Not a saab [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

earthworm

19-05-05, 03:01 PM

can anyone say GM. Some one should make this a hyperlink to a GM site not have this form on a Saab site. This is a joke to the Saab name. Thats what I think is anyone with me.

Stephen Denton
C900 driver
As is the so-called 9-2
Or, as another man said :If I wanted a Chevy, I'd buy a Chevrolet.

But that oversized thing the 9-7 is based on is a "GM"...and Saab, in a way, sadly, is just another vassal of GM, and if GM continues to be sloppy,may probably go the way of Oakland, LaSalle, Oldsmobile....

This situation reminds me of the beautiful old office buildings facing the wrecking ball.
We wonder why - these old buildings are strong, sound, beautiful, built of high quality materials.. Yet many are not used , face oblivion.
Why ??
In truth of fact, these gorgeous old timers are a POS, very inefficient, very costly to maintain, no HVAC, no closets, no PS, PB, cupholders, no concert hall stereo/CD, No air bags.....
Much like my old 99 of 1973, or even the '79 900..
These decisions must be made carefully, respect for the "elderly" is paramount..

Returning to Saab, and speaking of respect, a serious mistake was made by returning to the cable clutch in 1994 with the "new" GM/Opel 900..In 1965, Saab felt that the hydraulic system was better(IMO, it was not, far too prone to leak), but it was improved and ,IMO, worked well in the c900...

earthworm

19-05-05, 03:09 PM

yep i agree: i saw the commercial last night; they say that all other SUVs are invisible or something like that, and the SAAB 9-7x makes you stand out... it looks like a BMW X5 with a SAAB grill, i think that SAAB sold out with this one!

There is, and a shame it is, NO SAAB anymore to buy and sell, much as there is no Chevrolet,Pontiac,Buick,etc,etc - these are but names or brands -to serve the "almighty" GM..
NOT a good way of doing business...
And we need another huge gas gulping SUV as we need another hole in the head.
Ever hear of the Volkswagen "One Liter" ??

Lodro

19-05-05, 05:55 PM

Well, this is an original thread...<ducking/>

inertia93

19-05-05, 06:32 PM

I think saab would have been better served by a differnt parent- look at Volvo, still distinctive, no "quick fix" products ala the 9-7. The 9-2 isn't so bad, at least the same general market for subie and saab, I'm not so sure the average Saab buyer looks at Chevy suv's before buying. I guess that's GM's point, to bring in new people, but they could have done better than a poorly rated 5 year old platform to launch it. What happened to the B9 spin off?

ragtopcav

19-05-05, 06:35 PM

Well, this is an original thread...<ducking/>
A very well trodden path indeed, I wish these guys with there rehashed Triumphs could see there's nothing new for saab in how the 9-7 came about.

Sadly the one thing that is absent from such threads is constructive critism.

earthworm

19-05-05, 09:49 PM

A very well trodden path indeed, I wish these guys with there rehashed Triumphs could see there's nothing new for Saab in how the 9-7 came about.

Sadly the one thing that is absent from such threads is constructive criticism.
Rehashed Triumph - my foot !
Yes, of course, the Saab 99 used a Triumph engine, but this error, I believe, was rectified a few years later. And a British Leyland - Saab union back in the 70s - interesting..
I owned a '69, then a '73 ,on and on; did any English car of that time use the same body ??

Brewman013

19-05-05, 11:14 PM

HAS ANY OF DRIVEN THE 9.7X? THE VEHICLE ISN'T TO REPLACE YOUR 9.3'S OR 9.5'S. IT'S AN ADDITIONAL VEHICLE FOR YOUR SAAB DEALER TO SELL. THE MORE VEHICLES YOUR DEALER SELLS, THE MORE MONEY SAAB/GM WILL HAVE TO PRODUCE THE SO CALLED SAABS THAT YOU REALLY WANT. BUT NO MATTER WHAT THERE WILL BE SOMETHING THAT YOU DON'T LIKE ABOUT IT. UNLESS SAAB MAKE A RETRO 900 HATCHBACK YOU WON'T BE HAPPY.........GIVE IT A BREAK, SAAB IS GOING TO SELL THE 9.7X THEN LATER WE'LL HAVE THE 9.6X SUBARU BASED SUV AND YOU GUYS WILL HAVE THAT TO *ITCH ABOUT THAT TOO. HOW ABOUT THE 9.3 SPORTCOMBI, WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT? IS IT NOT ENOUGH SAAB FOR YOU TOO? BOTTOM LINE IS IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT DON'T BUY IT........thank you now I feel better!!:(

apzer09

19-05-05, 11:27 PM

thank you now I feel better!!:(
And so do I.

Lodro

19-05-05, 11:33 PM

Sadly the one thing that is absent from such threads is constructive critism.

Well, I'll beg to differ a little bit. I have pointed out (in one of the previous 3,000 threads on the subject) that I had specific concerns about no IRS, bad crash scrores, no turbo/bad mpg (I know, I know, its an SUV, and its got to be bterr than a Tourage, right?), and now add to the list no ESP, a real liability I think. All in all though I have to say it hasn't turned out as bad as I'd thought. Its even dare I say it a bit of a looker.

scottgf

20-05-05, 12:57 AM

Raven18940

20-05-05, 01:06 AM

You 9-7X haters really need to grow up. There hasn't been a true Saab in years, GET OVER IT! Even my 9-5 is a rehashed 9000 with bits from a vectra and an old Triumph engine to top it off. I don't care if it's not a "true" saab because I love it. And if these guys love their 9-7's just leave them alone. In fact more power to them for driving something just a little bit different from the rest of the SUV crowd.

912 fanatic

20-05-05, 02:42 AM

Raven18940

20-05-05, 03:24 AM

I am only 18 and swear never to own a saab past a 98 9000 the last true saab
What? The 9000 was the first of the non-saabs, how can that be the last true saab?

ragtopcav

20-05-05, 07:16 AM

Rehashed Triumph - my foot !
Yes, of course, the Saab 99 used a Triumph engine, but this error, I believe, was rectified a few years later.
The chassis architecture [to use the phrase the current breed of designers prefer] is almost identical to a Triumph, yes, fact, it was already old hat when Saab took it on board; the old 900 was the ultimate expression of the Dolemite, in the same vain the new 900 is the ultimate expression of the Euro Cavalier J Body [Opel Vectra A].

I love this small mindedness :lol: the 9000 the last true Saab :lol: it's as much a Lancia as Saab, as far as design goes since the late 60's saab have just borrowed and innovated old stuff, they've had more input from the ground up on the 9-3ss than any other car since the 96 [with its Ford engine] the 9-7 represents this re-engineering of old stuff that Saab has excelled at for many decades.

OK guys heres a challenge, tolerate these new models, the 9-3ss, 9-2 and 9-7 for example, they may even get someone intersted in Saab enough to buy another, this, and only this will ensure the survival of the marque.

And for the record, there is little in common between the 9000 and 9-5, the 9-5 is typically 47% part commonality with the Vauxhall/Opel Vectra B chassis .

apzer09

20-05-05, 07:35 AM

after reading the replies I have come to a understanding. thier are to type of people ones that are saab people and ones that are GM people. I feel to be a saab person you have to at one time owned a 9000. C900, 99,96 or any other pervious saabs. these are the people who know where I am coming from. If these people went to still drive a newer saab it is allright with me because they know where the roots of saab came from. but these knew saab guys will never be saab guys.

Who are you to say we will never be Saab guys? I loved my C900, but I think my 9-3 is every bit a true Saab as the C900. It may have some GM parts underneath, but there has never been a Saab that was 100 percent Saab. The 95 and 96 models used a Ford V4 for much of their lives, and their original engines were not pure Saab designs. Like it has been said before, the 9000 was not a pure Saab, it shared its roof and doors and basic platform with Lancia and Alfa Romeos. I am a Saab guy because I am rooting for Saab's survival as a designer of cars that dare to defy the normal, and are not everybody's BMW. Through the 9-2 and 9-7, Saab has the customers and financial support to carry that on into the future. That's what a Saab guy should be, and I strongly suggest you join the likes of us.

LST

20-05-05, 08:19 AM

Time is moving forward! Competition is moving forwad. I don't think the majority will pay $30k for a brand new c900...

Saab needs to change its direction to get some money injected. Whether it's changing in the right or wrong direction, at least it's changing... If Saab didn't change, we won't be talking about it now..

just my 0.2

LST

ApolloBoy

20-05-05, 06:04 PM

The chassis architecture [to use the phrase the current breed of designers prefer] is almost identical to a Triumph...

Wait, wasn't the 99 based on a lengthened 96 platform?

ragtopcav

20-05-05, 07:50 PM

Wait, wasn't the 99 based on a lengthened 96 platform?
not really no, but there was [i believe ] a great deal of part carry over,

this subject is covered often in the lounge, give you a taste look at this link (http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=355855&postcount=7)

and the rest of that thread (http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40282)

Fast_Ed

20-05-05, 08:27 PM

Hrm, doesnt the C900 use a triumph (or other equally mind-boggling british company) transmission?

I despise SUV's, but if GM thinks it's a good way to keep SAAB alive, then it's worth it.

Hey, as long as they keep putting Viggen parts on the shelf, they can build any travesty of a car that they want. I got what I wanted. And they'll do what they want. The future will never be the past.

I owned 4 c900's before this car, and there's still people who own 99's and 96's, two strokers, etc that could say I'm not a true 'SAAB guy' based on this logic. But these people are usually older and wiser (read: more tolerant) than that. Not to stereotype the old saab drivers or anything :cheesy:

earthworm

20-05-05, 10:03 PM

not really no, but there was [i believe ] a great deal of part carry over,

this subject is covered often in the lounge, give you a taste look at this link (http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=355855&postcount=7)

and the rest of that thread (http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40282)
There was some similarity between the 99 and the 96 - which stands to reason.
But the 99 was about as "all-new", at least for Saab, as possible..It was said that , due to advances, the 99 body was less expensive to manufacture. But, then, so was the '75 VW Golf(Rabbit) as compared to the old bug(113)..
Was this unique body particular to Saab only ?? If so, this is a needlessly expensive way of doing business..

Except for some of the Japanese makes, BMW seems to be the sole independent car-maker..
And to successfully pull this off is quite a feat..Their management must be first rate..

Lodro

20-05-05, 10:08 PM

Except for some of the Japanese makes, BMW seems to be the sole independent car-maker..

Um...no. Porsche is fully independent. Wheras BMW owns Mini and Rolls and used to own Rover and Land Rover.

Raven18940

21-05-05, 03:00 AM

Porsche is in bed with audi and vw

ApolloBoy

21-05-05, 03:02 AM

Um...no. Porsche is fully independent.

Actually, VW owns nearly half of Porsche.

Lodro

21-05-05, 03:34 AM

Actually, VW owns nearly half of Porsche.

http://haasweek.berkeley.edu/20030407/porsche.html

"Volkswagen does NOT own Porsche: It is surprising how many people think this."

Just google for more. Porsche is not part of VAG. The Porsche family retains controlling interest which is all that matters in terms of company direction.

SaabScott

21-05-05, 03:39 PM

hmmmm .... I am at a loss for words.

What exactly is the point of all this negativity?:roll:
GM bought Saab ... Saab doesn't have a choice ... it is the way it is.

Just think about the differences between Chevy and Pontiac.
Between Ford and Mercury.
Between Ford and Mazda.
The build cars that are literally rebadged versions of each other.
Look at the Ford Probe and Mazda MX-6.
The Taurus and Sable.
The Camero and Trans Am.
The Cavilier and Sunbird.
Lincoln and Jag.

I am not saying that those are good cars (nor am I saying they are bad), but look at how many are on the road.
These companies have made a really good buck doing this sort of thing for many, many years.

And since we are on the topic ... how many Saabs have been built by Saab?
I mean 100% by Saab.
Not very many.
If this is what it takes to inject some much needed cash into Saab (and ultimately GM), then so be it.

Would anyone prefer the alternative?
No more Saab?

If you don't like the 9-7x or the 9-2x, then don't buy it.
Heck, if you don't like the NG900, don't buy one of those either.

But let's stop this senseless bashing ... it is pointless.

As Raggy pointed out earlier, how about some constructive critisism?
Take a 9-7x for a drive ... and then drive a Trailblazer or Envoy ... and then drive an XC-90 ... then give us your opinion.
Something based on an actual experience rather than an emotional response.

/rant over

20Ted

21-05-05, 06:50 PM

hmmmm .... I am at a loss for words.

What exactly is the point of all this negativity?:roll:
GM bought Saab ... Saab doesn't have a choice ... it is the way it is.

...

Would anyone prefer the alternative?
No more Saab?

If you don't like the 9-7x or the 9-2x, then don't buy it.
Heck, if you don't like the NG900, don't buy one of those either.

But let's stop this senseless bashing ... it is pointless.

As Raggy pointed out earlier, how about some constructive critisism?
Take a 9-7x for a drive ... and then drive a Trailblazer or Envoy ... and then drive an XC-90 ... then give us your opinion.
Something based on an actual experience rather than an emotional response.

/rant over

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

Enough with all this "my car's better than your car" 7-year-old BS already...This is, after all, SAABCentral and NOT VWVortex! ;)

Raven18940

21-05-05, 08:41 PM

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!

Enough with all this "my car's better than your car" 7-year-old BS already...This is, after all, SAABCentral and NOT VWVortex! ;)
I have no problem with the "my car is better" BS for the most, usually laugh at it. I do have a problem with a old saab driver coming into the new saab part of the forum and saying your car sucks. If you and your buddies think it's not a saab, that's fine, just keep it in your part of the forum. I admitted started a thread like this and I wish I could delete it now cause I was a dumbass.

ragtopcav

22-05-05, 11:36 PM

Would anyone prefer the alternative?
No more Saab?

If you don't like the 9-7x or the 9-2x, then don't buy it.
Heck, if you don't like the NG900, don't buy one of those either.

So if I need a common sense overload I'll take a trip to Canada.

That just about sums it up really, personally I don't get SUV's or the mini MPV's for that matter, but they sell and all marques should be allowed to produce one; also if the Saab 9-7 is a bad product doesn't mean it's a turkey so it may not fail ! a bit of history, VHS & Betamax ;) the defence rests [for now]

ragtopcav

22-05-05, 11:54 PM

I admitted started a thread like this and I wish I could delete it now cause I was a dumbass.
Youre being unfair to yourself, what you've done is expose small mindedness amongst some people that think they're purists [whatever that means] what is needed is quality input from those that have first hand experience, if those people that really want to have an input in how Saab [or any other GM marque] developes then they need to come back from a test drive/show room preview and be direct - 'this sucked and that was cool' kind of response is OK[GM people do read this board, but they ignore poor quality input] so the input needs balance and quality.

I could at the touch of a few control tabs completely bin this thread, I shan't, we [ Saabcentral as a collective] can be very lucid and incisive and they are qualities, I'd rather not suppress them. ;)

Raven18940

23-05-05, 12:26 AM

a bit of history, VHS & Betamax ;) the defence rests [for now]
ROFLMAO :lol::lol::lol: nice one. ;)

SaabScott

23-05-05, 03:23 AM

So if I need a common sense overload I'll take a trip to Canada.

You make it sound like it's a bad thing!:roll:

I'm just tired of the bashing going on ... I wouldn't touch an SUV with a ten foot pole either ... not my taste.
But I'm not going to go beat on people who do like them ... at least not with emotional content (facts maybe;) ).

Lodro

23-05-05, 05:40 PM

Well, what *I* think -- not that it matters -- is that the the content of this forum will change dramatically once the 9-7x finally gets on the streets and there are some owners out there. That is what happened on the 9-2x forum for the most part. a) You'll have more people (hopefully) extolling the virtues of their cars and b) again, hopefully, people will be less likely to say "your car sux" than "Saab's car sux."

I have to add that I think the Saab/GM management has been relativly bone-headed so I think at his point a bit of specific criticism is warranted, though not just on the basis of "Saab should never build an SUV or a car that is not made in Sweeden or a car that is built on a non-Saab platform ." (Hopefully by now we all realize that that last ciritcism is pretty bone-headed given Saabs histroy.)

jetman

24-05-05, 04:51 PM

Any sales of any models are going to help Saab.

Black Beauty

25-05-05, 04:36 AM

Any sales of any models are going to help Saab.

What he said.

comfortablynumb

27-05-05, 02:05 PM

Funny, like somehow life ended with C-900's........

I have a -85 spg, totally unpractical money sucking toy.

I'm glad SAAB makes MODERN cars, so that people who need them
have a chance to drive a SAAB.

I have the first original Apple + computer as well, But I'll be
damned if i dont use something a little more on par with the times....

The C900 is a hobby, an enthusiasts car.

The newer Saabaru's and such are here today to provide solid, comfortable
and fun everyday driving.

Get with the program, or get a black and white TV....

CN

jetman

27-05-05, 08:55 PM

Too funny, I consider my 85 a modern machine. I wouldnt even know where to start with one of these new fandangled things. But I dont hate them or anything silly like that.

ApolloBoy

28-05-05, 12:30 AM

I have a -85 spg, totally unpractical money sucking toy.

Then why do you bother owning it if it's a "money-sucking toy"?

Lodro

28-05-05, 02:13 AM

Then why do you bother owning it if it's a "money-sucking toy"?

Probably because they are so f'in cool...

candiazoo

28-05-05, 03:31 AM

If it has the SAAB badging, it's a SAAB. Even if it is rebadged they take it, tweak it and add their own touches to it.

SAAB has a knack for being able to take whole cars, or parts of cars from other companies and making them their own.

I wish people would stop putting down other peoples' cars. That's not what these forums are for. At least that isn't what I thought they were for.

ApolloBoy

28-05-05, 07:11 AM

Probably because they are so f'in cool...

True! http://www.saab-900.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

Darn this 10-character limit...

sethsev7n

28-05-05, 03:29 PM

I wish people would stop putting down other peoples' cars. That's not what these forums are for. At least that isn't what I thought they were for.

Forums are for discussion. Whether it be good or bad, its discussion. I hate when people whine about when anyone says something bad or negative.. we don't whine and complain when you say something positive. This happened with the 9-2X forum last year and its happening in the 9-7X forum. Theres alot of people (including myself) who are unhappy with what GM is making saab do these days. We have just as much as a right to say how we dont like these vehicles just as much as you have the right to say what you do like about them.

BTW, I didnt read what was above this post, but if someone was just putting someone else down, then what I said doesnt apply. I just had to rant against all the negative talk against... negativity :roll: .

912 fanatic

29-05-05, 02:41 AM

Sorry about getting people up set but some times you just need a place to vent and that is all I was doing. Also if people did not have their own opinion in this world i guess we would all be the same.

4th_Saab

29-05-05, 02:43 AM

What if the 9_7X is a hit and the brain trusts at GM decide that it's time to rebadge an H2 and call it the Saab 9_9X?:roll: :cheesy:

I've driven an Envoy and couldn't understand for the life of me why anyone would want to drive such a thing...it drove like a lumber wagon. OTOH, I've had a Ford Expedition as a rental car (Hertz has a sick sense of humor..I reserved a compact) and found it to be quite comfortable, but the (calculated) 14 MPG consumption rate was a big turn-off.

I'm going to test drive the 9_7X just to see what Saab could do with it...

I guess my big objection to the 9_7X is that Saab tries to pound the State of Independence thing into our heads via ad copy at a time in the company's history where Saabs are less different then ever before...

ApolloBoy

01-06-05, 06:20 AM

What if the 9_7X is a hit and the brain trusts at GM decide that it's time to rebadge an H2 and call it the Saab 9_9X?:roll: :cheesy:

Oh my God, you put a bad image in my head... :o :lol:

Lodro

01-06-05, 05:31 PM

Oh my God, you put a bad image in my head... :o :lol:

No, no..listen, it makes sense. Where else will all the guys with um..small endowments..go when they want something a little more upscale and "euro" than their hummers?

ApolloBoy

02-06-05, 06:16 PM

No, no..listen, it makes sense. Where else will all the guys with um..small endowments..go when they want something a little more upscale and "euro" than their hummers?

A Mercedes G-Class? :cheesy:

SaabKen

02-06-05, 06:28 PM

One of these ?

Lodro

02-06-05, 09:36 PM

A Mercedes G-Class? :cheesy:

Ah, right, good point, we have a few of those roaming around these parts.

btw, I wonder if these Hummer owners realize that everyone is laughing at them as they drive down the road? Not the desired effect, I would imagine..

Lodro

02-06-05, 09:40 PM

One of these ?

Awesome, did anyone else catch the daily show segement with Rob Cordry driving around in the 80' hummer investigating high gas prices?

[Edit] Here's a link:

http://www.comedycentral.com/shows/the_daily_show/videos/rob_corddry/index.jhtml

Its the upper-left clip.

SAABISTI

04-06-05, 07:11 PM

The 9-2X and the 9-7X are badge-engineered vehicles. There's a big difference b/w badge-engineering and sharing components here and there. If I'm not mistaken, Saab is the only European car manufacturer with 2 badge-engineered products (50% of its current lineup!) on the market, and that's a huge embarassment. I don't care if the 9-2X and the 9-7X are going to generate much needed cash, because, in my opinion, the damage they do to Saab's image will be permanent.

Even with component sharing, borrowing from or cooperating with Fiat/Lancia, Triumph, or even Opel is not the same as being mentioned in the same line as the Chevrolet Trailblazer.;oops: As a European car fan in general and a Saab lover in particular, I will not be caught dead in an American SUV. An American SUV clad in "Swedish" fur, built in Ohio, sounds only marginally more appealing.:roll:

Lastly, if the number of 9-2s I've seen to date (just ONE) is any indication, the cash-generating plan is not working that well either.

I've always applauded Peugeot and Alfa Romeo for simply withdrawing from North America instead of *******ising their products to cater to an unappreciative and tasteless market. Saab should have done the same.

sethsev7n

05-06-05, 12:29 AM

definately agree.

The 9-2X and the 9-7X are badge-engineered vehicles. There's a big difference b/w badge-engineering and sharing components here and there. If I'm not mistaken, Saab is the only European car manufacturer with 2 badge-engineered products (50% of its current lineup!) on the market, and that's a huge embarassment. I don't care if the 9-2X and the 9-7X are going to generate much needed cash, because, in my opinion, the damage they do to Saab's image will be permanent.

Even with component sharing, borrowing from or cooperating with Fiat/Lancia, Triumph, or even Opel is not the same as being mentioned in the same line as the Chevrolet Trailblazer.;oops: As a European car fan in general and a Saab lover in particular, I will not be caught dead in an American SUV. An American SUV clad in "Swedish" fur, built in Ohio, sounds only marginally more appealing.:roll:

Lastly, if the number of 9-2s I've seen to date (just ONE) is any indication, the cash-generating plan is not working that well either.

I've always applauded Peugeot and Alfa Romeo for simply withdrawing from North America instead of *******ising their products to cater to an unappreciative and tasteless market. Saab should have done the same.

philosophicaldreamer

05-06-05, 11:21 PM

I've always applauded Peugeot and Alfa Romeo for simply withdrawing from North America instead of *******ising their products to cater to an unappreciative and tasteless market. Saab should have done the same.

I basically agree with you that North American market does not have appropriate appreciation for European cars. However, I thought that the reason Peugeot had withdrawn from the States was that they provided very poor support for their cars--at least this is what my Volvo mechanic tells me. I hope that Saab won't withdraw from the States. I would hate to be confined to driving solely Volvos, and the Japanese manufacturers have managed to suck all the fun from driving, even if they do make the best reliable cars on the market.

Ta-ta, janusz

valbowski1980

06-06-05, 12:24 AM

I would hate to be confined to driving solely Volvos, and the Japanese manufacturers have managed to suck all the fun from driving, even if they do make the best reliable cars on the market.

Ta-ta, janusz

I could imagine a far worse fate. Volvos are nice cars and the Japanese make brilliant ones even if they do eventually fall into the hands of someone who thinks a big and loud exhaust is a good idea.

Black Beauty

06-06-05, 03:09 AM

I've always applauded Peugeot and Alfa Romeo for simply withdrawing from North America instead of *******ising their products to cater to an unappreciative and tasteless market. Saab should have done the same.

Saab would not exist but for the North American market. Saab's financial crisis would have been more severe, and occurred much faster, if Saab had not sold all those classic 900's in North America in the 80's and early 90's.

No one's making you buy a 9-7x. The profits from the 9-7x will fund development of the next 9-3 and 9-5.

For better or worse, there's an enormous market for cars like the 9-7x in North America. The only serious auto manufacturer that has survived in NA without an SUV is Audi, and they're coming out with their own SUV soon, too.

I blame GM for poor brand management, by not letting Saab introduce a "European" SUV sooner -- but the successor to the 9-7x will be much more its own car.

philosophicaldreamer

06-06-05, 05:14 AM

I could imagine a far worse fate. Volvos are nice cars and the Japanese make brilliant ones even if they do eventually fall into the hands of someone who thinks a big and loud exhaust is a good idea.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that Japanese make brilliant cars: I guess the last time I saw a brilliant car, it was in a museum in Geneva dedicated to Buggattis. Again I do believe, however, that Japanse have mastered the quality control, but their sense of aesthetic design leaves much to be desired. Lately I have noticed that Toyota is hell bent on building as ugly cars as possible. No, I will try to stick to Volvos and Saabs for as long as I can . . ., unless one day I wake up and decide that cars are nothing more but utilitarian pieces of machinery that have nothing to do with experience of driving. It might be my European chauvinism or call me crazy, but if I have a choice between a well preserved SAAB 900 C or a new Q45 I'll take the SAAB, for it has a class that a slick Q45 lacks. If you look carefully at Japanese luxury cars, you can tell that they are trying to mimic European makes. I guess this is how I see it. Let us hope that bloody GM does not kill SAAB.:)

Ta-ta, janusz