Black Di Vs Red Di

[Shaft]

Can vice versa be used on vice versa cars?

[Tweek's Turbos]

I have been using a black on my 95 900se in place of red for nearly 9 months. I wouldn't use red for a black one though.

[Shaft]

whats the difference in the 2? Can it handle a Modded ECU?

[keratos68]

Can vice versa be used on vice versa cars?

What's a DI anyway ?

[Shaft]

Direct Ignition Cassette.

I know some people using the Black one on a T5 NG900... but from what I know.. T7's are different to modd.. and the black DI is a T7 one.. so those of you who know abit about modds and the di.. can the black one be used on a T5 model with a modded ecu??? Will save me butt loads of money.

[DrBoost]

Hej !

I can answer, but I can not tell any details.
Cars with Trionic T5 should use the red DI
Cars with Trionic T7 shoud use the black DI.
The DI's are different, and it's more than the colour...

Period end of discission. ;)

[Stefano]

Hey DrBoost, thanks for the informations.

What can happen if I wanted to run a black DI in a T5? poor performance, short DI life, poor knock detection, poor fuel economy, long adaptation periods... all of them....?

I understand that they work different so only the right one should be used, that's clear, but I keep reading reports like the ones in this thread of people running black DIs in T5 cars and don't notice anything...?:confused:

[DrBoost]

Hej !

My main concern is about knock and misfire detection.
Possibly shorter DI-life, but thats' not my main concern.
So, as you understand not all will se the problem....
That's why they say it's OK.

[Stefano]

Thanks. It's always a pleasure talking to you ;)

[8valvegrowl]

In a pinch or emergency, you CAN run a T5 engine with a T7 casette...but like DrBoost said...they are different animals, so I would limit it to an emergency scenario only. Then, I'd put a Red cassette back in ASAP. No real cheap solution...it does suck that the Red cassette is more expensive. But sometimes you can find a good, low mile used one for a good price, they make good backup/test DI's. [Plus Red is faster...we all know that :cheesy: ]

You can't put a T5 cassette in a T7 engine. Unless you like destroying cassettes (i know, i know...we've all thought about blowing up our cassettes at one point or another).

[Tweek's Turbos]

One used DC one uses AC correct?

[Adrian W]

One used DC one uses AC correct?

I'm not sure if that's true (I kind-of doubt it because of the way in which ion-sensing knock-control works), but the black DI does use a Triac instead of a Thyristor; the difference between the two being that the Triac works with current flowing in both directions and is more controllable.

[boxman]

it is my understanding ( dr boost may be able to shed some light on this) that the T7 uses much more sophisticate electronics than the T5 therefor the black T7 DI (ignition discharge unit to give it its proper name) also has more electronics inside than the red T5 DI, using a black one in-place of a red one will simply not use the extra electronics but using a red one in-place of a black one will give problems as the T7 will need the DI fetchers that are missing in the red one

[brewtide]

I've asked this question to both my local indies as well a local dealer...

They all swear that the T7 cassettes can run in the T5's without ANY issues at all, in fact it's suggested (perhaps just due to the cost..?).

And everyone agrees that the red cassettes cannot run on the T7's.

I need a new cassette soon, and I'm moderately broke. I'm going to run a black one and take my chances, and I'll keep everyone informed.

Peace,
bny

[PMI]

The T7 and T5 cassettes are close to the same as far as what they do to fire the plugs. Putting something cheaper on your car is great, if you know the issues, I am all for it, but...

Any dealer or qualified mechanic who knowingly installs the black cassette on the T5 car is going against warnings published by Saab. Anyone with a subscription to the Saab WIS and the Saab TSBs received them.

Since the T7 cassette recall, there is a large number of essentially free (to a dealer) black cassettes floating around. The temptation to take something you get free, and charge a customer for it is great.

from Saab, about interchanging ignition cassettes:

http://www.geocities.com/ng900set/IDM/IDMTSB248-2502.gif

[brewtide]

Call me a rebel...

We'll see, after all, it's ONLY an engine =)

But thank you PMI, I understand the concern -- We'll see if I get over the ignorance before dropping $.

Cheers,
Bny

[Shaft]

Great info guys.. Brew... I'm really eager to see ur findings with the black DI.. are u modded?

My biggest reason why i brought this up is there is an organization thats listing wrecked saabs in the classifieds.. I called them looking for a red DI. He tried to push a black DI and insisted I use it regardless. I told him otherwise but he persued.. then he said "when u see the light call me back" then hung up on me.

So i was pissed and put this post up. If u guys will let me, i'll post the name and phone # of the organization.

[Saab9-3_2.0tSE]

I bought my car at the beginning of this year. Then DI casette was black (it should be red). I am going to change this black casette to red casette. I am also going to change motor control box (154hp->220hp) after 5month. So is it better to change casette now or after modification? I can't say if wrong DI has been any harmful for my car.

[keratos68]

Direct Ignition Cassette.

I know some people using the Black one on a T5 NG900... but from what I know.. T7's are different to modd.. and the black DI is a T7 one.. so those of you who know abit about modds and the di.. can the black one be used on a T5 model with a modded ecu??? Will save me butt loads of money.

insightful.

Thanks

[Stefano]

I bought my car at the beginning of this year. Then DI casette was black (it should be red). I am going to change this black casette to red casette. I am also going to change motor control box (154hp->220hp) after 5month. So is it better to change casette now or after modification? I can't say if wrong DI has been any harmful for my car.
154hp... are you sure your car should have a red DI? I thought all T5 were 185hp, and that LPTs were all T7 (hence black DI). Anyway, red would actually be the rigth one for your car, the swap should be done now, no point in waiting for the modification.

keratos68, the DI cassette is that thing on the top of the engine with a wiring harness coming out of it. It has the ignition coils in it, and drives the spark plugs. Is it insightful enough? ;)

[PMI]

I hope nobody takes this the wrong way - I am all for substituting parts and trying things that may or may not work. I have run my own engine in ways that are definitely not recommended, but I consider anything that happens as a result part of the cost of having fun. One day that may include losing an engine.

I just believe in having the correct information - then go for it... :cheesy:

Using a black ign. cassette, especially as a spare is attractive - you can usually get a used one almost for free if you find a friendly Saab mechanic - but telling an unsuspecting car owner that they are the same is a pretty rotten thing to do, IMHO.

The knock sense circuits are different - again, not usually fatal unless the A/F mix has intentionally been adjusted to run lean, unless the O2 sensor is faulty, or the fuel being used is not consumer grade. The other differences may cost you a few horsepower, but should not hurt anything. If I had one on a car I just purchased, I would not be in a hurry to swap it out.

for anyone who does not know what it is, DIC, a.k.a. the IDM (Ignition Discharge Module):

Ignition Module (http://www.geocities.com/ng900set/IDM/IDM.html)

[Saab9-3_2.0tSE]

154hp... are you sure your car should have a red DI? I thought all T5 were 185hp, and that LPTs were all T7 (hence black DI). Anyway, red would actually be the rigth one for your car, the swap should be done now, no point in waiting for the modification.


I am sure, because T7 LPT is 150hp and the year model of my car is 99'. I think that all NG900 models are at least 185hp but there is some LPT 9-3 models with T5.
If there is some technical issues for not using wrong casette, so I can't understand why then T5's and T7' DI are suitabel for each other.
If I change DI casette, so is it good to change also sparks?