Ah, I see what your avatar means now. Yes, I need to do the same thing. I'd like to edit the 2nd post on my project thread to include a summary, and some up to date info.
In other news, have you priced shipping your turbo to me? Have just purchased chargecooler, best on the net!

In the meantime I'll PM you the text of the first post on your project thread, you PM me the amendments and I'll do the edit. Not ideal at all, but it gets the job done until the root problem is fixed.


That's not really going to help, is it? :roll:

Thanks matthew. That's very helpful!

In other news, have you priced shipping your turbo to me? Have just purchased chargecooler, best on the net!

I'll look into it. Not sure what it weighs yet, because it's still in the car! PM me your address.

Well, in order to achieve best-on-the-net status, I had to do away with my dodge srt-4 intercooler in favor of something that was serious, and at the same time, no joke.

Actually it's because my car is too low to run piping under the car. Anyway...


I was just about to pull the trigger on an eBay IC like this:
http://s1.promotionsupplies.com/ebay/just-intercoolers/images/intercooler/au-ic0050-2.jpg

That's a 3.5" thick core. For about $120 after shipping. Not bad, but I was a bit leary about buying an eBay IC. So I did some digging and found that this intercooler is a copy of the King of intercoolers, the Precision 350. Rated for 350hp, it's 26 x 6 x 3.5 or thereabout, and is one of the best flowing compact intercoolers out there. Genuine Garrett cores with precision cast endtanks. Made in best-country-in-world-USA and very pretty.

So I started searching used (as retail price is $400) and discount racing parts stores. Best price used I found was $175 + shipping. Best price new I found was $235 shipped from No Limit Motorsports. An amazing deal IMHO. So, my new FMIC is on the way and I couldn't be happier.

Best on the net? Perhaps...

Link: http://www.precisionturbo.net/intercoolers-display.php?company_id=101795&category_id=3013
http://www.innovativetuning.com/catalog/images/PTEIC0531005.jpg

...and brought me a box!



A box that says "Garrett" :cheesy:

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/P8010006_Large.sized.jpg
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/P8010007_Large.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/P8010008_Large.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/P8010009_Large.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/P8010010_Large.sized.jpg

pshh...don't they make them any bigger?

I mean honestly...

:o :o :o haha only kidding. That thing is HUGE!!

-Alex

To do:
seed lawn

Shot of the stage III exhaust turbine
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/P8010011_Large.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/P8010012_Large.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/P8010013_Large.sized.jpg






Yes I went overboard with pics. I'm excited. Here's the specs:


Genuine Garrett, brand new not rebuilt:
T3/T04E Hybrid
.60 A/R compressor housing
57 Trim compressor wheel
.63 A/R turbine housing
Stage III turbine wheel

Extras I went for:
360* monster thrust bearing
step-gapped oil seals
metric water cooled CHRA


Basically for my goals this turbo should be perfect. I am focusing on the 4000-7000 RPM range. The big .63 A/R turbine housing will spool very late, and will hold well past redline. Sweet spot on this unit is 17 PSI.

As for the extras, the 360 degree thrust bearing is to carry the increased load that the 270 won't. The step-gapped oil seal makes sure that the turbo won't smoke, as must upgraded T3 units do. And watercooling with the metric assembly was an extra that they had to order, but it's worth it to me as I already switched to watercooling and I can use all my old fittings.

The other cool thing is the four-bolt exhaust housing. There's no WG port to disrupt the flow out of the turbo, exhaust gasses just shoot straight out. This is external WG only (new manifold).

I have turbo envy.

I have turbo envy.

And I have manifold envy. It's a tie.

After seeing this there are so many things that I just don't care about any more.

That is a monster! If you are concentrating on 4 - 7k rpm how is the tractability going to be below 4k?

Well, in order to achieve best-on-the-net status, I had to do away with my dodge srt-4 intercooler in favor of something that was serious, and at the same time, no joke.

Actually it's because my car is too low to run piping under the car. Anyway...


I was just about to pull the trigger on an eBay IC like this:
http://s1.promotionsupplies.com/ebay/just-intercoolers/images/intercooler/au-ic0050-2.jpg

That's a 3.5" thick core. For about $120 after shipping. Not bad, but I was a bit leary about buying an eBay IC. So I did some digging and found that this intercooler is a copy of the King of intercoolers, the Precision 350. Rated for 350hp, it's 26 x 6 x 3.5 or thereabout, and is one of the best flowing compact intercoolers out there. Genuine Garrett cores with precision cast endtanks. Made in best-country-in-world-USA and very pretty.

So I started searching used (as retail price is $400) and discount racing parts stores. Best price used I found was $175 + shipping. Best price new I found was $235 shipped from No Limit Motorsports. An amazing deal IMHO. So, my new FMIC is on the way and I couldn't be happier.

Best on the net? Perhaps...

Link: http://www.precisionturbo.net/intercoolers-display.php?company_id=101795&category_id=3013
http://www.innovativetuning.com/catalog/images/PTEIC0531005.jpg

gimme your old srt-4 IC :cool: ?

Thats a quality turbo. Nearly as good as raul's. Obviously your old downpipe is no use to you now, you'll have to send that to me as well, along with your old turbo :)

Looks very similar to mine Joe. Welcome to the "C900 T3/T4 0.6 A/R club". Best club on the nets.

You will like it a lot. The stage III wheel'll spool slower than mine but mine isn't as bad as I thought it would be and it's weeelllll worth it for the top end :cheesy: 20th Century Hybrid power all the way.

thx for the comments guys. I'm very pleased. They even included a gasket kit for free! I'll be picking up some new mandrel bends this weekend for the new downpipe. I've got a few ideas for that one :cheesy:


Kurbads, we'll have to check on the shipping.

Philb, no problem here except for shipping. If you can stomach it, that's fine.

Albert, I forgot you drove a hybrid too! :lol: What exhaust housing do you have, the .48 or the .63? When does it spool?

Well, usps priority international is $115 for 30lb or $140 for 40 lb to Ireland, I could deal with that. Downpipe is fairly bulky though, probably will charge extra for that.

I've got the Frenchy special so it's a 0.6 A/R on the exhaust. Must be some sort of metric thing. Anyway, it spools alright. I used to have a Mitsu so I should have noticed a big change but I didn't really. Just turned the rise rate up on the APC a bit and that took care of it to my satisfaction. I don't mind lag anyway. I do so much town driving the dual personality quite suits my needs. Top end's great. I can only run about 14-15psi now. Any more, I run out fuel and it pings all over the shop, which is not something I'd experienced since I FMIC'd up.

If you're planning an exotic D/P, external wastegate, the new exhaust header, and with a nicely beefed up engine, I'd reckon you'll not be far from stock as far as the spool goes.

Seems the lucas has worked pretty well for you Albert, but... INSTALL THE MEGASQUIRT :cheesy:

Seems the lucas has worked pretty well for you Albert, but... INSTALL THE MEGASQUIRT :cheesy:

I know, I know. A few "normal" issues have cropped up and my enthusiasm for making it go faster has waned. Got a set of these sitting in the house as well

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BOSCH-GREEN-COSWORTH-INJECTORS-(803s)-SET-OF-4-(-NEW-)_W0QQitemZ170173179634QQcmdZViewItem

Noice albert. I've got my eyes on a set of these:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Siemens-Deka-60-Inj-630cc-Focus-VW-60lb-4-each_W0QQitemZ180113976617QQihZ008QQcategoryZ33554 QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem

I know how that is Albert.. My steering has now decided it doesn't need to be replaced, which means I should go ahead and sort out the fuelling :) Was looking at injectors just yesterday, seems 80 pounds is about the going rate ok. I'm looking for fairly big injectors since I'm looking to run on e85. I think the cosworths should be good enough to allow 250hp on e85, and the great thing about them is they will be easy to sell on.

Hey Joe,
I was wondering if you ever figured out the problem outlined in this thread.http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79078&highlight=clogged+converter My spg seems to have the same problem, and the thread never states what was wrong.

BTW, Your turbo is lookin great! Cant wait to see what kind of crazy downpipe you make for it.
Cheers ;)

hmm...... it appears that I don't quite remember what's wrong. I have a feeling it was because of an intermittent misfiring of one cylinder, caused by a frayed injector wire. I went back and electrical tape wrapped all the injector wires under the rubber boots.

WOW That looks nice IJ. Did you purchase it from the boys in Arkansas? Yes you'll like the 0.63 A/R for exhaust. I stuck with the stage I turbine, but went with a Trim 60 compressor wheel. You will absolutely love the new turbo! Watch out V8's cause IJ is coming 'round the bend. If you still have your old DP after X-mas, send me a PM if you would like to sell it.

pierre

Here's a list of parts I need to install (mods, feel free to add this to the Wish List/To Do: section of the front page)


-t3/t4 turbo
-precision intercooler
-stainless steel equal length header
-atmospheric WG dump tube
-new DP
-new IC piping (welded)
-saabrally steel diff cover
-saabsavior skidplate

And either:
-BF! LH 2.2 chip
-Siemens Deka 60lb/hr injectors
or:
-Megasquirt fuel control
-2.1L throttle body
-9000 IAT, AMM delete
-New injectors (???)

I'm still interested in trying a plug-in LH chip before I start making the necessary modifications for MS. If it ends up satisfying my fuel needs, that will be great. If not, MS will be the way I go.

Is this fuel chip going to be dialled in on a dyno? If not, what are the chances of it working? MS all the way.

Wot about one of those Volvo TD04HL turbos that I've seen discussed? Apparently inexpensive second-hand and the Mitsubishi units are reliable too.

mods, feel free to add this to the Wish List/To Do: section of the front page
Done - sorry it apparently has to be this way :( I did just add the stuff though - let me know if I should have removed/replaced any items in the list.

Do you mean its not possible to change the expiry for editing posts? I'd have thought there was some config variable to do that?

Do you mean its not possible to change the expiry for editing posts? I'd have thought there was some config variable to do that?

There is. Apparently they changed it on purpose :roll: Because some people were deleting posts once they leave, or once their question got answered :x

Bring back the edit button!!!

Only admins have control over that. PM Paul or Simon with your suggestions ;)

It should be possible to allow editing of posts to be restricted to certain forums. So the C900 Project forum could allow the editing of posts, while the rest do not.

[QUOTE=IronJoe]Shot of the stage III exhaust turbine
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/P8010011_Large.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/P8010012_Large.sized.jpg

QUOTE]


:o

I need to go change my pants.

It should be possible to allow editing of posts to be restricted to certain forums. So the C900 Project forum could allow the editing of posts, while the rest do not.

Welp, just got word back. Apparently it's an all or nothing setting, can't be done individually. So it's not changing.


One of two options: make IronJoe a moderator, or I create a NEW project thread whenever I have something to add.

Your choice.

IronJoe the BANINATOR!


IJ for President...

Welp, just got word back. Apparently it's an all or nothing setting, can't be done individually. So it's not changing.


One of two options: make IronJoe a moderator, or I create a NEW project thread whenever I have something to add.

Your choice.

It is not an all or nothing setting. They're blowing smoke up your dress if they said that. Unless they meant giving you, as a person, permissions.

All forum permissions are able to be set on a per-forum basis. So the Project C900 forum can have differnet post editing permissions than the other forums.


Unless they are running a pretty outdated version of vBulletin and are to cheap/lazy to upgrade.


But I digress... this is about your vert, and not the technical capabilities of the forum software.

One of two options: make IronJoe a moderator, or I create a NEW project thread whenever I have something to add.




Do it. They'll see the error of their ways and give you back your "edit" right in no time.

Unless they meant giving you, as a person, permissions.
I think it was that rather than on a forum-by-forum basis.

But I digress... this is about your vert, and not the technical capabilities of the forum software.
I agree. I've asked for this forum to be given different permissions and will wait for a reply. Until then it's probably best to stick on-topic.

One of two options: make IronJoe a moderator, or I create a NEW project thread whenever I have something to add.

Ummm, why not just put a new post on the end of the existing thread...?

Ummm, why not just put a new post on the end of the existing thread...?


Because when you want to know the latest state of upgradedness on IJ's car, or anyone's for that matter, you have to plough through all the posts made. The easiest way to keep the current state of affairs on your upgrades is to just edit your first post, since it's easy to find.

Because when you want to know the latest state of upgradedness on IJ's car, or anyone's for that matter, you have to plough through all the posts made. The easiest way to keep the current state of affairs on your upgrades is to just edit your first post, since it's easy to find.

OR, you have your profile set so that it goes straight to the latest post, rather than the foirst and having to click through to the end..... ;)

G

OR, you have your profile set so that it goes straight to the latest post, rather than the foirst and having to click through to the end..... ;)

...or just follow the link from the "new post" notification email...

You are misunderstanding. If I want to find out what the latest state of play is on Joes car, as far as mods are concerned, i.e, which turbo is he currently running, which ECU, which FMIC etc. etc. then I know he keeps his first post updated, as did I, with that info. If he can't edit the first post anymore then you can't find out exactly what the state of play is with the car, without trawling through all the posts to find out.

Hmm. Maybe he'll have to make use his "signature" as the update list. I figured it was just a place for people to share witty banter, but it could work.

Back to topic.

Does it snow much in WA? Or are you using a different car this year Joe?

This thread is 28 pages long. Mine, even with far, far less done to my car is 18 pages long. Its all very well to set things in your profile, but I've linked my thread on other car forums, people have even taken the time to read it.(!) Since they are not and will not be members, it would be handy to have a summary on the first page.

Does it snow much in WA? Or are you using a different car this year Joe?

Using the SPG. The 'vert is in the garage with it's hood off getting torn apart... for....

This! My equal-length header has arrived. For those who didn't see the thread, it's stainless steel mandrel bends, 2000* ceramic coated in black, with an external WG port. Made by Chuck of BoostFactory! Shown with turbo for size reference.
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album108/1000861yg7.jpg


Terrible camphone pics:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album108/IMAGE_065.jpg


http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album108/IMAGE_087.jpg



In other news, my Megasquirt-LH2.2 adapter is on the way! Paul finished it up and it should be here shortly. Once I'm done installing the new hardware, I'll start hooking up MS and see what happens. I'm still not sure what to do about injectors yet... Any size recommendations?

I'm still not sure what to do about injectors yet... Any size recommendations?


Chuck may tell you 60 lb. ;) And here all along I thought 34 lb. injectors were huge for a 2.0 liter. :roll:

Using the SPG. The 'vert is in the garage with it's hood off getting torn apart... for....



In other news, my Megasquirt-LH2.2 adapter is on the way! Paul finished it up and it should be here shortly. Once I'm done installing the new hardware, I'll start hooking up MS and see what happens. I'm still not sure what to do about injectors yet... Any size recommendations?

I'm running 42# FMS with a 3 bar FPR. At idle the ECU tells me I'm at 2% duty and at 12 psi, 6500 rpm, 12:1 about 68%. If you go too large the injector will not be able to "open and close" quick enough to get it to idle properly, so drivablity will suck. You can keep your idle at 2000, but it is hard to get a date with a car that runs like that.

That's where two baks of four injectors are useful: four stock for stock engine load and four more for fuelling outside of the stock map.

That's where two baks of four injectors are useful: four stock for stock engine load and four more for fuelling outside of the stock map.

I saw a c900 on here long ago that had four extra injectors controlled by megasquirt on it.

Boosted, that would be Spamj, long time since he's been on here though.
But guys, you really need to go seriously big before the injectors wont close proper anymore. I'm running 550cc injectors and I can lean the car so much out, that I get it to stall... It might not be easy to alter the idle in small bits, but it's doable...
Daniel.

....is right around the corner.

You've seen the turbo. You've seen the header. Now...


HUGE 3.5" thick Precision 350hp intercooler made in BEST COUNTRY IN WORLD USA! This FMIC uses a genuine Garrett core with cast aluminum Precision endtanks, and some of the nicest welds around. No cheap eBay crap here...

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050263_Large.sized.jpg



Americans make good intercoolers, and Italians make great shoes ;-)
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050254_Large.sized.jpg


Nice endtanks, 2.5" in/out
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050255_Large.sized.jpg


THICK:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050256_Large.sized.jpg


http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050262_Large.sized.jpg

Want more? Ok...

PaulH's MS-LH adapter!
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050251_Large.sized.jpg

Bosch LH connector:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050252_Large.sized.jpg
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050253_Large.sized.jpg


And a few other hawt pics:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050259_Large.sized.jpg
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050258_Large.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050257_Large.sized.jpg


Please excuse the extra dirty car... ;-)

Want more? Ok...

Stop takin' pictures, and start spannering!

IJ, you said that your fog lights are covered yellow with some kind of protective film ...
Is that film something special or just some generic transparent self-adhessive film?
How did you do it?

IJ, you said that your fog lights are covered yellow with some kind of protective film ...
Is that film something special or just some generic transparent self-adhessive film?
How did you do it?I just did my new E-codes with clear from X-PEL Technologies. It's 30 mil and supposed to handle quite a smack and still protect the glass. It comes in a bunch of colors and is easy to work with.

FMIC:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC130289_Large.sized.jpg

Yes, the center bar is going away.
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC130287_Large.sized.jpg


old vs new:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC130291_Large.sized.jpg


New turbo vs stock:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/PC130268_Large.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/PC130269_Large.sized.jpg


Header is ready to go on as soon as I fix the little "problem" of the off-center hole. Once it's slotted out, it will get installed along with the turbo (hopefully today!)

Mandrel bends are here, as are the flanges. Once the turbo is mounted we can start fabbing up the DP.

Dood, ur sabb is slo.

Seriously though, when are you going to give in like the rest of us and sell off your car?

I'll buy it :cheesy:.

Seriously though, when are you going to give in like the rest of us and sell off your car?

Not gonna happen man. This was my first car that I bought with money I scrimped and saved to afford back in high school, with my summer jobs. I've had this car for going on 7 years now! Nothing short of a four-door 9-3 with a cuztom toon could make me sell! ;)



Anyway, progress. Header is in. Turbo is in.

Had to slot the center hole, talked about that in the Header Thread (http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113966). Also had to cut the turbo/manifold bracket. No worries, it still does its job. I brought out my old stock turbo and a protractor, and got the angle that the new CHRA should sit at in relationship to the exhaust housing (so the oil lines bolt up perfectly). Clocked the compressor housing, but left it loose for the new FMIC install.

This turbo barely clears the block. :cheesy:

I also ordered a bunch of new silicone couplers from siliconeintakes.com. I went for a little better quality this time ;) so it wasn't as cheap as eBay last time, but I got some 90* bends, reducers, and couplers that I think I will need. All in black (you know me... I don't like too much flash :cool:


Pics of the install soon. Next up, build the DP.

Haha, cuztom toon. Where can I get one of those?!

Not gonna happen man. This was my first car that I bought with money I scrimped and saved to afford back in high school, with my summer jobs. I've had this car for going on 7 years now! Nothing short of a four-door 9-3 with a cuztom toon could make me sell! ;)


Oooh, below the belt.


The ref is going to take a point away.

:cheesy:

Seriously though, when are you going to give in like the rest of us and sell off your car?

i've been asked the same myself.

no way, never going to happen.
if i break another frame, i will be gutting another car.
i will be buying another c900. ('92 900 turbo 5 speed)

Here's some snaps of the header and turbo installed. I've also got the front bumper off for some... surgery, and to fab up the FMIC mounting brackets.
Enough talk:

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/PC170266.sized.jpg


http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/PC170268.sized.jpg


Compressor housing barely clears!
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/PC170269.sized.jpg



Test-fitting the EWG:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/PC170273.sized.jpg


http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/PC170270.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album106/PC170272.sized.jpg

Your engine makes me want to jump, for absolutely no reason.

Thanks, you just made me crap my pants, and I have to go to dinner at the ritz after work. Jerk.

What is that, a T25? :lol:

Oh sweet.


:)

Very, very nice - it's going to look very professional when finished and go like stink I should think.

Hybrid power all the way! I recently replaced the clutch and the cover must be sitting snugger, making the snake intake fit a bit better. My lord. It sounds like a 747. Yours'll be mental with the hood down :cheesy:

Are you planning on running a DIC with your MS?

Are you planning on running a DIC with your MS?

Not initially... I'm focusing on fuel first, then messing around with ignition.

Front bumper is cut. Center bar is gone. There's no going back :o

I don't have any pics at the moment, but I'll snap some tomorrow. Basically it's just what you'd expect, a larger hole and more flow for the new IC. It was a lot easier than I expected, and it really made me feel like it was meant for this option. I added a small amount of filler and will give it some paint tomorrow.

I also drilled holes in the IC mounting tabs and fabbed up some mild steel brackets for mounting. Pics of it installed soon.

eep! At least bold/weld on some sort of crossbeams so you're not completely naked out there!

OMGORDZ! You hacked up an AIRFLOW bumper! SIN!!

Actually, cool.

Lets see some PICS!

And random CAPITALIZED words!

U haxzorred a airflow bumper. Tho shun YOU!

Why bolt the new turbo onto the new manifold with old rusty bolts?

Why bolt the new turbo onto the new manifold with old rusty bolts?


Well when you spend all your best money on the internetz on all the goodies he bought its either baked beans for dinner or new bolts :p

Very damn impressive work joe, btw do you do all your own work or do you have a goon/s that help you out (welding, metal fab, etc.)

Well when you spend all your best money on the internetz on all the goodies he bought its either baked beans for dinner or new bolts :pWell, I'll probably clean them up before the final install. Items are getting sent of for Jet Hot coating after a while.


Very damn impressive work joe, btw do you do all your own work or do you have a goon/s that help you out (welding, metal fab, etc.)It's just my father and I.

Lots more progress. My car has never had a properly mounted oil cooler, for as long as I've owned it. It's just been hanging there, supported by the cooler lines and zip ties. A year or so ago I picked up the proper "mount" with the shrouding. I installed that today! Much nicer.

Also...

Intercooler mounted (with center bar removed and bumper paint touched up). It's a perfect fit!
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC270296.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC270298.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC270300.sized.jpg

New downpipe being built (tacked and yes, the famous duct tape method is back!)
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/PC270294.sized.jpg

Welded
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/PC280302.sized.jpg

Installed
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/PC280303.sized.jpg

Tomorrow we'll build the external wg dump.

Maaannn this car is comming on nicely...

I like the idea you have for the intercooler. Very good.

nice to see you are making progress! looks awesome, man.

i, on the other hand, am still pulling parts off my car and hoping to start putting stuff back together in the next day or two.

Oh, I thought you meant you were cutting out the metal part of the bumper for some reason, pls disregard my earlier comment about being naked out there.


Looks good!

thanks for the comments, guys! Here's the wg dump tube:

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/PC280294.sized.jpg


http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/PC280298.sized.jpg


http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/PC280300.sized.jpg

Saabsavior rally skid plate installed:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC280297.sized.jpg


And the bumper mounted up:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC280307.sized.jpg

looking Great! My EWG dumps out just like yours will. Its rather loud when on it but makes people look!:D Jeff P

looking Great! My EWG dumps out just like yours will. Its rather loud when on it but makes people look!:D Jeff P

Thanks Jeff... an honor coming from you! Your car has definitely been an inspiration for me ever since I entered the c900 world 7 years ago.

Sound clips will be a must :cheesy:

That skid plate looks a bit different from the others I've seen from them. Anywho, looks damn fine. Can't wait to see it on the road. Did you get my PM?

That skid plate looks a bit different from the others I've seen from them. Anywho, looks damn fine. Can't wait to see it on the road. Did you get my PM?

Oh yeah? What part is different? Maybe I should have taken a picture with the bumper off, perhaps it's confusing you :cheesy:

EDIT:
sorry, forgot about yer pm :cool:

A bit more progress. We added the o2 bungs for stock sensor and wideband, the wideband will be mounted far far away down by the axle to keep it from overheating. The narrowband will sit in a fairly stock location.

Thanks to xassh and his o2 sensor location problems, I planned mine out very carefully :lol:

Also, to add a little "show" to all this "go", I finally got my hands on the later (92-up) 5-piece convertible spoiler. This is the spoiler that wraps all the way around and goes up to the doors. I originally wanted this setup because it cover some of the weatherstripping on the doors that ruins the lines of the car, however what I didn't know is that the new spoiler is over TWICE the size!! This is truly the 'whaletail' for the convertible.

I'll post pics soon, but it's a great addition. I am shocked to find out how large it is compared to the stock '87 one.

Just bought some new injectors.... that's the 5th set this car has had. I had stock, 24lb bluetops, 30lb redtops, 34lb trionic redtops, and now....

60lb Siemens Deka injectors!

These little monsters will definitely give me enough fuel for my hardware. Probably more than I will need, however after being tired of maxing out every fuel injector I have ever installed I am ready for overkill!

The best part, however, is that they match my engine bay :cheesy: You know I don't like flashy colors.

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album49/siemens60.jpg

They are high impedance.

Awaiting pics!!! :D

ps. gimmeuroldinjectorzplz!

what fogs are those the ones that came with the bumper?

Sorry if this is off topic but, just out of curiosity are the stock injectors high impedance or low impedance?

P.S. Car looks great.

Sorry if this is off topic but, just out of curiosity are the stock injectors high impedance or low impedance?

P.S. Car looks great.

the stockers are High impedance.

Paul

Injectors are here.

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album49/IMAGE_136.sized.jpg


Also I have finally settled down on a plan for my standalone. I'm going to install MS fuel control first, get that running. Then I will install a crank trigger wheel and hook up ford EDIS for ignition, thereby chucking the distributor and not having to worry about my oversized turbo cooking the internals.

And the new goal is 300whp, or the most powerful convertible c900 in America. Whichever comes first ;)

High-Z!

Cool.

And the new goal is 300whp, or the most powerful convertible c900 in America. Whichever comes first ;)Speaking of which, I wonder if Raul's gotten on a dyno yet.

edit - of course, he doesn't have a convertible...

OK, fail again IronJoe, your mailbox is full. :lol:

Well, he didn't have any five peice spoilers - no joy

I did get some fender trim, I need two only, I think I got three or four, though. I'm gonna snag s'more next week. How many do you need?

Also, do you know if the front ones are different from the back, and are they symmetrical (ie, will they work on both sides)?

Speaking of which, I wonder if Raul's gotten on a dyno yet.

edit - of course, he doesn't have a convertible...

I suppose someone had to mention him eventually!

300 whp?



Costco?

Made some progress this weekend.

Injectors are in.
Bosch LH ecu is out.
IAT bung is in.

I also picked up thicker front & rear swaybars. I'll probably just install the rear, and feel it out.

I started designing my EDIS coilpack mounting brackets, looks like it's going to be a clean installation.

Next week I'll be picking up my limited slip differential. Probably won't get installed til summer.

EDIT: Almost forgot - squaab is building me a set of front adjustable springs to my specs... The rear is low enough as is, so I will have the ability to SLAM the front end when necessary :cheesy:

Looks like some solid work. What LSD are you getting?

Quaife.

http://www.abbottracing.com/photos/product24.jpg

You going to the cruise?

Nice. Gorper has one of those and it is amazing. I need something different for gravel work or so I've been told.

Won't be at the cruise-in -- we'll be leaving Kirkland at 0800 for Alcan start that morning. Hoping to see some good pics of that gathering though.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2372/2259014480_a078e7ef7e_o.jpgelkpartselkparts

Sorry to reply with just a smiley, but: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :cheesy:

Hilarity.


My fave part is the crossed out super aero. Jellus ftw.

On a serious note, in regard to your anticipated "fastest vert in U.S.A." status, what about that guy with the red vert that has the gt30 and the n/a 9000 intake manifold sticking out of the hood?

On a serious note, in regard to your anticipated "fastest vert in U.S.A." status, what about that guy with the red vert that has the gt30 and the n/a 9000 intake manifold sticking out of the hood?

He's on a jsp stage II chip and 34lb injectors. In order to really compete he'd need standalone.

IMHO.

He's on a jsp stage II chip and 34lb injectors. In order to really compete he'd need standalone.

IMHO.He does have like 30 gauges, each adding 15 whp. That's tought to beat.

You would still be faster with your new ajustable springs and getting lower to the ground.

ps

ok, here are the pics. there are many more, so go take a look in the gallery for the full meal deal. Here's a preview:

engine bay with new intake pipe + battery relocation
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album68/P1010172.sized.jpg

new IC piping
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album68/P1010174.sized.jpg


Can you please tell me what is the air filter you have? what is the size?? I want to buy one but i have no idea how big, and the size...
Plz help.

Mati:-)

It doesn't really matter exactly what size it is, as long as it has a 3" inside diameter on the part that hooks up to the AMM, and it fits in the engine bay. There's really a lot of options out there, just get a tape measure and find out what will fit.

Well I finally sold enough parts to buy my MS... All the work done so far has been the physical wiring, etc. I went back and forth about which PCB to get, etc, but in the end I went with the standard v2.2 MS1, along with the 4 bar map sensor.

I don't know if I'll be going over 21psi with this turbo but it's a possibility, so that's why the overkill 4 bar map sensor is there. This is the assembled unit BTW.


In other news, I picked up the quaife LSD this weekend. It's pretty :cheesy:

Pics of ceramic coated shiny stuff to come...

Flippin 'eck - I suppose you don't have anyone sensible around to tell you when to stop. This is already quite a car, by the time you've finished nothing with a rag top will touch it. Keep it up - nice job chum.

First page updated, thanks matthew!

DETAILS PLEASE! What are you doing for the harness? Are just adding to the factory one? I'm too particular to do that. I think I am going to modify a stock harness so I have a nice clean factory looking install. I also know I am going to remove/use some of the wiring for the ignition, and remove the APC....need to get knock sense and a good MBC.....

Also Got myself a trigger wheel from a Ford Explorer with a 3.0 YAY

Using the factory saab harness with PaulH's LH to MS adapter:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/PC050251_Large.sized.jpg

This plugs into the stock location. The only other wires to run are for the IAT sensor and the wideband o2.

As for ignition, I'm not there yet but I did pull the complete harness for the EDIS... most people just cut it out of the car but I took time to remove the entire thing. So there is a lot of flexibility there.

What is the diameter of the explorer trigger wheel? I am leaning towards one from DIYautotune, but if the explorer one will work.... why not!


DIYautotune guys are pretty helpful... I told them I was going the EDIS route and the went ahead and made the mods to the board for me in addition to installing MS extra firmware. I'm quite chuffed, really. (what does that mean again?)

Placed my order for the Innovate wideband o2. Looking at my "to buy" list, it looks like I have just about everything I need for getting MS fuel control installed!

-MS ecu
-2.1 TB
-9k IAT
-wideband o2
-MS/LH adapter
-4 bar MAP sensor
-laptop
-db9 to USB cable


Hooray.

They guys at DIYautotune work fast! I ordered on Friday and got my package yesterday! Very excited to get this going.

*sigh* unfortunately, I've lost my 2.1L throttle body :roll: It's somewhere in this sea of Saab parts... If I don't find it soon it'll definitely become a roadblock! grrrr

Easy there ranger... The throttle-body isn't needed before quite late in the installation, and in general is only used for boost-control, enrichments and overrun-cut off.
Daniel.

Easy there ranger... The throttle-body isn't needed before quite late in the installation, and in general is only used for boost-control, enrichments and overrun-cut off.
Daniel.


The car currently doesn't have a throttle body installed.... :lol: :o

Got my downpipe and wastegate dump tube back from the ceramic coaters.

Pics:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_185.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_184.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_187.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_186.sized.jpg




I didn't grind down the welds all the way, so it's not a perfectly smooth finish but I'm very happy with the way it turned out. Can't wait to install it!


EDIT:
Forgot to mention... t's not just an exterior finish, they coat the INSIDE of the tubing as well to hold the heat in. It's a 2000* finish in "fresh blast" which is supposed to create a freshly sandblasted look. I may do my valve cover in this same color.

B@ST@RD! At least I'll have my Weber for bragging rights....Could luck squeezing 300 hp through that tiny TB...hehe....looks awesome though, I'm itching to go with an EWG and re make my 3" from lessons I learned

Awesome job

4 throttle bodies anyone? :cheesy:

4 throttle bodies anyone? :cheesy:

Shhhhhhhhh that's 2009.

Could luck squeezing 300 hp through that tiny TB...hehe....
Agree, looks awesome!
But regards to TB, I don't see any trouble in that at all...
Know of 400hp through standard bore throttle-body, shouldn't be an issue at all...
Daniel

Looks awesome Joe!!

Every week is like Christmas for you and your Saab. :p

Every week is like 9/11 for you and your wallet. :p

Fixed.speedparts

Um, we should think of it more as: " When like hands you lemons, you ask for salt and tequila."

Or: When life gives you lemons, make lemonade...then throw it in the eyes of the jerk that gave you lemons instead of oranges, then KICK him if the Willies and take what you need from life!:cheesy:

I figured I'd pull an amish_geek and update this with my 'todo' list.

Sitting in my garage are the following:
-Quaife LSD
-Saabrally Steel Diff Cover
-MS v2.2 Assembled ECU w/MAP Daddy 4Bar MAP sensor & EDIS mods
-Innvoate LC-1 Wideband
-Ceramic coated downpipe & wg dump
-9000 IAT
-EDIS coilpacks
-EDIS plug wires
-EDIS VR sensor
-EDIS control module
-wiring harness
-5-piece convertible "whaletail" spoiler
-Oil catch can
-upgraded rear swaybar

Waiting to Arrive:
-HKS SSQV 2007 redesign
-Custom turbo oil return spout
-2.1L throttle body
-SaabSavior short-throw shifter
-Adjustable front springs

Need to Order still:
-36-1 trigger wheel

This is going to be fun.

Details on this rear swaybar? Where from?

SAS. Bought the front and rear, but my front is going to be too stiff b/c of the new springs that I'll probably just install the rear and sell the front.

Yay! I am a part of this car. The throttle body should be there in a few days.

Hotness.

Throttle body is in. Coated DP is in. 3" Test Pipe in. WG dump is in. Oil catch can.


http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_211.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_212.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_217.sized.jpg


http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_213.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_218.sized.jpg

Looks very nice joe, still awaiting the plain-ticket to come over and do MS with you, where's it at???
Daniel.

Looks good, champ!

Is that T-Shirt there in shame? :p

Haha no, the valve cover is being refinished right now and I didn't want to drop anything down the head or timing chain area, hence the t-shirt.

Ain't no shame in my game ;)

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_217.sized.jpg


Where did you get that?


And how are you going to route your lines to it?

It's the ATP version 3 oil catch can. I'm running it as a draw-through, so all the stock line to the intake (with coolant around it) will remain intact. This will be in-line between the valve cover and the intake tubing.

EDIT:

Link here (http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=tp&Product_Code=ATP-ACS-018&Category_Code=BCS)

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/Catalog%20Images/Accessories/ATP-ACS-018_450-1.jpg

Another pic:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album113/IMAGE_216.sized.jpg




I'll post some more when the lines are routed.

I am planning on having my car running on MS by the end of the week. We'll see what happens.


I am currently installing the wideband and running lines for the IAT. I just received some parts I was waiting on for the 3" intake, so I'll tackle that as well.

Also my new HKS just arrived, this is the 2007 redesign that's supposed to be really good. We'll see.

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/IMAGE_224.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album56/IMAGE_223.sized.jpg

When you get your ignition sorted with MS I demand a howto thread.:D

No prob.

IAT is wired up. Wideband is installed. Fuel pump circuit mod complete on MS box. MS box attached to adapter via a plastic plate (I was anal about the mounting holes...)

Tomorrow will be fun :cheesy:

Blam
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/IMAGE_225.sized.jpg

Lots of progress. First, engine bay is pretty much buttoned up except for the valve cover. It's late, and I'm going to have to use an old one to do MS testing until it gets here.

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3230331.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3230330.sized.jpg

Next to the MS install. It's in, however without a valve cover I haven't been able to start it yet. It's in, and successfully connected with the laptop and getting readings from the sensors. Yay.

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3230324.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3230325.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3230328.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3230329.sized.jpg

More pics. Here's a closeup of the new intake setup.
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3230321.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3230323.sized.jpg



And the catch can plumbed.
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3240337.sized.jpg


I also added the new spoiler. Just did the rear wing today, I'll tackle the side pieces later.
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3240338.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3240339.sized.jpg

Nice! Looks exciting

That throttle body looks good ;)

I know where to get a big vert spoiler, should I get it?

Meh. It's not really worth it.

Great success! What maps are you going to run for the fire-up? Also, is the IAT welded in or jb-weld?

It all looks really superb and well thought out, nice job IJ.

Great success! What maps are you going to run for the fire-up? Also, is the IAT welded in or jb-weld?

IAT and the HKS flange are both welded on. No shortcuts or quick fixes this time around. I'm taking my time to do it right.

Thanks for the comments all!


EDIT: I am using a recent map for DeLorean's SPG to fire it up. I've loaded the HiRes code to run the big*** 60lb/hr injectors, and I've scaled the map up. Hopefully I did it correctly :cheesy:

So its a case of getting a threaded boss with the right thread for the IAT. Hmm.
Could you post the map up? I want to scale it for my current injectors and see how much headroom I have.

<edit> I see the bung for IAT is available on diyautotune, but I'd like to avoid shipping it from the states. </edit>

I have a few maps lying around as well if you guys need it...
Daniel.

Well it started, sort of. For a while.

I used Jeff's map from his SPG and input the value for my 60lb injectors. It started after a while, ran like it was on 3 cylinders and didn't idle. Had to keep my foot on the gas.

After coming back from lunch, it won't start at all http://www.saablink.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif I'm hoping that it's just a tired battery (cranking around 160rpm) so I'm going to charge it up and try again soon.

Daniel if you could post a map for me to try that'd be great. I am currently trying to figure out why on earth the car won't fire up anymore.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, when it was running the entire time the o2 sensor readings were SUPER rich, like 7:1 to 10:1

Well it started, sort of. For a while.

I used Jeff's map from his SPG and input the value for my 60lb injectors. It started after a while, ran like it was on 3 cylinders and didn't idle. Had to keep my foot on the gas.

After coming back from lunch, it won't start at all http://www.saablink.net/forum/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif I'm hoping that it's just a tired battery (cranking around 160rpm) so I'm going to charge it up and try again soon.

Daniel if you could post a map for me to try that'd be great. I am currently trying to figure out why on earth the car won't fire up anymore.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, when it was running the entire time the o2 sensor readings were SUPER rich, like 7:1 to 10:1

Pull the plugs and see if they are all getting fuel. If one is missing spark it will be soaking in fuel. Burn off the excess with a propane torch. Pull the fuel pump fuse and turn the starter 15 sec without the plugs. This will get rid of the flooding if any. Check to see if you have the plug wires going to the correct cap location. When you had it "running" how long? Did the O2 sensor have a chance to warm up? I know it has a heater (hooked up?), but the exhaust heat is what it was really looking for. If you can get it to idle and it still sounds like 3 cylinders pull a connector off 1 injector at a time and listen for change. If no change that would be your suspect cylinder. I'm not sure how the MS fuel maps work but my system has an air and H2O temp compensation. Check those to see if you are not too rich. I also have a trim function that lowers the injector scale without having to drop the whole map. Those mondo injectors might require some tweeking of the map at the lower end. Keep working it, you are getting closer.

Thanks Dennis.

After the few times it started, I wasn't able to get it going again the entire rest of the day. Plugs were soaked. I am convinced that I am simply dumping way way way too much fuel in when trying to start. I am currently playing with the cranking pulse width in order to get the injectors to behave.

Compounding the issue is the fact that I ran down two batteries and two jumpers. Lots of cranking happening here. Once I get it to fire up reliably, I can scale the fuel maps and play with all that.

When it was "running" it wasn't long enough for the wideband o2 to warm up, I think. I forgot about that.

there also might be a cold cranking enrichment. Check that too. You are holding off on ignition?, so that should be still stock? Is the dist in jive with cylinder 1 at TDC?

If you have the lc-1 hooked up to the logworks software, and have the guage on screen, it will show you the sensor warming up. Takes about 30 seconds from cold.
I'd say she'll fire up fine when you get the cranking pw's sorted. If you used a full msq file from someone else, the cranking pw's may not have been re-scaled for your injectors.

Joe, can you provide me with your current MSQ? I'll look into it, and correct anything if I see errors... Much easier to have a look at it on my own computer... I can then compare it to my own map, using 550cc injectors, and to other 16v maps...
Daniel.

Check your REQ_FUEL figure.

The cranking pw is independent of the REQ_FUEL, and I think this is the problem - its probably set for smaller injectors.

Yup, I scaled the req fuel for the new injectors. Haven't even gotten to use it yet since the car won't get past cranking!

I have been doing some reading and it looks like I need to mess with the cranking PW and also possibly the injector opening time, as they are so large.

Daniel, PM me your email address?


Here's the cranking settings, unaltered from delorean's msq. I have since been fiddling with the numbers in the table.
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/cranking.png


Here's the req fuel after I imported the size of the new injectors:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/injector_constants.png

Ahh, I see things I would change...
Got the email Aaron, will look into it tonight (which is during the next few hours here in Denmark).
Would help things if you add me to MSN with the email-adress you sent your MSQ to... IRL talk might remove mistakes... :)
Daniel.

Ok, a few things to test:
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8990/ironjoe1qe1.jpg
(http://profile.imageshack.us/user/saab_daniel)
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/6506/ironjoe2rn8.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/636/ironjoe3xo4.jpg

Try these settings out, and return... I take it you are using 4 injectors, and both injector-drivers?
I'm driving mine as alternating and 2 injections pr. cycle, along with a very different "More cranking stuff" settings.

Ohh, and yeah, the pictures are crappy, ignore the cut-outs and missing cut-outs... ;)
And yes, I typed your information into the req-fuel to check that also... :)
Looking forward to hearing back, my car fired right up with these settings, both with red-tops and the 550cc's.
Daniel.

It starts. It runs. After a new optima battery, hotter plugs, and settings from Saab-Daniel regarding cranking pulse widths, it runs! I scaled down those big injectors enough to get it to run.

Thanks everybody who helped out! I will be spending time tuning it soon.

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album122/P3270322.sized.jpg




Running on MS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmoB_-__zg0

A few lessons learned:
-RTFM ironjoe! I didn't read the installation manual for the wideband correctly and accidently hooked up the yellow wire on the LC-1 which is the narrowband simulator. D'oh! Gotta use the brown wire which is the actual wideband signal.
Dummy.

-I accidently pinched the vac hose closed to the map sensor when I mounted the MS box. So I wasn't getting a MAP reading. Dummy.

-The 5-piece convertible spoiler is turning into a nightmare. Totally not worth it.

-The new header sounds great in person.

-Couldn't have done it without all you guys on SC and TSL! Special thanks to DeLorean, PaulH, Saab-Daniel, KeithG and everybody else!

Congrads, It took me a few days and a lot of calls to au to get mine to run and idle. Now the fun begins; Tuning, if you do on the road make sure you have one person drive and another tune. On a desserted road we did a bunch of 2nd gear pulls, WTO all the way to redline with the datalogger going. Pull over tweek the fuel map and save as a new file like 03-29-08, 03-29-08a and so on. You can also do this on the dyno but at 100$/hr I'd get it the ballpark first. Does MS have an autotune function?

wuhuu, sweet mate... Sounds like it just was a question of settings then! :)

Megasquirt does have an autotune function, but starting with a saab-map should easy things up. Also, WOT-tuning is the easy part, it's getting partial load right that takes up all the time...!
Have fun tuning, should take up all your sunday! :)
Daniel.

Ohh, byt the way, RTFM again, regarding your LC-1, you can just program either te brown or the yellow wire to suit your needs, that's the beauty, programmable stuff rules...Think I will be getting this unit for the 9k aero:
http://shop.vems.hu/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1&products_id=101&osCsid=7b5e0fbfabafe30f24b55b609783734c

Measuring both EGT and AFR in the same gauge is awesome...
Is it just me, or is there no sound in the video you posted?
Nice to have yet another MS'er on the forum, you gotta love it... ;)
Daniel.

congrats on getting her up and running! Makes my lack of progress this weekend look even more pathetic..

Yeah I fail at youtube apparently.

The autotune feature with the AFR targets looks like a good way to go for the tuning, at least to get a good baseline. I'll probably tune it for base boost, then step the boost up bit by bit with an MBC.

It sure is fun tweaking the settings! After it's running decent, I'll tackle stage two - EDIS. :o

Joe, your car is epic! I wanna drive it so bad!

Thanks for the encouraging comments all. There is much work to be done!

Apparently when I first got it running it was VERY rich, I attempted to rev it up in neutral and shot a flame two feet long from the exhaust tip :o

Looking good. About how much time would you say you've invested in MS'ing up your car?

About four days? Not counting gathering parts, and stuff like getting the IAT bung welded on, etc. Just installation and getting it to run, probably four days.

I took my time to solder all connections, and I thought out the routing of wires and vac hoses carefully. But really, having the LH -> MS connector took HOURS and HOURS out of the process, as well as starting with a pre-built MS box! Without the adapter, and a pre-built box there's no way on earth I'd even consider doing this. Contact PaulH for details, it's well worth the price he is charging.

Hehe, well, agree with the assembling the MS-unit, and of course you can save time on the wiring with the connector, but I really think the wiring is easy, I'm doing my fathers right now (9k automatic) and will say that 3-4 hours will do almost everything, have used 1˝ know, and I have fitted the unit, and pulled the wires to their correct location, and soldered the wires to connectors, so it's easy exchangeable with the LH-system...
If the wiring-part is what that is putting you off installing megasquirt, then this is definetly worth every penny...
Joe, have you taken the first drive yet?
Monitor the AFR closely, aswell with the knock-led, you should be golden... :)
Daniel.

Silly question - would the ignition maps used for ignition control that you and philb are using work with EDIS?

And no I haven't really driven it yet - just around the backyard :cheesy:

Silly question - would the ignition maps used for ignition control that you and philb are using work with EDIS?

And no I haven't really driven it yet - just around the backyard :cheesy:

Lucky B@5tar0 having proven Saab base map to start from puts you light years ahead. You inspired me yesterday to do some tuning, and after warm up I got it to idle great after 2 years of tweaking. This afternoon I worked on the temp compensations from 36 degrees F to running temp. Kept an eye on the A/F and raised and lowered the % compensation in each temp block. My problem I was chasing my tail with the fuel enrichenment on and was never able the get a nice steady idle. I set it to 0% when I tuned at steady state. (it's on the manual);oops:

I haven't played with the enrichment settings based on coolant temps, but it looks pretty straightforward.

You can check it out next week!

It's easy, it's an issue of providing enough fuel to start with, then decrease it slowly. I don't care that my car runs rich for the short period of warm-up, if it runs better rich...

And yeah, not too bad to start out from working saab-maps:)
Daniel.

Yup Ironjoe, the maps will work for you. I used daniels and kaas's maps for a base, but changed them quite a bit. I found there was too much ignition advance for my setup.
I'd recommend you try my map for a start - it basically amounts to a map for a stock c900, and since your setup will have a lot less tendency to knock, you'll be starting off from a safe point, you can then dial in more advance at the top end.

I recommend you keep your turbo at base boost for a while, and just see how much extra power you can get by adding ignition advance :)

You can see on this map that at full boost, I'm running standard ignition advance, but more advance at low and medium boost.

http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/megasquirt/rev3sparkmap.PNG

File is here:

http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/megasquirt/philtable5.vex

Just looking at that table - theres too much advance at idle. I think I've changed that now, to around 16 - 18 degrees.

Can I just say that your work is an inspiration - you've motivated me to get my megasquirt install finished, I even brought my spare ecu to work today so I could work on the adapter :)

Can I just say that your work is an inspiration - you've motivated me to get my megasquirt install finished

Yep, I'll second that. I'm itching to figure out what's going on with my ECU (cpu seems to have lost the program), drag it out of the jiffy bag, and actually think about putting it on a car!

Thanks phil, what MAP sensor are you running?


EDIT:
Another reason to switch to MS... now that the AMM is gone and I'm using a MAP sensor, no problems stalling out after blowing off boost with a BOV! :cheesy:

as far as I know, its a 3 bar, but the laptop is at home, I'd have to check. It doesn't make any difference for that though, thats just a .vex file that you important in the spark map editor, its not a full msg file. So you can just change the kPa values to suit your setup ( 1 bar boost is a reasonable maximum for me right now ).

Well the first day of road tuning was a success. I used the AFR targets from DeLorean's base map, and used the Autotune feature. It worked very well for part-throttle driving, although Autotune definitely kept it too rich at idle.

Thoughts:

-This car sounds incredible. The header DID keep some burble.

-There is a miss slightly when boost comes on, I believe it is an ignition issue. I am running stock timing (16) but a modded advance unit, so timing is way too retarded on boost (like 6-8*). I set the timing to stock 16* when I was having trouble getting it started. I will set it back to 20* or so and check it out.

-The atmospheric wastegate dump is SCARY loud. Videos with sound are a must.

-This turbo is huge and it spools SLOW! Anything under 3500 RPM you can forget accelerating. It's almost comical.

-Even at base boost the car screams. I am literally frightened to drive it when fully tuned.

Well the first day of road tuning was a success. I used the AFR targets from DeLorean's base map, and used the Autotune feature. It worked very well for part-throttle driving, although Autotune definitely kept it too rich at idle.

Thoughts:

-This car sounds incredible. The header DID keep some burble.

-There is a miss slightly when boost comes on, I believe it is an ignition issue. I am running stock timing (16) but a modded advance unit, so timing is way too retarded on boost (like 6-8*). I set the timing to stock 16* when I was having trouble getting it started. I will set it back to 20* or so and check it out.

-The atmospheric wastegate dump is SCARY loud. Videos with sound are a must.

-This turbo is huge and it spools SLOW! Anything under 3500 RPM you can forget accelerating. It's almost comical.

-Even at base boost the car screams. I am literally frightened to drive it when fully tuned.

Very cool, drove it on the road... Any flame out the wastegate? :cheesy: Wait until you get control of the spark, that is were the real torque comes from. I took a co-worker for a ride in my 900t. Said he had not felt his head throw back like that since he had his 5.0l V8 Mustang. :D

Definetly, the slow turbo-spool will be altered dramatically when you move on to ignition as well.

Daniel

Well the first day of road tuning was a success. I used the AFR targets from DeLorean's base map, and used the Autotune feature. It worked very well for part-throttle driving, although Autotune definitely kept it too rich at idle.

Thoughts:

-This car sounds incredible. The header DID keep some burble.

-There is a miss slightly when boost comes on, I believe it is an ignition issue. I am running stock timing (16) but a modded advance unit, so timing is way too retarded on boost (like 6-8*). I set the timing to stock 16* when I was having trouble getting it started. I will set it back to 20* or so and check it out.

-The atmospheric wastegate dump is SCARY loud. Videos with sound are a must.

-This turbo is huge and it spools SLOW! Anything under 3500 RPM you can forget accelerating. It's almost comical.

-Even at base boost the car screams. I am literally frightened to drive it when fully tuned.

cool! as i remember, at least with the older version of autotune, we had issues with it making it way too lean off boost, and just ended up tuning that part manually. It did work well for fine adjustment on boost though, maybe they've corrected the cruise part since we used it last.

Paul

Excellent stuff. Any chance of another video, with sound? :cheesy:

Excellent stuff. Any chance of another video, with sound? :cheesy:

Ugh, I fail. I took two more vids last night and they both ended up without sound. :x

How about a video of the speedo while acceleration thru the gears.

TIA

I'm not doing any more videos until I get a camera with sound :roll:

Tuning is going well, I've been editing the map manually to get the idle A/F leaner, so it doesn't blow smoke :cheesy:

Also playing with the after start enrichment, it now fires up and idles remarkably like stock. I'm pretty dang shocked at how well this has gone.


The one problem is, I'm getting a "miss" on boost. I played with my timing yesterday but that didn't solve it... it's intermittent, doesn't happen every time. When it happens, it doesn't allow boost to build properly.

I still believe this is ignition related, I am going to play with the vac capsule a bit today and see if I can't get results. It occurs part-to-full throttle as boost is building, but eventually goes away as the RPMs increase. Hmmm.

Anybody know at what boost pressure the vac capsule changes the retard?

Changes as soon as you go into boost, almost... 0.1-0.2 bar, the retarding happens. Just fit dizzy ignition-control and be done with... It will only take like 2 hours work, then you're ready...
Daniel

Naaah, once my trigger wheel gets here I'll be ripping out the dist anyway and installing EDIS. So no point really. I just want to isolate this problem.

Then drive without ignition-control!
But try adjust ignition to 10 degrees, and take a drive without the vacum-capsule connected... You can now drive the car, will be slow off boost, but quite alright on boost. :)
Daniel.

Joe,

Love your thread. I have been following it avidly. Your success has me leaning towards MS this summer rather than the previous commercial Standalone that I was using previously. It will be good to piggyback on your efforts.

Gregg

Thanks Gregg! Feel free to stop by and check it out sometime.

And if you go MS I can help as well, after all the help I've got here!

Yo, could you post your fuel map up, and also Deloreans. Is it much altered from what Delorean gave you? I'm hoping to get the car mapped ASAP :)
<edit> I see you mention using the AFR target table from Deloreans map. Did you use the VE table as well, or create it from scratch? </edit>

Sure phil! My table is edited quite a bit for those biggie-size injectors. Probably not of much use to you.

PM me your email addy.

Well the theory is that only the req_fuel value should be different between different sized injectors. I'm working off a value of 11.7ms, I'd guess you are around 5ms. The VE table itself should be the same ( at low-mid kpa values at least ).

Well the theory is that only the req_fuel value should be different between different sized injectors. I'm working off a value of 11.7ms, I'd guess you are around 5ms. The VE table itself should be the same ( at low-mid kpa values at least ).

yup thats the theory anyway, in practice, bigger injectors take longer to open, and to make them deliver the right amount of fuel the VE table is adjusted. Its really not terribly hard to tune with megasquirt, even from scratch, as long as you have a good wideband 02 sensor, and some reasonable target AFRs. So when are we gonna see a dyno sheet for this beast?

Paul

well depending on when this SCS dyno day is supposed to happen, I might dyno with fuel control. From my butt dyno, I'm pretty confident it'd put down around 200whp on base boost.

I'm working on the design for my VR sensor bracket, but I really need to play with an engine that's out of a car. The 'real deal' dyno will happen once MS is controlling ignition and boost as well as fuel.

Boost control looks pretty easy to implement.

What you are saying makes plenty of sense - IronJoe's VE table seems to have a far greater range of VE %'s than others I've seen ( which I think were using 340-440cc injectors. )
But everyone seems to use 1ms for injector opening time.. I wonder if theres a way to figure it out.

My main mistake right now is that I've not switched on autotune yet. The manual is a bit confusing in that regard, but I'll just switch it on this evening and see what happens. AFR table is good to go.

Larger injectors take longer to open. That's why you'd need to alter the injector opening time. I set mine to 1.1 but it didn't make a difference, so I believe I switched it back.

Phil, have you seen one of my later msq's? That sports 550cc injectors.
I adjusted my VE-table as well, but wasn't a great adjustment, mostly @ idle, really.
Hope you get it running mate...!
Daniel.

Small updates:

First, I still can't figure out why the car "flutters". I've tested the BOV and wastegate which are the two suspects for preventing boost from building. It happens right around 5 psi. What's interesting is, if I hold my foot down the boost will eventually build (more slowly, while fluttering) and then "overcome" the problem and spool up like a properly functioning turbo would. This makes me think that it is somehow boost related, which makes me think that there is a spot in the fuel map that is less than optimal - perhaps it's too rich in one area, causing the car to misfire? I am occasionally getting backfire out of the WG dump (fireworks FTW). When on boost I believe it's around 11:1 AFR, which I assumed was ok. I will attempt to lean out the VE table in small increments and attempt to measure the results.

Also, engine bay:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album129/IMAGE_261.sized.jpg

Also, engine bay:
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album129/IMAGE_261.sized.jpg

Can't you do something about the boots on the aircon overtemp sensor's connectors? They're the one bit of non-monochrome in that pic, and stand out like a sore thumb.

Oh - and your washer bottle is a disgrace. I bet Matthew has put his through the dishwasher.

I'm going to eliminate that, as I don't have air conditioning. You UK fellows have access to the non-AC radiator hose, but in the US we don't. I'll be filling up an order to PFS and I'll pick it up then, which will get rid of that whole sensor.

Also my redtop optima battery is red. Boo. :roll:

I'm going to eliminate that, as I don't have air conditioning. You UK fellows have access to the non-AC radiator hose, but in the US we don't.

Yeh, we have to buy the non-A/C hose then chop a bit out...

Also my redtop optima battery is red. Boo. :roll:

Your careful composition and framing of the photo (to not include the boot?) hid it effectively...

You should make a custom washer resevoir cover.

Also my redtop optima battery is red. Boo. :roll:
Plastic primer. Anthracite grey aerosol. Go to it. :cheesy:

I'm going to eliminate that, as I don't have air conditioning. You UK fellows have access to the non-AC radiator hose, but in the US we don't. I'll be filling up an order to PFS and I'll pick it up then, which will get rid of that whole sensor.

Also my redtop optima battery is red. Boo. :roll:
Another option is to repurpose it. I cut the leads off, drilled out the center, and tapped it for an aux water temp sensor.

New wheels on the way. w00ts.

http://www.discountedwheelwarehouse.com/Images/Platinum-Xcess.jpg

Do they have the spinning centres or are they just the normal ones?

Over-bling! :o

New wheels on the way. w00ts.

http://www.discountedwheelwarehouse.com/Images/Platinum-Xcess.jpg

<points, laughs>
Pimptastic. And not in a good way.

Ok ok, you got me. Not THOSE wheels, but yes, new wheels are in transit. ;)

Those would go well with your total debadge. ;)

Did you buy a set of 16" aeros?

Did you buy a set of 16" aeros?

Stop taking the p*"", you know he can't fit them.

hahahahh.. oh well.

Wheels arrived. Pics when tires are mounted. Hint - they're the wrong bolt pattern ;)

Turbo is getting unbolted and sent out for a resizing, and the turbine housing & header will be ceramic coated. This dang thing isn't gonna be roadworthy for a while... :confused:

In other news I'm getting hooked up with a gm900 T5 head.

In other news I'm getting hooked up with a gm900 T5 head.

In the process check out

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1247057#post1247057

So what are the final specs of your resized turbo going to be?

So what are the final specs of your resized turbo going to be?

Hybrid Garrett T3/T04E
.60 compressor housing
.63 exhaust housing
46 trim compressor wheel
stage III exhaust wheel


Keeping the same size housings & exhaust turbine wheel. Physical dimensions of the unit are identical.

Sounds more and less than my set up. Very good. That 46 trim compressor wheel should keep your power between 3500-5500 rpm and keep you in the center of the efficiency range, with little lag from the stage III turbine.I can hear the spool up all the way up here IJ:cheesy:

ps

But not on the car. Tires are mounted, wheels are balanced. However, my spacers aren't done :sadpanda: So I slapped em on the viggen for some pics.

These are the closeups of the wheels. They were curbed badly and I refinished them. It was a DIY and turned out pretty good if I do say myself. Tires are 225/45R17.

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album130/P5150355.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album130/P5150358.sized.jpg

http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album130/P5150360.sized.jpg




I used 2 coats of high-build primer, 4 coats of silver wheel paint, and 3 coats of wheel clearcoat. I didn't take any before pictures, as their condition was much too embarassing ;oops:

Sweet! Can't wait to see these on the car.

Car is registered and driving. It's been off the road for 9 months and it is happy to be back. I forgot how nice convertibles are in the sun!

Now that I can *legally* drive it, the tuning situation is coming along. My only issue is that my wideband fouls up and needs to be recalibrated constantly. I never installed the pushbutton (rethinking this now) so fresh-air calibration requires removal of the sensor, disconnect, power up, power off, reconnect, power up, power off, install sensor. UGH. Very lame. Anyone else have this problem with the LC-1??

EDIT: I also painted the mesh in my grille black. I like it better.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk64/ironjoet16s/grillE/IMAGE_303.jpg

Its not difficult to wire in the button. I'm at the stage now where I think I'll wire the button and led inside the car.
Mesh looks sweet.. any chance you could photoshop my car to have body coloured grill and same mesh? :) http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/detail/galleryData/medium-DSC03978.JPG

How’s it riding with the front spring setup?

I have a set waiting to go on, just waiting on shocks.

Its not difficult to wire in the button. I'm at the stage now where I think I'll wire the button and led inside the car.
Mesh looks sweet.. any chance you could photoshop my car to have body coloured grill and same mesh? :) http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/detail/galleryData/medium-DSC03978.JPG (http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/detail/galleryData/medium-DSC03978.JPG)
Send me a larger pic than that!

How’s it riding with the front spring setup?

I have a set waiting to go on, just waiting on shocks. It's a good ride, stiffer than the intrax. I bought them purely for looks though.

http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/detail/DSC03978.JPG

No problems with the AEM 6 in 1, I don't understand whats wrong with the LC-1, explain.

No problems with the AEM 6 in 1, I don't understand whats wrong with the LC-1, explain.

Halfway through the drive the reading gives out... shows between 9:1 - 10:1 no matter what. After recalibrating it, it works OK again. For a while. Very annoying when you're trying to tune/datalog.

blashpemeous RICER!!!!


http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk64/ironjoet16s/grillE/IMAGE_304.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk64/ironjoet16s/grillE/P5240359.jpg

I was gonna say this to you earlier in email - but I didn't have time to check the lc-1 manual. Plugging it out for 5 seconds only resets the heater calibration. To calibrate the sensor itself, you need to ground that calibration wire for a few seconds. Check the manual on innovate cd - what you've done is in section 4.2, you need to do whats in section 4.1

Gotya. I'm going to install the button.

Amish, don't let the purists see! They might have a heart attack!

300 people just gagged on Werthers.

So I opened up my latest datalog from MS and I came across something very disturbing: I'm not getting a proper MAP sensor reading.


I have my wastegate opening at 8.7 psi. Call it 8, due to pressure drop, etc that I should see on the gauge. So that'd be 55ish kPa, which I should see on the graph as a horizontal line once achieved (this is what I see on my boost gauge).

Instead, I see the number climbing with RPMs. It reaches a maximum of 196 kPa (or 28 psi). Trust me, I'm not hitting 28 psi.

What could be the problem here? I have the 4 bar map sensor, which is configured both in the megatune configurator and the MSQ setting.

Second of all, the CLT rises (rather erratically) with RPM as well, and drops sharply to a horizontal line afterward.


What could be happening here? Is my RPM signal somehow interfering with the readings from the MAP and CLT? Any help the collective could give would be great.

Thanks in advance.

Here's a pic of a previous run (not current) in which the MAP shows 252 kPa. Trust me, didn't happen :o

EDIT: Ignore the 2nd graph - the AFR is way off due to the LC-1 needing a recalibration!
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk64/ironjoet16s/2nd_gear_CLT.png

I only have the 3 bar, but there are a few settings involved for the 4 bar, you need to double check them. 55kpa boost will show as 155 in megatune/graphs. Is it showing 196 kpa or 296?

Remember MAP is the absolute pressure in the manifold not gauge. So 196kPa is roughly 1Bar gauge, still abit above the 8psi shown on your boost gauge though.

As Alex & Phil have said 55 kPa would be off boost and 8psi would be 155kPa. I'll try and explain this as best I can but this might end up making no sense ;oops:

The Standard MAP sensor goes to approx 244 kPa. 3 bar to 300 kPa and your MAP Daddy to 400 kPa. I'm not totally sure how MS "sees" the signal but currently you're showing 196kPa instead of the expected 155kPa. As you say, you can't say for sure what the MAP is due to pressure drop but this is out by a factor of 0.79, which to me seems awful close to 0.75. 3Bar is, obviously, 0.75 of 4Bar, so I would think that your MS box maybe thinks it's reading a 3 Bar and not a 4 Bar, or there's some sort of conflict in the settings somewhere. Using this "logic" on the graph you've posted if you 0.75 the 252 KPa it equates to about 190 kPa, or about 13 psi. Is 13 psi roughly what your boost gauge was showing?

WARNING - The above post may be rubbish and the author accepts no responsibilty for its content.

Nah that sounds about right.

I'm wondering if things are the other way round, the Megasquirt is set for a 4bar MAP sensor with only a 3bar sensor actually fitted.

For the ECU to be reading high it must be seeing a higher signal than expected, which means that the sensor is operating over a lower range.

ie 2bar on a 3bar sensor would be a 3.3v signal but only a 2.5v signal from a 4bar sensor.

That would make sense but I think Joe bought it assembled and I'd be pretty surprised if they'd put the wrong MAP sensor on it, which makes me think it's the settings. Stranger things have happened though.

Yup albert's right, I bought it pre-assembled. The correct MAP was on the build sheet AND my invoice, AND diyautotune doesn't sell the 3 bar sensor like that anymore.

Anyway the important thing is I was reading it wrong, and if I understand you guys right - I should subtract 100 kPa from the number I see in my graphs... Forgive my ignorance.



Looks like I most definitely have a cooling problem however. More than likely this doesn't have anything to do with my wonky readings from the CLT but it's bad nonetheless. Right now I'm pointing to my radiator or my water pump. I've never changed either in this car ;) ;oops:

Anyway the important thing is I was reading it wrong, and if I understand you guys right - I should subtract 100 kPa from the number I see in my graphs... Forgive my ignorance.

100 kPa's is atmospheric pressure, or 1 Bar, at sea level. So everything below is a vacuum, as far as the manifold is concerned, and everything above is boost. 200 kPa's is one "atmosphere" above atmospheric pressure, so 1 Bar of boost.

Does Megasquirt actually measure atmospheric pressure at any time (as T5 does) or do we just have to assume that atmospheric is 101kPa?

If you add an extra map sensor, it does constant barometric correction:
http://www.msextra.com/manuals/MS_Extra_Hardware_Manual.htm#conbaro

Why not put a mitivac on it and compare the map to the gauage on the mitivac?