replace the sensor with one from either the Renault Espace/Val Satis, Vauxhall Signum/Vectra equivalent. The car is currently still in the workshop awaiting the part!

Thanks,

SaabFT.
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  #12  
Old 3rd September 2012
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Mike Brennan Mike Brennan is online now
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Saab Wis onto a new comouter with 64 bit.
I bought this guys version and it worked like a champ. It was amazing.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAAB-9-3-199...item2574894184
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  #13  
Old 4th September 2012
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Thanks, Mike. That was for the 9-3 but I found one for the 9-5, here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/SAAB-9-5-199...item25748941c9
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