View Full Version : philb's 3dr Green T16S
The car:
http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/galleryData/medium-DSC03365-3.JPG
This car is my daily driver, but will also be tracked :) I'll be aiming to up the performance, but also the economy due to it being a daily driver. It has a load of little things needing sorting first though, I'm getting through them.
I bought the car from ebay on a whim, wanted all the fancy bits for my lpt, heres the spec:
Dover grey leather, front seats are power, with suede inserts :)
Aircon + Cruise control
Rear wash/wipe
red box apc
Plan was to transfer all the bits to my lpt, but unfortunately, I became convinced that it was "far too good to break". Even when I found problems, this conviction remains :)
The car had advertised rust on the bonnet, and the drivers door bottom was shot. Then I discovered rust around the front suspension mountings, so decided to get it sorted. The engine was also not too happy, timing chain was really, really noisy when cold and compression seemed to be down a bit.
I decided to get all this sorted at once, and gave the car to a mechanic. On reflection I should have just gotten the chassis rust sorted, and done the engine work myself. But, hindsight is 20/20, the price for the work is good, I just never imagined it could take 5 months.
Engine has been rebuilt with stock bearings and piston rings. I was advised to leave them as they were, but the compression was down across all cylinders, and only one valve was found to be leaking. Complete new timing chain kit has been fitted, chain, sprockets, guides, tensioner. New genuine saab headgasket, obviously enough. New oil pump, and new front and rear oil seals.
Engine:
FMIC - looking at custom items, want to keep the ac so will need a fairly thin one I guess
Turbo - te05-12b - found to be worn just before engine went back in, budget dictated keeping this standard until the rest of the engine is ready, so got a 2nd unit from Murray, cheers mate!
Exhaust - JT 3" I reckon
Management - megasquirt, starting with spark. Hope to run the yoke on e85 if at all possible.
Suspension:
All front bushes, plus rear torque arm bushes have just been replaced with stock items. Not impressed by poly bushes, I'd like to keep the ride quality acceptable.
Shocks/springs currently stock, but in fine nick, will probably end up transplanting bilstein b6's from the lpt, and putting in some kilens.
Have removed front anti-roll bar.
Steering was very heavy, so the rack was replaced with a recon one.
Brakes:
Pads and discs were replaced 5k miles ago, going to wait until they run down. In the short term, plans are just to change the fluid, and maybe start looking for stainless lines.
Transmission:
Looks like the gearbox has been out or replaced before, hopefully it still has many miles left in it
Clutch was replaced 7k miles ago, feels nice :)
Bodywork:
Drivers door has been repaired, no rusty arches on this car.
I'll get in with some waxoyl to try and stop any rust starting on the arches also.
Bonnet has been replaced, due to old one being rusted all the way through.
Engine bay has been restored ( sandblasted, welded where necessary, many coats of primer, and a green topcoat )
Wheels were refurbished at some stage, I will try to find super aeros at some stage, but the tyres are nearly new, so I'll wear them out first.
Extra bonus items (apart from the rust):
Upgraded speakers - obviously the PO was a bit of an audiophile, found loads of wiring for extra amps. He left the speakers thankfully, theres serious speakers in the front, including tweeters, and really good 6x9's in the parcel shelf.
Jobs completed:
Rubber seal refitted to drivers door.
Drivers side headlamp replaced
Hid conversion kit fitted
RHS engine mount replaced
LHS cv boot replaced
Kilens and Bilstein HD's fitted to front.
Drivers window motor and regulator replaced
Cruise control fixed by fixing switches
apc fixed similarly
900 aero stage 2 mod partially completed, still need to swap f pot
por-15 applied to door and suspension mountings
exhaust bodged together for the moment
clear corners fitted
Phill, good to see you started a thread, i was starting to wander what all these parts were going to!:lol:
Sounds like you are going to be having fun over the coming weeks, very jealous of the sandblasting and respraying inthe engine bay, both my cars could do with that and i need to consider it, especially the black one.
Looking forward to seeing those photos!!
Car was finally, finally, fired up yesterday. Runs sweet. Of course, theres a slight catch. It seems the upper timing chain guide may not have been replaced, so the rocker cover is gonna have to come off again.
3rd attempt at posting photos, heres some of the engine, after initial teardown for rebuild. Unfortunately, I don't have any pics of the later stages.
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/rebuild/galleryData/medium-DSC02805.JPG
Nice crosshatched bore
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/rebuild/galleryData/medium-DSC02807.JPG
Nicely carbonized piston crowns, and 1 fairly knackered head gasket.
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/rebuild/galleryData/medium-DSC02809.JPG
combustion chambers not too bad, a few valves had to be lapped though.
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/rebuild/galleryData/medium-DSC02812.JPG
Cam sprocket - quite worn.
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/rebuild/galleryData/medium-DSC02813.JPG
Some new metal going into the driveshaft tunnel..
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/rebuild/galleryData/medium-DSC02814.JPG
Knackered front gearbox mount
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/rebuild/galleryData/medium-DSC02803.JPG
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/rebuild/galleryData/medium-DSC02798.JPG
sandblasted and primed engine bay :)
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/rebuild/galleryData/medium-DSC02800.JPG
update: picking up the car tomorrow ( hopefully ), can't wait!
Picked up car, running sweeeeet! Could not drive it, due to my ankle still being busted, another few weeks. My dad drove it slowly home, constantly varying the speed for the new rings and bearings. 130 mile trip home was an adventure, it conked out coming onto a roundabout after 20 miles, with only a click from the starter. Dash lights were dim, so I reckoned something was up with the battery. Tried the battery from the pace car ( nissan sunny ) and it fired up, tried to unhook it from the booster battery but it just died, so had a look at the alternator. Found the top spade connector had nothing on it, hunted around, hey presto :) My mate paul had a go when we got home, can confirm that the turbo works alright murray, wheelspin in 3rd :)
Its dark now, no proper pictures till tomorrow. Have one picture from the chase car:
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/4/galleryData/medium-DSC03309.JPG
Saab-Daniel
23-09-06, 10:53 PM
Sweet stuff!
Remember to bed the thing in, ok?
Daniel.
I think the bearings have been bedded in, constant varying of speed for first 150 miles. Now I need to think more about the rings. Car needs to be driven a bit harder to bed them in. I've tried to dig up some info on the web ( no, I haven't bought any books on the subject ) some say to give it short blasts, but don't let it overheat. There isn't any danger of the thing overheating, needle stays bang in the middle. Thing is, they are mostly talking about N/A engines, and they say 1/2 - 3/4 throttle, with occasional full throttle. I'm not sure how to translate this to a turbo car. I don't think it would be a great idea to give it loads of boost. Any ideas?
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/4/galleryData/medium-DSC03313.JPG
unkleG'sif
25-09-06, 12:46 PM
is that Scarabe Green Phil?
my fave colour ;)
http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/albums/album32/Saabarella_Side.sized.jpg (http://www.saabcentral.com/phpgallery/album32/Saabarella_Side?full=1)
G
Tis indeed, the picture I posted from behind the car is a better indication of the colour.
Heres another, it was bloody wet this morning though, I'll get proper pictures asap.
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/4/galleryData/medium-DSC03314.JPG
unkleG'sif
25-09-06, 02:43 PM
yeah, my Saabarella is Scarabe Green also - by far and away my most favouritist colour :roll:
just waiting for funds to get my Carlsson kit complete (fr bumper), then its all getting painted either matching green, or the aero grey :cool:
G
Small update - fixed all the vac pipes, a few were hooked up wrong. Went for a spin with my dad, told him to give it a bit of welly :) The boost guage now works at least. Have noticed that when it gets into the red, get a wierd resonant roaring sound, sounds like air, not mechanical. The BOV is leaking at idle, stops hissing if I pinch the hose. So, presumably it is leaking boost. I'm not too worried, as I shouldn't even be running high boost at the moment until everything is bedded in a bit better. For it to be making this much boost, I suspect the base boost is set too high, as I doubt the apc is working. ( could the wastegate be leaking and causing the sound also ? ) So my next task is to set base boost. Might also refit the hks knockoff BOV that came with the car, to further the process of elimination.
Have been driving it about 10 days now, swapped leaking BPV for a BOV. The BOV came with the car, says Type I on it, which means its probably a single piston.. there seems to be a very slight vac leak through it at idle, but nothing like the leak through the wrecked bypass valve.
Changed the oil + filter. I think the piston rings are as bedded in as they are going to be at this stage.
I've not been driving it very hard due to the overboosting problems which I've mentioned in the workshop. Next stage of diagnosing that is to see if the wastegate works with a footpump.
I'm also getting a really obvious leak of boost, and I don't know of any great way of tracking this down. It is a high pitched hissing, so it sounds like air going through a fairly small hole. Its not leaking enough to noticeably affect the amount of boost. I know there are loads of places where it could be leaking, I'll just have to go through a process of elimination. If anyone has any tips on this, I'm all ears.
In more positive news, there haven't been any more problems with the cooling system since retorqueing the head bolts, the coolant flush is well overdue though.
On the mods front, well I can confirm that the arb removal works a treat. I've not actually thrown the car around too many corners yet, but I tried 2 yesterday evening. The turn-in is sharper, theres more traction available in mid corner, so you can put on the power earlier, and only a little bit of extra body roll.
I still need to take some decent pics..
Managed to sort out the stupid overboosting, and of course it was the simplest thing that could have been wrong. The pipe which was originally going from apc to wastegate had a blockage in it, a fairly severe blockage which seemingly was not dislodged by 15-20psi of boost. To try and eliminate things, I bypassed the apc, going directly from the compressor outlet to the wastegate, but I used that pipe!.
Yesterday, I pressurised the wastegate with a pump, it stuck open and I couldn't release it. Had to go to work. So I reattached the blocked pipe, again. So I drove around with no boost, and blue smoke after idling for a while, because oil was getting past the seals due to the turbo being stationary.
Found the pipe to be blocked last night, and replaced it, leaving out the apc for the moment. So it looks like the wastegate was only ever opening at all due to boost creep :confused:
Now boosts into the middle of the yellow, finally. I suppose thats a little high for base boost, so I will finally get to hook up my bsr boost guage and set the base boost. The smoke was gone on this mornings commute also. I'll say it again, the front arb removal has made a massive difference, I went for a blast on some local back roads last night, the car turns in, and the front sticks. If the car slides at all, its with 4 wheels.
Immediate plans:
adjust base boost
fix tiny boost leak ( possibly bushing on manifold )
change oil to synthetic - if the rings are not bedded in now, they never will be.
hook up apc again, see if it works
fix drivers side window
Should also mention the oil leak which I fixed, one of the bolts holding the oil return onto the turbo was loose :o
Car has no leaks now :)
Phill, its good to hear that turbo is working well, at least something off the red LPT is good! there was a lot of tat and rust on that car! Was a little nervous at frist, but after Wessy gave it the all clear i was confident! lot of faith in that man!
The car is looking good, i am jealous, i need to find a spare motor to take mine off the road, it is in desperate need of some work. get some pics of the front ARB removed on the thread, i am interested in this, i put a lot of stock in the handling, i am a 60 limit driver, if i can find a fun back road, i will take it over a main road any day!
Glad its all working out, keep us updated!
Andy
Yeah, the turbo does make more noise than the other te05's that I've driven, but not a whole lot more. Its just that you can hear it "spool". Once the initial spoolup is done, there is no more noise. This noise might be getting out through the same hole as the slight boost leak though.
I'm only getting a highish base boost right now since the apc is out of the loop, but it goes well enough, and makes the right noise when you nail it in 3rd up to near 5k, change to 4th, and get on the power. I can't describe it better than that, will need to make a video :)
Before hooking up the apc I need to lower the base boost, not looking forward to it since it looks all rusted. I also need to fix the bloody exhaust leak, its at the joint at the front of the back box. Probably won't have access to a welder for a while, so gonna go for a temp fix with some putty and an exhaust bandage, I just want to hear the bloody thing!
The front arb is in my boot, I will put up pics of it, but I couldn't document the removal. It is documented elsewhere though, its not terribly tough, unbolt it, and pull it out. The entire front suspension was removed during the front end rebuild, its just the arb wasn't put back on. That reminds me though, I need to put up photos of the powder coated wishbones :)
I'm still getting used to the handling with it, I can't seem to unsettle it in the dry, it *pulls* out of the corner far more impressively.
Checked timing, it was set to 10 deg at idle :nono;
Set to just over 16, maybe 16.5. Car idles more smoothly, and seems a little more lively off boost + responsive. But I think I need to change the plugs now as well.
Pulled plugs, found they were bcp6ev - wrong plugs. I had spotted bcp7es ( copper core ) in halfords for 13 euro, I know they are not 100% correct, but decided to give them a shot. Doesn't seem any better or worse really :)
Going to order kilen springs, bilstein heavy duty shocks and bcp7ex plugs shortly. Heres another crap picture from my phone:
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/4/Image032.jpg
Saab-Daniel
28-11-06, 03:15 PM
Remember you need to get NGK BCP7EVX, that's the correct term for them ;)
Daniel.
Sorry, posted that in a bit of a hurry. Halfords were tremendously unhelpful, they won't specially order in the bcp7evx, even though they were in halfords spark plug "file". PFS have them of course, just wondering if anyone knows if the 4.39 pounds is for 1 plug or 4.
unkleG'sif
28-11-06, 04:14 PM
now there's wishfull thinking..... ;)
thats each dude... harsh, eh?!
G
Yeah, I know. I've managed to source them locally, more expensive not including pfs shipping, cheaper otherwise.
Ok, just a small update. I seem to still have a leak from the turbo oil return, where it bolts to the turbo. Haven't had a chance to put the car up on stands yet, but it seems to only leak sometimes ( on startup perhaps ).
I made a big order with pfs, lots of little things such as the rubber joint for the gearshift, new pcv fitting for the valve cover, filters, pads. Also got a gasket for the turbo oil return, new expansion tank cap, ( old one was leaking pressure, causing a hiss when the engine is switched off, and it had started to leak coolant also ).
As an extravagance, decided to go for the clear corner clusters and side repeaters. I'm not terribly convinced of their build quality, hopefully they will look well on the car.
The car itself is running well enough, a/c clutch is making stupid noises ( I have checked that its not engaged ). Since theres no gas in there, I suppose I could take off that belt for the moment. Apc is not working at all, I'm running a highish base boost. I settled the timing at 18 degrees, it can easily take more off boost, but I haven't managed to test the vac capsule yet, and I'll need to mod it.
Theres quite a backlog of work now :roll:
Another update without pictures, sorry. I started the car the other day, and was greeted by the sound of a bag of nails, and a cloud of blue smoke out the back. I pulled the plugs to find that #3 plug was oil fouled, I could see oil on the piston crown as well. I started it back up, more blue smoke, but it went away. I let it warm up a little, and went for an extended test drive. No more blue smoke, and it hasn't come back since. Really at a loss to explain this.
I put the car up on stands last night to have a look at it.
I did the long dreaded compression test.
140 135 135 148 - not great, but a bit better than it was before "rebuild".
The turbo oil return is still leaking, but very little. There is a drop of oil on the end of the bolt, but none around the rest of the joint ( at the turbo end ).
There seems to be plenty of oil around the steering rack, but its very difficult to see where this is coming from. This is of course being blown backwards, so at least the undercarraige has gotten some rust proofing :)
There seems to have been far too much grease in the inner cv joint, and it is throwing it out.
The main thing is that the leaking centre section - muffler joint has now decided not to be a joint any more, and will fall off pretty shortly. So I'm gonna try and drive 60 miles with it on saturday to my uncles workshop, and try to weld it together. If that fails I could buy a new muffler, but its tough to get the genuine part over, delivery from uk would be expensive, so might as well go for JT. Don't have the time to go moving the battery now.
If I don't manage to fix it up properly, would it be better to just get a new saab back box, and add a JT downpipe later?
Hey Phill, the JT is a dangerous upgrade if you like your fuel consumption, it sounds so brutal at high speed with your foot planted that all you are going to want to do is plant it! lol, i am looking at a replacement for my exhaust but i am thinking the smaller Abbot part might be better having had a JT in the past!
Also, forget about arch scuffing with a load, you get rear axle knocking with the JT!
You dont have to move your battery for a JT, only if you get the down pipe! and to be honest, if you havent got a cat then i would go for it! i dont know what its like with a cat, but i gues its not as good sound wise! or easy to fit? The down pipe that comes with the exhaust is still 3 inches but it connects to the elbow!
BUt i am not trying to put you off, far from it, i say go for it! Graeme (saabstudent) has one on his otherwise standard t16 (K reg so should have a Kitty in there somewhere!) might be worth speaking to him about it as i had an FMIC and mega boost on whitey (with no cat)so it was probably a bit louder than you would expect! i do have a video of it driving down the street too with the camera mounted just above the exhaust, its funny to see the people looking back at the car! :cheesy: :evil:
As for the smoke, check the white bleed valve on the top of the cylinder head, its a one way valve, mine got blocked and i was told (might have been a load of tosh though) that it was the cause of my blown head gasget as it releases the pressure from the head!
It does have a cat ( J reg ), the JT downpipe doesn't say whether it fits with a cat or not, but I think it does. Could be tough to disconnect the cat from the existing downpipe though. I'm wary of the rear axle knocking, had that before with a standard exhaust that was not fitted correctly. I suppose it would be case of not tightenening everything up completely at first, until I'm sure its not knocking.
The part that annoys me is that if you buy the jt system and then buy the sports downpipe, you now have an extra jt downpipe that you don't need, and is probably not much use to anyone else either. Also, the non cat JT system is 30 quid cheaper, even though it looks the exact same, and has an extra pipe for the centre section.
Have checked the pcv valve, it seems fine.
Right, the exhaust is now sorted. Located a classic car specialist nearby, he was happy to weld it back together. No leak now, sounds sweet!
I thought i would put together that video for you, i put it on YouTube - check out the thread in performance mods and tuning for the clip (would put it here but more people will see it there!)
Great stuff! I think the mic is distorting it when you open it up, but it still sounds amazing. The burble is amazing :)
Yeah, and it really is VERY loud! there is a video of me at santa pod too, its scary sometimes how much noise it makes, you have to be very aware of the old bill before sticking the boot in!
Well, I finally changed the coolant, god knows what was put in it by the gifted mechanic, there was also gunge in the expansion tank from the headgasket not being torqued properly a while back. I decided to change the thermostat as well, so heres what I did.
Remove old thermostat, bolt housing back on.
Attached an old radiator hose to the radiator drain, opened it.
Put hose into expansion tank, and flush the system. I then started the engine to help the flushing process further. Not surprisingly, it didn't warm up :)
I then removed the expansion tank and cleaned it thoroughly.
Changed the oil to fully synthetic. Heres a picture of one of the few "mods" that the car has, didn't like it at first, but it has really grown on me.
You can see that the dash lighting update is needed:
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/DSC03361-1024.JPG
Finally got round to taking some pictures ( though it was getting dark ), heres 1:
http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/galleryData/medium-DSC03365-3.JPG
The rest turned out blurry, I should clean the wheels properly before taking any more anyway.
Fitted the clear corners and side repeaters, unfortunately haven't taken decent pics of em yet. It really improves the look of the car, particularly looking at it from the front.
http://minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/DSC03373.JPG
Today, I fixed the issue of brake lights sticking on. The brake light switch just needed some adjustment. I think the switch is on the way out, but it seems to be working much better now, it was very annoying to have to lift up the pedal after every use of the brakes.
Also fixed the apc, the ground from the solenoid was bad. So, finally I have proper boost!
I had started to modify the box to 900 aero version 2 spec a long time ago, but this is the first time the apc system has had a chance to work properly.
The bypass of R42 certainly makes it hold boost better at higher rpm, there is very little boost taper at high rpm.
I did not have a 1k pot, so at the moment I've only got the f pot adjusted to 470 ohms, as far as it will go. This doesn't seem to have made a massive difference to max boost, it goes a few mm into the red. I turned up the p pot from 19k to 25k, to see what would happen, sure enough, it does overshoot. I'll bring the p pot down below 19k and see what it drives like.
A long while ago, Si theorised that the apc helps spool up by keeping all the air diverted away from the wastegate hose until base boost is reached, this does seem to be true.
Fitted the boost guage in a temp location in the lower part of the centre console ( where the equalizer would normally go ). Its a bit stupid, I will bring it through the speaker grille instead. Yes it will look untidy, but it is far safer than anywhere in the centre console, its extremely dangerous to look at the centre console while you floor the car :) Seems to be making about 0.7 bar boost.
I've a question, does the base boost need to be adjusted to use the 900 aero mk2 mod? Its currently at 0.5 bar. I will be getting a 1k pot ASAP.
You want to try and get base boost about 1/2 full boost, i think it helps reduce any fluctuation in the boost level, especially in higher gears.
I better get on with Stubby, you lot will be catching up with me soon:D .
Yes you better :) Stubby seemed perfectly well capable of moving under its own power when I was in it :)
I've been really restricted in terms of time since getting back on my feet, work has been crazy for the past 3 months. But I have built up a surplus of time off, and I'll take some of it to work on the car. I need to fix the windscreen washers, cv boot, drivers window, and then I think I might look at the cruise control.
I've been really restricted in terms of time since getting back on my feet, work has been crazy for the past 3 months
I have'nt got alot of time to work on her at the moment either, trying to get my loft sorted at the moment, the house is filling up with car junk and i need to get on and start doing stuff like laying the floor and building a kitchen & bathroom:D , hopefully by the end of the week i'll have all the boards down up there and i can start putting stuff away!
I found E85 locally, running what I think is E35 now :cheesy:
Advanced timing 3 degrees, and still holding full boost. The boost overshoots and then pulls back in 3rd gear, but holds in the red in 4th. Anyone who has done the 900 aero mod, could you tell me if you had to adjust the P pot much? Also if anyone knows how to calculate the octane rating of a mixture of e85 and petrol, let me know, cheers.
When I fixed the normal brake light switch, I also saw another switch, which I reckoned was for the cruise control. I tried to adjust the bracket so that that switch was closed as well with the brakes released.
Hey presto, the cruise works! Seems to hold the speed perfectly. Can't believe it really, considering all the other stuff that doesn't work on the car, the bloody cruise actually does work!
The red apc is behaving really strangely. In 3rd, boost only goes to the yellow/red border. In 4th or 5th, it will hold 1/2 cm into the red for as long as you want.
Has anyone encountered this? Its really annoying. Perhaps I have the p pot set too low? ie, do you need to up the p pot to take advantage of a higher f pot setting?
I have a black box which I can try out, but its from a T8, I wonder if the knock sensitivity will be wrong on it.
Yep, I just need to get a knock led sorted, I know :)
As always, when I do one job on the car, I notice 3 more that need doing. I did one cv boot, I note that the other one will need doing shortly. I can't really recommend the boot kit from pfs, the clip is not impressive at all, I ended up using a heavy duty cable tie. No new circlip is provided, and no new hub nut. But it was easy job, as the front end was only put back together a few months ago, there were no problems with fasteners.
The method outlined in the guide on uksaabs works a treat, just pop the two ball joints, no need to go messing with the track rod end. Also replaced the gasket on the turbo oil return pipe. I need to sort out the rocker cover gasket, its leaking all over the place, including onto the exhaust manifold.
Right, this is going to be depressing, but I need to make a list, and prioritise it.
Bodywork:
Clay, ScratchX( swirl/minor scratch remover), Polish, Wax - DONE
Apply POR-15:
to engine bay, - MOSTLY DONE
front and rear chassis, - FRONT DONE
arches - waxoyled
Suspension:
Order new shocks ( though existing shocks are ok, they will not cope with kilens) -DONE
Investigate clunk from left rear ( bushes )
Replace rear bushes - replaced a few
Fit Kilen Springs and new shocks - DONE
Get front end alignment to "sport" spec
Engine:
Re-seal rocker gasket
Replace turbo? Not such a priority since the smoke seems to have stopped since replacing the oil return gasket on turbo
RHS engine mount - already have the part - DONE
Gearbox:
Change oil - DONE
Change rubber bushing in linkage to sort out free play in gearshift - DONE
Interior:
Remove and Refit dash properly and centre console, to eliminate some creaks
Replace headlining
Apply conditioner to leather, get front seat seams stitched
philjohnhb
22-03-07, 04:59 PM
Yeh - and tomorrow?
Matthew
22-03-07, 05:25 PM
That's a good list.
I started off thinking "pah, he ain't seen my list(s)" but by the end I'd generated healthy respect :lol:
Still, we're heading for Summer (although today you wouldn't know it - snow this morning!) and the clocks go forward this weekend. If you're lucky enough to be able to work on the car at the evenings, the Summer is a great time.
Do you rely on your car daily?
You forgot "HID conversion" from the list! :cool:
philjohnhb: I don't pretend that I'll get a lot of these things sorted in a short space of time, I just have to write down whats in my head before I start forgetting it.
Matthew:
This is why I'm making the list now, I plan to do a lot with the greater amount of light available in the evenings. I have started crossing things off the list in the last while, have got the cruise control, brake lights, cv boot done in the last while. Last night, I sorted out the rear parcel shelf mounting.
I've already got a lot of the parts needed, just have to fit them.
I do rely on the car daily, I've driven it to work most days for the last 6 months. While it has occasionally been grumpy, and it never sounds great on cold startup, it has never let me down.
Because its a daily driver, I'm prioritising things that will make a difference to the daily driving experience. For example, you spend a lot of time idling in traffic The RHS engine mount at least is shot, so I need to sort this. I also need to replace the fan thermoswitch with one that will kick in the fans earlier, and fit a switch to override it.
For the summer, I need to get the A/C working.
This weekend hopefully:
RHS engine mount
replace ignition leads
replace expansion tank.
replace drivers headlight, verify that levelling system works.
Maybe:
Replace rubber coupling in gearbox linkage, I already have the part.
Reseal rocker cover.
Thoroughly clean and polish the car.
Still no sign that my HID conversion kit has been shipped, it is easy to install.
Matthew
22-03-07, 07:59 PM
The list of jobs for my project car quickly overwhelmed me, and I couldn't keep track of what I was supposed to be doing and in what order.
In fact, it wasn't just the work to be done, but the parts and materials to order, the phone calls to make, the things to find out. Too much for me.
I eventually realised that the situation was hopeles, so I wrote down everything I needed to do, and then ordered it. Through many refinements I am now working from a reasonable schedule of works.
The schedule aises visibility on progress. Satisfying to wipe off a list of tasks after a busy weekend. Also helps me plan to hit my target for completion: Sweden '07 :cool:
The same may work for you if you're about as good at dealing with involved projects as I am ;)
I know what you mean, thats why I have an expansion tank, ignition leads, engine mount, headlight, leads, gearshift coupler, rear suspension bushes and kilen springs ready and waiting :)
Matthew
23-03-07, 10:00 AM
:cool:
Is a brand new expansion tank? Where'd you buy it? I got mine from Euro Car Parts, cost £35 I think.
Got it from a new company called "My Saab" in Ireland, 50 euro -> 34 pounds. Seems to be the genuine saab item, so I'm pleased with that.
Matthew
23-03-07, 11:35 AM
Nice :cool: So much better than the manky and discoloured original :D
http://www.hexfiles.com/saabcentral/a6vey/engine_bay_cleaning/IMG_4281.JPG
So, today;
replaced RHS engine mount
replaced gearshift coupling
replaced turbo coolant flow hose.
replaced expansion tank
fixed LF abs sensor
replaced plug leads
Not bad, considering how much I normally get done.
Of course, I still took far too long for each job.
The rhs engine mount is easy enough, I found I had to jack the engine up about an inch. But I broke the left bolt free of the mounting bracket ( its spot welded to the bracket ) which made the installation of the new mount a bit tougher.
Unfortunately have not noticed much improvement, which means the left hand one now needs to be done :confused:
Gearshift coupling was similarly disappointing, its an easy enough job, but has not removed the free play in the gearshift, so maybe theres something wrong at the gearlever. The gearbox end feels fine.
I didn't bother ordering the turbo coolant hose from saab, I bought a foot of the same diameter hose for 1 euro from the local motor factors, and added an extra jubilee clip at the 90 degree bend to stop it kinking.
Have fitted HID's, see the thread in performance and mods for more info. Currently I've refitted the full shields, I might modify them at some point in the future to allow more light on full beam, but am reluctant to butcher them. Have not done much else with the car, its going well enough, but the boost is not great, about 0.65 bar max, this turbo is going to have to be sorted out.
Ok, time to update and add to "the list"
Bodywork:
Clay, ScratchX( swirl/minor scratch remover), Polish, Wax - DONE
Apply POR-15:
to engine bay, - MOSTLY DONE
front and rear chassis, - FRONT DONE
arches
Suspension:
Order new shocks ( though existing shocks are ok, they will not cope with kilens)
Investigate clunk from left rear ( bushes )
Replace rear bushes - I think I will get another axle, fit bushes to that, and then swap.
Fit Kilen Springs and new shocks - DONE
Get front end alignment to "sport" spec
Engine:
Re-seal rocker gasket
Replace turbo? Not such a priority since the smoke seems to have stopped since replacing the oil return gasket on turbo - DONE
RHS engine mount - already have the part - DONE
Find the bag of nails that seem to be loose inside it
Gearbox:
Change oil - Topped up for the moment
Change rubber bushing in linkage to sort out free play in gearshift - DONE
Investigate free play in shifter linkage - shifter rod bushing at firewall
Interior:
Remove and Refit dash properly and centre console, to eliminate some creaks
Replace headlining - staple this for the moment.
Apply conditioner to leather, get front seat seams stitched
Matthew
25-04-07, 06:18 PM
Are you going to have a gearbox drain plug fitted?
Would be interested to hear your POR15 application tips :cool:
Re: gearbox - I have a pump which you can run off a drill. It worked a treat for changing the diff oil on the bmw. I think I'll use this for the minute.
All the places I applied POR-15 to so far are not exterior. So, I'm not bothered with getting a good finish. I care about stopping the rust. So I just used a small paintbrush. I know that a sprayer would be handy for the box sections, but I already used waxoyl in there.
The first place I wanted to paint was the bottom of the drivers door, which was one of the few parts of the rebuilt that had been carried out professionally. New metal had been added in, and the bottom of the door was sprayed.
I applied as much as would stick to the door. I found that it dried in a few hours. I did not wait that long before putting the rubber strip back on, and foolishly did not wear gloves while doing so. I only got a little on my hands, but it took steel wool, washing powder and boiling water to get it off. - I know, its my own fault.
The finish of the POR-15 is quite glossy, so its not the most subtle thing in the world. I still do a double take looking at the engine bay, some of which I've painted.
I will post pictures as soon as I find my camera. I suppose it would be good to have a set of photos now for reference. I need to take some more pictures of the whole car as well, I polished it, and cleaned up the wheels somewhat, which makes it look much smarter.
Matthew
25-04-07, 08:15 PM
Yes, definitely not enough pictures in this thread :D
Did you get roped into using the whole POR product line :roll: and use Marine Clean and Metal Ready in the sufaces before painting?
I used metal ready, thats about it.
Heres a picture from a few weeks ago just after installing the hids.
http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/hid/galleryData/medium-DSC03590.JPG
And heres some of the hid install..
This is the ballast on the drivers side:
http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/hid/galleryData/medium-DSC03605.JPG
Here is the power supply going to the passenger side, you can see it just in front of the ac condensor:
http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/hid/galleryData/medium-DSC03607.JPG
And heres the passenger side ballast, I mounted this one inside the inner wing as theres less heat on the intake side, and the apc and cruise make things a bit crowded between the wings.
http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/hid/galleryData/medium-DSC03608.JPG
I noticed today that the intercooler was pretty warm, after an extremely laid back drive home.
So I need to cop on, and install an FMIC. But.. I'm not taking the
ac out, we've had a few hot days already, and ac would make things much, much better. I'm hardly going for the turbocomp ic after Nicks experience, so I'll have to do a bit of research.
Matthew
25-04-07, 09:29 PM
Would you consider a custom made IC? The cost would be more, but you'd know it'd fit. If there was a subsequent problem, then you would be able to put that to someone face-to-face instead of over EBay.
It needs to be no more than 55mm deep. There was a company in the uk selling generic intercoolers of various sizes, but I've forgotten their name. They were mentioned in the big thread a while back, gonna try and dig it out. Its not allisport or forge..
ok, it was amber-performance.co.uk. Thinnest they have is 76mm though.. thsperformance have 65mm.. that thin enough?
ok.. a bit more searching and I see that al aero has retained the ac, and has an ic 2.5" deep. This is 63.6mm, so the 65mm one should fit. Also, www.universal-intercoolers.co.uk have 2.5" ic's, but they are 27" wide, 21.5 for the core. I think this is too wide..
Albert Trout
27-04-07, 02:55 PM
In case you're tempted Phil stear clear of amber performance. I got my IC from them and although it's alright it took 2 months to arrive. And they acted as if I was some sort of weirdo when I e-mailed them after a month asking where it was....
I need to once again reprioritise..
Since I'm going to be driving the car to sweden, I want to make a list of things to be done before then.
The front left is making loads of clunks over bumps. The balljoints have 10,000 miles on them, I've checked that everything is bolted up tight. I looked the the shock bush, and I really don't know what I'm looking at. It doesn't LOOK shot..
I think I'll post on workshop tbh.
I also get a big clunk from the back left when starting off from rest.. this happens whether the handbrake is on or off. I've had the car up on stands, theres nothing obviously loose, but I reckon this is the rear trailing arm bushes. I've a new set of bushes, and a possible parts car that I can get the axle from, install bushes, and swap with whats on my car.
Both of these issues are not critical, but they are really bloody annoying and disconcerting.
As for the IC, now that I've established that a 2.5" thick IC will fit, I should be able to turn up something on ebay. Cheers for the headsup about amber-performance.
So.. more updated plans. I've obtained a parts car, a 5dr 16 valve. :cheesy:
Gearbox is sweet, steering very smooth so I'll have them as spares.
It also fits in nicely with my suspension plans.
This is how the suspension will be sorted.
* Kilen springs - already have them
* bilstein hd shocks - now on their way from the states, 400 dollars
vs 700 dollars from the uk.
* rear axle swap - I need to get the axle off me parts car, de-rust
it, paint it up, put on the new set of bushes which I already have.
* braided brake lines for rear, the parts car is non abs, and my current brake lines are a bit rusty. Front brake lines are new so I will leave them for the moment.
I plan on doing this in stages. The front bushes are all new, so I
hope to do the front shocks and springs first in one go.
Then prep the new rear axle, and install it with the new shocks and springs. I'll need to examine the panhard rod mounting as well.
Questions:
Are any of the rear bushes easy to remove? Should I just drop the axle off with someone who knows what they are doing?
Will it save any time to install the shocks to the "new axle" and then offer it all up as a unit?
Well, the mysterious knocking issue is sorted, bottom balljoint bolts were a little loose :o - thanks cdaly for helping with the diagnosis and temporary fix.
Looks like all those warnings about re-using nyloks are dead on the money. Does anyone know off the top of their head what nylok nuts are needed?
Ok, so stage one of the suspension upgrade is complete, fitted the kilens and bilstein hd's to the front this morning. The top shock bolts were a nightmare, it took a breaker bar to loosen them, and they resisted and screeched the whole way off. The spring mounts came away with the springs, but when you get them off, you see theres nothing really holding them on, so its not surprising. No compressors are needed to get the kilens in. All the tips from si and ejenner came in handy, thanks lads.
The ride height does not seem to have dropped much yet, I think its 10-15mm. The car rides far better, and corners much flatter :cheesy:
Well, just a minor update. Got a nice new sony stereo, so decided now was the time to move the stereo down to the centre console.
I tried and tried to see if there was another way to route the wires. I rerouted all the speaker and power wires to get more slack on them, but the connectors between the saab loom and the iso adapter are still smack where the ashtray goes.
What a nightmare. I was reluctant to cut loads of the kick panel, so I went with the bare minimum, and thats not going to be enough to get the ashtray mount back on. More cutting required.. If I cut loads more of the kick panel, I don't think the wires will reach down far enough. The alternative is to hack the ashtray mounting a bit. If anyone has any advice on how they managed it, would be grateful.
In other news, I found the front torque arm bush had been replaced with a completely WRONG bush, that hadn't quite made it all the way into the torque arm. I now know how to press bushes in and out, so that was interesting.
And finally got my windscreen washers working, what I thought was the front washer pump, was in fact an extra pump for the rear wash wipe, the front washer pump was missing.. so I got that off the parts car and rigged it all up. Even the headlamp washers work now!
When i remounted my stereo i was getting the same problems, now, what i did was run the wires down through the small hole behind the ash tray and i managed to get the junction boxes pretty far down.
I had the added issue of having the alpine 4x60w internal amp so there is a large box off the power lead as well as the iso connectors, i got around it by not replacing all the screws in the ash tray holder, especially the big bolt.
I can close my ashtray flush now (i usually have the cable for my road angel in there though).
I would like to increase the length of the wires and possibly sort some of them out, once i can find a place to get new screws for my steering wheel boss i will get my whole dash removed and investigate as they have really put a lot of extra wiring in for my hands free kit.
Loving the look of the HIds by the way - getting tempted!!
unkleG'sif
21-05-07, 11:57 AM
phill....
i just extended the lower portion of the radio loom (the ISO adapter part from Saab connectors to the Sony plug), so that the 2 big connector blocks are behind the heater controls, and nothing but the flat wires come down behind the kick panel, to the right of the heater, then into the rear of the cubby hole
was a bit of a pain in the ****, but it works
G
Murray - sounds similar to my situation ok. I dunno how the ashtray is gonna go flush without bolting it in, and it seems to contact the kick panel at some point.
Drg23 - Feeling a bit dim today, I have a few questions..
Theres
1) the saab connectors into the loom,
2) saab adapter connecting to this that gives you iso connections,
3) sony adapter from the iso connections to the single sony plug into the back of the stereo.
So you have 1) in behind the heater controls, and then have you run the wires through the hole between the dash and the kick panel, and managed to miss the ashtray mount,
or
have you managed to route the wires behind the kick panel, and then somehow into the cubby hole, bypassing the ashtray area completely?
unkleG'sif
21-05-07, 03:23 PM
yeah sort of.... i should have taken some pics before i put it all back together :roll:
coming from the car end of the loom, the Saab connectors are nestling behind the vent button and old Aircon button, with all the bulky bits of the radio loom still sitting up in the dash (there are some fuses, and large square box that i have no idea what its for... it was these and the 2 connector blocks that stopped the bolster from refitting).
the wires then sit right up tight to the right of the heater, and i deliberately squashed them flat so the are more like a ribbon that a core.... they then come round from behind the knee bolster, over the top of the carpeted console and into the space behind the centre console proper, and into the radio
quite bad explanation..... sorry, late night on a hot date ysterday... brain still a little fuddled ;)
G
Cheers for the replies. So, looking at it dead on, the wires would go down to the left, as the heater is on the left hand side? Or are you talking about going straight down, as far as the black ducts for the heater? I was thinking about that route, but I didn't think the wires would reach.
I think I know the gap you are talking about into the console, I managed to run a vacuum pipe through it for the boost guage when I foolishly installed it in the centre console. Must.. find.. camera..
philjohnhb
23-05-07, 04:04 PM
All of the cabling for my EQs goes behind the knee board, carve out a channel in the foam behind and you will have no problems with the ashtray. If you fit quick connectors throughout it shouldn't pose problems if you have to remove the centre console completely.
Have you tinted your rear lenses yet?
Yeah, more cutting is required ok, but I've put that on hold until I can get a proper permanent 12v feed to the radio. The grey wire in the saab harness ( I've now confirmed that this is the right one ) is not coming up with the goods, so I must have dislodged some dodgy connector upstream. When pulling the wires through.
There are some wires in the engine bay that were going to the boot previously for an amp ( of the previous owners, guessing here ), I will have to try and reroute. I don't really want to drill the bulkhead.
I bought the lense tinting spray ( 22 euro?? ) , but am going to leave it until after the NCT ( irish MOT equivalent ) on monday.
Might as well post up a provisional list for this weekend's work:
Swap in kilens and bilsteins on the back
Glue front spring mounts to body so that tester doesn't find them to be loose with suspension at full droop :o
Change drivers side cv boot - hate this job
reseal rocker cover with some loctite sealant
Change side marker bulbs to orange
Aim headlights, plug back in h4's for test I think
Get tracking done - somewhere - this looks tight.
Yeah, I think its time to take friday off work.
Well, the first item on that list is done. But due to it taking about 12 hours, won't get everything done.
Rear suspension is a nightmare compared to the front, had to grind off both top shock bolts, then found the lower bolt on one side did not want to part from the shock bush, even with a crow bar. Much dremelling ensued. It gets tough to compress bilsteins for long when you haven't eaten in 12 hours... eventually figured out it was best to compress them away from the car and use some cable ties to keep them depressed.
The right hand side is tighter due to the brake lines not allowing the axle to drop as much.. in the process the stupid blue cover slipped off the shock... ->superglue
Tracking isn't going to get done now before the test, its a sunday..
Well, had another epic evening at the car yesterday, to prepare for the nct test. Unfortunately it failed, but nothing major..
* Swapped out the hids for h4's - I didn't want to chance the beam pattern, as the nct is really fussy. Interesting to compare after using the hids for a while. The full beam is decent enough on h4's, better light near the car, the beams don't travel as far, but the hid really wins on dipped beam.
* Fixed up all other lights.
* Heater valve decided to lose half of its lower outlet, a few litres of coolant were lost, luckily I had lots of coolant in the car with me. Added another jubilee clip to the connector to hold it together for the minute.
Anyway, failed the nct test - the drivers side headlight was pointing too far to the right, I had aligned the height ok
Also the flexible brake hose to the back axle was rusted badly where it connects to the t junction. I don't want to tackle this without having a replacement t junction available.
Everything else passed with flying colours, the brakes worked well, even though the back pads had only been changed on saturday, I wasn't sure if they would be bedded in. Even the handbrake worked really well :)
The emissions were miniscule.
hydrocarbons: 42 ppm ( limit 750 )
CO: 0.07%
Might sound wierd, but I'm pretty happy with the result :)
philjohnhb
29-05-07, 08:11 AM
Doesn't sound weird at all, I know that feeling very well - It's hard holding your breath for 40 minutes while your car goes through the test.
Hehe, I chain smoked instead. A full set of goodridge hoses has been ordered :D
I might install that hose before I go, I will have a look at the connector, and see if it might be opened without busting the t junction. If anyone has changed this brake hose, please let me know how it went.
Well, hoses arrived, looking even more unlikely that I'll install any before I go.
http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/brakes/galleryData/medium-DSC03660.JPG
Made it back anyway, car went really well. No problems with cruising 100-110 mph on the de-restricted parts of the autobahns, even in 30c heat. And the 900 seats really do work. No back pain at all, even after 10 hours sitting in the car.
Its a really great car for the autobahn, overtaking is effortless. It went even better over in sweden, on a 50-50 mix of e85 and 98 :)
Strangely enough, they were selling de-cat pipes at the official sdcc parts sale, so I picked some up, and having no patience, fitted it to the car. Sounds proper now :)
Time for another list.
Replace drivers side cv boot, I'd say this joint is fairly dry now
re-fit hids
Tint indicator portion of rear lenses red
Check timing chain tensioner extension
Change top timing chain guide
Figure out engine oil leak ( this could take a while )
fit mbc inline with wastegate hose ( inline with compressor hose doesn't seem to work )
Swapped it to the wastegate line, set the mbc to 0.5 bar, plugged the apc back in. Seems to just give great big boost spikes. I think by reducing the line down in size to fit the mbc, there is too much restriction, even when the mbc is fully open, for the apc to dump boost quickly enough. Have turned the mbc down to 0.45 bar, no chance to test this morning though, traffic was brutal. Its probably just acting as a restriction now, we'll see.
'nother minor update.
Inspection finally passed.
Now to start the modding :)
I can report that the mbc in the wastegate hose doesn't work, even if its set as low as possible, those pipes are large bore for a reason it seems.
I'm going to try one last time with the apc rise rate turned
down a lot.
IronJoe
20-06-07, 03:45 PM
I'm confused. What was the problem with running the MBC inline? I used that for quite a while, maybe I can help.
Do you have a diagram or picture of how yours was routed?
Perhaps the routing needs to be more complex.
I've got the mbc on the hose from apc to wastegate. its just to see if I can use it to adjust base boost.
The problem is that the boost spikes massively, then I get major knock, boost gone. It seems to be allowing the boost to go way too high, and then restricts the apc's ability to pull it back down.
IronJoe
20-06-07, 04:11 PM
So, what was your base boost before adding the MBC? And what was your base boost after adding it? Don't tune it with your APC connected. Just concentrate on setting your desired base boost first.
It may help you to lengthen the wastegate rod a bit, I assume you tried shortening it before to increase base boost. If you shorted it too much you can interfere with its ability to open properly.
0.4 before, 0.5 after. Had no problems setting base boost, problems started when I plugged the apc back in.The whole point is to see if I can adjust the base boost without the rod, its rusted together completely. I don't have any use for the mbc otherwise, I only bought it because it was $5 at the saab festival.
Have read your thread about mbc's, how did you end up plumbing it in? On the compressor hose? I think I need to try that again, I had it set too high when I initially put it on that hose.
Tried the mbc on the compressor hose - seems like it might be slightly better, but not sure yet as the connectors keep coming apart. Could a mod rename this thread to "philb's '91 T16S", thanks/
So, thoughts have turned to modifications, after seeing emmetts chargecooler on his 99, I'm convinced thats the way to go. The chargecooler stayed cool even when everything else under the bonnet was roasting, in 33 degree heat.
I've been looking at the xs-power unit he's using, but also saw this one:
http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_22&products_id=32
http://www.advancedvehicletuning.co.uk/catalog/images/barrel.jpg
290mm long, basically a foot. I reckon this would fit easily between the compressor outlet and the throttlebody, giving a really short inlet tract.
This weekend, in order of priority:
Change engine oil, filter
Change fuel filter, I'm sure running e50 has blocked it further
Change gearbox oil, amsoil fully synth mtf going in.
Change rocker cover gasket ( got a genuine one at Saab dealership in trollhattan :) )
Install braided brake hoses, change brake fluid
Check operation of horsepower pump.
Check operation of horsepower pump.
I like it! lol
How is the pump? i need to service my car!
LIking the HIDs
Its making about 0.7 bar of boost on a good day, but I don't think the lack of boost is its fault. Hopefully the fuel filter is "partially restricted".
Did all that, except for the rocker cover gasket.
This new gearbox oil seems to work well, gearchange is good even when cold now, 1st-2nd used to crunch. Changes seem easier and smoother overall, it goes into 1st every time. Just as well theres a noticeable improvement, since it took me a while to change it :)
Fitted the braided brake lines to the front. This is a big improvement, pedal is no longer mushy :)
http://lh4.google.com/phil.brennan/Rojksoa9SWI/AAAAAAAAABY/dzleD6HHelU/s800/DSC03887.JPG
Looking at the picture, I think I can see why the abs light is on now..
VikingSpirit
02-07-07, 02:20 PM
Looking at the picture, I think I can see why the abs light is on now..
Is it because your wheels are off the ground and not gripping?:lol:
Nah, the sensor wire isn't clipped into its clip on the balljoint, and has probably been rubbing off the rim. Must have forgotten to clip it back when changing the cv boot.
Wanted: boost.
I've got the redbox apc, pots turned up a bit. Base boost of 0.4 bar. All the wear items in ignition system replaced. Timing set at 16 degrees.
I get about 0.65 bar of boost, +- 0.5 bar. Sometimes its barely over 0.5 bar. Premium fuel seems to make no difference.
Have tried retarding it a few degrees, no difference. Swapping out the apc make no difference. Obviously the car is knocking, but I'm trying to narrow down what is making it knock.
Turbo seals letting a significant amount of oil into intake. Theres not much oil in the intake, so I dunno about this.
Spark weak - I dunno, the coil agrees with the spec in the bentley, and all the plug wires are new. Have tried gapping the plugs differently. Nope.
Apc being over cautious. Still a possibility I suppose. One of my apcs is originally from a 9000, the other from a T8. The knock sensor looks like its sitting at the correct angle, and the bolt is tight. Could check the cable I suppose.
Any more ideas? Thanks.
IronJoe
17-07-07, 12:34 AM
1. Verify you are capable of high boost. Pull the W hose to the solenoid and go for a drive (carefully!) If you get boost-gone-wild than you know it's not a mechanical problem
2. If above works, it must be electrical. Do the easiest tests first. Unbolt knock sensor & wrap in rag, go for a drive. how's the boost? If it's the same, then it's not the knock sensor hearing anything, it's something else.
From there go thru the APC walkthrough @ townsend. You may have to test the pressure transducer, etc.
#1 has already been tried. Yep, loads of boost.
#2 - worth a shot. Never thought of it that way.
Cheers :)
Matthew
17-07-07, 01:12 AM
You say the plug wires are new. Did you have normal boost with the old wires? If so, can you swap them back?
A boost problem on a friend's car was finally solved with new plug wires, and that was after we'd tried everything else!
The boost didn't change after swapping the wires. I would have swapped the m back if it had dropped :) What happened on your friends car is what I keep expecting to happen on my car after swapping a part, but it never does. I've just changed the lead from the coil to distributor the other day, not a jot of difference either.
Matthew
17-07-07, 10:54 AM
Knock sensor in rag time then!
When you re-fit the knock sensor, you have to get the bolt torque correct. The sensor is a piezoelectric element, the sensitivity of which is affected by clamping load. You'll need a decent torque wrench; the torque figure's in the Bentley book IIRC.
Saab-Daniel
17-07-07, 11:03 AM
You'll need a decent torque wrench; the torque figure's in the Bentley book IIRC.
Yep, should be 20nm, afair... But do check up on that, before tightening it... :)
Daniel.
IronJoe
17-07-07, 04:43 PM
Knock sensor in rag time then!
When you re-fit the knock sensor, you have to get the bolt torque correct. The sensor is a piezoelectric element, the sensitivity of which is affected by clamping load. You'll need a decent torque wrench; the torque figure's in the Bentley book IIRC.
Not only is there a correct torque figure, the knock sensor also uses a particular degree of positioning to achieve best results. It's in the bentley, something like 20* off center.
I know it doesn't seem like much but just cleaning the area around the sensor & the bolt hole, orienting the position correctly, and setting the proper torque makes all the difference.
Yep. I don't *think* the sensor has been touched, it looks to be sitting at the same angle that is prescribed in the bentley. But, it won't hurt to try. I don't think my current crappy torque wrench is going to be accurate at that low level of torque, or indeed any level of torque, so I'm going to buy a halfords professional torque wrench on the way home, it has gotten good reviews. <edit> might save some time by unbolting knock sensor before the drive home :) </edit>
In other news, maybe this has arrived as well:
http://www.uksaabs.co.uk/files/thumbs/t_dscn3150_122.jpg
Albert Trout
17-07-07, 04:55 PM
Oh yeah! You'll love it Phil. Just don't tell Matthew :D
So, I got the kit, and a guage which was purchased in a saabcentral group buy. The guage was not fitted previously, so the connections are wrong. Guage needs to go between fpr and fuel rail, but as you can see in the picture, the large bore hose to the fuel rail is connected to the fpr. The connectors on the guage housing are smaller bore.
I thought I'd switch the fpr connector + hose with one of the guage connectors, use small bore hose between fpr and guage, and then the guage would hook up to the rail.
But eh... the connection for the fuel rail hose on the malpassi is a press fit into it, not a thread? Help.
Albert Trout
19-07-07, 10:31 AM
Get some injector hose from e-bay and replace the hose which runs from the rail to the FPR. Here's a picture of mine.
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f144/albertrtrout/IMG_0468.jpg
I bought an adaptor for the gauge (http://www.fuelsystem.co.uk/guages.htm), so when I want to check the pressure I undo the hose at the fuel-rail end. I have a small length of hose attached to the adaptor and just fit it in line.
Yeah, I wish I'd thought of this before I tried to remove the connector from the fpr. 15mm nut. Seemed to unscrew a bit, now its not going in or out. Hammer it back in? I'd rather leave the guage there full time.
Albert Trout
19-07-07, 11:02 AM
I thought about leaving the gauge in but I just thought it would be adding to the list of things that could, possibly, go wrong. I've only had petrol spray in my eyes once while checking the pressure :lol:
Don't know about hammering it back in. Didn't have any problems so I've no experience there.
Matthew
19-07-07, 01:01 PM
I found an old picture of my car when the gauge was installed:
http://www.hexfiles.com/saabcentral/f273/engine_bay2.jpg
You have to butcher the FPR/rail hose. Remove the outer hose, and then cut (or melt) off the hard plastic inner hose. Fit the supplied fuel hose to the brass fittings as shown in the picture.
The original group buy thread should give you further fitting tips:
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18682
Thanks lads for your help.
The brass fitting into the rrfpr is my problem, I've loosened it through my own stupidity. Obviously the nut on it is only to counter hold when tightening the 17mm nut from the hose... D'oh.
Any suggestions for fitting it back together properly?
After that, do you mean butcher the fpr->rail hose supplied with the malpassi? You can see in the picture I posted that the hose currently attached to the malpassi looks like a standard one.
The fuel hose supplied struggles to go onto the 6mm brass tails on the t-piece, I don't think its going to go onto the fpr connector :)
All isn't lost though, the leading carb/fuel injection specialist in Ireland is 5 minutes from my workplace. So I'll head over there and get the bits I need.
Matthew
19-07-07, 01:48 PM
That might be best. They might be able to make up a nice proper hose instead of something held together with clips :D
I remember from the group buy that different size fuel hose was required for different MY cars.
The FPR/rail hose in the picture loks different to the one I butchered for the gauge install.
Well, after a bit of searching, looks like it was previously fitted to an 85 T16S :)
Matthew
19-07-07, 03:02 PM
I remember Rich's silver T16S. Burgundy interior. Very tidy car.
Had those mythical cams, and in stock form with 250,000 miles on the clock made 185BHP! That was at one of the first SaabCentral Power Engineering rolling road days hat used to be held down in Uxbridge.
Well, its fitted, only took the usual couple of hours.
I first decided on the non destructive route, leave the old fpr->rail hose intact, and butcher the one which came with the malpassi. This was a very short length of hose, but I thought I'd been all clever and came up with something which fitted well:
http://lh4.google.com/phil.brennan/RqP2E7kNwDI/AAAAAAAAABk/fnmAW8XFts8/s800/DSC03864.JPG
But unfortunately this leaked, from the only connection that I didn't undo, the connection between hose and banjo bolt. So I had gotten this far, I decided to butcher the original hose for its fittings. Got it fitted up, noticed the pressure was at 5 bar. Since I thought the guage was set for around 3 bar, I decided to put the guage back in its original location, and used a longer piece of hose.
Anyway, its done now, I notice what seems to be a very slight leak from the fpr, at another connection that I didn't touch, where the return connector fits into the fpr. Oh well. I remember looking at another lpt years ago, before I bought mine, it had what now know is a malpassi, dripping fuel at a decent rate. I pointed this out to the owner, and he just said "oh its always done that".. oh well.
Well, the rrfpr seems to be holding ok, but the car isn't going so great. Its "surging" when coming onto boost, sometimes it feels like a misfire. Its not anything to do with the rrfpr, it hasn't changed with the fitting of same. Really, it started when I thought I'd be smart and reset the ecu by disconnecting the battery for a few minutes. When I started it back up the idle was all over the place, but it recovered after a while. Does it take the lucas a good while to learn the mixture again?
Albert Trout
23-07-07, 11:27 PM
Lucas should be good to go from the off Phil. I've had the battery in the house on charge overnight and had no issues.
It seems to be moreso in 2nd gear, 3rd gear seemed smooth on the drive to work.
Oh its a good thing that payday is just around the corner:
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g211/Cynical26/2.jpg
Also have a good used te05 on the way. I'll put the crazy turbo down the list a bit, it can wait till I have better chargecooling and engine management.
Saab-Daniel
26-07-07, 03:37 PM
it can wait till I have better chargecooling and engine management.
There you go, start by measuring the AFR... Then you know what's going on...
Daniel. :)
Heh, I tried to jury-rig an afr guage with a multimeter. I know it won't be accurate, but I'll be able to see sudden changes. Using the ground on the cylinder head, the multimeter seems to react very quickly ( maybe 10 updates a second ).
It strikes me that afr guages rigged to a generic 02 sensor cannot be very much use though, surely the scale for sensor voltage vs real AFR is going to differ between sensors.
I did notice that the sensor was putting out up to 1.5 volts at idle. What the hell, I though it was only supposed to go up to 1 volt :D
So, got the narrowband hooked up. Wrong way, so theres a minus sign in front of the voltage ( ignore ), and the voltage is in millivolts. Low voltage = lean, high voltage=rich:
From an old post by alex:
volts air/fuel Lambda
=====================
0.250 15.0:1 1.02
0.375 14.5:1 0.99
0.500 14.0:1 0.95
0.625 13.5:1 0.92
0.750 13.0:1 0.88
0.875 12.5:1 0.85
1.000 12.0:1 0.82
So..
This is after it has been floored for about 3 seconds, you can see where the boost guage is. But the o2 sensor hasn't reacted yet.
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/o2/galleryData/medium-DSC03874.JPG
Heres an example of a when it does finally go the other way, the voltage is too high.( again, ignore the - sign )
http://www.minds.nuim.ie/%7Ephilb/photos/saab/o2/galleryData/medium-DSC03872.JPG
Heres (http://www.youtube.com/v/DuNzbPf2Rkc) a video of the sensor output at idle.
So, its reacting far too slowly, ( taking a few seconds sometimes, when it should be 100ms) , and chucking out too high a voltage. Which means its output is useless to the ecu. Since lucas is closed loop for quite a lot of its operation, it ( could )explain why the car is only going smoothly on full throttle.
Saab-Daniel
27-07-07, 08:21 AM
From an old post by alex:
volts air/fuel Lambda
=====================
0.250 15.0:1 1.02
0.375 14.5:1 0.99
0.500 14.0:1 0.95
0.625 13.5:1 0.92
0.750 13.0:1 0.88
0.875 12.5:1 0.85
1.000 12.0:1 0.82
You know that is purely guessing, phil, right?
The narrowband is ONLY accurate at 14.7 afr, which equals 1 lambda...
In no other situation is it accurate... So I wouldn't bet too much on it, just by reading that.
Also, the ECU wouldn't take notice of the signal from the lambda at WOT, but I know you know that :)
Daniel.
Yeah, that table is a guess. What I do know is that the spec for the lambda is 0-1V. The sensor on my car is going over 1v, and reacts far far slower than the spec, which is 100ms.
I think thats fairly clear from the pictures and video. At WOT, yea I know it isn't taking notice of it, this is why the car goes properly!
But, it should still be providing some sort of reasonable reading, instead of staying on 0.01v for a few seconds after the car goes WOT.
The main reason it causes so much problems is that lucas uses closed loop fuelling for quite a lot of the time, switchover point is dependent on TPS and rpm, and up to that point, the car is going crap. Hope this makes sense :)
Saab-Daniel
27-07-07, 01:00 PM
Don't you need to search for your problem in the lambda-sensor or TPS-sensor then, mate?
Daniel.
Sorry, I forgot to fill in the conclusion bit :) It all points to a bad o2 sensor alright. Now to find a reasonably priced one. http://www.lambdasensors.co.uk/ is one of the most useless websites
around, anyone got any better suppliers?
Swapped the turbo, only took half a day:o I was really taking my time with this job, not wanting to mess anything up or have any leaks afterwards. The only tough bit was to get the water connection at the front of the turbo to stop leaking, it needs to be bloody tight. I couldn't see a whole lot wrong with the old turbo after removing it. But all the wierd noises are gone, engine sounds better.
The old actuator was a turbo technics refurbed item, but it was wound down all the way and only producing 0.4 bar base boost, so I used the actuator that came with the new(er) turbo. Of course, after the first proper boost, the actuator rod came off the wastegate. Bah, hopefully its not raining in the morning.
Also, super aeros arrived, but are not fitted. All of the tyres were different, and 2 were in terrible condition, lumps gone out of them, and perished/cracked all over. A pity, as I was hoping to get a bit of use out of the tyres before shelling out for a new set.
Going to go for falken 452's, they are a good bit cheaper than toyo t1-r's, but are getting good reviews.
Wound up the base boost to the correct level. Full boost seems to be closer to a bar now, but it doesn't hold it for very long. Am going to buy some octane booster, since we can't get anything more than 95 octane in Ireland.
Added some octane booster - the jury is still out on this one. Don't laugh - you can't buy 98 octane petrol in Ireland. Wynns octane booster claims to bring 95 -> 97, but with only a small bottle, I dunno how this is possible. Might be time to get some cellulose thinners... which brand is good Tomarse? :)
Tyres are arriving early next week, will get them fitted asap.
Tomarse
10-08-07, 01:13 PM
Might be time to get some cellulose thinners... which brand is good Tomarse? :)
The cheapest one! ;) (£8-£10/gallon at the indy paint shop round here - much more resonable than octane boost in 250ml pots!)
I looked at the ingredients on my cheap cellulose thinners and the posher anti-bloom stuff.
IIRC the cheap one was just tuolene (often used on its own as an octane booster) zylene and a bit of methanol. Which sounded better to me than the posh one which had more stuff i hadnt heard of in it! (butanol and some other stuff)
Be carefull adding it into the tank. you dont want to spill it on your pain!. decant it into a smaller bottle and use a big funnel or something similar.
Do some experiments on quantity and see how it works out. I was just starting to play with adding half a litre at a time to my tank when my road tax and mot ran out and i've been too skint and busy with other toya to get it back on the road since. start with trying 1/2 - 1l for a tank of juice and see what happes. Increase as required.
Alanb on UK saabs was playing with thinners and tuolene too but he never said exactly how much he was using. Think he ended up pouring most of a tin of thinners into his car for the last trackday he did in it and then blew the engine up :lol:
idiot_saabvant
10-08-07, 05:38 PM
You may consider something called Ficht fuel catalyst. The US Army bought a hole bunch of this stuff so it can't be all that bad. Plus I've used in my two strokes with great success. Am considering bolting this on to my SAAB this winter as gas around here is just plain poopy.
pierre
ejenner
10-08-07, 05:57 PM
Alanb on UK saabs was playing with thinners and tuolene too but he never said exactly how much he was using. Think he ended up pouring most of a tin of thinners into his car for the last trackday he did in it and then blew the engine up
yeah. this was when Alan finally gave up and decided to break the Aero for parts... :lol:
Blew a fist-sized hole in the front of the block.
http://www.red-green.co.uk/web/photos/saabpics/alanb_coombe_0407_002.jpg
http://www.red-green.co.uk/web/photos/saabpics/alanb_coombe_0407_001.jpg
http://www.red-green.co.uk/web/photos/saabpics/alanb_coombe_0407_003.jpg
pierre - sounds like thats a good system if you need to store fuel. Might end up doing that as you can buy 100 octane petrol in bulk alright.
ejenner - yep, that first photo is excellent :)
idiot_saabvant
10-08-07, 07:28 PM
That is going to be a test I perform this weekend, trying 102 octane aircraft fuel. I have also thought about bulk, as I have several 55 gallon fuel cans laying around, but at present no where to store.
Good luck Philb
Knock led fitted, finally. I just moved the brake switch wire from pin 20 to pin 19 in the apc connector. Led is in a dash blanking plate, to the right of the cigarette lighter socket. It does work, but I think I need to get a more sensitive led. It has flickered a few times, during extensive testing.
Just a small observation. I didn't have time before the turbo swap to source a new o2 sensor. So, I tried to clean it, with a prolonged spraying of carb cleaner. Seems to have worked..
Also fixed the abs sensor, so I have working abs again. Which is handy, with these crappy tyres. Even the meagre boost from my car is enough for wheelspin in 4th in the wet.
Ok - time to start project megasquirt. Looking for input - what kit should I go for? I'm aiming for the most straightforward install, so:
Trigger from hall sensor on dizzy.
What coil to use? I think I can use the standard coil, or wasted spark with ford coilpacks. Which is easiest?
Map sensor - I need to get one from a 9k, yes?
lucas tps will work
lucas ntc will work also I presume.
need intake air temp sensor as well
Where can I get the kit? I want to save some cash and put it together myself. I see bill shurvintons name mentioned a lot, but no contact details for him.
ejenner
13-08-07, 11:06 AM
I wouldn't do it Phil... I know megasquirt is popular on here and I know I risk getting shot-down but I suggest you go for something like DTA instead. http://www.dtafast.co.uk/products.htm
When I was looking at megasquirt I found a guy selling pre-built kits on eBay for about £250. The DTA ECU's cost more like £400~500. So you could save some money by going for megasquirt but I don't think it would be as fun as buying an off-the-shelf ECU. I think if I change the management on the 99 at some point I will be going for something like DTA. The Carlsson is getting the Motec M800.
I would say hooking up the DI pack should be the aim for you. All it needs is a power supply to the power the thing and then an ECU to tell it which plug to fire. There are 4 trigger wires and the cassette just connects to the ignition outputs on the ECU. No need to consider anything else. The DI pack is powerful and it is designed to slot into the top of the Saab cylinder head. It's perfect for the job and is still being used in the modern Saabs so clearly a capable bit of kit. Saab have been using it for nearly 20 years now (can you believe that!) First introduced on the 9000 CD 2.0 turbo in 1988...!
Its all about what you want to get out of it really. If I just wanted better engine management as fast as possible, I'd go for something like the dtafast or an emerald. But, I want to learn about engine management, with a view to being able to customise and extend megasquirt. The lower budget appeals also - I don't have 800 euro to chuck at an ecu. Theres plenty of support out there if I run into trouble with megasquirt.
As for DI, well if I do that, it would be hooked up to megasquirt. I'm not doing it at the start because I want to be realistic, and avoid unnecessary complexity and expense up front.
The standard saab di is extremely good at what it does, no argument there. What about mapping it though, and adding cool features and functions? I want something that gives you access to whats going on, that is fully mappable and configurable, by myself.
Albert Trout
13-08-07, 11:22 AM
If you trigger from the hall sensor Phil you're as well using the stock coil. If you were to use Ford coilpacks you'd need EDIS which requires a crank sensor.
MAP sensor comes with the ECU so you don't have to worry about that.
Lucas TPS & NTC will both work. Intake air temp sensor from a 9000 will do the trick as far as that is concerned.
I can't remember Bill's contact number but if you're just looking for the parts and then to make it yourself there are a lot of options. Go to www.msefi.com (http://www.msefi.com/) There's a lot of info about purchasing there.
The reason I'm looking at MS is that you learn a mountain of stuff about engine management and the DIY nature of it appeals to me.
Yeah, it would be good to use the stock setup. I remember you saying that ms needed modification to talk to the lucas ignition module though?
Albert Trout
13-08-07, 11:38 AM
Yeah, it would be good to use the stock setup. I remember you saying that ms needed modification to talk to the lucas ignition module though?
That was my fault though ;oops: When I ordered the ECU I asked Phil to set it up to drive the coil directly, which seemed like the simplest solution. But then I realised that the Lucas ECU will still need an RPM signal for fuelling, which comes from the module, so I decided to drive the coil through the module instead, which required me to solder in a couple of wires.
Saab-Daniel
13-08-07, 12:02 PM
Driving ignition out of one coil is really easy, and a great way to get started.
Ejenner, to be able to run the DI-box as COP (coil on plug), you need to fit a camshaft-sensor, which the ECU has to be able to work with. Otherwise you are stuck in wasted-spark. The DI-unit shouldn't be used above 9k rpm (Saab-guy working with developing saab-engines told me that) in COP-mode. If run in wasted-spark, you have half that available, 4500rpm. Thereby not saying it might cope with it in wasted spark, you just need to consider it.
I have a hard time seeing what the trouble is, with MS, as I know a lot of guys running it now, with better driveability and less trouble than ever before... Also, using DTA, for example, leaves you no options but to use the sensors etc. that that ECU is developed for. In MS, you control that on your own, and can use whatever you want :)
Daniel.
ejenner
13-08-07, 12:03 PM
If you trigger from the hall sensor Phil you're as well using the stock coil
not quite. The DI coil packs are much more powerful than the standard coil and therfore much more appropriate for an ignition system on a turbocharged application. People decrease the plug gap on their spark-plugs so the spark isn't blown out by the harsh conditions inside the combustion chamber. No such issue with DI. My 99 is setup with the normal sized plug gap and still runs at full power without missfires and 9:1 compression.
But, I want to learn about engine management, with a view to being able to customise and extend megasquirt.
I'd suggest it's been done already. All you will get is a headache. I know enough about engine management to be able to setup a fully mappable ignition system on a 900i 8v and to carry out the DI upgrade on the 99. I have learned as I have gone along and it wasn't necessary to get involved with megasquirt in order to find out what I know now - be that a lot or a little... ;)
As for DI, well if I do that, it would be hooked up to megasquirt. I'm not doing it at the start because I want to be realistic, and avoid unnecessary complexity and expense up front.
The difference in complexity is 3 wires. You either connect megasquirt to the ignition module trigger wire or you use the 4 trigger wires on the DI cassette.
The standard saab di is extremely good at what it does, no argument there. What about mapping it though, and adding cool features and functions? I want something that gives you access to whats going on, that is fully mappable and configurable, by myself.
Don't confuse the cassette with the DI controller. The cassette is just a coil-pack containing 4 individual coils. The controller is the bit where the intelligence is. This is where all the mapping issues occur. If you were doing megasquirt or hooking the DI pack up to an ECU then this controller is not required to make the DI work. The nice thing about the DI coil pack is that the coils themselves are sitting right on top of the spark plugs. The plug connects straight to the coil. No HT leads. This means the DI coil-pack can respond instantly and also that the rest of the car is shielded from interference because the coils are sealed inside the DI pack and the outside of the DI pack is radio shielded to prevent any leakage. Although, having said all of the above, it is possible to map the DI ignition settings - you just need the software and a chip-burner. I've got the software but no chip-burner. If you remember Ragnar from Sweden - he does all his own mapping on the DI and trionic systems.
I appriciate where you chaps are comming from but megasquirt is a lot of work. And it's only a lot of work because you have to do a lot of the development work yourself. If not actual development work on the code then certianly lots of peicing together of various different bits of auto electronic components and previously developed megasquirt code and components. I also wouldn't be surprised if the megasquirt ended up costing as much as something like a DTA in any case - after all the running about buying little bits and peices.
You know I'm not the type to shy-away from a project but I've looked into megasquirt and it looks like a can of nasty infected worms and I'm not up for that. Maybe one day I might. But I would want to have a lot of spare time. At the moment I'd rather spend my spare time on other parts of the car instead of sitting on the msefi forum.
Saab-Daniel
13-08-07, 12:10 PM
Good thing we disagree, then Emmett, otherwise the forum would be rather dull :D
Just buying the DTA-ECU is the same as just buying the MS-ecu prebuild... Still needs sensors, wiringloom and so on... Also, I have mapped a car with a DTA, and must say I'm not impressed at all... Very old system with no proper realtime-mapping, and needed to buy a £50 cable just to be able to start mapping it myself...
But again, that's just me... :)
Daniel.
Albert Trout
13-08-07, 12:10 PM
not quite. The DI coil packs are much more powerful than the standard coil and therfore much more appropriate for an ignition system on a turbocharged application. People decrease the plug gap on their spark-plugs so the spark isn't blown out by the harsh conditions inside the combustion chamber. No such issue with DI. My 99 is setup with the normal sized plug gap and still runs at full power without missfires and 9:1 compression.
Yes quite. I was talking about MegaSquirt, which is what Phil was asking about.
I'd suggest it's been done already. All you will get is a headache. I know enough about engine management to be able to setup a fully mappable ignition system on a 900i 8v and to carry out the DI upgrade on the 99. I have learned as I have gone along and it wasn't necessary to get involved with megasquirt in order to find out what I know now - be that a lot or a little... ;)
Hmm, I have an interest in the area of engine management, what better way to learn than to set up megasquirt on my own car? I think we differ in terms of engine management "means to an end" or "end in itself".
The difference in complexity is 3 wires. You either connect megasquirt to the ignition module trigger wire or you use the 4 trigger wires on the DI cassette.
I don't think its that simple unfortunately. Theres also code changes needed to make it work, and a cam sensor.
But, nowhere have I said that I don't think its the way to go - it just not what I want to attempt at the start.
Don't confuse the cassette with the DI controller. The cassette is just a coil-pack containing 4 individual coils. The controller is the bit where the intelligence is. This is where all the mapping issues occur. If you were doing megasquirt or hooking the DI pack up to an ECU then this controller is not required to make the DI work. The nice thing about the DI coil pack is that the coils themselves are sitting right on top of the spark plugs. The plug connects straight to the coil. No HT leads. This means the DI coil-pack can respond instantly and also that the rest of the car is shielded from interference because the coils are sealed inside the DI pack and the outside of the DI pack is radio shielded to prevent any leakage. Although, having said all of the above, it is possible to map the DI ignition settings - you just need the software and a chip-burner. I've got the software but no chip-burner. If you remember Ragnar from Sweden - he does all his own mapping on the DI and trionic systems.
I know the difference between cassette and controller, and all the reasons why DI is better. But because I'm not going to be hooking it up to the saab DI controller, I'm going to leave it for the time being.
I understand that its more work. But thats my whole point, I want to get the car up and running with the simplest setup, which has already been done. And then go from there.
ejenner
13-08-07, 04:05 PM
I knew I'd be shot-down for this but though I'd risk it in any case. Like Daniel says... it's good to have a bit of debate sometimes. :cool:
I'll be ripping up the Irish tarmac in exactly 11 days time Phil. I might be able to offer you some free courior services if you can think of anything you want transporting from England.
Yup, debate is good - its usually well informed debate on this site as well. Thanks for the offer, you are bringing the 99 over then? :cheesy: I want to get some mild steel pipes and bends for making a downpipe, also need to delete the cats on the 325. But the shipping always costs as much as the exhaust itself. So I'll investigate..
ejenner
13-08-07, 05:40 PM
yes. I will be piloting the 99 to Irish shores.
http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/aeros/DSC03889.JPG
obligatory super aeros shot - yes the car is dirty.
ejenner
14-08-07, 09:41 PM
Cool, you got a set. I remember you were scheeming for a set of these when we were in Sweden. Where did they turn up in the end?
philjohnhb
15-08-07, 08:47 AM
http://philb.syndicate7.net/photos/saab/aeros/DSC03889.JPG
obligatory super aeros shot - yes the car is dirty.
More car/wheel porn - excellent!
Got them off cynical@uksaabs - very reasonable price. Pity about the tyres though, 4 different ones, and the newest was 5 years old. So I didn't put them on the car till I got 4 new falken fk452's. 205/50/16. They are kerbed pretty badly, but are otherwise in very good nick.
There is a bit of wheel rub on the right rear over big bumps, putting bump stops on should sort it.
philjohnhb
15-08-07, 01:46 PM
There is a bit of wheel rub on the right rear over big bumps, putting bump stops on should sort it.
Go on a diet!
The only time I get rubbing on mine is when the trailing arm mud flaps scrape the ground - have a look at the bottom of those.
Right so, have done some searching, heres how it will be sorted.
- remove plastic arch extensions
- clean arches, waxoyl
- cut inside of plastic arch extensions back a good bit.
- re-attach with silicone, remove all metal screws and clips
- bumpstops are on their way, fit them.
philjohnhb
16-08-07, 12:00 PM
- re-attach with silicone, remove all metal screws and clips
.
Iron Joe and I had this thought ourselves but decided to go with at least one metal fastener of some kind. The thought of losing an arch (particularly airflow) doesn't bear thinking about.
Yeah. I think one clip could be left on at the front, since the wheel is closer to the back of the arch. I'm not interested in shortening the wheelbase, its short enough as is. I think its worth taking off all the clips and taking the plastic arch off, but I wonder what are the chances of the clips being re-useable.
I've also noticed that the right hand side is sitting lower than the left, by a few mm. I think I've only heard rubbing from that side.
Need a bit of help.
The engine has been leaking oil pretty badly for quite some time. Maybe half a litre every few hundred miles. I've never bothered tracking it down, but its now getting worse, going to have to sort it.
I will take some pictures, but I'll try to describe it first. Most of the side of the block on the exhaust side is covered in oil. It *appears* to be coming from the very back of the engine ( front of the car ), where the block end plate, cylinder head, and block meet.
This is also very close to the distributor, but I don't think the distributor is letting go of that much oil. Of course I will have to check.
Ejenner, you mentioned that area ( meeting point of block, block end plate and head ) as a prime candidate for an oil leak. You said that extra sealant is needed in that area. Please correct me if I'm wrong. So, do I need to pull the engine to change that seal?
The bentley says not to use any sealent on the block end plate, just the paper gasket. It also looks like theres a fair chance of disturbing the crank oil seal, unless you use a saab special tool when installing the end plate.
Help.
Albert Trout
17-08-07, 11:37 AM
You checked the oil return pipe from the turbo, Phil? You might be "lucky" and just need to replace the o-ring on that.
Nah, its coming from above that. I need to clean up the engine and then see where its coming from.
Albert Trout
17-08-07, 12:00 PM
Proper @rse ache that. My crank seal's leaking and I really can't be bothered fixing it.
unkleG'sif
17-08-07, 12:33 PM
my leak has turned out to be what i think is the gasket between g'box and block... was last disturbed by SarbKar in Liverpool when they had the engine out..... many of the bolts were only fingertight, and 3 were missing altogether :evil:
lesson learned... thats twice ive had cause for concern on their work :o
G
ejenner
17-08-07, 03:40 PM
You won't have to remove the engine to replace the seal if you're sure it's the one I was talking to you about.
Here's a photo:
http://www.red-green.co.uk/web/photos/saabpics/end_plate_001.jpg
I've found a smearing of Loctite 518 in this area both above and below the head gasket keeps
that part of the engine leak free.
The end-plate can be sealed perfectly using Loctite 518 if you were to take out the engine and rebuild it.
The reason the sealant is good here is because you've got three components joining together. As well
as this it is also an oil-way between the block and the head and lots of pressurised oil flows through
this joint. At the moment
the only leak on the 99 is from the hose running to the oil cooler. It's not bad enough for me to worry
about at the moment and lucky enough it's easy to replace when I get around to it.
So to fix this you basically have to perform a head-gasket job. Could be done in a day. I also apply sealant
to same area on the timing cover at the other end of the engine. Above and below the headgasket. Don't need
to use much, just a continious, un-broken bead about 1.5mm thick.
Excellent. Thanks Emmett.
Just wondering, by above, do you mean putting some sealant between headgasket and head?
I don't particularly want to pull the engine unless its to replace it or the gearbox. So, I think I'll leave it where it is, and I'll combine a few things.
- Remove head
- Decoke head, do a full leakdown test ( or replace head )
- Replace timing chain.
- Apply sealant at the area in the photo.
ejenner
17-08-07, 06:35 PM
above and below.
ejenner
17-08-07, 09:15 PM
RE timing chain. I'd measure the length that the tensioner has extended and only replace those components if they are worn close to or past specification. The reason I suggest this is that you can't really get to the bottom sprocket while the engine is in the car. Maybe you could do it on my 99 but in many cases there is a locating pin sticking out from the top of the gearbox which would stop the timing cover being drawn away from the block (assuming nothing else caused you any trouble)
On the 99 two things help. I've not got a locating stud. It's a bolt instead. And secondly, the hatch through from the interior would allow some better access to the engine.
There is quite a big difference in wear between a well worn set of sprockets and a new set. I've seen them side-by-side and you can see the wear from 10 feet away. Don't know if anyone has side-by-side photos. I don't think I'd like to combine a new timing chain with old sprockets. Even if it was only one old sprocket. You'd also need to take the timing cover off if you wanted to do the chain guides. Wear on the guides also allows slack in the chain.
Edit: It might be possible. The limiting factor is how much trouble the locating dowels would cause. The dowels between the timing cover and the block.
Well, its a bit wierd, since the chain, sprockets and guides were replaced with the bits from pfs when the engine was "rebuilt". I even have the old, worn items as proof that the parts were changed. I doubt the sprockets have worn in 15k miles, but then again obviously something has worn. I'll reset the tensioner and see what happens.
ejenner
17-08-07, 09:32 PM
I thought the timing chain was in a bad way on my dads car but after thinking about it for a long while I decided to remove the belt from the air conditioning compressor... and guess what...!
If only. The timing chain was knackered when I got the car first, so I know what it sounds like unfortunately.
Added a few turns to the wastegate. Boost is now the same in 3rd gear as 4th and 5th, I think extra base boost matters more to the apc when there is less load on the engine, something to do with the F circuit activating I think.
Also scary in 2nd gear, but I don't think it will make 60mph before the limiter.
Occasional knock led flicker during the day, no knock at all in colder night air.
This evening, adding rear bump stops and removing some more rear arch plastic and clips. Those metal clips are really, really stupid.
The metal "washer" that remains from the original bump stop should add some useful margin of error to the new bump stops. Just as well, since I'm going to really tempt fate by towing an (empty) car trailer on friday.
Have kicked off the megasquirt ordering process. Going for a prebuilt from extraefi.co.uk, otherwise it will never get done.
ejenner
21-08-07, 09:01 PM
that's the spirit Phil! Does it not spool up fast and then level out to the point which the APC thinks the boost should be at? I think it's just into the 'red' on an APC with the pots turned up.
Yeah, I think there is a slight spike, it holds at somewhere between 0.8 and 0.9 bar. Its 1/2 to 3/4 through the red. There is some taper with higher revs, even though I've bypassed r42.
In other news, I added the bump stops. Bolts and threads fairly dodgy. Looks like my car had the extended bump stops. Theres a large ( maybe 3cm ) metal spacer between the body of the car and the old bump stop. Tyre rub is pretty much gone I think, but has been replaced by the mudflap hitting the ground on the drivers side. With the car empty, the drivers side is about 15 - 20mm lower at the rear :evil:
mail from philip ringwood:
I would need to know if the dizzy's hall sensor gives 5/12V when theres
a tooth infront of it or when it sees a gap.
I'm sure some of you already know the answer :)
Saab-Daniel
22-08-07, 10:43 PM
Tell him, you need to use a pull-up resistor to make the signal strong enough.
That should be enough...
I used this guidance: http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup-msns.html
Never thought of anything else than that...
Daniel.
Albert Trout
23-08-07, 08:47 AM
mail from philip ringwood:
I'm sure some of you already know the answer :)
What was the question Phil?:) As Daniel says a 1kohm resistor between the 12V and the hall signal does the trick.
I think he is asking if the signal occurs when the tooth passes the sensor, or when the gap passes the sensor.
Albert, did he give you any detail about the setup that he built for you? Since mine is identical, I could just ask for the same.
Albert Trout
23-08-07, 06:29 PM
I'm not completely certain Phil, as I can't really remember but the I THINK the signal goes high (tooth in front) low (gap) @ 5volts.
Quite annoying. I had info at the time I bought it in e-mails I sent to Phil but they were on my work PC and I deleted them all to protect myself from the IT police at work.
No worries, I will ask him to lookup the details of the system he made for you. Thanks lads.
So, which pin on the ignition module goes to the spark output on megasquirt?
Saab-Daniel
29-08-07, 01:16 PM
Pin6 on the ignition module ;)
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup-msns.html
GO Phil GO! :D
Daniel.
Well, I don't have it yet, I'm still in the process of ordering it. Since I'm paying phil@extraefi to build it, I don't want to get it wrong.
I understand how it works now, at least.
Hall sensor is connected to megasquirt.
Megasquirt triggers ignition module
ignition module triggers coil
Cheers!
Saab-Daniel
29-08-07, 03:33 PM
Precisely Phil...
ORDER Phil, ORDER!
Daniel.
IronJoe
29-08-07, 07:10 PM
GO PHIL GO! Take lots of pics and detail your install!
(so I can copy it)
ejenner
30-08-07, 09:36 AM
does the pin number on the ignition module not change depending on the type of ignition module being used? I would think so.
I'm also pretty sure there is a difference between Daniel's T8 ignition module and the ignition module in use on a Lucas T16?
I think it's worth double-checking.
What's the part number on your ignition module phil?
Well, I realise that the pin doesn't matter, with regard to how the megasquirt is wired. Its just something I have to double check when I'm connecting it up.
There are many modules on this page:
http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup-msns.html
And it seems to imply they are all wired the same.
The only reason I'm double checking things now is to be sure I'm getting a megasquirt thats wired correctly and ready to go.
So, next question.. I know that I could install the megasquirt box where the lucas ecu is currently, but since I'm keeping it for the moment, where is a good place to put it?
ejenner
31-08-07, 09:17 AM
you could put it in the space behind the centre console in front of the gear leaver. That's not too far from where you want it to eventually end up so wouldn't require much re-wiring work to get it moved when you complete the switch-over.
However, having had a car flood-damaged before I have ever since had a thing about mounting electronics too close to the floor. If I could choose and there was another space higher up somewhere then I'd go there instead of low down. I know it seems like a silly reason, but I've had a cars electronics corrode on me after being too low to the ground and emersed in high water.
Ok, it is ordered. Apparently I'll have it in about a week. There seems to be very few wires needed to hookup the ignition side of things. Just the hall sensor, and spark output.
Aside from that, the megasquirt needs power. Going to think about how to do a neat wiring job..
ejenner
31-08-07, 05:55 PM
well it needs a load sensor of some sort as well. but I guess you'll use the MAP sensor built-into the megasquirt.
only using it for spark at the minute.
Saab-Daniel
31-08-07, 10:02 PM
For ignition, grounds and 12v along with wiring to the ignition-module and from the hall-sensor is all that's needed.
Other than that, I have wired up:
1. For coolant
1. For inlet-air
2. For TPS
1. For lambda-sensor
2. For Injectors (divided into 2 more each, at the injectors)
2. For boost-control
That's not that bad, is it?
I've kept the original fuel-relay, but you need that on a T16, I don't :cool:
Daniel
ejenner
01-09-07, 10:04 AM
so if you don't have load info going to the ECU does that not mean it will provide the same ignition map no matter what the load situation is? i.e. only according to rpm? is the standard dissy ignition not responding to load when it pressurises the capsule on the top of the dissy and shifts the timing?
true, the map sensor is used as a load sensor for the ignition map. ignition map is vs manifold pressure and rpm.
Not exactly a big deal to wire it up :)
Wonder whats the best location for the map sensor on a the 900 intake setup?
I've just remembered I've a spare engine wiring loom from a lucas car. Should make it easier to identify wires in the loom thats on the car.
ejenner
01-09-07, 10:16 AM
the best place is on a dedicated port which only feeds only the map sensor. You've also got to make sure there's no chance of pulsing in the vac line. So either use a stiff hose or a short enough run that there isn't too much slack in the vac line. Idealy, the sensor will also be in line or slightly above the exit from the manifold. I guess that makes it a bit difficult with the sensor inside the MS case. The sensor should also be vibration isolated so vibrations can't affect the reading.
At a guess, I could feed it from the vac line that currently goes to the vac capsule on the distributor.
Meanwhile, I went to make a fairly simple change on saturday. I've received a scantech bypass valve from mysaab, an irish supplier of c900 parts. I was looking forward to fitting it, since the cheap hks valve I've got on there is not really great, the spring in it is far too weak.
But I opened the bonnet and noticed there was no coolant in the reservoir. Turns out there was a pinhole leak in the short 90 degree hose that goes to the bottom of the thermostat. Took most of the weekend to track it down..
Saab-Daniel
03-09-07, 08:41 PM
A few thoughts on the above.
As for the vacuum, a dedicated line would be a good idea, I don't and have no problems, but have thought of it, I must say.
As for pulsing in the vacuum-hose, don't be too concerned, there's been tests on this issue, with the conclusion that it's not a big concerned. The same can be said about the length of the hose. There's been performed testing with vacuum-hoses pulled around a car more than once, with no difference in results, so again, no need to give it too much thought.
Phil, make sure you use a vac-line with both vacuum and pressure (i.e one from the manifold-side of the tb).
As for the map-sensor being sensitive to vibration, well... IF it should be affected, I highly doubt it would be more than MAX 1 kpa, which is nothing in the big picture. This has never been an issue with MS at all...
Daniel.
Saab-Daniel
03-09-07, 09:00 PM
Ohh, yeah, Phill, you say you have en extra harness lying around, you don't have the ECU for it, do you? :cheesy:
Daniel.
Afraid not Daniel, but they aren't too expensive on ebay. Maybe if you fly over and help Albert with his MS install, you can take his old ecu away? :)
Ugh.. car is losing coolant at a rate of knots, even after I bodged a temporary repair on that hose. Seems to be leaking again from the water connection at the front of the turbo. Whats the correct procedure for sealing this up? It gets pretty hot, I think too hot for ptfe tape. Would the loctite 518 work?
<edit> I see theres a seal ring specified on eeuroparts, but I'm not sure thats for the connection between the metal pipe and the turbo..</edit>
Albert Trout
04-09-07, 11:03 AM
Afraid not Daniel, but they aren't too expensive on ebay. Maybe if you fly over and help Albert with his MS install, you can take his old ecu away? :)
He needs to fly over to get me to pull my finger out my ****.
There's a copper washer between the screw fitting & the turbo body Phil. I lost one of mine changing turbos and just used some liquid gasket stuff I got from Halfords and it worked a treat. The Loctite should work just fine.
Ok, the leak in my case is coming from where the end of the water pipe goes into the fitting. Theres then a threaded nut which goes over that. But I don't think sealing the threads would be good enough. Where the end of the water pipe meets the fitting seems to be where the leak is.
Saab-Daniel
04-09-07, 11:35 AM
I'm not pulling anything out of anybody, I can tell you that much :)
Other than that, yeah, get going on the ignition-stuff, it's not bad to set up, as you can see of the small listing I've made above...
You guys just don't know what you are missing, it's just so much fun when you first start the car! :)
Daniel.
Albert Trout
04-09-07, 11:40 AM
I'm sure it is Daniel but I also know what it feels like when the car doesn't start :lol: I have got the Wideband on though. How many earths does that thing need?:o
What sort of nick is the pipe in Phil? Might be rusted. Part of mine disintegrated 2 weeks after I got the car and I had to replace the damaged length with copper.
Pipe looked to be in reasonable nick. The end of it was not rusted. I thought it was supposed to crush to match the shape of the fitting on the turbo fixture, but even after tightening it a lot, that isn't happening.
I suppose it was matched to the fitting on the old turbo, and doesn't want to mould itself to the new one.
When I was fitting the new turbo, it leaked a lot until I tightened the 19mm nut fairly severely.
Is there supposed to be a copper washer in between the end of the pipe, and the fixture? Maybe I should try filing the end of the pipe down.
Albert Trout
04-09-07, 11:51 AM
I might be wrong but I don't think there's any washer in there, just the one I was talking about earlier on the other side. Like you said, I though it was just crushed in by the nut.
Saab-Daniel
04-09-07, 12:09 PM
I have got the Wideband on though. How many earths does that thing need?:o
1 will do. I've crimped mine together and it works like a charmed. Asked around, and a lot of people have done that. As long as it's a good solid earth, you should be doing fine. Hasn't missed a beat with it fitted like that on mine...
Daniel.
Albert Trout
04-09-07, 12:16 PM
Sheeet. I ran them all to the crossmember and crimped them there. No need then :x although it won't do any harm I suppose.
Yea, apparently there is a crush washer in there. It must have stayed in the old turbo. Bah.
Saab-Daniel
04-09-07, 02:19 PM
Albert, now you're sure everything is alright :)
Stort by powering MS up, and connecting the Wideband... And do some datalog :)
You could piggyback the rpm-signal for starters, and connect the map-sensor, and you'd be pretty much set for making your new ve-table...
Or, you could just ask me, to send you a few maps to start out from ;)
Daniel.
Albert Trout
04-09-07, 02:30 PM
Ahhh, of course I can use the RPM signal. Hadn't even thought about that. Was just going to log the MAP and the O2 readings. I'll probably hook all the other sensors up as well. That's all straightforward. Just the getting MS to know where the dizzy is that's scuppering me.
Saab-Daniel
04-09-07, 03:06 PM
Give me a call/pm if you have issues with that, I've talked a few guys through it over the phone... It's not hard at all ;)
And yeah, get it hooked up man!
Daniel.
Is this described in any of the megasquirt manuals?
Saab-Daniel
05-09-07, 08:39 PM
Is what described, mate?
Daniel.
getting ms to know where the dizzy is
ejenner
06-09-07, 12:42 AM
Not sure what you mean by getting MS to know where the dissy is? Basically, with a dissy setup MS knows not which position the engine is in or which cylinder it is trying to fire to. Typically the ECU will just spark according to RPM and load readings. The dissy sorts out which cylinder to fire to.
You guys just don't know what you are missing, it's just so much fun when you first start the car!
Mate... got the t-shirt.. ;)
Still an MS virgin though... but I can wait.
Saab-Daniel
06-09-07, 08:10 AM
Ejenner: ROFL
Phil, there's a complete guide on the net, and yes, you need to tell MS where the dizzy is, because it wont know when to fire the coil otherwise.
This is what you do:
Setup - Hall sensor
First, in Megatune in the Codebase and outputs function, set LED18 to "irq trigger" and send to ECU.
1) Set the crank at TDC
2) Rotate the distributor (opposite direction) just until middle LED turns OFF (sets the crank angle)
3) Make sure the rotor arm points towards the correct contact in the distributor cap
4) Fix the distributor
5) Turn engine backwards until middle LED turns ON (should be almost immediately) and continue turning until it turns OFF again
6) Measure angle BTDC (+/- 10 degrees is good enough) at the crank
7) Enter measured angle in "Trigger angle"
8) Enter "Fixed angle" to 10 degrees
9) Start the engine
10) Adjust "Trigger angle" until the timing light is at 10 degrees
11) Set "Fixed angle" to -10
12) Start tuning
(copy from: http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/setup-msns.html )
Daniel
Albert Trout
06-09-07, 08:56 AM
Phil, they're the instructions I used. When I say I'm having trouble getting MS to know where the dizzy is it's more that I went through these instructions but the LED started doing funny things and the signal disappeared on cranking which I think was all down to the battery running out of gas. I wouldn't be too concerned about getting it right if I was you. I'm just a bit of a scatterbrain and have the attention span of a 3 year old :cheesy:
Saab-Daniel
06-09-07, 11:17 AM
If it was me doing it all over again, I would use the guide to #4, then set a trigger angle at around 80 + 45 (a total of 125 degrees) on a T8 and a total of 65 + 45 (110 degrees) on a T16, and start the car. Note where the timing is with a timing-light, and adjust the trigger-angle until it reads 10 on the flywheel (note you have to have punched in "10" in "Fixed Angle").
When that's done, punch in -10 (sets it to follow the map), and start tuning.
That should pretty much do it.
Daniel.
So, hopefully the hall sensor works in the same way that I've told phil@extraefi that it does. If thats the case, should be straightforward enough.
Albert Trout
06-09-07, 11:57 AM
+45? Where did the +45 come from? I didn't know about the +45 Daniel ;) I was trying to crank at about 75 with no +45. I think you may have solved any future issues ya big mad Dane :cheesy:
Even if the info is wrong Phil, it should be pretty straightforward to mod the box itself. Phil's pretty sharp on the e-mails even after he's got the cash and sent the ECU.
Saab-Daniel
06-09-07, 02:02 PM
Albert, press "F1" in the spark-settings page, that's where you find it help about it ;)
Just below "trigger angle" in the spark-settings, you can add either 22.5 or 45 degrees to the trigger angle. SO, if you need to go higher than 89 degrees trigger-angle, for example to 102 degrees, you set your trigger-angle to 80, and push "22.5" in "Trigger addition" just below the "trigger-angle", and you're set!
I've setup 2 T16's now, and a setting around what I stated before is a great starting point.
Daniel.
Albert Trout
06-09-07, 02:05 PM
Yeah, I know what you're talking about and how to put it in. I just didn't realise I had to. Thought you just left it at zero ;oops:
Saab-Daniel
06-09-07, 03:21 PM
hehe, you've got something to do in the weekend now, albert! :)
Daniel.
Well, got that major water leak ( was 3 litres a day ) sorted
. Replaced wierd small hose at bottom of thermostat housing, and obtained ferrule for turbo water connection. Fitted this evening, no more water leak.
For anyone reading this who has access to e85 - it seems that running a mixture of 12 - 16 % ethanol with 95 octane petrol gets you 98 octane. It certainly makes the knock go away.
The car is handling really, really well on these new falken tyres, I can't recommend them enough. The speeds needed to unstick the car in the dry don't really bear thinking about.
ejenner
12-09-07, 04:02 PM
yes, the chaps at my local tyre shop were raving about them a few months back when I was looking for tyres for the bmw. I decided to go with TOYO's instead though. I based my choice on the ratings on the mytyres.co.uk website. I'm not entirely sure that is the best way to do it but I was happy enough with the TOYO's. According to the website, at the time when I bought the TOYO's they were supposed to be the grippiest, quietest and longest lasting of all the tyres available - including Michelins.
They worked out 120 euro cheaper than toyo proxes t1-r's. Getting 888's would probably be another 80 - 100 euro.
ejenner
12-09-07, 04:39 PM
the ones on the BMW are the road tyres rather than the track tyres. I can't remember which exact model they are though.
I was thinking of the 99, thought you had 888's on there.
ejenner
12-09-07, 05:45 PM
888's are on the 99. They're not really road tyres though. Wear out too quick for road use.
The MS box has arrived. It is "best on the net". It comes in a nice shiney box, with 3 leds. The wiring loom is neatly labelled. The part I'm really dreading is running the wires. I suppose its time to drop the kick panel. Maybe I should just rig it up first and see if its going to work, before tearing the dash apart.
Albert Trout
18-09-07, 10:46 AM
Haha. My kick panel hasn't been bolted on properly for 6 months. You can get all the wiring through the gap above the ECU Phil. It's a proper cramp inducing @rse-ache though. Also, if you have a Bentley, I'd recommend listing which wire colour goes with which sensor on the back page of that. I did it in a notebook. And lost the notebook.
This is the gap which goes out somewhere above the drivers door hinge yeah?
Also, I think you are implying hooking up some of the MS wiring loom onto the end of the lucas loom, where it plugs into the lucas ecu?
What did you use for switched 12v? The same feed that goes into the lucas?
ejenner
18-09-07, 10:58 AM
Get some tough tubing like in the picture and route through as many wires as you can fit. Obviously make sure there is enough room for all of the wires already comming out of the unit and run through as many spares as you can fit in the tube. 6 months down the line, once you've got it all working... :lol: you can pull out the surplus wires.
Label all the wires so you know which ones are which. Put the dashboard back together and that should be it - save for the odd time when things aren't working and you need to open it up again!
The tube in this picture is small diameter. You would need something a bit bigger for ECU install. This one was for car alarm.
http://www.red-green.co.uk/web/photos/gallery/vert/images/full/alarm_install_001.jpg
Albert Trout
18-09-07, 11:01 AM
Nah, I've not touched the Lucas loom. The wiring is totally seperate as I didn't want to risk mucking up the Lucas ECU. There's a big hole, which I wasn't aware off until I started looking, above and to the left of the ECU coming out by the power steering reservoir. You'll get it all through there.
12 volt souce, I'm using an old feed to an amplifier that the previous owner had in and which I binned. Not much use for you though. Again, I was wary of usin the 12v feed to the Lucas in case I mucked it up. Daniel might have some ideas but I'd have thought the best bet would be tapping into the main relay which right by that big hole.
ejenner
18-09-07, 11:02 AM
You can wire off the ignition switch. Get the volt meter and probe around so you know what the different connectors do. There's even a pin on the ignition switch which gives voltage just by putting the key into the slot. Not used by default.
Albert Trout
18-09-07, 11:04 AM
You can wire off the ignition switch. Get the volt meter and probe around so you know what the different connectors do. There's even a pin on the ignition switch which gives voltage just by putting the key into the slot. Not used by default.
Aye, there's 12v sources aplenty. Just make sure they hold a voltage during cranking.
Funnily enough, the PO had an amp in my car as well. Theres a fair few non-standard looking wires going through that same hole. So theres a good chance one of them has switched 12v. Emmett, that looks like a plan. Cheers for the help lads.
Saab-Daniel
18-09-07, 12:09 PM
Since my rear fog-lights are disconnected, I use the spare fuse in the fusebox for my 12v signal. Going to do something different soon though, as I'm not happy with it at the moment.
I will use a main relay to switch power on for both MS, injectors and lambda instead, which will tidy up my harness quite a bit.
Phil, is your harness already tubed like mine from www.diyautotune.com is?
If so, it's just a matter of getting on with it :)
Looking forward to hearing about your progress... I'm on Messenger if you ever need some advice/talk about it.
Daniel.
Was a bit disappointed with that, none of it was tubed, even at the connector. Not difficult to sort out though.
Albert Trout
18-09-07, 12:51 PM
Looking forward to hearing about your progress... I'm on Messenger if you ever need some advice/talk about it.
Daniel.
I think it's time for a MegaSquirt sticky Reverend. There's a ton of info hidden away in threads and been passed by PM. BTW, we may have another convert on the way. Bawheid's thinking about it for his T16 in a 99 conversion. Reckon I'll be last to get it running though :lol:
Yep. I'll add whatever I find during the process. I'll just add that my MS is setup with a shift light, knock input, boost control, and switchable ignition/fuel/boost maps. Best on the net.
Saab-Daniel
18-09-07, 03:04 PM
Uhh, smart-****, aren't we :cheesy:
Look forward to boost-control mate, it really works awesome!
Daniel
I wanted to alter the ms code, to add a co-efficient ( rpm divided by wheels speed ) to the boost map. Then could do per gear boost mapping.
Want to feed in the boost gradually in 1st and 2nd, so I can just mash the throttle and stop worrying about the gearbox. In 3rd gear, want some number like 80% of max boost as soon as its available, ramping up to max boost at redline. "Reverse boost taper". 4th and 5th - run as much boost as possible.
Albert Trout
18-09-07, 03:38 PM
You looked at traction control as well Phil. I quite fancy that, although to be honest it's beyond me. There must be a way of retarding boost/timing if the RPM gain rate increases above a certain level.
MS can do traction control, based on exactly that, rpm rate rise. Do a max accelleration run in 1st gear, look at the datalog, and use that as your figure. So then, if the rpm's ever rise quicker than that, it will retard ignition and/or cut sparks. Have a look around megatune and you'll see it.
Albert Trout
18-09-07, 03:47 PM
Never noticed that in Megatune. I'll have a look tonight!
Saab-Daniel
25-09-07, 11:02 PM
Phil, I replied your email... A little late, I know, but I did reply ;)
Daniel.
Matthew
25-09-07, 11:35 PM
Fit a Quaife ATB LSD. No traction issues then :cheesy: