engine options [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: engine options


Sap
23rd March 2007, 07:54 PM
so i've got to fix the engine on my viggen, what would you guys do in my place( no compression on #2 cyclinder, probably the piston ring and a bad bore ). My mechanic tells me he can get a brand new b234 block with a warrenty for 3200 cnd( there would be a core exchange but they want a 9000 block not the 9-5 one). Then around 18 hours of labour plus the price of a new gasket set etc... I figure it would add up to about 5k for the job. Seems like alot since used 9000 engines are about 800 bucks. another options would be to take the head off and check if the bores are still ok then try pistons, sure it would be way less expensive but wouldn't it only be a temporary fix? Any other ideas? i mean, its obvious the b234 block is better so i want to use that for sure, a used 9-5 engine would run around 2500 bucks and it would have all the problems of the 9-5 engine.

PMI
23rd March 2007, 09:07 PM
Since the Viggen is a fairly unique car, I would probably try to repair or rebuild the engine, and keep it close to stock, assuming the block and the head are essentially intact.

mike saunders
24th March 2007, 12:15 AM
Two options present themselves:


-- Rebuild the engine with forged pistons
-- Swap out the old block with a B234 block that has been refreshed with new bearings, seals, chain, etc...


I wouldn't put in another B235R, or rebuild the existing one with stock components, as you just spend a lot of money to get an engine that's no stronger than stock, and is actually weaker than the two options mentioned above.

earthworm
24th March 2007, 12:48 AM
Zero compression on one cylinder ?
This could be a hole on the piston, not necessarily worn out rings.
At one time, this was automatically badly burned valves...
What did the second test show(after squirting oil in the cylinders) ??

Sap
24th March 2007, 11:38 AM
Since the Viggen is a fairly unique car, I would probably try to repair or rebuild the engine, and keep it close to stock, assuming the block and the head are essentially intact.

my aim is to improve on the flaws of the b235 block by replacing it with the b234, ensuring me a trouble free future( in terms of sludge )...

What did the second test show(after squirting oil in the cylinders) ??

the shop didn't do any secondary tests that i'm aware of. They didn't take the head off to inspect anything. The bad rings are an assumption but i don't really want them to start charging me labour just to take off the head.



-- Rebuild the engine with forged pistons
-- Swap out the old block with a B234 block that has been refreshed with new bearings, seals, chain, etc...

I wouldn't put in another B235R, or rebuild the existing one with stock components, as you just spend a lot of money to get an engine that's no stronger than stock, and is actually weaker than the two options mentioned above.

my mechanics argument against options 2 was because the 9000 blocks are atleast 10 years old at this point and getting a used one then putting new bearings wouldn't be close to buying a "new" block with a warrenty.

PMI
24th March 2007, 11:54 AM
my aim is to improve on the flaws of the b235 block by replacing it with the b234, ensuring me a trouble free future( in terms of sludge )...With no disrespect, sludge is not a function of the block. It is more common on b205 and b235 engines but there are other differences between the cars, like the type of PCV system, the turbo (which heats the oil more than the engine), the oil cooler, the ecu, and so on.

For one thing, the older PCV system burns all the vented fumes and gasses in the engine, while the newer system tries to condense and recirculate oil into the crankcase. That is nice for meeting ever stricter emissions, but not so good for the oil and the engine. Oil is not formulated to be mixed with condensed crankcase fumes for a few thousand miles without some ill effects.

Sap
24th March 2007, 12:35 PM
With no disrespect, sludge is not a function of the block. It is more common on b205 and b235 engines but there are other differences between the cars, like the type of PCV system, the turbo (which heats the oil more than the engine), the oil cooler, the ecu, and so on.

For one thing, the older PCV system burns all the vented fumes and gasses in the engine, while the newer system tries to condense and recirculate oil into the crankcase. That is nice for meeting ever stricter emissions, but not so good for the oil and the engine. Oil is not formulated to be mixed with condensed crankcase fumes for a few thousand miles without some ill effects.

i would think i'm more prone to sludging since we have very cold winters in ottawa and most of my trips are faily short (10-15 mins). I just don't want to fix the engine and then deal with the sludge later on, the b234 block seems like it will solve that problem for just a little more then a used 9-5 engine. I'm open to all idea's and suggestions thou, knowledge is power!

Viggen Dave
24th March 2007, 12:42 PM
What PMI is saying is that it's not the B235 block that is prone to sludging, it's other parts of the entire B235 configuration, such as the PCV setup and the proximity of the cat to the oil pan.

Therefore, changing out the block and leaving the ancillary systems the same will not reduce the chances of sludging.

My understanding is that the pistons in the B234, and possibly also the crank and bearings, are tougher in the B234. Your engine would be more rugged, but if it sludges and you lose lubrication, it will still be toast.

liketheword
24th March 2007, 01:18 PM
To get your head wrapped around the whole sludging issue much reading is in order. Check out the main page on this issue: http://www.andrewsofprinceton.com/service/index.cfm

Also, check out Chuck Andrews articals: http://www.andrewsofprinceton.com/service/chucks9s.cfm

The b234 block does have a better oil pump setup. That is often overlooked by people addressing the sludging issue..



(http://www.andrewsofprinceton.com/service/index.cfm)

radare
24th March 2007, 05:33 PM
You'll likely be able to run standard sized pistons in the B234 as even the highest mileage versions I've seen, haven't required an overbore. This will open up some options for you when looking for aftermarket internals.

John Z Williams
25th March 2007, 12:48 AM
b234r blocks are awesome. I bought a used short block for 350.00 bucks, I had my machine shop check it out and it basically had no wear! He said the rings were not even all the way broken in yet. I had it all speced out and replaced the rod and main bearings, new rings with a hone job and its basically a new engine. These blocks are very strong and even if they are 10 years old, a great 10 yr old bullet proof block with a good working oil pump system and stronger pistons is better than a weaker newer block in my opinion. I am loving my new 2.3 motor in my ng900, it rocks!

John

Sap
25th March 2007, 07:18 PM
john how much did it cost you to restore the block after u purchased it. Also when u buy the block do the pistons and everything else come with it? what exactly needs to be replaced due to wear.