Stage 4 - Oh my god! [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Stage 4 - Oh my god!


Chris 9-5
2nd October 2004, 01:18 PM
This morining I had a Maptun Stage 2 (230 bhp), this evening I have a BSR Stage 4 (265 bhp) 8)

Initial thoughts:

1. Its more noisey in a nice growly kinda way.
2. It pulls with less pedal movement and gave better economy on the return trip.
3. It feels more responsive, probably as the turbo lag has been reduced by the 3" downpipe and race cat.
4. It rained sadly, so I havent really played, but its a very nice upgrade indeed.
5. Really glad I upgraded the suspension and brakes first :wink:

Cant believe I had a 150 bhp car to start with, Saab should make them all like this :cheesy:

Kermit
2nd October 2004, 03:47 PM
Hehehe, this morning i had a boggo 150bhp, this evening i have 230bhp courtesy of Chris and Maptun. Once i bed the brake pads in i might try the "S" button if i feel brave enough. :suprised; A big thanks to Chris for his generosity, and to Wes at Nottingham Saab for his expertise and sensible prices. I'll definately be using Nottingham Saab in future and would recommend him to anybody. :cheesy:

Chris 9-5
2nd October 2004, 04:22 PM
Considering my local garage took three days to fit a fuel pump, (which Wes eventually supplied as they couldn't even source one), it was amazing to watch three 9-5's get totally transformed in just a few hours!

Top recommendation, and a nice Guy too :)

PS Glad you are happy Kermit, me too :wink:

Chris 9-5
3rd October 2004, 12:06 PM
Further observations!

The BSR Stage 4 is easier to drive fast than the Maptun Stage 2 was! :o

The addition of the 3" down pipe and race cat with the larger turbo has almost eliminated any lag in the throttle / turbo / auto box response. So immediately you can feel how much traction you have rather than have to wait for the thump in the back and hang on for the torque steer. :-?

I actually believe this upgrade if driven the same way will put less strain on the engine and gearbox as its instant, rather than a half second lag and a burst of power, its certainly safer to drive and wheel spin is far more controllable (or avoidable)! 8)

Anyone know where I can get a larger delivery pipe or alloy intercooler that cheaper than Abbott?

Stage 5 here we come :lol:

XAAMOTTOMAAX
3rd October 2004, 01:37 PM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7925159600&category=38634&sspagename=WDVW

Kermit
3rd October 2004, 04:49 PM
Thought i'd try the S mode today. 4 cars to overtake in 100 yards before dual carriageway narrowed to one lane. Pushed the S button floored the throttle and flew past with 40 yards to spare. Look at speedo, oopps 1??mph, better slow down :nono; Looked at my friend next to me, he had a grin like a cheshire cat and just said "bloody hell". :cheesy:

Chris 9-5
3rd October 2004, 04:59 PM
Looked at my friend next to me, he had a grin like a cheshire cat and just said "bl**dy hell". :cheesy:

:cheesy: lol :cheesy:

hildebird
4th October 2004, 01:04 PM
I just looked at the blurb for the delivery pipe on the ebay link. The seller claims 'made of stainless steel because it has 200% better cooling ability than aluminium'
B@ll@CKS!
a quick look at any materials textbook will tell you that stainless steel (of any grade) is a far worse conductor of heat than aluminium.

It makes you wonder about the seller's other claims, doesn't it?

Chris 9-5
4th October 2004, 03:19 PM
I just looked at the blurb for the delivery pipe on the ebay link. The seller claims 'made of stainless steel because it has 200% better cooling ability than aluminium'
B@ll@CKS!
a quick look at any materials textbook will tell you that stainless steel (of any grade) is a far worse conductor of heat than aluminium.

It makes you wonder about the seller's other claims, doesn't it?

Oh dear :( They do look nice though :cheesy:

XAAMOTTOMAAX
4th October 2004, 06:04 PM
By no means am I an expert in thermal dynamics but doesnt the fact that aluminum is a better conductor of heat than SS mean more heat is allowed through the aluminum, passing from the engine bay to the intake air inside the pipe? We are not looking to let heat escape the pipe but to prevent heat from soaking into the pipe from the engine bay. If I am backwards with my logic let me know.

Chris 9-5
4th October 2004, 06:41 PM
That makes sense to me, we want lower temp air delivered, maybe they just got the script wrong in the ad?

Just re read it I think they are referring to its poorer conductivity of heat, which would be a benefit in this application.

Most of the later cars seemed to have a plastic intake pipe, even Abbott go back to metal with their upgrade. :-?

dip
4th October 2004, 06:47 PM
Stage 5 here we come :lol:
Do you change the ATF often? I really want to see how the auto box will stand the power increase. Keep us posted. I'm hesitant to go beyond my stage 2 for now.

Chris 9-5
4th October 2004, 06:56 PM
Dip I wrote almost the same concern when my pal had it fitted to his 9-5 auto, but in a year he had no problems.

Me feeling so far is that the engine and gearbox feel less strained, the kick down is less harsh, but we'll see! I dont drive the car hard but have a fixed grin now that I know what its capable of :lol:

I will probably change the ATF annually :wink:

Hirsch Aero
4th October 2004, 07:41 PM
He He I know why you both (Kermit / 9-5) can not stop smiling
Re the rain look at as a benefit it means your tyres will last longer :cheesy:

Adrian W
4th October 2004, 07:55 PM
"I just looked at the blurb for the delivery pipe on the ebay link. The seller claims 'made of stainless steel because it has 200% better cooling ability than aluminium'
B@ll@CKS!
a quick look at any materials textbook will tell you that stainless steel (of any grade) is a far worse conductor of heat than aluminium."

Yeah, as has been said, I think they just stated that wrong. Stainless steel piping.

What's worse is that they even got the numbers wrong. :lol:

Coefficient of Thermal Conductivity in BTU/(ft-hr-F) @ 70F degrees:

Aluminum 6061 T6: 96.50
Aluminum 6061 O: 104.00 (tubing can only be mandrel bent in the "O" condition)

Mild Steel 1010: 26.98

304 Stainless (annealed): 9.40
321 Stainless (annealed): 9.30

Titanium Grade 2 (ASTM B): 12.00

Inconel Alloy 625: 5.65


So in reality stainless steel insulates TEN TIMES BETTER than Aluminum! (1,000%) (T5 owners, remember that when you look at that aluminum tubing under your hood!)

Stainless also is nearl three times better insulator than mild steel, which is why you do not have to heat wrap stainless exhaust parts to increase gas flow.

Adrian~

Stefano
4th October 2004, 09:04 PM
So in reality stainless steel insulates TEN TIMES BETTER than Aluminum! (1,000%) (T5 owners, remember that when you look at that aluminum tubing under your hood!)

Stainless also is nearl three times better insulator than mild steel, which is why you do not have to heat wrap stainless exhaust parts to increase gas flow.

Adrian~

All true. But I always thought that air coming out of the IC was hotter anyway than the air in the engine bay, so that a aluminum delivery pipe was better than steel (and that SS steel was the worst).

What's a belivable temperature fo the air just out of the IC? 80C? I thought the engine bay was cooler than that.

Adrian W
4th October 2004, 09:35 PM
At it's hottest the air coming out the intercooler is roughly 160F or thereabouts.

But it's nowhere near that when you first start accellerating. During the first few seconds it can be 113F or lower, which is much cooler than the relatively high underhood temps.

The intake pipe before the turbo should always be insulated, and the stock one being made of aluminum isn't exactly ideal.

Adrian~

hildebird
5th October 2004, 09:03 AM
Sorry to hijack your 'stage 4' thread, Chris, but.....

Adrian, I remain to be convinced about the high underbonnet temperatures in chilly northern Europe. I'm sure the insulated intake could be a benefit in California, but I'm not lagging mine until I've proved the benefit.

If there is a universal benefit, then why don't Saab just use lagged pipes as standard? As a manufacturer already using plastic pipes (on a 9-5) it would be fairly easy to specify a foam coated pipe, but they don't, suggesting to me that it isn't really a great benefit.

I will try to borrow a datalogger and prove one way or the other if it works on my car/my local weather.

Back on track.....
Chris, what extra components do you get for 'stage 4' if 3 is already ECU/exhaust/downpipe?

XAAMOTTOMAAX
5th October 2004, 12:57 PM
No worries on the trans. The 4 speed auto is a pretty tough box and has held up just fine in tuned Aeros.

Kermit
5th October 2004, 01:45 PM
Think i'm right in saying stage 4 is 3" downpipe for quicker spooling up, a TD04 turbo upgrade, and a 3" bore exhaust with a race cat. 8)

Chris 9-5
5th October 2004, 02:05 PM
According to the speedparts website the stage 3 has a 2.5" exhaust, sport cat, ecu, injectors & sport air filter.

The Stage 4 moves up to a 3" exhaust and race cat and the Mitsu TD04 (Aero) turbo, as Kermit says plus the larger turbo intake pipe!

Kermit as you have the larger turbo intake too yours must be a Stage 2.5 at least :cheesy:

I am still amazed how effortlessly it performs, less gear changes & more beefy growl 8)

Kermit
6th October 2004, 06:33 PM
Chris, off the top of your head, what is the torque rating of the Maptun stage 2?

Chris 9-5
6th October 2004, 07:03 PM
Saab 9-5 2.0t
150 Hp/240 Nm Original

Stage 2 (MapTun)
230 Hp/350 Nm 8)

Stage 4 (BSR)
265 Hp/415 Nm :cheesy:

Torque may well be adjusted for the auto box :wink: