Saab develops hybrid [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Saab develops hybrid


andante
13-04-05, 05:31 PM
Article (in Swedish): http://www.svd.se/dynamiskt/inrikes/did_9531554.asp



Due to the appalling lack of knowledege in Swedish among the members of this site, I have made a quick translation below. ;)


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Saab Automobile is developing a hybrid version of the Saab 9-3. A prototype will be ready this fall, in time for winter tests. The car will have two engines, one gasoline and one electric. It will be developed in cooperation with Lund Institute of Technology (http://www.lth.se/english/about/default.html).

General Motors has instructed Saab to adapt one or several models to a hybrid system developed jointly by GM and Daimler-Chrysler. This system is developed primarily for large RWD cars. Saab is to adapt it to a hybrid suited for the European Market.

- We do not know which models we will end up with. But we have to be ready and possess the know-how to handle this complex project, says Tommy Lindholm, Saabs Project Manager.

As early as 2001 Saab built an electric hybrid of the Saab 9-5. But the technology has evolved since.

- We have made a vast upgrade of the system. We are using all new components, and have computerized everything, says Lindholm.

apzer09
13-04-05, 06:08 PM
Nice! Saab could easily be ahead of many competitors by offering a hybrid 9-3 or 9-5 or both. GM could easily make a 9-7x hybrid. But they really need to sell them in North America. Europe doesn't necessarily have the same demand for hybrids that the US does.

SaabKen
14-04-05, 11:11 AM
Saabs have been hybridized since 1993 ....... half Saab, half GM :lol:

Saab=Unique
14-04-05, 11:48 AM
Nice! Saab could easily be ahead of many competitors by offering a hybrid 9-3 or 9-5 or both. GM could easily make a 9-7x hybrid. But they really need to sell them in North America. Europe doesn't necessarily have the same demand for hybrids that the US does.

I doubt that. I hear gas is alot more expensive in Europe than America. If Saab developed a car that allowed europeans to save money on gas or drive more, it could be a huge market. Europe does have more people in it than the US does BTW ;)

squishmann
14-04-05, 02:33 PM
what about a diesel hybrid? 300lbs of tq and 100mpg!

i say forget hybrids on work on the future of fuel cells and all that junk.

Saab needs some more innovations. they haven't done anything since the fans in the seats.

escalator guru
14-04-05, 02:44 PM
I've been waiting for this for a long time. Excellent news, thanks for the translation.

Hornet11586
14-04-05, 03:42 PM
Time to get those gas mileages lower :)

One good thing from GM, I'd say

Stellar I
14-04-05, 07:20 PM
I doubt that. I hear gas is alot more expensive in Europe than America. If Saab developed a car that allowed europeans to save money on gas or drive more, it could be a huge market. Europe does have more people in it than the US does BTW ;)
My understanding is that diesel serves as the preferred economy option for Europe. Diesels have a very bad image in the US though.
Toyota is definately embracing hybrid as their platform. Probably all Toyotas and Lexus' will have a hybrid option in a few years.
And I'm pleased to see that Honda has recognized the performance potential of hybrids with the Accord. The electric motor makes torque, but is not as great at horsepower. Treat it like an electric "turbo"!

valbowski1980
14-04-05, 07:55 PM
Great news indeed. I hope they will build it.

Raven18940
14-04-05, 08:45 PM
Hybrids are stupid............yes I have reasons. Why pay twice as much for a slower car. Americans keep banging on about how high the gas prices are, but the truth is they aren't really that bad. More than they once were, but not that bad. A Toyota Prius only gets 45 mpg, and most of that is due to aerodynamics and weight reduction, it weighs under 3000 lbs. That's really not all that impressive, a diesel in a bigger, heavier car would do as well or better. My big, heavy 9-5 does 35 mpg on the highway at 65 mph, but I can still drop it into 3rd and do 55-90 in 7 seconds. The big problem with hybrids lies in the electric motor, it can't even turn 2000 rpms. This requires really tall gears, thus it's ok around town, but has nothing by the time you reach highway speeds. 300lb-ft of torque, lot of good it does from 0-1200 rpms. :roll: And then there's the cost of maintaining these overengineered drivetrains. I mean there haven't been many problems yet cause the only hybrids have been toyotas or honds, but think of what will happen when GM builts them. Americans need to either stop driving their gas gazzling SUV's, get over their hatred of diesels, or just quit *****ing about the gas prices.

valbowski1980
14-04-05, 09:14 PM
Why pay twice as much for a slower car.

What about the new V6 Accord Hybrid? That thing is not only more efficient than a regular Accord V6 but it's faster too.

Like a lot of people, I think that you are overlooking one of the Hybrid's major virtues. In city traffic, or anywhere there is a lot of stop-and-go they are much better than anything else (short of a bicycle of course :)). It's not hard to build a car which can get 30+ highway as well as have it be quick, making one which can do 30+ city is another story.

Swade
14-04-05, 09:17 PM
Ethanol is on the rise in Europe as well (http://redinterior.typepad.com/trollhattan/2005/04/saab_biopower_t.html). The Local reported a 67% rise in Ethanol cars in 2004 in Sweden and the number of pumps will be quadrupled by the end of 2006. The 9-5 Biopower vehicle should arrive in the Swede summer to take advantage. This is a seedling industry and could be good value for Saab. Low (zero?) emissions and a renewable source that also supports another industry. I guess it'll come down to the fuel costs as to whether it's a success or not.

Raven18940
14-04-05, 10:05 PM
What about the new V6 Accord Hybrid? That thing is not only more efficient than a regular Accord V6 but it's faster too.

Like a lot of people, I think that you are overlooking one of the Hybrid's major virtues. In city traffic, or anywhere there is a lot of stop-and-go they are much better than anything else (short of a bicycle of course :)). It's not hard to build a car which can get 30+ highway as well as have it be quick, making one which can do 30+ city is another story.
This is true, but I still stand by my opinion that it's a grossly overengineered drivetrain. In a city it may be better, but why would you pay that much more for a city run-around. I still think Americans in general need to STFU about gas prices. Complain to Exxon/Mobil for not building any new refinaries for the past 30 years, that's what is causing the price hikes in America, not opec. And the price goes up 20 cents and everyone acts like it's the end of the world. "We need to drill in Alaska," but that won't help cause we can't refine the oil we have. "We need more hybrids, ford's making a hybrid suv soon." :o hybrid......s-u-v.......riiiiight. Never mind the fact that the biggest factor in fuel economy is weight, followed by aerodynamic drag at high speeds. ARGH, I hate this country and it's stupid population. Curse being of above average intelligence.

midway
15-04-05, 02:32 AM
My 89 9000 gets the same fuel economy as the 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid, except I get to drive 70mph on highways and use my airconditioner. To get its numbers the Accord has to do 55mph on the highway and no AC!
Hybrids like UBoats are dead end technology adaptions. You end up with a much more complicated system that is just asking for reliability problems in two to three years.
When you think about it, gas and diesel engines are basically steam engines that use liquid fuel instead of steam to turn the wheels. Aircraft and fast ships all use turbines to generate greater power at lower cost and weight.
Saab and GM should look at turbine engines, which will burn just about anything and generate awesome thrust/horsepower. Imagine a SAAB CAR with an afterburner! Heck, Chrysler had a working concept car in the early 80's with a turbine engine...the only reason they didn't test market it was because they almost went bankrupt back then. And Turbine engines work just fine in tanks, helicopters, small aircraft, and in generators.

valbowski1980
15-04-05, 08:51 AM
Never mind the fact that the biggest factor in fuel economy is weight, followed by aerodynamic drag at high speeds.
Very true. It's funny how few people actually know this.

For me it really isn't the price of gas, but the other vices like emissions and the swelling bank accounts of the Saudi Royals.

My 89 9000 gets the same fuel economy as the 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid, except I get to drive 70mph on highways and use my airconditioner

Good for it, now try it in traffic and see which one does better. Give the C&D writeup on the Accord Hybrid a read before you talk it down. I think that you will be surprised.

aeropilot
15-04-05, 09:48 AM
Heck, Chrysler had a working concept car in the early 80's with a turbine engine...

Took them a long time to catch up then didn't it.....:lol:

Rover Cars debuted their first gas turbine powered car in 1950, and built many other gas turbine prototypes up until the mid-1960's.
That included a Rover gas turbine engined BRM entered in the 1963 LeMans 24 hr, driven by Graham Hill and Richie Ginther.

partsmanager
16-04-05, 07:56 AM
Hybrids are stupid

My thoughts exactly. Make it electric or gas, choose one.

BruinSAAB
17-04-05, 11:08 AM
Gas turbines are very inefficient at lower speeds. Turbines are most useful when they can operate at a single speed or within a very narrow range of speeds. Vehicle speed is governed by reduction gearing. Gas Turbine use on board ships is confined primarily to vessels requiring high power applications. Low- or medium-speed diesels are generally used for cargo vessels that require high operating efficiency and relatively lower speeds. For vessels that require high efficiency cruising with the capability to go faster in short bursts of speeds, CODAG is commonly used:

Gearing - S/D Types, Propulsion - Diesel & Gas (CODOG) OR (CODAG)
The CODOG version of this propulsion configuration splits the power of a gas turbine to drive two propellers at high power/speed or, with the gas turbine off, the propellers are individually driven by two diesel engines at moderate cruise power/speed levels. Power is transmitted from the gas turbine through double-reduction gearing (D-Type) to both propellers and from the diesels through a single reduction (S-Type) gear.

Alternatively, all three prime movers can operate simultaneously (CODAG) in the above manner to drive the two propellers.

Patrol gunboats, frigates and corvettes, which rely on both maximum cruise efficiency and full power capability, use these configurations. This gearing can transmit 50,000 hp or more over a wide range of appropriate output speeds.

valbowski1980
17-04-05, 04:02 PM
My thoughts exactly. Make it electric or gas, choose one.

But why not consolidate the virtues of both to make something better?