9-3 SportCombi Pricing and Possible NEW Lines [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: 9-3 SportCombi Pricing and Possible NEW Lines


SaabKen
15th February 2005, 11:34 AM
From today's CarConnection. Wished they launch it earlier in summer.

Then there's: "Even more new lines may follow, Kelly-Ennis hinted, though she declined to go into detail." Hmmm ...... Sonett ? 9-9 luxo flagship ?

Maybe they can put lots of makeup on Roger Daltry and make him look Swedish :cheesy:



Saab Preview SportCombi, New Ads

http://www.thecarconnection.com/images/gallery/tmb/9138_image.jpgSaab will a new 9-3 wagon to its fast-growing lineup, officials announced during a sneak preview in Detroit on Monday. The SportCombi won't get its official public debut until the Geneva Motor Show, next month, but the Swedish automaker decided to lift the covers a few weeks ahead of time as part of a broader show-and-tell session.

To be priced "well under" $30,000, Saab hopes the SportCombi will ride a wave of rising interest in station wagons. "Things like the (Dodge) Magnum are sparking a wagon revival, and this (SportCombi) could take off," said Sean McNamara, head of marketing in the U.S. On the low side, officials with Saab Cars USA believe the wagon could account for about ten percent of 9-3 model sales, or about 2500 units annually. But in Europe, where wagons are the hot body style, the SportCombi could top 50 percent.

The new wagon, which hits market as a 2006 model next autumn, is part of a broader effort by Saab to flesh out its thin lineup. Under pressure to firm up its balance sheet, and hoping to build a clearer image with consumers, "We have to have the products to back that up," said Debra Kelly-Ennis, President of Saab Cars USA. Long limited to two main product lines, the automaker launched the sporty new 9-2X last year, and it has the 9-7X sport-utility vehicle on tap, as well. An all-new version of Saab's flagship 9-5 will debut early in 2006. And a crossover vehicle, to be called the 9-6X, is also in the works. Even more new lines may follow, Kelly-Ennis hinted, though she declined to go into detail.

The product blitz also includes a new engine, a 2.8-liter turbo V-6 making 250 hp and 258 lb-ft of torque. That's about 19 percent more power than the current Saab 9-3 engine. The all-aluminum powerplant is the latest spinoff of General Motors' Global Engine Family, though it has been slightly modified to handle the added power and heat of a turbocharger. That includes special pistons and sodium-filled exhaust valves. With the new V-6, the SportCombi should turn in 0-60 times of about 8.5 seconds, according to Saab engineers.

As part of its so-called "Plan for Action," long-struggling Saab is launching a series of new commercials designed to differentiate the brand from more mainstream products. It pitches the Swedish brand as what Kelly-Ennis called, "the antidote to sameness." The TV portion of the campaign will be built around the well-known song by the Who, "I'm Free," which originally debuted as part of the rock-opera Tommy. The Saab executive suggested her company is upping its ad budget to support all the new products coming to its lineup — though she refused to reveal details — and is shifting more resources away from network TV towards cable, print, and Internet marketing. — Paul A. Eisenstein

Grimace
15th February 2005, 05:25 PM
That's funny, I've been singing "I'm Free" a lot in the shower recently. Must be some kind of a sign.

:o

SaabKen
15th February 2005, 09:55 PM
That's funny, I've been singing "I'm Free" a lot in the shower recently. Must be some kind of a sign. :o


And it's a good thing Saab's new campaign isn't using "Free Fallin'" by Tom Petty. That was perhaps more apt for Aztek losses :cheesy:

spaceghost
17th February 2005, 01:39 AM
With the new V-6, the SportCombi should turn in 0-60 times of about 8.5 seconds, according to Saab engineers.


.......ouch. a turbo v6........8.5 seconds to 60.........:confused:

although......i think its gorgeous

squishmann
17th February 2005, 01:58 AM
.......ouch. a turbo v6........8.5 seconds to 60.........:confused:

although......i think its gorgeous

i thought that was kinda slow too. maybe they were timing it in the snow

saabfan
17th February 2005, 03:07 AM
i thought that was kinda slow too. maybe they were timing it in the snow
I know that it's not all about 0-60... but, please, that's pathetic.

Does Saab really expect to attract more customers with 0-60 times like that? It would get beaten by several SUVs.

If Saab wants to become mainstream, they are going to have to give their cars features that mainstream buyers want.

Johnnydel
17th February 2005, 03:14 PM
.......ouch. a turbo v6........8.5 seconds to 60.........:confused:

although......i think its gorgeous

Well one of the reasons this car is NOT blindingly fast is because it isn't the twin turbo V-6 we were hoping for. Worse than the old V-6 which used one bank of three cylinders to power the turbo this car only uses two cylinders total. Not that people who want to make serious power won't throw away this single turbo and replace it with dual turbos, its to bad they didn't do it from the outset.

The information below is directly from the Saab/GM media website.

All engines in the global V-6 family share traits that include a lightweight aluminum cylinder block with iron cylinder sleeves, an aluminum structural oil pan and aluminum cylinder heads with four valves per cylinder. The 2.8L V-6 Turbo builds on those strengths with components and technology developed specifically for the turbo system.
The turbo system features a unique, twin-scroll turbocharger. It has an integral bypass valve and is fed by two exhaust ducts – one from each cylinder bank. Separating the exhaust gas pulses with two compressor zones improves gas flow and reduces energy loss. The turbo system’s charge cooler promotes performance by reducing the temperature of inlet air.

93Linear
18th February 2005, 10:49 AM
Well one of the reasons this car is NOT blindingly fast is because it isn't the twin turbo V-6 we were hoping for. Worse than the old V-6 which used one bank of three cylinders to power the turbo this car only uses two cylinders total. Not that people who want to make serious power won't throw away this single turbo and replace it with dual turbos, its to bad they didn't do it from the outset.

The information below is directly from the Saab/GM media website.

All engines in the global V-6 family share traits that include a lightweight aluminum cylinder block with iron cylinder sleeves, an aluminum structural oil pan and aluminum cylinder heads with four valves per cylinder. The 2.8L V-6 Turbo builds on those strengths with components and technology developed specifically for the turbo system.
The turbo system features a unique, twin-scroll turbocharger. It has an integral bypass valve and is fed by two exhaust ducts – one from each cylinder bank. Separating the exhaust gas pulses with two compressor zones improves gas flow and reduces energy loss. The turbo system’s charge cooler promotes performance by reducing the temperature of inlet air.

Sorry, but I think you need to re-read what you posted. It clearly says "... a unique, twin-scroll turbocharger. It has an integral bypass valve and is fed by two exhaust ducts – one from each cylinder bank. Separating the exhaust gas pulses with two compressor zones improves gas flow and reduces energy loss." The turbo is being fed by all 6 cylinders ... twin-scroll, so ... each side catches exhaust pulses from 3 cylinders (for a total of 6) and both spin a single turbine.

Also, I'm just curious here ... everyone seems to be stuck with peak numbers. I know this is the common American mentality (I was raised Chevy muscle car), but what gives?
Why is no one talking about the increased (widened) torque band we should be getting from the V6? Or how the engine will not have to work as hard to reach those peak numbers? Or how the overall driveability and smoothness of operation should increase with this engine? And 0-60 times ???? PUH-leeze!! Saab has never been and never will be a 0-60 kinda car. It is built and geared to excel on the highway. If you want to haul azz to 60 as fast as you can, buy a dragster; if you want to cruise in style and flat-out know you can pull off that high-speed merge, buy a Saab.

Also, let's be honest about those peak numbers and look at what we know about Saab's history. 1) The 9-5 is still the flagship; this engine (for the 9-3 line) will be released with numbers that do not threaten the 9-5 ..... 2) This is the first year/application of this engine by Saab; historically Saab puts reliability just as high or higher than performance ... we are not going to see the peak performance this engine is capable of (from the factory) until it is more proven ..... 3) There are Saab tuners who will be alllllllll over this thing with upgrades

I say ... give it a chance ... drive one before you judge based solely on quoted numbers ... and see what comes out of the tuner community to make this mother scream!

SaabKen
18th February 2005, 11:28 AM
Well said, 93Linear ! :D

Raven18940
18th February 2005, 12:01 PM
Also, I'm just curious here ... everyone seems to be stuck with peak numbers. I know this is the common American mentality (I was raised Chevy muscle car), but what gives?
Why is no one talking about the increased (widened) torque band we should be getting from the V6? Or how the engine will not have to work as hard to reach those peak numbers? Or how the overall driveability and smoothness of operation should increase with this engine? And 0-60 times ???? PUH-leeze!! Saab has never been and never will be a 0-60 kinda car. It is built and geared to excel on the highway. If you want to haul azz to 60 as fast as you can, buy a dragster; if you want to cruise in style and flat-out know you can pull off that high-speed merge, buy a Saab.

I get what you're saying, but my 9-5 aero with 230 hp, 258lb-ft, 5spd, and a over all heavier car can hit 60 in under 7 seconds and this was the first year, detuned model as the new ones have 250hp. The torque curve is absolutely great, flat at 258lb-ft from 2000 to 4000 rpms. This thing is bigger and supposed to have an even better torque curve. Did they make that 60 run with a dozen bags of sand in the trunk? What is the deal? The current 9-3 aero can hit 60 in 6.9seconds. Oh no, maybe it's an auto!

I agree tha 0-60 and peak numbers don't tell the whole story, but a type r civic is faster than this. :(

93Linear
18th February 2005, 12:25 PM
I get what you're saying, but my 9-5 aero with 230 hp, 258lb-ft, 5spd, and a over all heavier car can hit 60 in under 7 seconds and this was the first year, detuned model as the new ones have 250hp. The torque curve is absolutely great, flat at 258lb-ft from 2000 to 4000 rpms. This thing is bigger and supposed to have an even better torque curve. Did they make that 60 run with a dozen bags of sand in the trunk? What is the deal? The current 9-3 aero can hit 60 in 6.9seconds. Oh no, maybe it's an auto!

I agree tha 0-60 and peak numbers don't tell the whole story, but a type r civic is faster than this. :(

I would imagine the Civic being at least ... what? ... 1500 lbs lighter would play into the equation also ... not really fair comparing a factory-built, lightweight performance vehicle (I know it's a Civic, but that is a serious VTEC motor you are talking about) to a wagon. And, I'll say it again, Saab's aren't 0-60 cars ... wanna make it interesting? ... find the 40-80 accelration times for the Civic and compare those to the Saab.

Raven18940
18th February 2005, 12:37 PM
I'd love to, but what will it prove here? All we have is that rather pathetic 0-60 time and know other useful stats to go by.

93Linear
18th February 2005, 12:53 PM
Exactly ... we have nothing to go on ...

Kinda hard to start meaningfully talk about how bad or good the engine is or isn't at this point ... What were the conditions for testing? Is this an automatic that was tested? Are there other transmission offerings? How is the car geared? Is Saab intentionally holding back power in lower gears to prevent wheelspin?

Clearly this vehichle isn't meant for stoplight racing ... I'm fine with that ... let's see what we can find out about highway performance, 3rd/4th/5th acceleration, repeatability of peak numbers, top speed and such before we say it's crap because it can't get you to the next red light faster than dozens of ricey racers ....

And just so everyone knows and is clear on the fact ... my last car was a Civic. I'm not just sitting here taking an anti-Japanese stance. I love those cars too, but comparing them to Saabs is an "apples & oranges" proposition.

Johnnydel
18th February 2005, 01:52 PM
Sorry, but I think you need to re-read what you posted. It clearly says "... a unique, twin-scroll turbocharger. It has an integral bypass valve and is fed by two exhaust ducts – one from each cylinder bank. Separating the exhaust gas pulses with two compressor zones improves gas flow and reduces energy loss." The turbo is being fed by all 6 cylinders ... twin-scroll, so ... each side catches exhaust pulses from 3 cylinders (for a total of 6) and both spin a single turbine.

Also, I'm just curious here ... everyone seems to be stuck with peak numbers. I know this is the common American mentality (I was raised Chevy muscle car), but what gives?
Why is no one talking about the increased (widened) torque band we should be getting from the V6? Or how the engine will not have to work as hard to reach those peak numbers? Or how the overall driveability and smoothness of operation should increase with this engine? And 0-60 times ???? PUH-leeze!! Saab has never been and never will be a 0-60 kinda car. It is built and geared to excel on the highway. If you want to haul azz to 60 as fast as you can, buy a dragster; if you want to cruise in style and flat-out know you can pull off that high-speed merge, buy a Saab.

Also, let's be honest about those peak numbers and look at what we know about Saab's history. 1) The 9-5 is still the flagship; this engine (for the 9-3 line) will be released with numbers that do not threaten the 9-5 ..... 2) This is the first year/application of this engine by Saab; historically Saab puts reliability just as high or higher than performance ... we are not going to see the peak performance this engine is capable of (from the factory) until it is more proven ..... 3) There are Saab tuners who will be alllllllll over this thing with upgrades

I say ... give it a chance ... drive one before you judge based solely on quoted numbers ... and see what comes out of the tuner community to make this mother scream!

Ok I stand corrected, I must have read into thinking along the lines of the old V-6. I also understand peak HP vs Torque but with other mfg's coming out with NA V-6 that punch out that same # or more I was hoping that they would debut with something with a bigger wow factor. Just like you said most americans are looking at just the "Numbers" but with that being the fact they need to start drawing in the market that they want to sell the car to.

I will say I do like the look of the car and we are looking at a wagon but for size we will most likely purchase a 9-5 Aero Combi. I don't mind having a 4 banger, I know a lot of people are looking for the smoothness of a larger engine but the power that a B234 is capable of putting out is plenty for me.

Also like you said about the tuners having a field day they sure will. I wish that we in America could get Hirsch or Nordic products at the dealership for the new car. Hopefully someone will figure out that we will buy modified vehicles from the dealer.

In closing just remeber this motor has been used in import drag racing and with twin turbos is developing something between 1200 - 1400 hp. Not that you could get that to the ground. Maybe Per Eklund will make a monster of a Pikes Peak car based on the new motor.

SaabKen
18th February 2005, 06:15 PM
I would imagine the Civic being at least ... what? ... 1500 lbs lighter would play into the equation also ... not really fair comparing a factory-built, lightweight performance vehicle (I know it's a Civic, but that is a serious VTEC motor you are talking about) to a wagon. And, I'll say it again, Saab's aren't 0-60 cars ... wanna make it interesting? ... find the 40-80 accelration times for the Civic and compare those to the Saab.


Not only that, Saabs are cars designed and built to be ultra-fast and safe long-distance cruisers. Try doing 90mph/140kph all day while getting high 20s miles per gallon in a safe, serene yet driver-oriented environment. Saabs are designed like Bimmers, M-Bs and Audis that love the autobahn. When I'm doing +150kph my passengers and I may as be going at 50kph because that's how quiet and stable the car feels :p

LinearSLT
20th February 2005, 01:09 PM
C'mon folks. In the 25 years I've been driving Saabs and the 30 years I've been paying attention to the brand, I've never seen Saab engineers give a 0-60 time that was even remotely correct. Launched the way magazine testers do it, most Saabs seem to do 1.5-2 sec better than the Saab specs. So expect 7s or better for 0-60 and a nice broad torque plateau.

I just wish it had awd, but actually, I don't miss that on my 9-3SS with all it's traction aids. Yes, this is the car I've been waiting for !

TC
22nd February 2005, 05:14 PM
posted by saabken

To be priced "well under" $30,000,

If this is really going to be priced well under 30K it certainly will be a value leader in the small near lux wagon category. I think the 0-60 time of 8.5 must be a mistake for a 250hp v6 unless there is some serious turbo lag.

Buddhabman
22nd February 2005, 08:01 PM
Like the looks, but I am really disappointed with no AWD. NOT GOOD. :evil:

93Linear
23rd February 2005, 11:32 AM
Seems they are saving AWD for the new 9-5 ...

Johnnydel
24th February 2005, 09:00 AM
Well I don't think SAAB is going to throw one of these in a car, but at least it shows the engines potential.



http://www.domesticcrew.com/colin/colin/gmv6.jpg

http://www.domesticcrew.com/colin/colin/gmv6tt.jpg

SaabKen
24th February 2005, 11:38 AM
Sure, why not ? :cheesy: