help a newbie!

[danthegolfer]

hi im almost 17 and i have some money saved up, and im looking to do some performance mods to my 1998 saab 900s. im just tryin to get sum input on what you all think i should do first. being stock, it has the 5 speed 2.3L 4 cylinder engine. what do you guys recommend doing first? im considering first getting the nordic stage 1 upgrade, but i want some input.

oh and i have this other question, its unrealated to the first paragrpah.
it seems whenever i take off, in first or 2nd gear, or maybe even third sumtimes, if i dont feed enough gas or allow the rpm's to drop, i get this ugly sounding clicking noise, u can hear it very clearly with the windows down, but you can even hear it with the windows up... ive not known other manuals to make this sound when under-revved. any ideas on what could be causing this? our mechanic didn't know anything about it.

thanks, dan

[mg_td]

well, being a non turbo, im not certain that a nordic stage one package will do you any good. but a saab sport exhaust, now super cheap, and an intake will help out your performance needs, these are availible from www.genuinesaab.com (http://www.genuinesaab.com)also, to help handling, a rear sway bar, and steering rack clamp and brace will tighten things up quite a bit. the sway bar is a must. itis availible also from the site above, or www.mpperformance.com (http://www.mpperformance.com)

[mg_td]

you can also use the search function to find out more.

[redline514]

The exhaust/intake will help a bit, but it would be hard to do too much to the engine since it isn't a trubo. Your money would be well worth it in the suspension dept. though. If you can't out accelerate em, you may as well drive circles around em. Just my opinion. But I think sway bar is first step for anybody as well. mpperformance.com is the place to go for that. $79. And they have the best customer service around.

[mg_td]

yeah, some spring and shocks as well as that sway bar, some front bushings, and the clamp/brace would do you real well in the handling dept. but a little more power could never hurt, right?

Edit: i almost forgot to mention the strut brace availible from genuine saab or the subframe braces availible. oh there is so much stuff to buy.....

[danthegolfer]

alright ill look at those handling mods

what about the power though? aside from the intake and exhaust, is there anything else i can really do? i dont need my power to go through the roof, im just talking some things i can do to get the extra little kick... thanks

[Marks900SE]

I know theres on guy on here with a N/A and is looking a big numbers and has done alot. You can get into the engine and cams/pistons but that gets into some serious $$. Id look into porting out the head also. N/A's not cheap to tune.

You coud always just throw tones of stickers on your car to give it more power;)

[MightyPirate]

What about a race chip?

[redline514]

Still don't know how much a chip would do or even know if any are available for a N/A.

[mg_td]

i have never heard of an na chip for a saab, most of them, for other makes are just a tiny increase anyway.

[MightyPirate]

i have never heard of an na chip for a saab, most of them, for other makes are just a tiny increase anyway.

There are quite a few in the euro mags, and they do make them for the n/a engines. It'll add roughly 15-20hp for the chip, which considering the price (200-300) isn't a bad gain when updating the cam's for 400 bucks would only add 7 ponies.

[mg_td]

i stand corrected.

[MightyPirate]

http://www.tuningchip.com/
edit:the below information got all screwed up...I'll leave it for someone willing to decipher it, but it was in sweedish anyways.

Saab




Chip
Modell Hk+ Vridmoment ökning Pris Avbetalning 12 mån Saab 9000 LTT 150 hk 75 35% 8700:-* 839:-/mån Saab 9000T Full turbo 50 30% 7400:- 721:-/mån Saab 900 LTT 150 hk 75 35% 8700:-* 839:-/mån Saab 900T Full Turbo 45 30% 7400:- 721:-/mån Saab 9-3 2.0 ej turbo 17 10% 4000:- 412:-/mån Saab 9-3 2.0T 40 25% 7400:- 721:-/mån Saab 9-3 Aero 40 25% 7400:- 721:-/mån Saab 9-5 alla mod 45 25% 7400:- 721:-/mån Saab 9-5 Aero 40 25% 7900:- 766:-/mån * = Inkl. APC-ventil samt slangsats







Avbetalning beräknad på 12 månader 0% ränta. Uppläggningsavgift 275:- tillkommer.

However I don't know much about this specific company.

My friend who races VW's says alot of his friends with Saabs use upsolute race chips for their car.

http://www.upsolute.com/eng/index.html

[Marks900SE]

Ozzy_UK was the one with high plans for his N/A saab.

But he just posted his last post due to moving on to other cars, but you can give him an email if you have questions.

Just search for Ozzy_UK

[MightyPirate]

Ozzy_UK was the one with high plans for his N/A saab.

But he just posted his last post due to moving on to other cars, but you can give him an email if you have questions.

Just search for Ozzy_UK

I just might. If anything I wanna get my car up too about 200hp eventually, if that's even possible with a n/a engine. I think with the chip, plus my current sport exhaust, and then a couple other things I should be close.

I'm just sick of getting left in the dust by my friends GTI, which is a ridiculously fast car (he races, not like "street" races, literal races) combined with it's light weight and it's a real sleeper.

[Asia Skyly]

I just might. If anything I wanna get my car up too about 200hp eventually, if that's even possible with a n/a engine.


Possible? Absolutely. However the difference between the NA and the 2.0Turbo is that what costs just a few hundred in the turbo's requires a lot more on the NA to achieve the same levels of performance. I thought you were a student on a budget? Save your pennies, if you own a Saab you will need them! :)

[MightyPirate]

Possible? Absolutely. However the difference between the NA and the 2.0Turbo is that what costs just a few hundred in the turbo's requires a lot more on the NA to achieve the same levels of performance. I thought you were a student on a budget? Save your pennies, if you own a Saab you will need them! :)

I am, however I have several sources of income coming in, in the next few months. I'm also cutting costs by living in a duplex with a group of friends instead of on campus (saves about $4,500). My friend has all the car detailing equipment, and get's cars sent to him for detailing by several dealershipss. So that alone should pay for our rent at the very minimal. Then I'm working on getting a job where I'll be making roughly $18 an hour, which will go mostly to loans (I want to start paying them down as soon as humanly possible), it'll also go to stuff like food (again cutitng costs simply based on the fact that this is Vermont, and three people in the house hunt), so that should cut the food budget alone in half. And a couple other odd job type deals are falling into place, so that'll be a little extra cash to spend on the car. Because I do wanna keep this car for awhile, so I'd like it to be how I want.

[redline514]

I'm just curious, what made you get the N/A in the first place? Not to stereotype too much but a lot of the younger guys only like Saabs for the turbo. I know not all of them, but a lot do. Was it a really go deal? Or a hand-me-down? Or was it something that you are kicking yourself for now? Just curious...

[MightyPirate]

I'm just curious, what made you get the N/A in the first place? Not to stereotype too much but a lot of the younger guys only like Saabs for the turbo. I know not all of them, but a lot do. Was it a really go deal? Or a hand-me-down? Or was it something that you are kicking yourself for now? Just curious...

A turbo is just one more thing to break. Also because my father is a **** up and got a DUI last year my insurance alone is about $2300 for a whole year with JUST reliabilty on the 900S, it'd be significantly higher on the turbo. Also I've heard alot of issues with Saab turbos leaking, and other issues with them. I figured I couldn't afford to **** around with a turbo.

[redline514]

gotcha, sounds like you got this well thought out.

[CleveSaab]

Actually in the US a turbo is NOT really much more to insure.
In fact, my insurance went DOWN when I dumped my older NA for a newer Turbo.
You probably should have got one. Doesn't sound like you're looking to get GOBS of power. The stock 185HP (auto) may actually have been ENOUGH power for you. Then you could spend your money on handling and tint. :cool:

[Saaboheme]

Well yes. There are multiple flaws in the underlying reasoning.

1) The turbos have a remarkably low failure rate, which is even lower when you filter out the people who think changing the oil more than once for the duration of their ownership is anal-retentive behavior;
2) If dad's omvi is negatively affecting your rate, then you must both be covered by the same policy. So have you explored the possibility of getting your own insurance? If you are not covered by the same policy as dad and his omvi is jacking up your rates, have you contacted a lawyer specializing in HUGE class action lawsuits? (If you are not of the age to contract and must be on a policy with one of your parents, what about you and mom going in on your own policy and let dad hang out on his sub-standard carrier until he is again eligible for standard rates?)
3) The cost of insurance is not very dependent on the presence of a turbo (As pointed out by CleveSaab):
The primary factors are age, sex, marital status and driving record of the owner/principal driver (in general, older drivers, up to a point, get a better rate as it is presumed that with age comes temperance and prudence of judgment, OR vehicular Darwinism (natural selection) has culled the herd of the idiots and if you are still around then you must be a good driver); (in general girls and women will have better rates due to less testosterone - not as aggressive and less prone to road rage and vehicular homicidal tendencies); (Married raises the presumption that you have matured and have every thing to live for (?????) and so are less reckless, and this goes double if you have kids); (driving record should speak for itself - recent speeding tickets, FTY, OMVI, reckless op, accidents and vehicle damage claims, etc. all alert the insurance company that you are not to be trusted with a car and that if you want insurance you should be fleeced); the geographic location where the car is driven (compare New York City and LA to Gary, IN or Marion, OH for instance); the prevalence/popularity of the vehicle (more units sold = more likely the car will be targeted by thieves and sprited away to a chop shop); the presence and effectiveness of the safety equipment on the vehicle [whether such devices are present which will decrease the likelihood of a serious injury to the driver and/or passenger(s)]; the average estimated repair costs to the vehicle post-accident (including parts costs); and the credit record of the insured.
Yes you heard me correctly. Insurance companies have discovered a factor to use in their equations which has absolutely nothing to do with likelihood of accidents or actual loss. This little factor may often allow them to jack up the rate on 40 year male married with two young children, a perfect driving record, who dwells in a rural locale. So a guy who, under all criteria which serve to predict fairly accurately how much risk the insurance company is truly carrying, can be effectively negated by a single financial criterion which has absolutely zero, nil, nada, zilch to do therewith. Sometimes I wonder why the gummamint doesn't just give these craven jackals a truck load of federal reserve paper, plates and a printing press so they can just skip the pretense of providing something to society in return for the oceans of profits they pillage.
So, anyway, insurance will always cost, but the turbo will have a pretty insignificant effect on the premium.
Now, with the belief system altered due to the above, factor in the relative approximate cost per pony gained for a turbo vs. a non-turbo. To get real world N/A hp gains you absolutely must go inside the motor. Not just P&P the head, but cams and probably pistons to raise the compression ratio properly (rather than improperly by simply shaving the bejeezus off of the head). Do these things right (and what the heck toss in a three angle valve job while your'e in there), add a properly tuned header that matches the cam profiles and advance the timing to the degree allowed by the compression ratio you selected, and your 2.3 can put out 200 relaible hp. Odds are it will be a little less street tractable than a 230 hp turbo. It will be raspy raucous loud (header and free flow exhaust) with a loping irregular idle (aggressive cams) and depending upon how you tuned, not torquey enough down low or wheezing well short of red line. This is really fun stuff to do actually but labor intensive and not recommended for relative novices. Therefore costs increase exponentially as the experience of the project owner decreases.
I learned first hand that there is nothing more migratory than the United States 100 dollar bill as I watched these suckers fly out of my wallet like bats out of (yeah that's right) when I rodded my first N/A motor.
Forced induction is a great way to squeeze hp out of small displacement motors. It explains why nitrous is still around, and turbos and superchargers are not extinct, but rather becoming more prevalent than ever before. They may not be ubiquitous, but I know that having had turbo and non-turbo, I will never go back to N/A. [And as for reliability, I have 143,000 mi on the original turbo which is bolted to a highly modified engine].
None of this is condemnatory of the N/A Saabs. I have had many and loved them all. But it was harder to modify them without going major internal, and my goal was to always have them be streetable too. Also, you young guys remember this: When you are taking Suzy home some night, well past her curfew, do you really want to make her mom and dad's job that much easier by sounding like a re-enactment of the Battle of Britain from three miles away?
Turn Up Radio. Blast Off.

[busaboy]

Wow, Saaboheme - too much coffee, today?

[Asia Skyly]

Hehehe, that was a fun read! :) But that was certainly more than the average thread! :p My reading quota for the day is now done, thank Saaboheme! :cheesy: :lol: BTW her name is Peggy Sue not Suzy! Although Suzy is also hot! :)

[roadkil34]

Well, after 20 minutes of reading (thanks Saaboheme, youre the man!) i feel my reasons for having bought a turbo reinforced. Thats not to say that you cant go into the engine if you have a turbo, it just helps that little bit more after you reach the stock internals limit ( lets be conservative and say 300 hp). But, this is much more power than off of a N/A motor. By this point on an n/a 2.3 liter youre running a decent sized shot of nitrous coupled with a higher compression built motor, which could cost you well over 2-3 thousand dollars for the motor alone, not even including supporting mods(suspension and other goodies). To get to 280 on a turbo 5spd all it takes is about 1500 bucks. Thats pretty nice, if i do say so myself. In addition, this is all done while keeping the car just as streetable (except for torque steer and wheel spin and what have you) as the car was stock, while the n/a counterpart would be just as Saaboheme described it.

[redline514]

I never doubted getting my turbo in the first place...but I liked the read as well. Insurance is a black art!