Here's an awd c900! [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Here's an awd c900!


Saab-Daniel
2nd February 2006, 04:22 AM
Hi guys.
A guy here in Denmark has made an awd conversion, and thought you might wanted to see the pictures. He uses his 300bhp car to do rally-cross events in Denmark and especially sweden. He has made EVERYTHING himself, using a Peugeot 605 diffential to transfer power to the rear wheels.
Here's pictures:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4385/im0005606fh.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005606fh.jpg)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/6321/im0005438kq.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005438kq.jpg)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/2229/im0005420io.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005420io.jpg)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4792/im0005620ng.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005620ng.jpg)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7898/im0005663sm.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005663sm.jpg)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9377/im0005685ij.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005685ij.jpg)


A 4-speed kokill gearbox is used, along with a home-made driveshaft to connect to the rear differential. All pictures are either of gearbox, or the rear wheel-pair. And yes, it's a track-road you see on the rear wheel aswell. Believe it's to keep it secure when rally-crossing...
Enjoy,
Daniel.

Saab-Daniel
2nd February 2006, 04:23 AM
A few more:
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/4712/im0005696rf.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005696rf.jpg)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/7316/im0005510jb.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005510jb.jpg)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8541/im0005613gw.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005613gw.jpg)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/3923/im0005580hq.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005580hq.jpg)
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/5436/im0005593kv.th.jpg (http://img72.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005593kv.jpg)

Si
2nd February 2006, 05:34 AM
Will be interesting in hearing more about how he built it, that's a project and a half:cheesy:, one for me for the future i think.

You can convert the Vauxhall Calibre (sp??) 4 wheel drive system to fit a NG 900, i wonder if there is a similar mod for OG 900's????

ejenner
2nd February 2006, 05:48 AM
well I thought I'd seen it all. now I'm sure I must have done.

ejenner
2nd February 2006, 05:51 AM
i wonder if there is a similar mod for OG 900's????

Only if you can find a car with a similar chassis to borrow the drive-train from. Otherwise you'd have to make it all yourself like this other guy has.

Matthew
2nd February 2006, 06:47 AM
The best bit is that he's ditched the rear trailing arm in favour of double-wishbones.

Saab-Daniel
2nd February 2006, 06:50 AM
Yeah, he might aswell, since he was re-making everything back there anyway...

The 605 differential has the same gear-ratio making the converting possible.
Daniel.

ShadowWorks
2nd February 2006, 08:54 AM
Thats pretty amazing, its all independant suspension now and all wheel drive, do you know this guy personally Daniel?

He must work for a garage or have his own workshop, good on him;)

Eric van Spelde
2nd February 2006, 11:13 AM
The best bit is that he's ditched the rear trailing arm in favour of double-wishbones.

That's how I would do it- simply copy and paste the front suspension set up at the rear with fixed track rods. Worked for Audi in 1980 (only they had to make do with struts :D ).

Matthew
2nd February 2006, 11:25 AM
with fixed track rods
Fixed at one end, but adjustable at the other presumably? So that some degree of rear-end tracking can be achieved?

The MX6 guy in the link in this thread had great success bu adjusting the rear tracking:
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67514

Saab-Daniel
2nd February 2006, 11:59 AM
Do you know this guy personally Daniel?

He must work for a garage or have his own workshop

Unfortunatly, I didn't have the time to go with two mates of mine when they visited him, amongst others. He has a few machines to make stuff in his garage, and no, he dosn't have a shop, it's just him and his garage...
Had an 8v engine standing around too, producing around 160bhp N/A:
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2041/im0005527ca.th.jpg (http://img300.imageshack.us/my.php?image=im0005527ca.jpg)
The other guy they visited, is building his very own gearbox for his c900 using a bmw differential and buttons on the steeringwheel to change gears... I have pictures of this too, will post later in it's own thread.
Daniel.

Si
2nd February 2006, 12:14 PM
http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/2041/im0005527ca.jpg (http://imageshack.us/?x=my6&myref=http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=611541#post611541)

This looks like something i want to do, except 2 throttle bodies and a v large plenum instead of the air filters, :cheesy: sweet.

Vince T
2nd February 2006, 01:33 PM
Friend of mine built up an RWD, semi-mid engined c900 for ice racing. Did the same as this guy - cut out the floor in the hatch area and welded in the front shock towers and all that. No engine up front, just the rack, the sus and the fuel cell. He made a hole in the front of the gearbox for the shift rod and somehow made that work. Cool stuff!

What's this AWD car do for a centre diff, or how is the power split, if there is any split? Is the Pug diff a locker? How about the front? Has he broken anything in the drivetrain? I notice there's some reinforcement on case where the inner driver mounts, but only on one side.

900t
2nd February 2006, 08:12 PM
This sucks.

Just install another complete 16vT motor and gearbox and suspension in the back. THEN you have AWD and a LOT of power

Vince T
2nd February 2006, 09:45 PM
Heh, then spend some time figuring out how to synch up the gearboxes, plus finding a place to put a fuel tank... ;)

The manifold on that B201 is interesting. Any idea who made it? The only North American source I know of for such things is MSS, and I believe theirs are welded together, not cast.

At one point, I was seriously considering going that route with my rallycar, but then I realized that a) I would still have to find a way to play with ignition, and b) buying the manifold plus two DCOE 45 Webers would run me just about as much, if not more, than just setting it up with SDS. Now 'all' I do is swap my coil pack and ECU over from the SPG to the rally car when the latter needs to run...then spend 20 minutes reprogramming it because SDS doesn't store more than one map... :( Time to buy another ECU! Or go with another stand alone system!

Eric van Spelde
3rd February 2006, 02:25 AM
Fixed at one end, but adjustable at the other presumably? So that some degree of rear-end tracking can be achieved?



Well, adjustable on both sides presumably, but not connected to a steering rack or something else that moves :D.

912 fanatic
3rd February 2006, 07:35 PM
This is my uncles ice racer he built last year in 6 weeks its a compleat home build car even the suspension but it is a c900 16 valve turbo motor and 5 speed locked transmision in the rear of the car.http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f113/NYracefan/AMEC%20Ice%20Racing/1-29-060122.jpghttp://img.photobucket.com/albums/v452/blownb310/Ice%20racing/RaceCar075.jpg

Matthew
6th February 2006, 08:01 AM
Well, adjustable on both sides presumably, but not connected to a steering rack or something else that moves :D.
Four-wheel steering anyone? ;)

aeropilot
6th February 2006, 08:13 AM
A guy here in Denmark has made an awd conversion, and thought you might wanted to see the pictures. He uses his 300bhp car to do rally-cross events in Denmark and especially sweden.

I remember about 15+ years ago, Anders Nordstadt built an awd C900 for use in the European Rallycross Championship. I remember seeing it when he raced it at the Brand Hatch Rallycross GP one year. I seem to recall he had assistance from the Saab factory in building it.....it may be in the Saab museum now...??

ludichris001
7th January 2008, 06:59 AM
i found this on the net a while ago, thought i might as well share it...

ejenner
7th January 2008, 07:58 AM
Seen one like that before... but why do American's always have to put a v8 in everything? The B202 turbo eaisly rivals v8 power. Of course if you tune a v8 extensivly or if you turbocharge a v8 then you can out-do a 4-pot but that costs lots of money and you can get more than enough power from a B202 so why would you bother?

http://www.red-green.co.uk/web/photos/saabpics/saabstang.jpg

ludichris001
7th January 2008, 08:10 AM
Seen one like that before... but why do American's always have to put a v8 in everything? The B202 turbo eaisly rivals v8 power. Of course if you tune a v8 extensivly or if you turbocharge a v8 then you can out-do a 4-pot but that costs lots of money and you can get more than enough power from a B202 so why would you bother?



i really dont know why anyone would bother but you gotta admit, it looks pretty cool :D

ejenner
7th January 2008, 08:51 AM
I don't really appriciate it when it's taken so far that there is nothing left of the original car except for the shell! It's interesting but not something I'd aspire to and I wouldn't buy it unless someone was giving it away for cheap.

unkleG'sif
7th January 2008, 09:24 AM
big, fat, high profile tires on the rear always completely ruin the shape and contours of the c900 if you ask me, and cutting a large chunk out of the bonnet just makes the thing look daft (and destroys the low profile of the bonnet line)

G

DanF.
7th January 2008, 10:02 AM
Seen one like that before... but why do American's always have to put a v8 in everything? The B202 turbo eaisly rivals v8 power. Of course if you tune a v8 extensivly or if you turbocharge a v8 then you can out-do a 4-pot but that costs lots of money and you can get more than enough power from a B202 so why would you bother?

http://www.red-green.co.uk/web/photos/saabpics/saabstang.jpg


eh, me thinks not.

there are enough v8's in this country, along with super-cheap tuning parts to make a $50 used engine into a monster. v8's are so plentiful around here that people use them for boat anchors. remember that for about 30 years, that was just about the only engine made in the USA.

also, the top car, with the cut hood, looks more like a track car. if you're gonna mod a car, you may as well use the better rwd traction with a engine/tranny better suited to hard launches.

perception being what it is, in the USA it just looks cool to see a smaller European car with big rear tires with a lumpy idle.

no turbo lag to deal with either ;)

TheRedBaron
7th January 2008, 10:26 AM
so why would you bother?Have you ever driven an american muscle car with a loud, powerful V8? If not, I can see why you wouldn't understand :D As fun as turbo whine is, V8s are just the coolest :cheesy:

There's also (as Dan said) a huge aftermarket for V8s here, reading the summit racing catalogue makes me quite jealous. If you have a common small block, like say a Chevy 350, there's soooo many options - blowers, cams, pistons, manifolds, etc. there's a ton of companies making all of these engine parts ready to drop into your engine. Also, you can fairly easily and relatively cheapliy build a 400 whp car for probably a similar price as it would be to make a c900 the same (huge turbo, supporting mods).

unkleG'sif
7th January 2008, 11:07 AM
nope, i understand what you guys say about the availability of V8's in the states and how cheap they are, but i stand by what i said about big, fat tyres on the rear.... it makes the whole car look daft

on purpose built rwd cars etc, YEs they look cool, but on a c900... NOPE!!!


oh, and by the way.... we too have many cars with V8's, and beleive it or not, most of us have actually heard a lumpy idle V8 in the flesh

G

TheRedBaron
7th January 2008, 11:12 AM
nope, i understand what you guys say about the availability of V8's in the states and how cheap they are, but i stand by what i said about big, fat tyres on the rear.... it makes the whole car look daftYeah I agree totally.

Apparently this car didn't even do that well on the dyno, either, I heard about it on another site.

Saab 16s Stubby
7th January 2008, 11:20 AM
Not the 1st time a Swede has been under the knife!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2196921

IronJoe
7th January 2008, 12:04 PM
Yeah I agree totally.

Apparently this car didn't even do that well on the dyno, either, I heard about it on another site.

Do tell...

TheRedBaron
7th January 2008, 12:23 PM
Do tell...http://genuinesaab.com/gallery/albums/soc05burnsside42/IMG_0520.jpg

Apparently at a dino day at a SOC or something it made less power than a few true c900s. That's all I got for ya.

GearHead
7th January 2008, 02:31 PM
so what about a 300-350 hp B202 mated to a good rwd gearbox.and then have tires that are just slighly larger than the front...just make sure that the back end isnt higher than when you started...

ejenner
7th January 2008, 03:14 PM
It's not that I don't like V8's... it's just the total foolishness involved in putting the body of another
car onto the top of a V8 engine and transmission system. It stops being a Saab and becomes
a generic assembly of parts. I appriciate the skills required to put something like that together.
But I think it's a silly thing to do. V8's are most cool... but you need it in a storming Mustang -
one of the older ones though... or a Corvette Stingray... or a Dodge Charger... just not
under a Saab 900 bodyshell. It's the process of kindof hollowing out a shell and dropping it onto
a V8 engine and transmission.

Here is what I wouldn't mind doing!

Basically, a 900 engine and transmission mounted behind the front seats. Because the drive
from the 900 transmission exits at the back of the box an engine installed like this makes it a
mid-engined car!

It is guessed a transmission with wheels that don't do steering might hold up better than normal so
torque could afford to be a bit more than normal without such a risk to the box.


http://www.red-green.co.uk/web/photos/saabpics/mid-engine_900.jpg

DanF.
7th January 2008, 05:32 PM
yes............

TheRedBaron
7th January 2008, 09:54 PM
That's awesome, but I bet it gets hot in there :lol:

tweek
8th January 2008, 01:19 AM
It's not that I don't like V8's... it's just the total foolishness involved in putting the body of another
car onto the top of a V8 engine and transmission system. It stops being a Saab and becomes
a generic assembly of parts. I appriciate the skills required to put something like that together.
But I think it's a silly thing to do. V8's are most cool... but you need it in a storming Mustang -
one of the older ones though... or a Corvette Stingray... or a Dodge Charger... just not
under a Saab 900 bodyshell. It's the process of kindof hollowing out a shell and dropping it onto
a V8 engine and transmission.

Here is what I wouldn't mind doing!

Basically, a 900 engine and transmission mounted behind the front seats. Because the drive
from the 900 transmission exits at the back of the box an engine installed like this makes it a
mid-engined car!

It is guessed a transmission with wheels that don't do steering might hold up better than normal so
torque could afford to be a bit more than normal without such a risk to the box.


http://www.red-green.co.uk/web/photos/saabpics/mid-engine_900.jpg

Now that I like. :cheesy:

ShadowWorks
8th January 2008, 04:15 AM
I love the B202 and lets gets this clear not all V8 engines are equal, some are big lazy turds and some a silky, throaty monsters, I love those, if I ever get a chance to buy a performance V8 car/ engine I will even if its just a table in my lounge, that can be my party piece, a V8 with no headers;)

Anyway Saab made a V8 block so whats wrong with putting one in a c900, the biggest reason to dirch the B202 is the gearbox and we know it.

93SAABJADE
8th January 2008, 06:27 PM
Those c900s are just a lil' bit over done...haha. They just don't look right with drag radials and the "muscle car" blown hood. I can't picture a 900 going down the road sounding like an old chevy big block.

TheRedBaron
8th January 2008, 09:13 PM
Those c900s are just a lil' bit over done...haha. They just don't look right with drag radials and the "muscle car" blown hood. I can't picture a 900 going down the road sounding like an old chevy big block.That's the beauty of it, it doesn't quite fit :D

c900
9th January 2008, 02:09 AM
big, fat, high profile tires on the rear always completely ruin the shape and contours of the c900 if you ask me, and cutting a large chunk out of the bonnet just makes the thing look daft (and destroys the low profile of the bonnet line)

G

Yep, the Enduro (http://www.classicsaab.net/enduro.html) is the only 'modded' type of c900 which actually looks good with very wide (7 or 8" I think) wheels/tyres. The 12 Enduro's had special 'chunky' wheel arch/fenders made up. It's quite illegal to have wheels/tyres that 'breach' the 'profile' of the car body at the top of the wheel here in Australia. I am not sure of the exact ADR (Australian Design Rule) that says it, but I know that most auto insurance companies here will instantly refuse insurance if they find out significantly wider than stock wheels/tyres have been fitted without making other mods to ensure the car meets the design rules.

Craig.

TooMany2cvs
9th January 2008, 04:30 AM
He has made EVERYTHING himself, using a Peugeot 605 diffential to transfer power to the rear wheels.

Call me picky, but it won't be a 605 diff - the 605 was transverse FWD. 505, probably.

unkleG'sif
9th January 2008, 04:48 AM
i am fully aware of the enduro you guys got in australia..... however that was, despite its massive rear tyres, still a front wheel drive

this, and the fact it it was still a 4banger, makes it still ALL SAAB

G