: Just removed the front anti roll bar.
4th August 2002, 05:47 AM
And as I expected from doing it before on a previous 900T16 it's an improvement in all areas.The car is much more neutral when pushed into a corner - I'm not fighting understeer and making unsettling steering corrections. It grips better and as I'm running stiffer springs and good shocks I've not noticed an increase in roll. Over rough roads it's a much smoother ride - it does'nt do a 'twist and shake' when one wheel hits a bump or pothole. I know I could sort out understeer with geometrey changes to the front but it's expensive and tricky to mess with the upper A arm shims and bolts and this was a 1/2 hour job and easily reverisible ( though I wont be putting it back) Anyone else done this?
4th August 2002, 03:43 PM
Did you actually remove the ARB from the car, or just tie the loose ends up out of the way.
5th August 2002, 02:19 AM
Pulled the whole thing including brackets and bushes. It's a bit of a squeeze and it will only come out on the drivers side. The more I drive it the more I like it!
5th August 2002, 05:26 AM
Hi johann F,
Have you tried it out on a duel carridge way/motorway to see how it handles at speed?
When i replaced end ARB bushes with poly, it made quite a big difference when driving at 80-100+. The steering was more stable/ firmer and overall felt safer at those speeds, i'd be interested to hear how you find it.
5th August 2002, 06:30 AM
Not been over 70 yet - the bushes were pretty new when I took them off as well.
Eric van Spelde
5th August 2002, 07:15 AM
As my '85 900T did not feature any roll bars I came from the opposite side - added the stock rear T16S bar _after_ doing everything else (springs, shocks, wheels/tyres, alignment, poly shock bushings). Driven -almost- back to back with standard T16S models I fully agree with Johann. Understeer vanished, front end grip almost scary fro a FWD car. Could exit a 2nd gear curve with boost gauge needle at 3 o' clock, the inside wheel spinning, but the outside one (as well as the car :wink: tenaciously holding its line.
Car felt utterly stable at all speeds, but then again with the #6 priomary drive I could only reach about 212 km/h (132ish mph, speedo at 225 km/h) before hitting the rev limiter...
17th August 2002, 11:38 AM
Is it illegal to remove something from the suspension? ie MOT failure etc?
Also, should I tell my insurance company?
What's the body roll like without a front ARB?
17th August 2002, 02:32 PM
The roll bar is an add on option - some cars have it some don't and there's no MOT rule says you have to have one and no way a tester could tell if it had one originaly. I wouldn't bother telling your insurance company -I can't see how it can affect the premium -something that improves grip and steering predictability has got to make you less likely to have an accident :D After driving some time now I have definatley not noticed any increase in roll. As long as your shocks and springs are in good shape there should not be a problem with body roll on a Saab 900 - if you are getting body roll - don't think adding a roll bar will sort it out - springs and shocks are the priority for good all round handling.
19th August 2002, 11:51 AM
I'm wondering why they put the anti-roll bars in the front as well as rear in the 900 Aero, if no anti-roll bar in the front is better. Surely there's some reason Saab started using these in the c900?
At first, Saab engineers claimed that no anti-roll bars are needed if a chassis is well-sorted, but, later, Saab started offering these bars, and later still. they became standard.
So front anti-roll bar is a bad thing, should I remove mine then? It just sounds a little strange, since in most cases people install these bars to IMPROVE handling in cars that haven't got them as standard, and even replace OE bars with thicker ones as an upgrading act. What's with the Saab front bar then?
19th August 2002, 12:42 PM
A number of things have crossed my mind on this - Saab may have just been responding to customer perceptions i.e a 'sporting' model has to have an anti roll bar or customers will be put off? Many people who want to add a roll bar ( read the questions on any BB) complain about roll and think this will sort it out - a C900 with good shocks and springs does not roll :! - many people however are running about with 12+ year old shocks and springs that are way past their best - no wonder they are getting roll on corners! The more I drive mine without the front bar the more I like it - you just feel more connected with the road and more in control - try it :D
Eric van Spelde
19th August 2002, 12:43 PM
Surely there's some reason Saab started using these in the c900?
Sure. it's called 'reducing body lean without having to resort to stiffer springs/shocks which would be unacceptable to Mr. Fat Cat who just traded in his Jag for a T16S'... :wink:
As for bigger aftermarket bars - in these cases the it's the rear one that gets bigger vs. the front in order to make the car handle more neutral - something you can do just as well -and without adding unsprung weight - by removing the front bar and retaining the stock rear, but of course you can't charge people anything for taking things away... :wink:
It's the same kind of marketing game that spwawns cars like a 450 hp, 1.9 tonne Audi RS6 and makes a possible BMW M3 CSL not so viable from an economical point of view: you can give your customer 50 or 100 or 200 extra hp and they'll happily pay the premium. However removing weight from the car (by deleting unneccesary items and using high tech materials) whilst retaining a given engine output would be the better thing to do from an engineering standpoint - only how do you convince the public to pay 'more' for 'less'?
19th August 2002, 12:54 PM
Good point Eric - I also remember when Audi brought out a turbo 4cylinder a while back but deliberatley restricted it's output so it wouldn't perform better than the more expensive V6 models.
21st August 2002, 11:56 AM
so say i take the ARB out ok great now i have a sense of feel with the road providing i have good shocks and springs its a spg i think the springs are fine shocks could use a redo thats later.Taking the ARB out does it handle well at high speeds i enjoy the c900 ability to weave through unseen objects in the road path and wouldn't want to take it away i don't say that i regularly travel at 70+ (the law frowns upon that) i just want some sort of a feel before it is attempted.
21st August 2002, 02:17 PM
Mines rock steady at speed - but speed stability has a lot to do with the other factors - shocks being high on the list. The condition of the rear suspension bushes is vital for speed stability if they are worn they flex and the rear end actualy steers ! - very noticable in crosswinds.
BTW if the shocks are original from 1987 - they are shot trust me.
26th August 2002, 01:21 PM
Well, I was just about to head off to the junkyard to salvage a couple ARBs off a trashed 900 for my pre-87 with none. I guess I'm a little skeptical; does anyone have any differing opinions on this subject? You guys really think just the rear is the way to go eh?
30th August 2002, 07:07 AM
Tried to get mine out yesterday, but one of the ARB bush mounting nuts is rounded off, trust it to be the one that's up inside one of those holes.
Any ideas how to get around this problem? - they're all rusted to 8uggery anyway.
I've got an odd clonking / bumping noise from in front of the drivers footwell (RHD car) and am kind of hoping that this will go away as well once the ARB is out.
I've done the front balljoints, but the car's 9 yrs and 163K old, will it still have the original shocks/ springs? - they're blue / silver respectively, and I know they haven't been done in the last 3 yrs and 55K miles, because, well, I haven't done them. Worth a change?
Any ideas / pointers gratefully received.
30th August 2002, 07:39 AM
...will it still have the original shocks/ springs? - they're blue / silver respectively, and I know they haven't been done in the last 3 yrs and 55K miles, because, well, I haven't done them. Worth a change?
I'd say definately worth a change! Even if your shocks aren't that dead, replacing them will most likely have a tremendous positive effect to handling! Face it, your shocks are old, and not anymore as effective as they once were. While you're at it, why not get a lowering/stiffer spring set... :roll:
30th August 2002, 08:08 AM
Definatley replace the shocks with something good if you are going to pull the ARB (minimum Sachs-Boge as fitted to the S models - or konis/bilstien etc if you have the cash)- it will roll with weak shocks and springs and no ARB. Either drill the bolts or just cut the arb with an angle grinder for a more permenant solution.
30th August 2002, 05:27 PM
The drill will have to start earning its keep!
As will the Axle stands.
Worth lowering the car? (I'm not too keen on this, due to the perennial problems of idiots in novas / corsas/ mk3 escort vans :roll: ) or standard replacement turbo springs?
It'll be DIY, anything in particular to look out for?