what do you use to quiet noisy lifters? [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: what do you use to quiet noisy lifters?


M@'saab
16th January 2006, 05:13 AM
I have a slight intermitent tic comming from the engine compartement as far as i can see it's valve related (lifters) as it follow's engine speed, haven't been able to resolve it. I was told i should probably put in a heavier oil than 10w30 but haven't had the time. I order to quiet the lifters, what would be the best product. Does the Lucas oil stabiliser work, I know Barhdal has a super heavy duty synthetic additive.? What do people use? If anyone has some insight? thanks

saabski
16th January 2006, 05:29 AM
I've never had to do it on a SAAB but I've had great success on Vauxhalls, Fords and Rovers by using a good engine flush like Forte, Wynns etc. Then refilling with quality oil. This has worked every time where it has been a sticking lifter.

If it's the cam or lifter face that is worn - then it's a replacement job.

M@'saab
16th January 2006, 01:23 PM
you"ve never had any problems with seals or anything related after using an engine flush?

JMarkert
16th January 2006, 01:27 PM
You might try using marvel mystery oil, both in your gas and in your oil followed by an oil change and upgrade to summer weight (40) oil in a few weeks as soon as the punishingly cold weather is mostly behind you. MMO is pretty gentle, I think, and will help clear up the oil passages.

saabski
16th January 2006, 01:27 PM
you"ve never had any problems with seals or anything related after using an engine flush?

No , never.

M@'saab
16th January 2006, 03:28 PM
thats good to know, i guess i will try it. Can't find MMO in canada, anything thats about the same?

adg44
16th January 2006, 03:31 PM
You might try using marvel mystery oil, both in your gas and in your oil followed by an oil change and upgrade to summer weight (40) oil in a few weeks as soon as the punishingly cold weather is mostly behind you. MMO is pretty gentle, I think, and will help clear up the oil passages.

It's been said that MMO is most likely nothing other than ATF.

900SEVictoria
17th January 2006, 01:51 AM
Once upon a time my Chev V6 started ticking like crazy. It was really loud. The mileage was very high so I just thot it was time to retire.

My mechanic friend said to just put in ATF and see what happens. Like magic, it stopped after a few minutes. Oil change, and the car ran another 60,000....never did have that problem again.

Don't know how good this advice is.....it worked once...

rsvp9146
17th January 2006, 01:58 AM
I dont know about a Saab, but I always used to run a can of Bardahls in Chevy small blocks to quiet them down.

rsvp9146
17th January 2006, 02:00 AM
Once upon a time my Chev V6 started ticking like crazy. It was really loud. The mileage was very high so I just thot it was time to retire.

My mechanic friend said to just put in ATF and see what happens. Like magic, it stopped after a few minutes. Oil change, and the car ran another 60,000....never did have that problem again.

Don't know how good this advice is.....it worked once...

Did the same thing once on a Chev 2.8L V6 engine. Worked well. I got over 450,000 miles out of that engine before the camshaft lobes wore flat. Only things ever changed were the water pump and alternator (twice)

First car i ever owned, maintained it religiously

M@'saab
17th January 2006, 02:28 PM
so you just put ATF in and use it like an oil flush or do you put it in after an oil change and run 5000km? sorry i have never heard of ATF until a few days ago.

I'm a bit concerned about frying engine seals with a engine flush using a corrosive engine flush product, i have 130 000 miles on the car so i whan't to be careful.

M@'saab
17th January 2006, 02:30 PM
I dont know about a Saab, but I always used to run a can of Bardahls in Chevy small blocks to quiet them down.

I've heard that it work too, i haven't had a chance to change my oil

M@'saab
17th January 2006, 02:32 PM
Once upon a time my Chev V6 started ticking like crazy. It was really loud. The mileage was very high so I just thot it was time to retire.

My mechanic friend said to just put in ATF and see what happens. Like magic, it stopped after a few minutes. Oil change, and the car ran another 60,000....never did have that problem again.

Don't know how good this advice is.....it worked once...

So you just put it in for 5-10 mins and changed the oil or did you run the engine with it in the engine?

saabski
17th January 2006, 04:23 PM
I recon that you are safe just using an ordinary engine flush from a reputable company. I've never had a problem with seals or anything else and I don't know anyone who has.
Just use it according to the instructions and there you go nice clean internals!

A very god independant garage near here ( he builds, tunes and maintains race cars as well)(I bumped into Paul Weller one day who's car was in for work!) uses flush as a matter of course on cars they don't know.
Another indy guy swears by adding a 1/2 pint of diesel instead! He's been going for 40 years.

bkrell
17th January 2006, 04:32 PM
It's been said that MMO is most likely nothing other than ATF.

MMO is a mixture of dichlorobenzene (an aromatic hydrocarbon), stoddard solvent (mineral spirits) and naptha. Though it does have an aromatic, I can tell you it must not have very much. I did a little comparison between MMO and Chemtool and the Chemtool dissolved stuff almost immediately while it just sat there in MMO. I'm sure it has SOME merit, but....

bkrell
17th January 2006, 04:41 PM
There are a number of flushes out there, true. However, many are just not very effective. ATF is a big no no. Flushes w/ aromatics (benzene compounds) tend to work best from my experience. See my oil filter thread for what I got after an engine flush. http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63294
Just remember, this is in a 9-5 and if you have a 900, you're MUCH less likely to have issues like this.

If you have taken care of your car, you shouldn't really need a flush. I know things do come up, but... You may also consider a good synth oil like redline which has a good detergency. Dual rated Diesel oils also have good additive packages that can help clean your engine.

Of course, as you will read in my thread, if you choose to follow the link, there is auto rx. Many people think it's a gift from on high and will ban you from websites for not following the gospel. :roll: It has shown a little improvement for me, just not much so far (and it's $23 per bottle).

earthworm
17th January 2006, 06:22 PM
From what I have seen, NOTHING will "melt" or react with or remove baked on solid hard sludge on the oil screen.

But I think a good oil will prevent the sludge if the oil temperatures are not too high and the OCI is within reason and the oil is not of the type that may cause sludge in the first place...

With a turbo car such as VW or Saab, the OCI should be 2 to 5 K miles depending on the use of the turbocharger and the amount of cold driving.

Brian, I cannot believe that you were banned from BITOG - could it be that these people cannot abide with the truth ???
Auto Rx MAY work well as a preventative in sludge prone cars driven in harsh conditions..

bkrell
17th January 2006, 06:31 PM
Yeah, I know. I can't believe it either, earthy. PMI learned that sludge doesn't just melt away from the oil pickup screen, if I recall. :confused:

G96nt
17th January 2006, 06:47 PM
best thing you can Do for lifter-tick with HLA's is use an oil-filter with a check-valve.

I'm willing to assume the factory filter does, I know the purolator "pure one" does, and mobil1/K&N do, too.

this keeps oil from draining-back through the galleys, and keeps those galleys from filling with air.
This Reduces start-up lifter tick.

Alternatively, using "engine Restore" (small silver w/ blue+red label) a couple-hundred miles before an oil-change will do a good job "cleaning" the inside of your motor without grossly-harsh chemicals.

I have used the gunk motor flush before, but didn't REALLY feel good about it while I did.

bkrell
18th January 2006, 02:22 AM
Restore is not a flush and is supposed to be added at the oil change, not afterward. It is basically a solution of small bits of lead and other metals, if I remember correctly, that fills small scratches and groves in your cylinder walls for better compression. It makes no promises to clean.

adeptid
18th January 2006, 01:25 PM
I sincerely wish that everyone would take their collective heads out of "BITOG's" **** long enough to realize the the site, in it's entirety, is merely a corporate ploy to propogate the use of their so-called "professional" opinion of what is the best oil to use, i.e., it's just a big advertising campaign people put on by people who are'nt exactly who one should be looking to as "people 'in the know'".
I'll post back with a link to an actual "professional" who is "in the know" that will be evident to all once I've done some digging through my notes and files here.
I will also go on to say that I am disappointed with those here who should have known better based merely on their geographical location, not to mention professed heritage.:nono;

rsvp9146
18th January 2006, 03:24 PM
Sea Foam has worked well for me in the past, you draw it in through the vacuum system usually a valve cover or brake booster hose, run it for a minute or two, shut it off and let it sit for 1/2 hour. Start it up, CLOUDS of white smoke, burn it all out. Worked rather well, visual inspections have shown me it does incredibly well decarbonizing piston tops.

Anybody know about that Bilstein engien flush system? THeres a few places that do it here. I saw a demonstration on it a while back, and as impressed.

bkrell
18th January 2006, 03:32 PM
See this thread: http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=601301#post601301

I've got to ask you to please keep the conversation civil.:nono;




I sincerely wish that everyone would take their collective heads out of "BITOG's" **** long enough to realize the the site, in it's entirety, is merely a corporate ploy to propogate the use of their so-called "professional" opinion of what is the best oil to use, i.e., it's just a big advertising campaign people put on by people who are'nt exactly who one should be looking to as "people 'in the know'".
I'll post back with a link to an actual "professional" who is "in the know" that will be evident to all once I've done some digging through my notes and files here.
I will also go on to say that I am disappointed with those here who should have known better based merely on their geographical location, not to mention professed heritage.:nono;

adeptid
18th January 2006, 04:24 PM
I apologize again and likewise direct you to my response to the self same thread you've referenced.:)

adeptid
26th January 2006, 06:21 PM
Well, as promised, here's the link that I've referenced previously as a source other than "BITOG" for information about "oil" in general, complete with accompanying links to sourced info, and a conclusory closing summary of what the best course of action would be to follow..., even made me do some rethinking of previously prescribed practices/beliefs:
http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm.

Enjoy one and all.

bkrell
26th January 2006, 10:08 PM
Adeptid! :o I had this link FROM Bitog!:cheesy: It IS great info.;) I always wondered who the author is, though.

adeptid
26th January 2006, 11:05 PM
bkrell..., to get to the root of the matter one need only research the root of the link, &/or: http://www.nordicgroup.us

Digging around through there you'll find that it's author is this guy named "Steven M. Scharf, PhD., MD, and perhaps a few more letters of the alphabet, who knows.
I've found that "NordicGroup's" report on oil referenced "BITOG" as a cross reference, FWIW.
I'm just happier to have gotten my info. from someone other than a self-proclaimed "authority" on the matter, but rather someone who was standing on the outside looking in and outlining what they found from having a look at the matter from all angles..., both the pros and the cons, and then presenting it for all to reach their own conclusion. A perspective that I found to be rather unbiased and insightful..., again, FWIW.:)

JMarkert
26th January 2006, 11:30 PM
Nice site, adeptid! Although I suspect I fall into the "recreational oil changer" category. I've got 4K on my oil right now and am itching to change it. Just one K more to go....

Saabohème
26th January 2006, 11:39 PM
bkrell:
Restore is not a flush and is supposed to be added at the oil change, not afterward. It is basically a solution of small bits of lead and other metals, if I remember correctly, that fills small scratches and groves in your cylinder walls for better compression. It makes no promises to clean.
Yikes. I have not heard of this stuff, but . . . what do I want to circulate tiny particles of metal (Copper, silver and lead) through my engine for? If it were molybdenum disulfide which has been proven to be able to bond to metal surfaces, has admirable lubrication properties of its own, and which has a higher melting point than iron, then I might see the point (although I do not believe it has been conclusively demonstrated that suspending the stuff in motor oil and circulating it through the engine will bond it like traditional engine moly-ing does). Which makes me even more suspicious of copper, silver and lead being able to bond to worn metal surfaces while suspended in motor oil. I looked it up and read the hype and if these satisfied customers were serious, I wonder what follow-up interviews might yield? I think I would sooner skip motor oil altogether and just pour six hundred tubes of lock graphite into the crankcase. Speaking of which, anyone remember Arco Graphite from back in the late seventies - early eighties?
Here is one company (http://www.interautopartssd.com/) purporting to suspend moly in syn oil (they make vollsynthese too). And there are additives like Mr. Moly (there is a confidence inspiring name).

JMarkert
26th January 2006, 11:48 PM
"The Black Oil" , yeah, I remember, it looked dirty from day 1. I never understood how come the graphite didn't just get filtered out and/or precipitate out inside the motor. I guess it doesn't really prove anything, but if it were any good I imagine they'd still be selling it.

ricot83
27th January 2006, 12:18 AM
hey guys dont forget its not only mileage that kills oil, but time.. my oil was freshly changed like aweek before the car was parked back in aug-sep.... i started the car up like a month ago and then check the oil after, the damned oil was black... like really really black.

ricot83
27th January 2006, 12:20 AM
saabohome i use that restore stuff in my jeep a couple times and it works, but for the saab i think i would use lucas before anything else, although i dont currently use anything except mobil 1

Saabohème
27th January 2006, 12:31 AM
ricot83: saabohome i use that restore stuff in my jeep a couple times and it works, but for the saab i think i would use lucas before anything else, although i dont currently use anything except mobil 1
Just a little leery, is all. No experience with it personally, so I can make no claim on it. And hey, good to hear from you. Where you been lately, I have not seen you on here in awahile?

bkrell
27th January 2006, 01:21 AM
With regard to Restore, yeah, it's a little weird. I remember someone on BITOG did a UOA and they had high lead for a sample or two but then it went away. Remember, Restore tells you to use it every 5k miles. With regard to graphite, yeah, stay away. Some folks still use it, but....and it's also the same w/ Moly, it depends on the moly compound used. There are still several motor oils w/ moly that everyone seems to love, namely Havoline. Anecdotally, I have heard that Honda's factory fill is an oil specifically blended for them which is super high in moly and from that everyone has decided Hondas like high moly oils.:roll:


Adeptid, I don't mean to belittle your link. It is very good information distilled into one page of information. I only don't consider it life-changing or earth-shattering as I have come to all those conclusions and then some as the result of reading a variety of resources on the subject-particularly since buying my 9-5.

I believe you misinterpret BITOG though and what it is about. BITOG is not one person claiming to be an authority. As a matter of fact "Bob" doesn't even own or run the site anymore-he's had a stroke. I don't know if you've visited the forums there but in general it's just a group of enthusiasts who do UOAs and talk oil from an enthusiast perspective. You have to take it for what it is though and know what is reliable info and what isn't. If it weren't for the sactioned Lube Control and AutoRx hawking, :roll: :roll: it would be a great site.
Anyway, I, too, Jeff, think I fall into the recreational oil changer category. But oh well....it's cheap insurance!:lol: (I do-atleast recycle my oil;) )

adeptid
27th January 2006, 10:07 AM
JMarkert, bkrell and all other fellow "enthusiasts", there's absolutely nothing wrong with falling into the "recreational oil changer" category..., as a matter of fact, it's actually the best policy to practice by all reports, and I'll bet that your car will appreciate you for it!:D

bkrell, no "belittling, life-changing, or earth-shattering" implied, intended, insinuated or taken. I'm just here trying to provide information to those who are interested in having it or simply want more than the common fare..., that's all.:)

ricot83
27th January 2006, 04:57 PM
been around here and there, and again my experience with restore is not that extensive, just a little use on the jeep , i have also used marvel mystery oil as a cleaner too.