Can't Lose to a Volkswagen

[New To The Game]

Hey everyone,

I just purchased a 2002 93 SE. Its my first Saab and also my first turbo engine. Its feels pretty punchy stock and I love the car.

I've got a buddy just hankerin' to beat me out with his VW GTI he will be purchasing shortly. I guess the stock 0-60 times say the VW is faster.

I'm wondering if you can shoot me some ideas on the cheapest but best improvements I can make to not be beaten. Like I said, I just bought the car and previously had no car payments to worry about, now I'm back to payments - so I'm looking for economical ways of doing this as well as ways not to hurt and shorten the longevity of the vehicle.

I've read up and down about the MBC+A which seem relatively inexpensive.

What's your spin?

[A12]

Depends on how much you want to spend-cheapest route would be mbc+a,saab sport exhaust,maybe downpipe,and intercooler.Run 93 octane gas with this setup and good plugs (NGK's).

[Marks900SE]

First off a few things you will need to know...

You have a 2002 9-3 SE as you know which includes...

Larger turbo (TDO4-15t) than the base model
You have the Cross-Flow intercooler stock (aka viggen intercooler)
And you have T7 engine management.

With that said the MBC+A will not work on the T7 due to is comprehensive nature. Get the DP and cat back and an intake, that will drop the Spool up of the turbo by alot.

Is the GTI the vr6 or the 1.8t, either of those you will be hard pressed to win off the line (the vr6 having the same power as you without spool up, the 1.8t having less power but vertually no spool up). If you lose get him to race you in 2nd gear, that race will hands down be yours.

[bkrell]

This racing will of course be on a track?;) Not on the streets which we can't discuss here...;):cheesy: The 1.8T spool up is that quick? Must be pretty breathless in the high rpms, right? I was on a ....track... one time and I really had to work to keep ahead of one. I at least have a new IC and dp now....

[New To The Game]

My buddy is looking to get a VW 1.8t. I appreciate the advice. I've browsed around on MP Performance at some items. Anyone have any other sites?

[Automaggot]

Ask him to race from a roll.

If his car is stock, spend a few bucks and get a manual boost controller. You should be able to smoke him.

[bkrell]

He's T7 so it probably wouldn't work.

[Automaggot]

Oh snap. You're right.

[bkrell]

LOL, someone had already said it. I wouldn't have thought about it...:cheesy:

[BLÜE 9-3se]

Check here: http://www.kyankton.net/links.htm for a good list of links to parts and all kinds of performance oriented stuff.

[New To The Game]

What kind of performance would I see if adding some down pipes? I saw on MP Perfomance http://www.mpperformance.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=1_22&products_id=40 they had a 3" downpipe with catalytic converter (mine is starting to stink like eggs and I'm not sure if Saab will cover under warranty) for $395. They say potential 18 hp gained and 30 lbs of torque. Is that realistic?

[Marks900SE]

The spool is the only good thing a 1.8t has, its a tiny turbo that gets put to shame by the t25;).

[mike saunders]

Those HP gains are very realistic. The bigger downpipe reduces the level of backpressure in the exhaust system, which then allows the turbo to spin more efficiently. A new DP is one of the first serious power mods (along with an MBC-+A) because it sets up a foundation for future changes.

If your SE is the High Output Turbo model, you have the same turbo as the Viggen. A GTI will get used to seeing your taillights.

[stevehayes01]

Ok I have a 2000 9-3 SE HOT Automatic and I have never been beat by a stock GTI 1.8T (on a track of course :lol: ). You will find that the GTI will run out of steam alot quicker than your car will. The only thing I can say at all about any saab is that you need to be careful off the line who you challenge but from a 20Mph roll well you will find that you can take lots of cars that normally would be out of your league from a dead roll. If you want to see how quick your car is or is'nt go out and find a WRX (non STI) that is not too modded and give it a go! You will find that if you go from a roll you will be able to hang or beat the WRX (which can definatley beat a GTI).

[New To The Game]

So you're telling me that if I am to do a little drag on a track it would be a safer bet at winning if I were to say race him at a distance where top speed could get to 100 mph vs. 80 mph? When does the GTI run out of steam.
Has anyone checked those downpipes out at MP? Do they look to be quality?

[cpenning623]

I've dealt with GTI's....the reason you should get him from a roll is cuase saabs are just slugs off the line, but if you are starting from a roll, then your already out of first, and everythings moving already.


I dont have a MP downpipe, a few people have had little probs, but it seems like they take care of the customers, because they sent a rear sway bar? or something to make up for it, suposedly it hit the transmission, but they are considereably cheaper, so I would say its worth it.

How do i contrapt an 02 simulator?

[bkrell]

Throttle response and boost threshold are key. From 3k rpms on up I haven't been around much that wanted to stay up. As for the MP downpipe, I believe there are at least 2 active threads on the first page of this board dealing w/ it. Yes, they will def. shorten spool up a bit. They are also, as Mike said, a good foundation piece to invest in if you are ever going to get more serious w/ say software and bigger injectors etc. I got mine w/ cat half price as a return that they put up on eBay. I hear that quality is getting better as of late. As someone mentioned, they will take care of you if there is a problem. You should probably look into the saab sport exhaust as well, or at least replacing the stock mufflers w/ less restrictive units. Of course genuinesaab.com also sells all this stuff.


cpen, are u asking an o2 sim question? Should start a new thread on that so more will see it.

[stevehayes01]

So you're telling me that if I am to do a little drag on a track it would be a safer bet at winning if I were to say race him at a distance where top speed could get to 100 mph vs. 80 mph? When does the GTI run out of steam.
Has anyone checked those downpipes out at MP? Do they look to be quality?

I have an MP Intercooler, 3"Dp with Cat and the enhanced rear sway bar on my car and it is a great setup! You will notice the spool up will be insanely quicker and much better throttle response.

As for the GTI and its steam they will lose it around 85-90mph and once over 100 they really start to show the weakness of the setup. The GTI and all 1.8T motors were setup with aflat torque and power curve to allow for spirited driving wthout going crazy and sacrificing your fuel economy and such rather than being built to be freeway flyers. Even if you get on it from a dead stop you may be behind to start but keep your foot in it and you will be ahead soon enough (with a GTI).

You will find like I did that on the freeway (I mean race track) you will blow away cars like GT Mustangs and hang with cars like 350Z's. I have even been able to hang with an older Boxster before.

[New To The Game]

So how loud is the new whir sound of a Turbo with the 3" DP? Is it cool sounding or somewhat obnoxious? Is this a better place to start than with a Stage 1 chip? You'll also have to forgive me for asking but as indicated I am "new to the game", how do the "stages" work?

[cpenning623]

you wanna do hardware beofre software, that way, you can get a higher staged ecu , that can take advantage of all the hardware.

[bkrell]

It all depends on the tuner. But, generally, stage 1 is little to no added hardware except a K&N type filter. Stage 2 is typically minimal stuff like saab sport exhaust, and maybe intercooler (which I guess you already have) and stage 3 is usually the aformentioned w/ a downpipe as well. I may have that a little screwy but you need all that mentioned for a stage 3 tune. Thing is, when you see places like genuine saab or MP advertise the stages, typically the price increase is just the hardware and the price for the new ecu is about the same. So, you could spread out the purchase of the hardware then go buy the ecu. Just let the tuner know what hardware you have so that they can make sure to match the ecu tune as close as possible.

As for the noise, you'll hear an increase when you switch to a K&N, either cone or panel type (if you do the homemade 3 inch filter mod) and then you'll hear another increase (I've recently learned) with the dp. It's not embarassingly loud or anything. I hear many people find the most satisfying increase w/ the sport exhaust (not in turbo whine but just good exhaust note). Mine already came w/ a custom Magnaflow setup so I don't know what it sounded like stock.