US Auto Industry Glooms

[SaabKen]

We've heard this sad country song before, but this time the GF has already left and the dog has terminal illness

http://money.cnn.com/2008/06/19/news/companies/taylor_gm.fortune/?postversion=2008061909

Notable quote: "To fill it, GM could follow the Chrysler example and start selling off its non-earning assets like land, empty plants, and even underperforming brands like Hummer and Saab."

And some speculation from GMI on another GM division potentially facing the axe (Buick, GMC or Pontiac)

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f70/gmi-rumor-gm-cutting-another-division-65786/

Then you hop over to the GMI poll, that's where you see a good dose of polarization (and ignorance):

http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f89/gm-brand-s-do-you-think-should-get-chop-65790/#post1431055

[lancelot8602]

Maybe saab will follow jaguar, it would be nice is saab broke off from GM. Not sure how saab can do it financially though.

[TooMany2cvs]

Originally Posted by lancelot8602

Maybe saab will follow jaguar, it would be nice is saab broke off from GM. Not sure how saab can do it financially though.

Jaguar haven't "broken off" from Ford, they've been sold - with Land-Rover - to another giant industrial/car manufacturing conglomerate.

[lancelot8602]

my bad, I thought jag broke off, too bad; I like jaguars, ford really ruined them.

[SaabKen]

Originally Posted by lancelot8602

my bad, I thought jag broke off, too bad; I like jaguars, ford really ruined them.

Not far from the truth, tho' Jags did often "broke" but Land Rover was even worse.

[Bbmin7(b5)]

good! i hope GM sells SAAB. i dont care who to. anyone would do a better job than GM.

[TooMany2cvs]

Originally Posted by lancelot8602

my bad, I thought jag broke off, too bad; I like jaguars, ford really ruined them.

Hardly.

The real low-point in Jags history were through the 70s and 80s - the dire quality of the s2 XJ under British Playland, then the design lowpoint of the XJ40.

From Ford's purchase in '90, they had the cash to start to really improve - resulting in the X300 XJ, the XK8, now the ally XK. Sure, the S-type and X-type were/are thoroughly mediocre re-hashes of blandmobiles (although we were spared the Lincoln (LS?) the S-type was based on) - but the XF's a definite step up.

What's next? <shrug> Tata might have the money, but they can't technology-share, so the money's going to be needed - engines, for a start. Yes, the Jag v8 has moved on into other Fords, but it's not as if they don't have other options - and the TDV6 and TDV8 are Ford/PSA units.

[JeeperJay]

Originally Posted by TooMany2cvs

Jaguar haven't "broken off" from Ford, they've been sold - with Land-Rover - to another giant industrial/car manufacturing conglomerate.

Yup... Tata Motor Company of India.



*Hadn't noticed the post above mine*

[Route 17]

As I see it.

Buick – Phase out like Olds. But keep the brand name in China.
Chevrolet – Value Brand – Keep - Compete with Toyota, Honda. Re-badge the Buick Lucerne as the Chevrolet Caprice. “The Geezer Cruiser” to compete with Toyota Avalon. Change the Camaro to the Firebird. Chevy has the Corvette.
Hummer – “Thank GOD and Greyhound she’s finally Gone!” (an old Roy Clark country song). Kill the Brand do not sell it. Let there be dignity in its death.
Cadillac – Luxury Brand -Keep - Compete with Lexus, Infiniti. Caddy V-series to compete with BMW, Merc
GMC – Redundant with Chevy Trucks. Dump it.
Pontiac - and Holden - Make them corporate twins (badge engineering difference at most to save R&D) Make them the RWD Sport brand except Corvette but bring back the Firebird. Pontiac has to be diffrentiated from Chevy or there is no justification to keep the brand.
Saturn becomes Opel even in the US. GM’s Euro brand to compete with VW
I remenber when GM sold the Opel Kadett and the GT here in the States. Like Pontiac, Opel has to be diffrentiated from Chevy or there is no justification to keep the brand. Designed and Engineered in Germany. For the US market, build units that will be sold in the within US to hedge against currency exchange rates.
Saab – Global premium brand. The current strategy to use Opel platforms is a smart move. Compete with Audi, Acura (Example Next Gen Saab 9-5 vs. Acura RL, Saab 9-3 vs. Acura TSX)

So long Hummer, Buick, and GMC. Put Pontiac on the chopping block if the strategy with Holden doesn’t work.

It is nonsense to think that Saab could exists on its own.
It is too expensive for Saab to develop its own platforms. That is why Saab Alfa, and Lancia developed the platform that Saab used for the 9000. Saab would have to be sold to another company, if any one would have them, and the result may not be pretty. Nice cars but the company hasn't been profitable in years. Business is about making money. If you cannot make a return on investment then you are out of business. Maybe GM is comming out of its funk cloud and finally they have enough foresight to see all the way to the tip of their noses.

[TooMany2cvs]

Originally Posted by Route 17

Saab – Global ... brand.

That's the important detail, and one that many here seem to forget when it comes to pontificating on the future of Saab. The US is the biggest market, sure, but only takes roughly ONE QUARTER of all Saab production. That's based on the 2006 sales, which included the US-only 9-7x and 9-2x. So if you're looking at 9-3 and 9-5 sales, the US is probably around 20% of production.

It is nonsense to think that Saab could exists on its own.
It is too expensive for Saab to develop its own platforms.

Not just Saab. No low-volume manufacturer can stand alone, development costs are just too prohibitive. Saab make somewhere around 130,000 cars annually. The Citroen C1/Pug 107/Toyota Aygo sells roughly 300,000 cars per annum - yet is a joint-venture between two large manufacturers, using some components from other models in their ranges...

[ACBarnett]

If I was restructuring GM, this is how I'd do it:

Chevy: Work on improving build quality and adding more small cars to the lineup. Build the Volt and add more hybrids to the brand.

GMC: This brand is selling well and has a solid reputation for building a really good truck (or rebadged Chevy). It will be much easier to get the Chevy truck buyers to switch to "upmarket" GMC vehicles than it will be to get the new GMC buyers to move downmarket. Build trucks for all needs, and ocus on diesels/hybrids/diesel-hybrids.

Pontiac: The G8 is a great car, but it's about 15 years too late. A well-executed RWD V8 sedan in the 90's could have turned Pontiac's reputation around, but it was alot cheaper to sell supercharged Lumina's with plastic cladding on them and Pontiac's reputation is so thoroughly damaged that I think it's time to put the brand out of it's misery.

Saturn: If there was any GM brand that I could describe as "criminally mismanaged", it would be Saturn. They started out selling some of the most high-tech (space-frames, plastic bodypanels, and DOHC engines in an early 90's economy car) cars in their class, cars that were the closest that GM has ever gotten to beating Honda/Toyota at their own game. Saturn used to make hands-down the best basic transportation appliance of it's day but the cars started getting cheaper and Saturn lost enough of it's customer base for GM to totally revamp the brand. I like the idea of rebadged Opels though, and Saturn would be a great brand to replace Pontiac's role of a sportier and slightly upscale alternative to Chevy. If I were managing the company I'd work on turning Saturn into a VW/Nissan/Mazda fighter, an American small car for someone who would never before have thought of buying an American car.

Buick: There is nothing that Buick does that another brand can't do just as well. The Enclave could be easily replaced by a base-spec next generation SRX, the Lacrosse could be replaced by a premium-trim Impala, and the Lucerne buyers could be steered towards a lower-spec CTS.

Cadillac: GM needs to realize that the average sport luxury car buyer will never even think of buying an American car, and that Cadillac's best bet for increased sales is to stop trying to be the American BMW/Mercedes and instead try to be the American Lexus. Focus on things like improving reliability, decreasing NVH to Lexus-levels, and beating Lexus on the what you pay/what you get scale while trying as hard as possible to keep some soul in the cars. I'd axe the XLR and the DTS, rework the STS into a slightly smaller Lexus LS fighter, and start working on a production Cadillac Sixteen as a halo car that would offer Rolls-Royce size and amenities for S-class money. If GM could find the money, I'd replace the gap left by the XLR with a 4-seat convertible based on the STS or Sixteen that would appeal to the many fond memories of the big 4-seat convertibles of yore. Axe the V-series leaving the muscle cars to Chevy and the BMW-fighters to Saab.

Saab: This is GM's global sporting brand, with the brand history and reputation that it would take to compete with Audi, BMW, and Infiniti. Make the cars push the technological envelope the way they did through the 80's and 90's while tweaking the driver's experience until it meets or beats the best of the Germans. Keep the current planned 9-1/9-3/9-4x/9-5 model lineup and add in a Sonett Halo car to compete with the A5, 3-series coupe, and CLK. Bring back the SPG name and start building M/AMG competitors. If GM doesn't want to take Saab in this direction, sell it to someone who does.

Hummer: I can't wait to see what the Indians/Chinese do with this one.

[woywitka]

Originally Posted by lancelot8602

I like jaguars, ford really ruined them.

Hardly. lol

Before the purchase, Jag was doing brutal while producing brutal cars.

Ford buying Jag in an example of a good thing, best thing that ever happened.



It would be nice to see Saab sold off


Things are not looking good for the GM, I feel bad for all the people who have jobs with them.

[boon94]

Do GM's number of brands at this point even make a difference? Its not like each brand has its own platforms, just a couple of fender style changes on the outside. If they went DC style and had 4 cars on the same platform between two brands (compass, patriot, nitro, caliber)... (almost exactly the same in every single aspect except for the exterior bumpers)......
whats the difference between that and having those 4 cars split across 4 brands.... like what GM already does, I really cant imagine having these extra brands can be costing a whole lot more since they all are built on the same freaking platforms with different bumpers. Saabs are the only ones that have some niche exclusive features... The problem is that no one knows about them until they bought the car and have read the entire owners manual. The uniqueness of saabs arnt advertised at all, and so probably just seem as bland as any other GM car.. ex. Aura, or well equipped impala

Axe hummer anyways.

[900t]

IMO people are focusing too much on "brands" and I think it was a bad thing for GM to have done circa 1999 to have hired all those "brand" czars from Procter & Gamble (seriously the company called "Gamble"... WHO BUYS STOCK IN A COMPANY CALLED "GAMBLE"???!!!)

IMO the important thing in the car market is to have a good car. The car makes the brand and a good brand can get away with selling some crappy cars, but not very long.