9-3SC XWD - where art thou ? [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: 9-3SC XWD - where art thou ?


SaabKen
5th March 2007, 03:18 PM
You are 7 years late into the game :cry: Please hurry so my family won't be tempted to look to a used XC70 as a second family car

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/05/geneva-motor-show-2008-volvo-xc70-unveiled-a-day-early/
(http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/05/geneva-motor-show-2008-volvo-xc70-unveiled-a-day-early/)

AnF_Saab
5th March 2007, 05:22 PM
Meh, it's no audi allroad... but since we can't get the new one over here guess it's the next best thing. (Hurts to say but after reviewing the pictures, think the Volvo is actually better looking :confused: )

1985 Gripen
5th March 2007, 09:30 PM
The new XC70 comes standard with the Volvo BLIS (Blind Spot Information System)? That's a marvelous safety feature I wish SAAB would come out with (http://www.saabhistory.com/2006/12/16/interactively-gm-develops-cars-with-sixth-sense/).

http://www.saabhistory.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/217078.jpg

SaabKen
6th March 2007, 01:59 AM
What is that yellow light beside the mirror control ? Is that some kind of Saab prototype of the BLIS ?

Aaron Gilbert
6th March 2007, 02:18 AM
I like the exterior styling a lot, though I still feel the 'new' tail light look is a lot worse than the old 850/V70 wagon rear end. It's improving. I don't at all see the point of those reflectors on the bottom corners of the rear bumper. The interior looks nice, but that giant video screen coming out of the top looks like *****. Let's hope Volvo made it power retractable so it will go back flush. And for god's sake, STOP using blue for the intruments and putting silver on the dash!!!!!! Seriously, now that more and more manufacturers are using LED's for instrument and other dash illumination, why don't they leave the color choice up to the consumers? It would be so simple and inexpensive to put in multiple or color changing LED's so that the user could pick whichever color they want.

Aaron Gilbert
6th March 2007, 02:22 AM
What is that yellow light beside the mirror control ? Is that some kind of Saab prototype of the BLIS ?

If so, isn't that extremely redundant? Who's going to see the orange light and not see the car in the mirror?? As far as I am concerned, this is pandering to the lowest common denominator. Any driver with half a brain and care for anyone else on the road, is going to at LEAST check the mirrors before changing lanes. Although ideally, they will actually turn their head as well. If you adjust the side mirrors properly, there will be no blind spot anyhow. Cars will either be in your rear view mirror, in your side mirror, or ahead of you.

1985 Gripen
6th March 2007, 02:23 AM
What is that yellow light beside the mirror control ? Is that some kind of Saab prototype of the BLIS ?

Yes. Read the article at the link I included in the post with the pictures.

GM is working on the "V2V" (vehicle-to-vehicle) system where GM cars equipped with it communicate their GPS location, speed, and bearing through a Wi-Fi connection to each other, so if a car is about to merge into the other one's location it'll be warned.

IMHO this system seems overly complex compared to the Volvo BLIS (http://www.familycar.com/Future/VolvoSCC/VolvoSCC.htm). It would require both cars to be GM-manufactured and equipped with the system.

Even the Volvo BLIS seems a bit complex, using digital cameras. I would think they could just use the same type of system found in the bumper of parking assist systems (infrared) to warn if a car is in the blind spot. But I'm not a mechanical engineer, so what do I know?:roll:

1985 Gripen
6th March 2007, 02:31 AM
If so, isn't that extremely redundant? Who's going to see the orange light and not see the car in the mirror?? As far as I am concerned, this is pandering to the lowest common denominator. Any driver with half a brain and care for anyone else on the road, is going to at LEAST check the mirrors before changing lanes. Although ideally, they will actually turn their head as well. If you adjust the side mirrors properly, there will be no blind spot anyhow. Cars will either be in your rear view mirror, in your side mirror, or ahead of you.

Actually, every car has a "blind spot" which is a spot out of view of either the side mirror or the rear-view mirror. This is why SAABs in Europe have the bevelled side mirror (for some reason U.S. DOT doesn't allow it on the driver's side mirror), to try and take away some of the blind spot.

The yellow light tells you if there's a vehicle in your blind spot. The existence of the blind spot (or "dead spot") is why they teach you in drivers' training class to always look over your shoulder before changing lanes and not to rely solely on the mirrors.

I don't know how many times (actually, it even happened to me today) I've signalled a lane change, started to change lanes as I was glancing over my shoulder (I'm always in a hurry, I should look before starting the lane change) and seeing that there's a car in the next lane that didn't appear in the mirrors because it was in the blind spot. I then have to swerve back into the lane I was coming from. Ironically, today it was a Volvo that saw me coming and changed to another lane to avoid me cutting him off or running into him. I waved an apology as he went by.

It's very dangerous and happens quite often. Highway Patrol officers know of the blind spot and make use of it to purposely follow you in it so you don't know they're there. They're very good at it around here.

Matt88S
6th March 2007, 02:36 AM
If you're mirrors are adjusted properly there should be little or no blind spot.

Aaron Gilbert
6th March 2007, 02:39 AM
Actually, every car has a "blind spot" which is a spot out of view of either the side mirror or the rear-view mirror. This is why SAABs in Europe have the bevelled side mirror (for some reason U.S. DOT doesn't allow it on the driver's side mirror), to try and take away some of the blind spot.

This is not correct. If you adjust your side mirrors properly, there will be no spot in which a vehicle can be that it doesn't appear in one of your mirrors. All you have to do is adjust your side mirrors so that they look more to the side and less to the back. I do it this way: Put your head as close to the side window as possible. Adjust the mirror so that the side of your car is just barely visible on the inside edge in the mirror's field of view. Now lean over as far as you can to the opposite side of the car and do the same for the opposite side mirror. Now, you will observe that as a vehicle is overtaking you on either side, as soon as it leaves your center rear view mirror, it will appear in your side mirror. It will not leave your side mirror until the vehicle is fully at your side. At no point will the car ever be missing from one of the mirrors, unless it has passed you.

Now, very few people in the US are ever told or shown how to adjust their mirrors this way, and it's really a crime. Why do your side mirrors need to look straight down the side of the car?? They don't! Who needs to see where their own car is?? I have found at least one new car whose side mirrors cannot be adjusted outward at a large enough angle to make this completely possible, though you can still improve greatly from the middle setting.

SaabKen
6th March 2007, 02:51 AM
This is not correct. If you adjust your side mirrors properly, there will be no spot in which a vehicle can be that it doesn't appear in one of your mirrors. .

I guess that's the problem is, how can we ensure ALL drivers adjust their mirrors properly ? I mean, it's 2007 and seatbelts have been around (mandated) for like, 30+ years, and yet there are still numbskulls out there who don't wear them.

I see many drivers locally who barely check their mirrors let alone doing proper shoulder checking when lane changing or backing into a parking spot. Sad. Ironically these new safety systems (BLIS, Lexus' new self-park) will only perpetuate those bad/unskilled drivers' habits :confused:

Matt88S
6th March 2007, 03:45 AM
This is not correct. If you adjust your side mirrors properly, there will be no spot in which a vehicle can be that it doesn't appear in one of your mirrors. All you have to do is adjust your side mirrors so that they look more to the side and less to the back. I do it this way: Put your head as close to the side window as possible. Adjust the mirror so that the side of your car is just barely visible on the inside edge in the mirror's field of view. Now lean over as far as you can to the opposite side of the car and do the same for the opposite side mirror. Now, you will observe that as a vehicle is overtaking you on either side, as soon as it leaves your center rear view mirror, it will appear in your side mirror. It will not leave your side mirror until the vehicle is fully at your side. At no point will the car ever be missing from one of the mirrors, unless it has passed you.

Now, very few people in the US are ever told or shown how to adjust their mirrors this way, and it's really a crime. Why do your side mirrors need to look straight down the side of the car?? They don't! Who needs to see where their own car is?? I have found at least one new car whose side mirrors cannot be adjusted outward at a large enough angle to make this completely possible, though you can still improve greatly from the middle setting.


Yup, yup, what he said.

sethsev7n
6th March 2007, 06:41 AM
No one is ever going to have their mirrors adjusted correctly 100 percent of the time, and adjusting them like that is too complicated for most people. Every time your mirrors are out of whack you aren't going to pull over to the side of the road and go through that whole process :roll: .

Tboy
6th March 2007, 08:41 AM
Sad. Ironically these new safety systems (BLIS, Lexus' new self-park) will only perpetuate those bad/unskilled drivers' habits :confused:

I don't think it is a bleak as said above, my word processor has been fixing my spelling on the fly for years and I am still trying to remeber to spell the words correctly MYSELF!:cheesy:

Tboy

Matt88S
6th March 2007, 11:31 AM
No one is ever going to have their mirrors adjusted correctly 100 percent of the time, and adjusting them like that is too complicated for most people. Every time your mirrors are out of whack you aren't going to pull over to the side of the road and go through that whole process :roll: .

Pfff, we have electric mirrors, it takes all of 20 seconds to do it, there's no excuse for not having your mirrors adjusted properly. People are just ignorant, they take driving as just something to do while they are busy eating their lunch and talking to their friends on the phone. :roll:

1985 Gripen
6th March 2007, 12:38 PM
Pfff, we have electric mirrors, it takes all of 20 seconds to do it, there's no excuse for not having your mirrors adjusted properly. People are just ignorant, they take driving as just something to do while they are busy eating their lunch and talking to their friends on the phone. :roll:

Thanks for calling me ignorant, Matt. Actually, I was never instructed how to "properly" adjust the mirrors. I just assumed you set them so that where your head normally is when driving you barely see the side of the car on the inside edge (so that you're seeing the maximum area to the side and back of the car). I didn't know you're supposed to smush your head up against each window, as that wouldn't be readily apparently seeing as how you're looking in the mirror from the driving position normally.

Time for some of you to get off your high-horse.:evil:

TheRedBaron
6th March 2007, 01:49 PM
I would never get one of those volvo cross country wagons, they look too much like a hearse.

But then again I could never live with myself if I drove a stationwagon or minivan.

Aaron Gilbert
6th March 2007, 04:13 PM
I guess that's the problem is, how can we ensure ALL drivers adjust their mirrors properly ? I mean, it's 2007 and seatbelts have been around (mandated) for like, 30+ years, and yet there are still numbskulls out there who don't wear them.

I see many drivers locally who barely check their mirrors let alone doing proper shoulder checking when lane changing or backing into a parking spot. Sad. Ironically these new safety systems (BLIS, Lexus' new self-park) will only perpetuate those bad/unskilled drivers' habits :confused:

Oh there's no argument there. You are always going to have poor drivers. People learn driving habits from their friends and family, and their bad behaviors pass along to the next generation, except for the oddballs who actually care about their own skills and not just doing what everyone else does. My point was more along the lines of lacking information. I too had driver's ed in high school and was given all kinds of warnings about the evil satanistic and more dangerous than a drug overdose Blind Spot. Had they only taught that you could adjust your side mirrors to eliminate the possible blind spot, there would be no need to make this big ruckus about it. That doesn't imply you should stop turning your head to look before changing lanes. But, at least you would have the completely safe option not to, and be more aware of vehicles around you at all times.

I just can't stand when after years (decades) of bad learned behaviors by consumers, manufacturers decide that everyone is just dumb and they have to change their product so that idiots don't sue. Anybody remember in Back to the Future, where Biff claimed that he crashed George McFly's car because George didn't inform him about the blind spot? Well, that's what we're getting to, and it's absurd! It's even more absurd when there is a perfectly simple solution to eliminate the problem, and yet nobody knows about it. Let's see... would I rather spend $0 and adjust my mirrors, or have the federal government mandate that all cars come with a blind spot warning system that adds another $500 to the price of the car?

{rant over}

Aaron Gilbert
6th March 2007, 04:20 PM
No one is ever going to have their mirrors adjusted correctly 100 percent of the time, and adjusting them like that is too complicated for most people. Every time your mirrors are out of whack you aren't going to pull over to the side of the road and go through that whole process :roll: .

Why wouldn't they be adjusted 100% of the time? At least 90% of new cars these days have power mirrors, so there's no excuse for not adjusting them. They only move when you wash the car. How hard is it to readjust after your once a month or even once a week carwash? And why would you need to pull over when you can adjust from the drivers seat?

Seriously, if someone cannot adjust a mirror, do we really need to be letting them drive a 3000+ pound piece of iron with thousands of moving parts, at a high rate of speed just a few feet away from other drivers??

Am I the only one that checks my mirrors before (and during) every drive?

Aaron Gilbert
6th March 2007, 04:27 PM
Thanks for calling me ignorant, Matt. Actually, I was never instructed how to "properly" adjust the mirrors. I just assumed you set them so that where your head normally is when driving you barely see the side of the car on the inside edge (so that you're seeing the maximum area to the side and back of the car). I didn't know you're supposed to smush your head up against each window, as that wouldn't be readily apparently seeing as how you're looking in the mirror from the driving position normally.

Time for some of you to get off your high-horse.:evil:


I know it can sound like a high horse, but let's not go that far. It's only a simple lack of information, which sadly, has been perpetuated for decades throughout the world. I thought just the same as you about side mirror aiming, was never taught a thing about it. Then about 10 years ago, I read a post on TSN, and have been blind-spot free ever since! I'm not trying to blame anyone for anything (well except maybe the manufacturers and driver's ed books/instructors). I'm just trying to get out the information that blind spots are not inherent to all vehicles. Now driving a 26' moving truck.... there's a blind spot - directly behind you! :)

Matt88S
6th March 2007, 05:27 PM
Thanks for calling me ignorant, Matt. Actually, I was never instructed how to "properly" adjust the mirrors. I just assumed you set them so that where your head normally is when driving you barely see the side of the car on the inside edge (so that you're seeing the maximum area to the side and back of the car). I didn't know you're supposed to smush your head up against each window, as that wouldn't be readily apparently seeing as how you're looking in the mirror from the driving position normally.

Time for some of you to get off your high-horse.:evil:

Nobody told me how to either, I got off my horse and read a book. :D Lots of books actually.

No offence was ment, I wasn't addressing you directly in any way shape or form. Its just a pet peave of mine that people in american, and probably most of the world I suppose, just don't take driving seriously and then go cry in their milk when something happens because they didn't know, or they go invent some silly mechanical device that only works half the time to do what there was already a way to do if only they had known how to do it then when they get in an accident they sue the maker of the device because it let them pull into the side of a mack truck. :roll: I'll stop ranting now. :D

Seriously though, I didn't mean to call you ignorant, my apoligies.

sethsev7n
6th March 2007, 09:34 PM
Why wouldn't they be adjusted 100% of the time? At least 90% of new cars these days have power mirrors, so there's no excuse for not adjusting them. They only move when you wash the car. How hard is it to readjust after your once a month or even once a week carwash? And why would you need to pull over when you can adjust from the drivers seat?

Seriously, if someone cannot adjust a mirror, do we really need to be letting them drive a 3000+ pound piece of iron with thousands of moving parts, at a high rate of speed just a few feet away from other drivers??

Am I the only one that checks my mirrors before (and during) every drive?

For example, if you adjust your seat significantly, or lets say if someone else drives your car, even for a brief period. Also as you mentioned, the car wash. Sure, most of the time they will be in place right where you left them.

You certainly aren't the only one that checks your mirrors before you drive, but I'm willing to be that 80% of drivers or a regular basis, don't. I usually don't, and its not because I don't care, its because I'm in a hurry and don't have time to go over a 10 point inspection of everything before I take off :cool: Therefore, most people notice their mirrors are out of whack when they are already driving and need to use them.