Front mounted intercooler Full install with instuctions [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Front mounted intercooler Full install with instuctions


guitarguydudeperson34
01-04-07, 11:55 PM
just finished the FMIC install. took all day but it was fun. heres a link to my cardomain page with full instructions for anyone who wants to do it.

the only hard part was fitting the piping to the turbo... you can get to it from where you fit your oil filter. good luck!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2499881/5 (http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2499881/4)

Kermit
02-04-07, 04:25 AM
Very nice work fella. :cool:

stipud
02-04-07, 11:19 AM
That's probably the best job i've seen on these cars. Well done.

Etrimble
02-04-07, 11:20 AM
Very nice job, great to have a pic tutorial! :D

guitarguydudeperson34
02-04-07, 12:09 PM
yea i've heard a lot of people wanted to do it but needed more info. i think all together the job costs about 330 dollars. everything off ebay.

Martin_9-5t
02-04-07, 01:02 PM
Good work.

Almost exactly the same setup as mine.

robw
02-04-07, 03:45 PM
Excellent write up guitarguy..... (your user name is toooo long :p)
Thanks for the contribution to the boards. ;)

Blunny
03-04-07, 06:50 AM
Well done, that is inspiring!

99SAAB9-3
03-04-07, 04:23 PM
Where did you get the piping and what's the diameter?

I'll do this same time I replace my turbo next weekend :)

guitarguydudeperson34
03-04-07, 06:11 PM
i got the piping off ebay. it's 2.5" just search for turbo or intercooler piping

dudethatsnowboards
03-04-07, 11:54 PM
hey! someone already did that to my car

guitarguydudeperson34
04-04-07, 12:03 AM
good for you

SectorNine50
04-04-07, 10:58 PM
Haha christ, what an ending to a thread... :lol:

Hey, I have a question for anyone here that might know: Does the TD-04 turbo use bigger piping? If yes, what size? And also, does going from 2" to 2.5" cause any pressure loss problems?

Have you noticed any gains guitarguy?

I have this nervous feeling that putting on a IC that is smaller than the stock one will cause a loss in power and efficiency... Can someone please prove me wrong... please? lol

j006
04-04-07, 11:24 PM
I have this nervous feeling that putting on a IC that is smaller than the stock one will cause a loss in power and efficiency... Can someone please prove me wrong... please? lol
I agree with SectorNine50. I desperately want to install a FMIC, but the install seems almost prohibitive to an extent; what I mean is, the ICs that most people are using for this are around 20"x6"x3" or so, which is actually pretty d@mn small as far as surface area goes. I think I may be in the minority by saying this but I WANT my IC to be seen, plus there is a huge benefit in having it ahead of the AC condenser/radiator sandwich where it is now in the stock location. It seems silly to get a big drop in and mount it back behind everything in the stock location. Obviously the best solution would be to take that big ETS IC from genuinesaab and mount it up front, but there's little room without cutting and/or refabbing brackets for pretty much EVERYTHING up there.
I've got the '04 Aero front end, so I've got some room to play with width-wise, but not height-wise really. Oh and BTW I'm not keen on installing a front mount and leaving the stock IC in or even cutting the core out JUST to retain usage of the mounting brackets. If I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it right. Cheers.

SectorNine50
05-04-07, 12:15 AM
I agree with SectorNine50. I desperately want to install a FMIC, but the install seems almost prohibitive to an extent; what I mean is, the ICs that most people are using for this are around 20"x6"x3" or so, which is actually pretty d@mn small as far as surface area goes. I think I may be in the minority by saying this but I WANT my IC to be seen, plus there is a huge benefit in having it ahead of the AC condenser/radiator sandwich where it is now in the stock location. It seems silly to get a big drop in and mount it back behind everything in the stock location. Obviously the best solution would be to take that big ETS IC from genuinesaab and mount it up front, but there's little room without cutting and/or refabbing brackets for pretty much EVERYTHING up there.
I've got the '04 Aero front end, so I've got some room to play with width-wise, but not height-wise really. Oh and BTW I'm not keen on installing a front mount and leaving the stock IC in or even cutting the core out JUST to retain usage of the mounting brackets. If I'm gonna do it I'm gonna do it right. Cheers.
That's exactly what I think. However, I really have to wonder, how much of an impact would a huge intercooler in front of the A/C condenser be on the A/C system? I still want to retain the very cool air of the A/C that I love about this car, but I also want the performance, that was part of the reason I really wanted to install an under-the-bumper FMIC. If we did the drop-in replacement, I could see how it would create a much more efficient system that would still allow for the A/C to do it's job. Plus, when I'm demanding power, I never have the A/C on anyway. How much damage to air flow can the A/C condenser really do to the IC?

Sorry if that seemed out of order and confusing, I'm kinda just throwing out points and questions.

Getmeasaab
05-04-07, 03:14 AM
well done dude.. and on behalf of everyone on the forum, thanks for taking the time out to explain all the steps.. awesome!!

DoctorPhill
05-04-07, 10:02 AM
Just like the gauge pod you are very good and precise!
Well done,do you find big difference in performance now?:cheesy:

Jssaab
05-04-07, 10:57 AM
That's exactly what I think. However, I really have to wonder, how much of an impact would a huge intercooler in front of the A/C condenser be on the A/C system? .

Not much, the IC really only needs to cool ambient air, the AC compressor makes heat that needs to be removed by the ac cooler

If we did the drop-in replacement, I could see how it would create a much more efficient system that would still allow for the A/C to do it's job. Plus, when I'm demanding power, I never have the A/C on anyway. How much damage to air flow can the A/C condenser really do to the IC?
.

I have the drop in and the heat sink is terrible on a hot day around town WITH THE AC ON ONLY! I have to say that loudly because so many peopel can't believe it. My car is set for 21 lbs boost. On a typical 90+ degree day with the AC on, on the highway it looses maybe one lb. On the slow roads/stop and go I have seen about 5 lb loss ( 16 lbs) not more. it takes about 5-7 minuites with the air off to return and less if you hit the highway.

I have seen no major difference with the AC off, no matter how hot ( up to 100) still 1 or 2 lbs less.

The drop-in is huge, so the area to dissipate is large. Oh yeah, I have the 2000 front end so I think that may affect it as well.

guitarguydudeperson34
05-04-07, 11:59 AM
ok first of all i have noticed a big difference after installing this. when i took it out for a test drive and hit the throttle i got an instant kick in power almost like a supercharger, its nice. and it now pulls all the way to redline which my puny lpt didn't really do before. it just snowed last night (damn it) but when it melts i'll do some whp tests, 1/4 mile runs and 0-60 runs and put it up against my numbers i did before and see if theres any changes.

i know the new one is smaller but think of the differences; the stock one is behind a whole bunch of crap thus hindering its ability to disipate heat. it also has a 90 degree turn in the piping goign to the throttle body. not a 90 degree bend like in the new piping. this turn can cause turbulence in the air exiting the IC thus causing a kind of block in the max flow possible through the piping. and we don't want that. the new one is right up front with nothing in front of it so the heat can be dissipated much easier as fresh air passes through it. from the pictures you can see the nice smooth bends in piping thus allowing the air to flow freely through the IC and not slowing down. this size IC, although smaller, is able to keep up with a lot of power. i will upgrade to a bigger size, maybe 11 inch instead of 6, if i go for like 400+ hp eventually (i wish haha).

and as j006 said its ahead of the hot ac compressor now. so no hot air from that is passing over the IC now. also i think that leaving the stock IC in place is a good idea. for one it's a lot easier than taking it out and making new brackets, second this adds to the weight over the front wheels which is good to reduce wheel spin on our FWD babies. the new FMIC system, however, only weighs about 30 pounds total. if you do keep the stock one, shove a towel in the ends so no crap gets in if you want to sell it and/or return to stock (for some crazy reason).

plus it looks bad ars!

guitarguydudeperson34
05-04-07, 12:01 PM
oh yea i have the 2000 fornt end too and it actually comes about an inch below it. can't notice it though once completly installed. i want an 04 or aftermarket one :cry:. all donations welcome! :cheesy:

99SAAB9-3
05-04-07, 02:17 PM
I don't think the size of the intercooler will make a difference compared to stock. Take a look at teh 9-3's, including the viggen, they have the same turbos as the 9-5's, especially the LPT and they have much smaller intercoolers. The width of the stock intercooler is also nowhere near 3 inches and really close to the radiator.

j006
05-04-07, 03:05 PM
ok not in this thread, but in another FMIC thread that I can't seem to find, someone was saying that they had installed a small front-mount and that the outlet temps were crazy low compared to the stock IC and even still much lower compared to the forge drop in unit. I haven't seen any hard data comparison b/t the forge, ETS, and the small front-mount but this is really what we need to end this discussion. Don't know if we will ever have that luxury. Nick is one of the few that may be able to do this test but every time I talk to him he's not a big fan of the FMIC, since he says it's too small to be effective. Others here have stated quite the contrary though. Of course, Nick sells the Forge and ETS units so go figure.
Also, denmaster (who seems MIA due to the subframe brace failures), fatship, and maybe KKAero have done a much larger FMIC; KKAero did a custom fabbed one with his '04 Aero front bumper, which is what I was hoping to do. I'm gonna PM him to see what the dimensions of that one was...

KKAero
05-04-07, 04:21 PM
Hi,

I don't have the exact dimensions available right here, but to simplify:

- core width = exactly the "rectangular" opening of the MY04-05 Aero front bumper
- core height = 160 mm
- total width including end tanks and outlet piping = less than 10 mm shy of the width between the inner parts of the foglights...

It was tight, but it looked damn good and worked beautifully.

I've been looking for pics of the install, but haven't found them yet.

Best regards,

KK

SectorNine50
05-04-07, 05:23 PM
oh yea i have the 2000 fornt end too and it actually comes about an inch below it. can't notice it though once completly installed. i want an 04 or aftermarket one :cry:. all donations welcome! :cheesy:
So I bet with the Aero lip it would clear the IC perfectly.

guitarguydudeperson34
06-04-07, 08:35 PM
yea, wanna buy it for me? :cheesy:

SectorNine50
06-04-07, 08:50 PM
yea, wanna buy it for me? :cheesy:
Haha nope! I have my own thank you very much! :cheesy:

MI-Roger
06-04-07, 09:23 PM
Did you remove the original intercooler, or leave it in place sandwiched between the A/C condensor and radiator?

guitarguydudeperson34
06-04-07, 09:40 PM
left it for added weight over the wheels

paolo
07-04-07, 06:24 PM
G Dude,
What model Godspeed intercooler is this? and what made you go for the one you did?

Dont Godspeed have 2.75 inch inlets/outlets or is yours 2.5?

Tell me more about what 'benefits' youve felt since fitting.
Cheers
P

guitarguydudeperson34
08-04-07, 01:21 AM
it's the type-M intercooler. i went for that one cuz of the price and the size. that size will be able to attach straight to the bumper. if you go bigger you have to mount it behind the bumper and that takes some bracket fabrication which i didn't feel like doing. they have 2.75 inch outlets but a 2.5 inch silicone coupler fits perfectly without a lot of pushing to get it on.

basically it performs like it 20 degrees F out all the time now. when it's cold (like it was today i feel very little change. except a little more responce) but the warmer it is outside, the more change you feel from before the installation.

99SAAB9-3
08-04-07, 04:54 PM
When I look at the intercooler pipe kits on e-bay, none of them have the beads on the end. If you can PM me the seller than would be great.

Thanks!!

guitarguydudeperson34
08-04-07, 09:45 PM
this is the auction i bought:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=250093846073
i used 3 out of the 6 pipes

99SAAB9-3
17-04-07, 12:45 AM
Hey guitarguydudeperson34, what's the flow rating (CFM) on that intercooler?
I wish we could take before and after temp reading from just after teh intercooler.

guitarguydudeperson34
17-04-07, 12:57 PM
dunno all it says is it supports 450 horses.

99SAAB9-3
17-04-07, 01:51 PM
Hmm, sounds like an ~800CFM intercooler.

SectorNine50
17-04-07, 02:03 PM
I'm curious to see if you notice any heat soak when it starts getting warm, I want to do an upgrade like this but am nervous... :o

99SAAB9-3
17-04-07, 02:11 PM
I'll be installing my front mount intercooler this weekend.

Sector9, You will get a lot less heat soak on a front mount that on something mounted 1/2 inch from the radiator :)

SectorNine50
17-04-07, 02:22 PM
I guess that's true, I'm just curious how the different shape intercooler would handle the heat, but I'm guessing that's probably true, much better than stock.

guitarguydudeperson34
17-04-07, 07:05 PM
i did some hp runs yesturday when it was 50 out and i got 170 whp avg. = 189 crank... i did runs when it was 10 degrees f out in the winter and i got 191 crank hp on the stock IC. and last fall when it was around 50 out i got 158 whp best so 175.5 crank hp on stock IC. so i think it's making a difference.

socrazy2992
22-04-07, 08:58 AM
just finished the FMIC install. took all day but it was fun. heres a link to my cardomain page with full instructions for anyone who wants to do it.

the only hard part was fitting the piping to the turbo... you can get to it from where you fit your oil filter. good luck!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2499881/5

could you send me a link to where you got your front mount cuz im having a little trouble. thx

guitarguydudeperson34
22-04-07, 03:46 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120094394397

99SAAB9-3
22-04-07, 07:27 PM
Is anyone interested in a full front mount intercooler kit? I can have a direct bolt on kit that come complete with silicone hoses from the turbo to replace all factory ones. This kit would go for ~$350. Currently in the works but should be ready in a month. I also have the same kit that will be available with a delivery pipe so from the turbo to a new from mount IC to the throttle body, all 2.5 in and silicone hoses for ~$500.

socrazy2992
24-04-07, 10:49 PM
alright one question the third piece of 90 degree alluminum pipe. i looked at their products and all they have is kits with 2 90 degree alumminum pipes. i dont want to spend more than i need buying to kits. let me correct myself i dont even need a kit i just need the 90's and thats it.

guitarguydudeperson34
25-04-07, 03:30 PM
yea you just need 3 90 degree bends that are long on one side and the silicone couplings. thats what i used from the kit i bought. good to have extra incase you over cut though.

socrazy2992
25-04-07, 04:22 PM
could you give me a link or something to where you got them cuz i cant find them with more then one piece.

guitarguydudeperson34
26-04-07, 11:07 AM
the ebay company i got the kit from is just-intercoolers listed here: http://stores.ebay.com/Just-Intercoolers_Piping-Kits_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ4QQftidZ2QQtZkm
they don't have the 2.5" kit i bought right now, they have it in 2.25 and 2.75 as you can see, but they will soon. i had to wait acouple days before they had one when i bought it. i guess you could search for 2.5" 90 degree piping and pay possibly a little bit extra for the parts individually if you want it now. good luck.

99SAAB9-3
26-04-07, 01:53 PM
You know, I got this kit and with all the parts there, it's still impossible to make a the IC piping without something getting in the way. Yes you can get it sone, but you need a lot more right angles to do it properly. I'm having to get a second kit to get all the angles correct.

socrazy2992
26-04-07, 04:44 PM
nvm i finally found a site that had the longer 90 degree bends in 2.5". thx by the way. i bought the intercooler coouple days ago the only hard part about this whole thing was find those 90's. but anyhow i should have all the piping and couplings purchased by next week so hopefully ina couple weeks i can start on this project.

SectorNine50
26-04-07, 06:54 PM
the ebay company i got the kit from is just-intercoolers listed here: http://stores.ebay.com/Just-Intercoolers_Piping-Kits_W0QQcolZ4QQdirZ1QQfsubZ4QQftidZ2QQtZkm
they don't have the 2.5" kit i bought right now, they have it in 2.25 and 2.75 as you can see, but they will soon. i had to wait acouple days before they had one when i bought it. i guess you could search for 2.5" 90 degree piping and pay possibly a little bit extra for the parts individually if you want it now. good luck.
I was looking at him too, heard great things about their intercoolers. Their figures look very good too.

guitarguydudeperson34
26-04-07, 08:33 PM
You know, I got this kit and with all the parts there, it's still impossible to make a the IC piping without something getting in the way. Yes you can get it sone, but you need a lot more right angles to do it properly. I'm having to get a second kit to get all the angles correct.

wanna post some pics of your install when done? im curious to see what you did that needs more piping. did you completely take out the rubberish pipe connecting to the delivery pipe?

SectorNine50
15-07-07, 05:47 PM
Just installed my FMIC yesterday, and wow I love it to death! Now I can use my A/C without losing every bit of power AND it runs like it's 60 degrees outside when it's 90! I can't even imagine what it's going to run like in the winter months! :cool:

I bought this intercooler from a guy named "just-intercoolers" per a recommendation from an Audi buddy of mine who is a member of a forum that has had great success with his intercoolers. For $100 shipped, it is absolutely amazing the performance I am getting from this intercooler. This is the IC I bought for my Aero:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=250138196908&rd=1,1

I also bought the piping through him, very good quality stuff!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=250138501729&rd=1,1

I highly recommend this to anyone doing an IC upgrade that doesn't want running their A/C in hot weather to affect their power. Also, this IC sets me up perfectly for going stage 3! :cheesy:

Thanks guitarguydudeperson34 for that write-up. It helped greatly! But I have a couple additions to make:

-I didn't have to drill my bumper! The mounts on my IC lined up perfectly with a few pre-drilled holes for the horns that were unnecessary so I used those. I got 2 90 degree brackets from Home Depot along with a couple longer bolts, 4 washers, and nylon lock nuts. I then drilled the bracket to fit the holes and the intercooler where I wanted it, and then mounted it up! Works BRILLIANTLY! The intercooler is VERY solidly mounted to the bumper without any drilling.

-Also, if you get a 90 degree coupling that goes from 2" to 2.5" (If you use 2.5" piping, but in my opinion, there is no reason to go to bigger piping since the IC inlet and outlet are 2", it'll make the turbo spool that much faster since there is less piping to charge.) instead of going with a 2" to 2.5" coupling and then connecting a 90 degree on to that you can get it on the turbo much easier. I too had a rough time with getting the pieces on the turbo, but stay with it, you'll get it. I loosened a few things including the radiator to make it so I had some more room to move around.

-I also had some oil in some piping right before the delivery pipe and I'm curious as to why. Is this a bad sign? It seems that everyone that has done it has experienced this same thing.

Chris 9-5
15-07-07, 05:51 PM
There seems to always be some oil residue in the pipes!:confused:

Well done on the instal ;)