Details, details details - the 9-3 SportCombi [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Details, details details - the 9-3 SportCombi


Swade
18-04-05, 09:44 PM
Hi all,

I've just spent an unjustifiable amount of time reformatting a whole bunch of info from GM about the 9-3 Sport Combi. There's write ups on the Exterior, Interior, Safety, Chassis, Powertrain and a bunch more.

What I've published is a 9-page Summary (http://redinterior.typepad.com/trollhattan/2005/04/all_the_info_an.html), covering all aspects of the car. If there's anything anyone would like in further detail, give me a shout. Each element has between 2 and 6 pages written up.

If you're interested in this vehicle when it comes out, there's a bit more detail here than what's been in the press.

Cheers,

sethsev7n
18-04-05, 11:25 PM
Great writeup. The coolest thing i read is that the automatic climate control system adjusts itself if it senses the sun shining in on one side of the car and adjusts the climate appropriately. Thats pretty cool.

However im peeved about the rear lights. They look good colored, but I think they look better clear and honestly SAABS really don't scream rice, and that wouldnt. Oh well.

Swade
19-04-05, 12:23 AM
I think the clear lenses look sensational. I'd love to chase some up for my 99.

It really does look like a great car.

saabluster
19-04-05, 01:42 AM
NO clear lights!!!! WHAT IS WRONG WITH SAAB USA? This makes me so madd I can hardly see straight!!! We finally have a chance to stand out from the rest of the market and they go and blow it. It completly ruins the rear of the car. I adds too much visual weight to the rear. WHHHHHHYYYYYYY??:evil::evil::evil::evil::evil:

Swade
19-04-05, 03:10 AM
Um, at risk of getting blown away....

I have a feeling the colored lights will be required in a bunch of countries for legal reasons. Not sure which countries, but it seems the US will be one of them. This is one I don't think we can pin on GM.

novacoke
19-04-05, 06:33 AM
Swade took the words out of my mouth... in the US it illegal to have clear rear lenses because they could be mistaken for either reverse/head lights. Sorta a pointless restriction, but there reguardless. Now, if only the police around here were hurting for money and pulled everyone over with clear lenses, they definatly wouldnt be able to afford a paint job after covering the car in bondo.

sethsev7n
19-04-05, 10:27 AM
Um, at risk of getting blown away....

I have a feeling the colored lights will be required in a bunch of countries for legal reasons. Not sure which countries, but it seems the US will be one of them. This is one I don't think we can pin on GM.

I don't think you guys are correct. The Lexus SUV has clear LEDs in the back if i remember.. and doesnt the bulb just have to shine red, not the housing that its in? Just like our clear blinkers up front..

novacoke
19-04-05, 10:32 AM
I don't think you guys are correct. The Lexus SUV has clear LEDs in the back if i remember.. and doesnt the bulb just have to shine red, not the housing that its in? Just like our clear blinkers up front..

This is kind of a grey area. If you had clear lenses and replaced the bulbs with colored ones, I'm not exactly sure what the legality of it would be, it probably would depend on local law enforcment. What I know is illegal without a doubt is having non-colored lights on the rear of a vehicle besides the reverse lights. I laugh when I see ricers driving around with white blinkers because its just a matter of time before they get pulled over and get a couple more tickets tacked on top.

abdukted1456
19-04-05, 02:18 PM
you need a red reflector somewhere in the back, and the lights have to lightup red.

I don't see why you can't stick a red reflector on the bumper strip/trim and make clear lights with red LED lighting. :confused:

93Linear
19-04-05, 04:13 PM
According to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 108, issued by the U.S. Dept. of Transportation (DOT), in addition to the red brake lights and red or amber turn indicator lights, there must be at least 2 red reflectors in the rear and 2 red reflectors on the sides (wrap the corners) of the vehicle.

Nothing wrong with Saab USA other than they follow the law.

Browse this (or do your own search of FMVSS 108) if you have questions:
http://www.aamva.org/Documents/vehEquipmentLightingFedMotorVehiclePresentation.PD F

Stellar I
19-04-05, 04:48 PM
I'm not crazy about either the white tails or red. Either way, they're eNORmous. And they remind me strongly of a Volvo waggon rentacar I used a few years back.

A silver European SC or a red American SC would minimize the impact of those taillights...

Swade
19-04-05, 06:40 PM
The 9-3 SportCombi is now online. May have been there a little while, but it's the first time I'd seen it.

http://www.saab.com/main/GLOBAL/en/model/93_WAGON/index_flash.shtml

saabluster
20-04-05, 03:59 AM
According to Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 108, issued by the U.S. Dept. of Transportation (DOT), in addition to the red brake lights and red or amber turn indicator lights, there must be at least 2 red reflectors in the rear and 2 red reflectors on the sides (wrap the corners) of the vehicle.

Nothing wrong with Saab USA other than they follow the law.

Browse this (or do your own search of FMVSS 108) if you have questions:
http://www.aamva.org/Documents/vehEquipmentLightingFedMotorVehiclePresentation.PD F

http://www.infiniti.com/m/cma/i/cat/cat_fx45_design_5_large.jpg
So are they breaking the law?( FX45) The red part is not the brake lights. Surely Saab could have integrated some red reflectors into the design without resorting to gigantic candy canes for tail lights.

saabluster
20-04-05, 04:13 AM
This makes me so madd I can hardly see straight!!! I adds too much visual weight to the rear.

Or spell straight apparently!;oops:

Understand this angst is not directed towards you guys.

sethsev7n
20-04-05, 09:13 AM
http://www.infiniti.com/m/cma/i/cat/cat_fx45_design_5_large.jpg
So are they breaking the law?( FX45) The red part is not the brake lights. Surely Saab could have integrated some red reflectors into the design without resorting to gigantic candy canes for tail lights.


They did. Look at the red reflectors under the exhaust....

http://www.9xstudios.com/shosko/saab/rear93combi.jpg

This setup is perfectly legal in the US, give that the lights SHINE red when brakes are applied or lights are on. They are choosing do have colored light housings for aesthetic reasons for the US, which I think is a bad move.

abdukted1456
20-04-05, 09:43 AM
They are choosing do have colored light housings for aesthetic reasons for the US, which I think is a bad move.

They probably read the comments on here from all the complainers who said the white was ugly and ruined it fir the rest of us! :lol:

novacoke
20-04-05, 09:49 AM
They probably read the comments on here from all the complainers who said the white was ugly and ruined it fir the rest of us! :lol:

Well, we know they read the forums, and we know the pictures with red lenses are photoshopped... they are probably just testing the waters. See which lense gets more of a reaction from the community... it is a pretty minor change.

93Linear
20-04-05, 09:57 AM
This setup is perfectly legal in the US, give that the lights SHINE red when brakes are applied or lights are on. They are choosing do have colored light housings for aesthetic reasons for the US, which I think is a bad move.

There must also (by law) be red reflectors on the rear sides of the vehicle ... this is why most car in the US just have red lenses/reflectors that wrap the corners of the car these days. Look at some older cars (saw a Pontiac and an old van on my commute) that have tail lights that do not wrap the corners and you will see ugly little red lights/reflectors sitting there in the middle of nowhere on the rear flanks.

Don't get me wrong ... I like the frosted lights, wish we had them, but just not sure how to get a reasonable side light/reflector that will satisfy DOT without looking horrid. Either it would be small and possibly disconnected from the big azz tails ... or it would be some God awful strip running up the lenght/height of the tails ????? ummmm ... yuck. While they may not be the most beautiful solution, if i gotta have red in the back and on the side ... just give me the red lenses and be done with it.

Brewman013
20-04-05, 12:08 PM
What I was told was blame in on California, their regulations prohibit clear rear lens. So all US spec cars will have the colored lens. BUT.....I was also told the clear lens would be available as a dealer installed option!!

SaabKen
20-04-05, 01:05 PM
The Altima has clear housing with amber and red lights within, as does our very own 9-7X, and the upcoming Mazda5:

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=upcomingMazda5


Perhaps the delayed launch is intended so Saab can take in all the preliminary feedback and finesse the details :confused:

Vector-SS
20-04-05, 10:33 PM
On Saab Global website, it mentions that " Frosted Transparent rear lamps" are standard on all models


http://www.saab.com/main/GLOBAL/en/model/93_WAGON/index_flash.shtml

cpenning623
20-04-05, 11:08 PM
the clears look amazing...and there are PLENTY of cars that have clear tailights and front lights. I'll be very dissappionted if saab usa doesnt have them on the combi...but if i were to buy one, and it did have the ugly, boring, un-original red/orage deal....i'd just order some from europe if they were within a reasonalbe price...and i'd even take the harrassment from ths cops, even though i think they have beter things to do with thier time then hassle people about something as miniscule as the color of tailights. And if anyone ever mistakes them for tailights, then.....well actually im not even gonna go there, if someone really cant tell headlights from tailights, they should be allowed within 100ft of a car....the direction the car is traveling, the red color, the brake lights....are all kinda dead give aways

saabluster
21-04-05, 01:30 AM
They did. Look at the red reflectors under the exhaust....

http://www.9xstudios.com/shosko/saab/rear93combi.jpg

This setup is perfectly legal in the US, give that the lights SHINE red when brakes are applied or lights are on. They are choosing do have colored light housings for aesthetic reasons for the US, which I think is a bad move.
Those don't look like they wrap around per 93linear's post. And I'm not blind I saw those. Agree is bad move.

novacoke
21-04-05, 07:50 AM
the clears look amazing...and there are PLENTY of cars that have clear tailights and front lights. I'll be very dissappionted if saab usa doesnt have them on the combi...but if i were to buy one, and it did have the ugly, boring, un-original red/orage deal....i'd just order some from europe if they were within a reasonalbe price...and i'd even take the harrassment from ths cops, even though i think they have beter things to do with thier time then hassle people about something as miniscule as the color of tailights. And if anyone ever mistakes them for tailights, then.....well actually im not even gonna go there, if someone really cant tell headlights from tailights, they should be allowed within 100ft of a car....the direction the car is traveling, the red color, the brake lights....are all kinda dead give aways

I think the purpose is to distinguish them from reverse-lights not headlights... but I agree with everyone here. So long as the bulbs are colored it should not matter.

LinearSLT
21-04-05, 09:00 AM
I can't believe the amount of discussion that the clear vs red lens generates. That's good. It means Saab owners are not as homogenized and quirky as our press would have us believe :p

There are a number of papers published in SAE journals that suggest that reaction times for cars that are following are shorter when the car has red lenses. The reason is ascribed to the fact that the driver following you is paying more attention to those areas of your rear (!) and thus when you brake, the eyes don't have to be drawn there first. Saves 100 to 300 ms, which is 1-3 car lengths at North American highway speeds.

Same articles show in Japan, where traffic is dense, people are using their brakes all the time. So even with clear lenses, you very quickly get a sense of where you should be looking at the car in front of you to get your cues.

Personally, I'll take the red lenses and not have to take it up the rear when braking on the highway.

So indeed, the rules can be different in different countries because the driving conditions are very different.

93Linear
21-04-05, 10:29 AM
Ok ... all those vehicles (and the other pic already in this thread) include not only red lights, but also red reflectors inside of the housing. This is how they meet DOT standard. Now, my whole point was not to say that Saab couldn't somehow give us clear housing ... but instead that it is easier for them to just make the housing red. As I've already stated, I personally love the frosted housing ... I just think it would be tricky at best to incorporate the requisite red reflectors into pillar-length, frosted tail housings without looking incredibly tacky ... look at the size of the housing on the Combi compared to the other examples ... how big would you make the integrated red reflectors (back & side) and where would you put them that wouldn't either stand out like a sore thumb do to the proportional differences (if they are small like on the exampled cars & trucks) or be gaudy from the sheer size of it (big housing = big reflectors??)

I don't know ... maybe it's just me ... but does anyone else understand what I am saying here? Can you envision a size and location of reflectors that would not cheapen (or worse yet, "rice out") the look of the those long azz tail lamp housings? As much as I wish it weren't the case, it just seems like the red housings are the "cleanest" solution. Also, prolly the easiest to implement from a production standpoint, since you would keep the same form factor and just mold in a different color plastic.

All that being said, if there are any talented/creative people out there that think they can Photochop up an example of reflector size and location that works ... I'd be more than happy to see it! :cheesy:

abdukted1456
21-04-05, 10:35 AM
I know what you are saying, the last thing I would want is "altezza" rice lights on the new Saab. :o

saabluster
05-05-05, 02:03 AM
All that being said, if there are any talented/creative people out there that think they can Photochop up an example of reflector size and location that works ... I'd be more than happy to see it! :cheesy:


http://www.fltsales.co.uk/forklifts/saab1.jpg






how about this!

Fla2Cali
05-05-05, 02:14 AM
It looks really good in that pic.. the Taillights should come.

93Linear
05-05-05, 11:53 AM
http://www.fltsales.co.uk/forklifts/saab1.jpg






how about this!

I like it ... still a ~lil~ out of place with that small blob of red in all that clear, but better than all red, I suppose ... just wonder if those lights/reflectors show enough from the side to meet DOT standards??? I sure hope so ... but up to those bassturds to decide. Personally, I think these lights would look exceptional on a silver car ...

saab9x
05-05-05, 03:27 PM
i think they're better than the _all_ "cliche"
red lenses.

the frosted ("ice-block") lenses look better
than clear ("ricer") lenses.

i can see these lenses looking good on an
all black combi, as well.

Thad
06-05-05, 08:23 PM
y'all need to check the Saab USA website where there are pics that show the red taillights, The bottom area and the area above the silver bar are all red, only the small middle area retains the iced frosted look. To bad, as the all frosted lights looked great in person at the NYC show....