9-6x / 9-5x ?? What's up? [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: 9-6x / 9-5x ?? What's up?

6th April 2005, 12:04 AM
Someone told me that in the latest Car & Driver that the reports say that there will now be NO Saab version of the Subie Tribeca (9-6x) and that a new 9-5x is being worked on using the GM Theta (Saturn Vue, Chevy Equinox) platform and will be built by Daewoo :o in Korea???? Hopefully its an April Fool's Issue??

6th April 2005, 01:05 AM
There's a thread on this in the 9-7x section of the forums (why there, Idunno). I've searched the C&D site and can't find anything. Sad if true but don't get flustered until you hear something from GM I'd say. There's been a little too much already spoken about the 9-6x for it to be canned that way. Then again, it's GM and they did can Zeta, so....

You might remember, this was written only 2-3 weeks ago: "Forster said GM will create a global Saab crossover vehicle. Front-drive is no longer a core value for Saab. "But agile, predictable handling definitively is," he said at the Geneva auto show.

"Unlike the Saab 9-2X and 9-7X, which were developed half-way into the base models' life cycles, the crossover Saab is a brand new development," said a source, adding that it is at least three years away.

The Saab 9-6 comes first. A GM Europe source said: "closer to 18 months than two years."

I'd take that quoted source over an unquoted C&D article that hasn't been seen yet. But that's me.

6th April 2005, 07:20 AM
I think that's some stupid article based in some words expressed by Bob Lutz about the strategy of GM to make GM and all his brands more global and flexible, capable to share parts and engineering...

here you can see the interview.....the last words fo Bob are a simply expression to make an idea how is the intention of GM to make GM brands global and flexible in every aspect, when he say that a Saab could be maid in Korea, this is not a true thing it is only a expression, could be?? yes could be, the same that the 9-2x is made in japan and the next 9-3ss in russelheim or the 9-7x and 9-6x is made in USA....

but in other way this could be a fault of Bob, if they say Korea could be they have in mind something but...

There is a website you can search the registered "names" of the future models by brand, and Saab register the 9-6x name.

Lutz: GM outgrew engineering structure

This month General Motors created a global committee to revamp the way it develops platforms and produces vehicles for sale around the world. The automaker wants to cut costs by creating global platforms and common parts while at the same time moving engineering and design work to offices that have capacity to handle the work.

Robert Lutz, GM's vice chairman of product development, discussed the changes with Product Editor Rick Kranz at the Geneva auto show this month.

What will be different now that the global committee is in place?

There will no longer be a European engineering budget, an American engineering budget, a General Motors North America engineering budget. There will be one global engineering budget that will be administered by (global engineering vice president) Jim Queen.

Toyota and Honda run this business on a global basis, and we were maybe a little bit late. The regional model worked very well for us about 10 years ago. Now the scale of the business has changed.

In the old days, the global product plan was simply the Asia-Pacific product plan, the (Latin) American product plan, the European product plan and the North American product plan stapled together. That is out the window now.

We are going to have a genuine global product plan with global priorities, global vehicles - not necessarily the same vehicles - and it all fits in with the global architectures.

In terms of common engineering, how will today's Epsilon architecture differ from the next generation?

Today's Epsilon is not interbuildable. We call them all Epsilon, but Saabs can't be built in a German Epsilon plant; German Epsilons can't be built in a Saab plant. (Chevrolet) Malibu and (Pontiac) G6 couldn't be built in Europe. (Opel) Vectra couldn't be built in the United States.

Wasn't that the goal of today's Epsilon architecture?

It never worked. They (the regions) departed to where you can't interchange parts.

We still had regions, and once the architecture was settled, every region started to say, "Well, we don't double-tool this thing anyway, so we might as well make it the way we like it or the way it is convenient for us."

(Now) we will be able to build a Buick Epsilon in China, a Saab Epsilon in Korea or the United States, a German Epsilon in Latin America, Germany and Korea with a minimum lead time. Once we get the parts identical, we have these enormous savings in worldwide parts buying

6th April 2005, 03:06 PM
How is this supposed to sound good? This is the cut cost strategy which we all know cuts out individuality, uniqueness, and quality. Soon every GM car will be the same, with the same parts, and same (shared) engineering. Basically, all the same cars with different "skins" over them and a different badge.

My approach to business is to build brand uniqueness, innovation, soul, and passion. If you are losing money either you are not doing this, or you just have a bad product.

GM's approach is to homogenize everything, cut costs (uh, you need those costs), and play it safe.

arrgghh @#$%. This type of business drives me nuts. They're all wimps with no passion, no feeling, no innovative drive. I'm sure they all graduated from college with high grades too.. if college has taught me one thing it has taught me that college is there to educate everyone on how to be a good employee, reduce risk (investing, in business in general), obey rules, and take the safe road.

sorry for my rant ;oops:

6th April 2005, 04:58 PM
Carl Peter Foster, anounced that the restyling of the 9-5 and the 9-6x will be showed at the Frankfurt autoshow(source; autonews)

This is the way to make business in a very mature market, the automotive industry are becoming like a "commodoty", manufacturing is not profitable and the market(We are the market, and we are the culprit/guilty of this situation, because we demand more products and more earlier and for this reason the automotive companies need to reduce the time of development, costs to be competitive and that's the reason for the sinergies, share of technology and so.....if you take a look at BMW, Mercedes and Audi they make exactly the same but they have the enough brand image to support it(Mercedes now are in big problems, for instance), Audi it has a very good "marketing" to avoid problems of brand image when they use many VW parts and technology and share many with them, BMW they are making many sinergies between different category models, for instance the new 3series are a mix of the 1series(with a bad quality interiors) and 5 series, the rear suspension are exactly the same of the 1series, the design of the interior are a mix of the 5 series and 1series, it will develop engines with PSA, and when he owned Rover, tryied to use some of Rover parts but with the quqlity problems they have then decided to cancel this sinergies.

Now, the chance for Saab is to become a refference in technology, design and product development in GM, that's the way that Saab can mantain his quirckness and own technology, sharing many of them with GM and applying it to his own models.(turbo technology, safety, design, ergonomy,aerodinamics, chasis/comfort and so....)


6th April 2005, 05:48 PM
Source: Car & Driver; May 2005; Page 37
The body on frame mid-size 9-7X will be the only Saab SUV in showrooms for a couple of years until the Swedish automaker's car based unibody SUV, now dubbed the 9-5X, shows up in 2007.

Some time back, word had it that the car-based sport-ute would be called the 9-6X and would be based on Subaru's B9 Tribeca, but it seems the Japanese platform was dismissed because it would have required too many modifications to adapt a diesel engine necessary for Europe.

Therefore, Saab will build the 9-5X on the GM Theta platform that underpins the Saturn Vue, Chevrolet Equinox and Pontiac's upcoming Torrent.

A four-cylinder turbo-diesel engine will come from Italian maker VM Motori for use in the Saab, although plans for importing the diesel to the States seem unlikely.

Don't be surprised if the 9-5X is build in a Daewoo plant in Korea.

Swedish sacrilege? Perhaps, but Saab is trying hard to stay competitive by cutting production, development and currency costs.

Are any Saabs going to be of Saab design anymore? Or even built in Sweden?

6th April 2005, 08:02 PM
I can't remember where I read it the other day, but one article cited thae fact that GM currently spends more on health costs in the US than it does on steel. The labour costs in the US are a big driver in the possible push to cheaper labour markets and as a global company, each segment is going to be touched by this. Unfortunately for us, that means Saab too.

I agree with Edu, maintaining design integrity is the key.

6th April 2005, 09:16 PM
Carl Peter Foster, anounced that the restyling of the 9-5 and the 9-6x will be showed at the Frankfurt autoshow(source; autonews)

As in this fall ? And which 9-6X-of-the-week are we gonna see ? ;)

6th April 2005, 10:14 PM
Frankfurt should show a lot of surprises for a lot of Saabfans. Has anyone actually seen the restyled 9-5? Has anyone seen the new 9-6x? Does anyone actually know where the 9-6x came from? :confused:

6th April 2005, 11:57 PM

I'm running a 9-6x category (http://redinterior.typepad.com/trollhattan/96x/index.html) on the blog where I'm keeping all the confirmed reports that have come out.

As I flicked through it just then I was reminded that Subie recently announced that the 2006 version of it's 9-6x source vehicle was going to be named the B9X. At the time it was thought to be a strange move as this would cause some confusion with potential 9-6x purchasers.

If the C&D article is accurate though, it makes more sense.

I'm trying to nail down a definitive answer from Saab as we speak. Not holding my breath for a reply, but you never know. :roll:

7th April 2005, 11:09 PM
It would seem 9-6X is still cleared for takeoff ;oops: from this story:


Maybe the nasty rumors are only referring to European market not getting 9-6X because of incompatible diesel motors for that market, but that N.A. is still getting it, and that the 9-5X is being rushed into production for the global market (global as in "not just American")

7th April 2005, 11:58 PM
Another report that's just come to light that makes it even more confusing is at Inside Line (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=105308). In that report, Suuby intend to export the Tribeca to Europe within a year and are indeed working on diesel and hybrid platforms (though a 4-5 year pipeline is mentioned).

8th April 2005, 09:28 AM
And here's another report that the 9-6x is cancelled, the next 9-3 AND 9-5 are coming off the Epsilon II platform, and there is a Audi A3 fighter in the works (next gen 9-2?)


Confused yet? I sure as heck am.

8th April 2005, 10:09 AM
Maybe it's part of their strategy to confuse us (and the market) and eventually sneak in some potent weapons, er I mean products. After all, the parent SAAB companies are engaged in the military warfare business ..... :cool:

8th April 2005, 10:40 AM
Yeh, they go so far in this diversionary that they even design year or two some product and then laughing switch to another...

8th April 2005, 06:30 PM
I heard from a very good source that the 9.6X is definitely still on and will be available about a year from now.