well it finally happened, lost 4th gear so its a gearbox strip / build. Can anyone point me in the right direction for some good imfo on Strip - inspect - rebuild & what to look out for. This is new territory for me
9000 aero 97yr
Theres a full DIY writeup with pictures on the web somewhere, I was only looking at the pages I printed off yesterday. Will see if I can find the web page.
Sorry to hear that Norman. But welcome to the club.
Gearbox failure is the one worry for all of us Saabers that is rational, if you drive them hard. I try to pause in neutral and match rpms when driving hard, if I remember, to give the synchros a chance, but my first failure was the pinion gear, in a stock Aero at 48k miles, and to their credit Saab ended up paying for most of it, and I got a brand new box. Now 40k miles later I have a little crunch into 3rd if pushed, and I'm soon going to visit Abbott for a rebuild and LSD insertion.
I have also bought an oil radiator, fittings, hoses, and a therm., just need to buy the pump which have sourced in USA, whole cost of parts will be 110 quid, will plumb-in a cooling circuit for trans oil. I will write more when I actually do it, not certain if it will help, but ripping everything apart messing w/ new i/c so why not...
Good luck with the rebuild, I was looking for the link that Marrk found for you, it seems the best thing I have seen. Way beyond my skills though...
I would take it to a specialist in rebuilding transmissions. If you take the transmission out and deliver it to them, rebuilders can be very cheap and they will do it right, they have all the necessary equipment.
Gotta watch out for the transmission rebuilders tho. Some can be REAL cowboys. I had a 1989 BMW 535 a few years back, that suddenly went into limp mode. In the next town, there was a transmission rebuilder there I had seen going by often. On their card, it said 20 years experience blah blah. Left the car with them for over a MONTH. Did they find the problem? NOPE. Still frigging charged me 200 quid for doing jack. The head guy said he had opened up the valve chest, but found no problem. Called in an auto leccy, who also found no problem.
Took the car to a BMW specialist I used. Monday morning, 9:30 am, dropped car off. Monday afternoon, just after 3pm. Ring ring.
Mech; Your car...
Me; (feeling worried) Yes...
Mech; It's done.
Me; Already? What was wrong with it?
Mech; Corroded control wire at the side of the gearbox.
End of story. I told all my mates about it, and told them to stay away from that transmission place. The place is called, JR Transmissions, in Farnborough, Hampshire, for anyone who has problems, DON'T go to them.
My 97 suffered this failure. The snap ring/circlip holding the three/four gear cluster to the shaft failed and a piece (one of the "eyes") dropped into the bearing welding the bearing to the shaft. When I complained to SAAB about this absurd manufacturing defect they sold me a factory rebuilt box at dealer cost three years and 40,000 km after the factory warranty had expired. Now I call that after sales service expecially since I was the second owner. The new box is going strong and actually just now broken in 80,000 km and four years later.
I don't think driving has anything to do with this weakness in the boxes. I think SAAB had a QA issue in their Gotenburg tranny plant, which they no longer use I believe.
Box is out but not yet split, lots of bits of gear teeth in the sump of the box. Question: I,m going to fit a box from a CS or CSE post 95, apart from the taller gearing what else is diffrent
As an update, i,m back on the road with a 4.06 ratio box from a 95 CDE LPT. I've got the Aero box fully stripped & the damage is,
4th gear = a donut
Crown gear on diff has chipped teeth along with the mating drive gear from the 2nd shaft
Sounds the same as my issue. Broken end of the circlip dropped into the gear bearing and toasted it. Third and Fourth gears welded to the input shaft on mine but fortunately no other broken bits.
hi norman
i have a 1994 9000aero which had at the time 258,000 ks(approx 168,000miles???) i lost the 3/4 hub and shaft in my manual aero.it seems to be a common problem in all 9000/9-5 manuals(9000's after 1993) as they use the same hub and shaft.saab australia state that "they can't engineer for every possibility " or words to that effect-that came from saab's head honcho parveen batish here in australia.i still have his letter- i sent letters and photos to saab in australia and sweden.the part numbers that failed are hub #90490955 and shaft #8747933.the splines in the hub wear smooth thus causing the shaft splines to flatten causing the loss of drive in 3rd and 4th gears, in my opinion a major metallurgy problem.i posted this in the 900 forum.also in the 900 forum is a thread by matt88s on 03/02/2007page 9 of?? which has a parts diagram which may be of use to you.find a good reliable saab rebuilder the extra money will be worth it.also replace the clutch ,pressure plate and throwout bearing regardless of how old the previous parts were.all the best ,cheers.
Thanks, its intersting ref: various failure types, mine is not the circlip & not the shaft, basically 4th gear on the driving shaft is a donut, not a gear tooth left. the meshing gear on the driven shaft is a 75% donut, the crowngear & driving gear off the shaft have been chipped due to debris from the 4th gear failure
i,m still sweeping bits of gears up off the garage floor
hi norman. the 4th gear hub in my gearbox has smoothed out all the centre splines the teeth are a little worn with the corresponding splines on the shaft smoothed/worn down by about 0.5mm.i still had 1st,2nd,5th & reverse.one of the threads commented that the gearboxes are no longer sourced from a particular factory but they still use the same parts/part numbers in all manual s apparently.i still firmly believe it's a metallurgy fault and i believe saab/general motors are fully aware of this but won't accept responsibility and are like the ostrich-hides its head in the sand.having said that i still cannot find a car i like at the moment which i like better. cheers
i have a 1994 9000aero... i lost the 3/4 hub and shaft in my manual aero.it seems to be a common problem in all 9000/9-5 manuals(9000's after 1993) as they use the same hub and shaft.
...the part numbers that failed are hub #90490955 and shaft #8747933.
If your box really is a 1994 model you do NOT have the parts you quoted in your box. Those parts are newer ones which correct the problem with 3/4 hub snap ring failing, taken in use around 1997.
If your box really is a 1994 model you do NOT have the parts you quoted in your box. Those parts are newer ones which correct the problem with 3/4 hub snap ring failing, taken in use around 1997.
hi hal9000 & marrk
yes my car IS a 1994 9000t aero manual australian delivery manual oddly though the dealer delivery docket shows it as an automatic,but i can guarantee that i have a clutch & 5spd gearbox.the parts that were replaced were those i have quoted & it was not to fix a broken circlip but as i previously stated the loss of the splines in the centre of the hub-i know i still have the b??@@in parts here to prove it.if these are updated parts then maybe?????????? saab have finally fixed this problem-so LETS HOPE SO. by the way something for you 9-5 owners i found out today-if your brake vacuum pump doesn't stop pumping,first try replacing the relay in the under bonnet/hood relay box.it's possibly also available from your friendly gm dealer as well as saab. cheers.
Breaking them is easy but I want to rebuild my 97 Aero box and I also want to incorporate all the good fix,s, but what are they, i.e. what mods if any, what replacment part no,s etc..
I,ve heard about the snap ring & i,ve also heard about putting a load bearing washer in with a circlip, - all only rumours no detail
Can any one help with the detail
also any handy tips on re assembly ( beyond the normal rebuild techniques)
Example do you use a molyslip lub on the rebuild or just std gearbox oil
do you, as a matter of course replace the needle bearings or if good keep original.
I,m willing to learn by my own mistakes but much prefer yours:lol:
hal9000 & marrk
i'm sorry to hear of your sensitivity--(this is the only time i have in, any thread,in any of the forums i've read, seen such a reply and disbelief to anyone's questions /responses)-- regarding my nominating those part numbers.as i stated in the previous threads including one in the 900 forum for which i got a serve for putting my information in that workshop/forum--but i'll accept that.i have the photos to prove my statements.send me your address via my email spadar@aapt.net.au and i'll certainly post you the photos of the shaft and the hub/gear,otherwise it may be a few days before i can get the photo's onto the forum.the part numbers were the one's given to me when the gearbox was rebuilt also all the bearings in the g/box & final drive were replaced at the same time.the total cost including new clutch, pressure plate,throwout bearing and labour--$aud3800.i'm not a mechanic.but fonts between 16-40 wheeeeeeeee sensitivity.cheers.
also any handy tips on re assembly ( beyond the normal rebuild techniques)
Example do you use a molyslip lub on the rebuild or just std gearbox oil
do you, as a matter of course replace the needle bearings or if good keep original.
I,m willing to learn by my own mistakes but much prefer yours:lol:
I heat the cases (maybe 300 degrees F?) so the bearing races fall out and the new ones drop in; no pressing needed.
I use whatever clean grease is around for pre-lube.
I replace every bearing in the gearbox.
It's been my experience that they only break when the pinion bearings wear and there's movement in the shaft, or somebody spins one wheel on ice until the differential blows apart. Of course, I was a dealership mechanic, not a Hot Rodder so I never strengthened one for high performance.
hi jim mesthene. thanks for that info i'm sure norman will appreciate that info, as i do. it's a possibility that saab misssed out on the full hardening process when the early-1993 to 1997? manuals were originally built.it's disappointing though when other manufacturers gearboxes go in normal use for 500,000++ ks/miles.for the disbelievers my engine number is #B234R6M14R135390 i can add the vin but i think that only relates to australian delivered vehicles
thanks again jim.cheers
I've seen that failure before; splines wiped right off the shaft and hub. It is my belief that the bearings go first, allowing movement in the shaft. Once the mainshaft is loose, all sorts of things start popping loose. I also think that if you keep them full of oil, the gearboxes last a long time.
hi jim mesthene thank you for vindicating me in regards to the internal splines on the 3/4hub.from your previous info though i still feel that it was a hardening issue in the case of the gearbox in my aero.i have it serviced by a dealer trained garage,specialising in saabs here in bendigo,victoria,australia every 5000k or 3months.costs, but pays off in the long run.my '88 9000t has always been regularly serviced and the turbo is still ok at 440,000k-an auto same as the '88 had a replacement turbo after 169,000 mainly because it hadn't been serviced regularly.i think the guy wanted to drive it into the ground and then blame the car/saab for the any failures.thanks again jim.cheers.
I heat the cases (maybe 300 degrees F?) so the bearing races fall out and the new ones drop in; no pressing needed.
I use whatever clean grease is around for pre-lube.
I replace every bearing in the gearbox.
It's been my experience that they only break when the pinion bearings wear and there's movement in the shaft, or somebody spins one wheel on ice until the differential blows apart. Of course, I was a dealership mechanic, not a Hot Rodder so I never strengthened one for high performance.
Thanks, quality imfo. I spent a lot of time taking the box apart saving the bearings but from this imfo its "break them bin them" along with the circlips & preload sleeve. I also read from your comments that it would be wise when picking up a high milage 2nd hand box to strip & replace the above as an investment
any more imfo out there?
...the part numbers were the one's given to me when the gearbox was rebuilt also all the bearings in the g/box & final drive were replaced at the same time.
About this sensitivity thing, you first clearly wrote that the parts that failed where ...933 shaft and ...955 hub. But your gearbox is from 1994 and if it has been in original condition, ie unopened, those quoted parts are not the same as the ones that had failed in your box.
Quoting newer parts as failed ones tickles my sensitivity, definitely. There is already enough misinformation floating around this forum. As I understood your post, the parts you quoted are the ones that went into your rebuild box, not necessarily what where there from the beginning.
Me, like probably some others would really like to know certainly that the parts that failed in your box were of older type.
There is zero disbelief from my behalf, just a request for clarification, ok?
...
As for the failure mechanism, Jim Mesthene is right that the splines failed probably due to hub moving on the shaft. This same can be seen also on the pinion shaft 3rd and 4th gears when the collapsible spacer squeezes a little more flatter due to axial forces from gears. But why the hub gets moving on the shaft is good question. Of course the same axial forces apply to the hub through 3th and 4th gears on the clutch shaft but the hub does not get moving before the snap ring on it failes or is flattened by the hub. I have a good collection of those snap rings here in different states of failing from disassembled boxes.
hi hal9000 that was probably because i'm not a mechanic nor am i a parts person and when i'm given the part numbers that are put in without being told that there is an update and most of us "plebes",to use an americanism( i'm not an american) then what do you do,not only that but i have clearly stated that i have a '94 aero.to my knowledge the g/box has never previously been repaired -i am the third owner and oddly enough the same as for my '88 9000t.i see your point but also when challenged, as i was with the font usage,then my point can also be seen.the circlip did not fail in this case, i believe,but as jim mesthene said possibly the bearing wore excessively although i still believe that it is a case of metallurgy/hardness.there has been sufficient discussion of my points, now i believe, to put this particular discussion to rest and allow norman to get on with the job of rebuilding his gearbox.my offer to you about my email address is still open if you wish to take up--your choice.cheers.
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