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T7 delivery pipe

5K views 101 replies 15 participants last post by  Adrian W 
#1 ·
is there one available??
i know abbott has one for the T5 but i havent heard about one for the T7
 
#10 ·
At above 400hp the plastic stock delivery pipe shows no restriction.
And Nick at GenuineSaab pointed out that he had a decrease in power with a bigger delivery pipe on his Viggen at below 300hp.
So the delivery pipe is far from the first mod you should do, unless looks is all one is after:roll:
 
#11 ·
pade900 said:
At above 400hp the plastic stock delivery pipe shows no restriction.

That's because it isn't horsepower which would determine the useful limit. It's the air's velocity in the pipe which determines the restriction, and that is represented by RPM, and, to a lesser extent, VE.

Most of the time, with a turbo car, your power increases come from more boost. More boost increases the density of the air, but not its volume, so the velocity through the pipe remains the same.

I'm not suprised Nick saw a reduction in power either. T7 uses the MAF for most calculations, but the pressure sensor in that pipe is used for a few. If you increase the diameter of the pipe, the reduction in Bernoulli Effect will cause all the readings to be somewhat inaccurate, so those few calculations will be thrown off a bit.
 
#12 ·
Adrian W said:
That's because it isn't horsepower which would determine the useful limit. It's the air's velocity in the pipe which determines the restriction, and that is represented by RPM, and, to a lesser extent, VE.

Most of the time, with a turbo car, your power increases come from more boost. More boost increases the density of the air, but not its volume, so the velocity through the pipe remains the same.

I'm not suprised Nick saw a reduction in power either. T7 uses the MAF for most calculations, but the pressure sensor in that pipe is used for a few. If you increase the diameter of the pipe, the reduction in Bernoulli Effect will cause all the readings to be somewhat inaccurate, so those few calculations will be thrown off a bit.
I understand that...

But, Nick says: "We can overcome restriction on the pressure side by upping the boost. On the turbo inlet it is suction, which dramatically alters the compressor efficiency for the worse. This problem is easily solved with our new version MAF to Compressor pipe." So he clearly states there is a restriction on the pressure side which would include the delivery pipe.

I must be missing something in the reasoning here...
 
#14 · (Edited)
saabkid37 said:
yeah your missing the fact that the delivery pipe isnt on the suction side of the turbo, its air being pushed to the tb by the turbo. the main restriction is air filter to compressor until yu hit 400bhp
I get that but... He says there is a restriction on the pressure side to. That is fixed w/ more boost. So that says to me by eliminating the restriction on the pressure side you would get more power w/ the same boost levels. Do I have my sides mixed-up?
 
#16 ·
saabkid37 said:
post up the paragraph, ive read it but dont feel like finding it right now lol.
Here we go your lazyness. :lol:

"Stainless High flow intake pipe for 9-5 and 9-3 easily broaden the usable power of your turbo. Best gains with corresponding software. We can overcome restriction on the pressure side by upping the boost. On the turbo inlet it is suction, which dramatically alters the compressor efficiency for the worse. This problem is easily solved with our new version MAF to Compressor pipe. Mostly utilized over 270hp depending on model variant and application."
 
#20 ·
pade900 said:
At above 400hp the plastic stock delivery pipe shows no restriction.
And Nick at GenuineSaab pointed out that he had a decrease in power with a bigger delivery pipe on his Viggen at below 300hp.
So the delivery pipe is far from the first mod you should do, unless looks is all one is after:roll:
I remember Nick talking about this and what I remember him saying is the stock plastic delivery pipe did better because it did not heat soak as much as the metal larger delivery pipe. From what I gathered, he said he did lose hp, but he lost if because he felt the plastic was better at not heat-soaking and the metal pipe heat-soaked easier and caused the reduction in power.

Air density is huge and if the air is warmer, its expaned and thinner and less dense and the power levels will be less. Heat soak is the big enemy of ng900's, 9-3's and the like with the small engine bays and massive under-hood temps. I did notice my 9000 aero is much less prone to heat soak with the same power levels and I believe much of this is due to the size of the engine bay and the location of the delivery pipe that is farther away from the engine...

John
 
#21 ·
Adrian W said:
That's because it isn't horsepower which would determine the useful limit. It's the air's velocity in the pipe which determines the restriction, and that is represented by RPM, and, to a lesser extent, VE.

Most of the time, with a turbo car, your power increases come from more boost. More boost increases the density of the air, but not its volume, so the velocity through the pipe remains the same.

I'm not suprised Nick saw a reduction in power either. T7 uses the MAF for most calculations, but the pressure sensor in that pipe is used for a few. If you increase the diameter of the pipe, the reduction in Bernoulli Effect will cause all the readings to be somewhat inaccurate, so those few calculations will be thrown off a bit.
Yes, I'm aware of that.
Just to make it easy to understand what kind of power/mods we are talking about before there is a need to upgrade the deliverypipe.
 
#22 ·
John Z Williams said:
I remember Nick talking about this and what I remember him saying is the stock plastic delivery pipe did better because it did not heat soak as much as the metal larger delivery pipe. From what I gathered, he said he did lose hp, but he lost if because he felt the plastic was better at not heat-soaking and the metal pipe heat-soaked easier and caused the reduction in power.

Air density is huge and if the air is warmer, its expaned and thinner and less dense and the power levels will be less. Heat soak is the big enemy of ng900's, 9-3's and the like with the small engine bays and massive under-hood temps. I did notice my 9000 aero is much less prone to heat soak with the same power levels and I believe much of this is due to the size of the engine bay and the location of the delivery pipe that is farther away from the engine...

John
So a good sized delivery pipe w/ ceramic coating plus a little re-route to keep it further away from the engine could do wonders!
 
#23 · (Edited)
liketheword said:
I get that but... He says there is a restriction on the pressure side to. That is fixed w/ more boost. So that says to me by eliminating the restriction on the pressure side you would get more power w/ the same boost levels. Do I have my sides mixed-up?
In my case 375whp with 1.3bar of boost with the plastic T7 pipe.
Last time I had a look the pressure loss in the pressure side IC included was more or less negligible. Some datalogs will follow though.

and no, heat soak is not my enemy, it seems to be cured with an IC that works....
 
#25 ·
liketheword said:
I understand that...

But, Nick says: "We can overcome restriction on the pressure side by upping the boost. On the turbo inlet it is suction, which dramatically alters the compressor efficiency for the worse. This problem is easily solved with our new version MAF to Compressor pipe." So he clearly states there is a restriction on the pressure side which would include the delivery pipe.

I must be missing something in the reasoning here...

Or just missing something in the wording. Saying that "we can overcome restriction on the pressure side" doesn't necessarily imply that there is restriction there, only that, IF there is, we don't have to worry about it as much.

I doubt there's any significant restriction below 7,000 RPM no matter what the power level.
 
#26 ·
John Z Williams said:
Yea, heat soak is good for power....
dont really get what you mean, but as stated above. I do not have problems with heat soak in my car.

For instance there is alot of babble that once you have the car in a dyno you basically will get heat soaked no matter what if you dont have an army of fans infront of the car... Last time I had my car on rollers there was a normal size fan blowing in front of the car and temp difference between the max and min was during the dyno pull was a whopping 2deg C/ 15C over ambient. Lenght of the pull was 10s. Did a total of three pulls and the behiour in the intake temps is the same in all runs, thus the fact that the car was not cooled in between.

If only people would bother to measure their intake temps it would be alot more revieling how certain IC's work, but to base everyting around "i have a monster IC" does not really cut it...
 
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