I just got my stock (minus MBC and K&N) NG900 dyno'd yesterday, before I put full exhaust on, and so I was curious what others were pulling with full mods. For those of you who have dyno'd, list mods and the ratings that came with it cause I'm interested in knowing what has worked best for others.
By the way, mine pulled in at 160.4HP and 191 lb. ft. The torque measurement might not be quite accurate, since it's difficult to get a reading on our direct ignitions.
By the way, mine pulled in at 160.4HP and 191 lb. ft. The torque measurement might not be quite accurate, since it's difficult to get a reading on our direct ignitions.
Huh? Torque is torque dude no matter the ignition. Plus, HP is derived from torque and RPM. Did you mean HP might not be accurate? I could see maybe having a problem reading the rpm but tons of members here dyno without issue.
Your peak torque measurement should be the same regardles.
Here is my stage 5 with big t28 and my stage 6 with gt3071. Sae in Denver.
Stage 5 is 3" exhaust, 3" intake and larger big t28 turbo, larger ic, larger 50# injectors and the sw to run it. Around 28psi spike, holds 24psi.
Stage 6 is everything stage 5 is, but has larger gt3071 turbo and updated sw, this run was with water/methonal injection. Spike 28-29psi, held 25psi to 6k...
This is whp and wtrq, but in sae corrected in Denver. There is some debate as to how accurate sae at elevation numbers are. Done on a dynojet. Some say cut cf in half. That would have been 294whp for stage 5 and 365whp for stage 6.....
I think you have to get the exhaust and ic done first to help keep the intake temps down so you can safely add more boost! I recommend doing that first, then upgrading with sw or mbc, but with mbc you can only get to 15.5psi before fuel cut. A simple stage 3 will hit 20-23psi of boost
John
John, wouldn't it tiring to drive the car with the power coming so late in the RPM range? I understand it's a 2.0, so it will rev easier and keep the power up till the redline, but do you really enjoy revving it up like that in everyday driving?
Back to the topic, here's my 2.3 with a Viggen turbo at 15-16 psi of boost - 246 whp/309 wtq or about 280 hp/350 ft-lbs at the crank:
John, wouldn't it tiring to drive the car with the power coming so late in the RPM range? I understand it's a 2.0, so it will rev easier and keep the power up till the redline, but do you really enjoy revving it up like that in everyday driving?
Back to the topic, here's my 2.3 with a Viggen turbo at 15-16 psi of boost - 246 whp/309 wtq or about 280 hp/350 ft-lbs at the crank:
Yea, the bigger the turbo, the longer you have to wait for big power. That is why I just built and installed a b234r motor, its much more fun to drive as a daily driver on the streets I have full boost of 28psi by 2700rpm in 5th gear, 3200rpm in 4th and 33-3500rpm in third.
Another point is I am at 5500' in Boulder, cars generally spool-up around 500rpm later anyway, even the stock set-ups do....
The thing is even though the 2.0 motor was not reaching full boost and torque until 4500rpm in third gear, it was at 10psi by 3000rpm and still making more power and torque and was faster than a stock set-up. Once you feel 350whp and 400wtrq, its worth the wait in my opinion, but I tell you the 2.3 motor is much more user friendly in the street aplication
A 2.0 motor usually spools-up around 500rpm later than a 2.3 motor, you make 300wtrq at 3400rpm, I made it at 4000rpm on my 2.0 motor, around a 600rpm difference, so with elevation factored in, that is not too bad. The thing is you made max torque at 3400rpm, I made it at 4500rpm, that is why I wanted a 2.3 motor and now reach full boost by 3500rpm in third gear:cheesy:
Huh? Torque is torque dude no matter the ignition. Plus, HP is derived from torque and RPM. Did you mean HP might not be accurate? I could see maybe having a problem reading the rpm but tons of members here dyno without issue.
Your peak torque measurement should be the same regardles.
Well, where I had it dyno'd at didn't have experience in dyno-ing a car with direct ignition, but they did still manage to hook it up to the wires that plug into the cartridge. However, during the dyno, when the rpm got into the 4s or 5s maybe, the reading went nuts and bounced all over the place. My first reading for torque was a 197 and I thought that was crazy, followed by a couple 180s and then the 191. But either way, is the torque that's given from a dyno run including the same 15% loss as the horsepower reading? I wasn't clear on this...but right now I'm assuming no, based on all the readings I've been given, but since the NG900 is originally rated at 197, it does seem farfetchd.
I don't remember the name..maybe dynojet? I forget.
John Z Williams said:
I think you have to get the exhaust and ic done first to help keep the intake temps down so you can safely add more boost! I recommend doing that first, then upgrading with sw or mbc, but with mbc you can only get to 15.5psi before fuel cut. A simple stage 3 will hit 20-23psi of boost
Yeah, that's what I'm planning on doing, actually. I just got my full 3" JT today, and after that I was planning on the Forge intercooler, and then a drive down to Springfield for the ECU. And unless my boost gauge is inaccurate, I'm hitting 18psi now before it starts sinking. My boost cut was coming a few past that. Also, I'm not sure what 'sw' refers to. Thank you though.
Thanks for all the hits on everyone else's cars, I'll be referring back to this post in the future for more reference. Should be useful for anyone else with the same questions as me. I'm not new to cars, just the Saab itself, so thanks for the help.
Yea, that confuses some of the dyno shops, but its one wire on the di, they have to seperate it from all the others and clip to the blue and green wire I think. There are only six wires, one of them is the right one
GT28RS and GT3071 in the same plot.
GT28RS with 1.0bar max boost, GT3071 with 1.3bar max.
dyno strain in alot less than what the car sees on the road and therefore the low end looks much worse than it is.
dyno waked-up compared to road >500rpm difference.
Yeah, that's what I heard quite awhile ago..but yet my gauge is saying about 18-19. Even before I threw the boost gauge on, the stock meter would go up to about 3/4 through the red before it cut.
Hmm...maybe. But I just realized that I have my boost gauge cutting into the MAP sensor rather than the bov, so I'm planning on fixing that tomorrow. Maybe I'll get a more accurate reading after doing that. Thanks though.
Sorry for being late to the party on this dyno discussion.
From my personal experience with two different Dynojet brand dynos on several different occasions, as well as from what I've read from many other posters on several Saab boards, I can say that the Dynojet dynos are notorious for not being able to pick up the RPM signal.
They're supposed to be able to get it, but it seems that often their sensors for low voltage signals just aren't sensitive enough.
As Tboy said, all dynos actually measure torque, then calculate horsepower based on torque and RPM. But apparently the Dynojet dyno does the calculation based on the speed at which their "rolling road" is turning, presenting the HP as though it was the actual measurement.
Then, if they can catch the RPM signal, they back the torque curve out using this equation:
HP = Torque * RPM / 5252
(or)
Torque = HP * 5252 / RPM
You can download the Dynojet run viewer from their web site, and get your data files from the dyno shop. One of the variables the Dynojet dyno measures is speed. The gear ratios are known, so the engine RPM can be calculated from the speed.
Then you could make an Excel spreadsheet to back out the torque curve. (As my old thermo professor used to say, "This small task is left as an excercise for the student.")
There's a clever guy by the name of Drew who posts on here sometimes, and I think he may have posted some torque curves he calculated this way.
I'm surprised no one else mentioned this shortcoming of the Dynojet brand dyno.
From my personal experience with two different Dynojet brand dynos on several different occasions, as well as from what I've read from many other posters on several Saab boards, I can say that the Dynojet dynos are notorious for not being able to pick up the RPM signal.
They're supposed to be able to get it, but it seems that often their sensors for low voltage signals just aren't sensitive enough.
We actually tried that once, with mixed results. Removed the DIC and made short spark plug wires to extend from the DIC to the plugs, then latched on to the #1 plug wire. It worked half the time.
Haha yeah, I wish someone did. I might've felt a lot less stupid a lot less sooner. Thanks for the insight on that, I'll have to let them know next time I go dyno because I was planning on doing it sometime in the very near future, since I now have exhaust. Thanks.
the first time I dyno'd (with MBC,stock HOT ECU, filter, and stock exhaust) I did it on a dynojet @ f1dyno in Maine. they were able to get the rpm signal right off the harness.
that time out, I got something like 228HP and 255lb/ft.
next time out was with stock ECU, MBC, Filter, and 3" exhaust, but on a mustang Dyno. they were not able to catch the RPM signal, BUT were able to run the dyno by syncing the dyno and car up @ 3k RPM, and working from there.
no RPM signal needed. That time out, I got 233HP and 232Ft/lb. Mustangs are notorious for reading lower HP than dynojets.
last time I went out was after installing my SQR ECU. Same mustang dyno, and no changes other than ECU, I pulled 231HP and 232lb/ft.
the first time I dyno'd (with MBC,stock HOT ECU, filter, and stock exhaust) I did it on a dynojet @ f1dyno in Maine. they were able to get the rpm signal right off the harness.
that time out, I got something like 228HP and 255lb/ft.
next time out was with stock ECU, MBC, Filter, and 3" exhaust, but on a mustang Dyno. they were not able to catch the RPM signal, BUT were able to run the dyno by syncing the dyno and car up @ 3k RPM, and working from there.
no RPM signal needed. That time out, I got 233HP and 232Ft/lb. Mustangs are notorious for reading lower HP than dynojets.
last time I went out was after installing my SQR ECU. Same mustang dyno, and no changes other than ECU, I pulled 231HP and 232lb/ft.
Holy crap. 228 and 255 is a lot for stock minus the MBC etc. Is that whp?
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