Is the BMW 5-Series in Trouble? [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Is the BMW 5-Series in Trouble?


dano1atty
18th May 2004, 01:12 PM
If you saw the latest issue of Road and Track magazine and of Consumer Reports, the 5-Series does not fare as well as before. Complaints range from the straight-from-hell iDrive system to the ugly rear, to some silly and unnecessary (not to mention, unreliable) electrical features such as a turn signal that tries to guess if you are turning into a side street or merely changing lanes. Usually it guesses wrong. In CR, it has been overtaken as the best Sedan in that class by several cars. Road and Track did a comparo on 7 Sedans and it placed 5th :! :! :-?? :-?? . Automotive heresy, you say? I say this is trouble. Do you agree?

Crevalle
18th May 2004, 04:14 PM
I hadn't thought about it, but now that you mention it, I do believe the 5-series (if you mean the 9-5 models) is in trouble. The reason I say this is because, over the past couple years, I have seen ONE Saab commercial here in Minnesota (and it was generic--no specific model). Now, over the past week, I've seen SEVERAL 9-5 commercials.

Looks like Saab marketing is in overdrive.

McG
18th May 2004, 04:15 PM
That would be the BMW 5-series.

dano1atty
18th May 2004, 04:22 PM
Thanks McG. Sorry Crevalle. Meant the Bimmer. My bad. :oops:

fabric
18th May 2004, 05:18 PM
Crevalle, you may be onto something. Saab doesn't really have a "nickname" like 5-series or S Class (MB). Maybe we can co-opt the BMW terms if we start referring to them as 3-series (9-3) and 5-series (9-5)? We even have a 7 series coming, and we'll beat them to market with our 2-series!

On second though, we don't want to be associated with those snobs. :)

Munki
18th May 2004, 06:15 PM
Saab doesn't really have a "nickname" like 5-series or S Class (MB). Maybe we can co-opt the BMW terms if we start referring to them as 3-series (9-3) and 5-series (9-5)? We even have a 7 series coming, and we'll beat them to market with our 2-series!

On second though, we don't want to be associated with those snobs. :)
Sadly this is the very reason the 9-3 and 9-5 names came about. Saab wanted to compete against the 3 series and 5 series and renamed their cars to show the direct comparison.

bassist5
18th May 2004, 07:19 PM
Saab doesn't really have a "nickname" like 5-series or S Class (MB). Maybe we can co-opt the BMW terms if we start referring to them as 3-series (9-3) and 5-series (9-5)? We even have a 7 series coming, and we'll beat them to market with our 2-series!

On second though, we don't want to be associated with those snobs. :)
Sadly this is the very reason the 9-3 and 9-5 names came about. Saab wanted to compete against the 3 series and 5 series and renamed their cars to show the direct comparison.

Hot damn, really? :o

900t
18th May 2004, 08:45 PM
That and 90000 (9-5) and 900000 (9-2) and 9000000 (9-7) would take a lot of room on the boot lid...

clg31187
18th May 2004, 09:43 PM
yup, bmw is on a downward spiral

the 3 series will be the next car to be ruined. Its really too bad, road and track(i think) named the 2003 530 as the best car they have ever tested. You would think that after performing their magic on the 7 series bmw might have learned from their mistakes...I guess not :-?

Christophe

cactuscool
18th May 2004, 10:36 PM
History shows us that sooner or later all brands as widespread as BMW fall from the top spot. The only brands that seem to remain perceived as being at the top of their class are the smaller brands, like Porsche, Ferrari, etc. Even GM was at the top of their class for a long time, but something seems to happen when you get too big.

MonkeyMan
18th May 2004, 11:02 PM
That and 90000 (9-5) and 900000 (9-2) and 9000000 (9-7) would take a lot of room on the boot lid...

I like it!

BEN

toenail
19th May 2004, 05:45 PM
It seems to me that this all started with Bangle, or whoever gave him charge of screwing with a good thing. Their departure from classic and conservative styling lines is completely unexplainable. Were their sales really so far down that they had to reduce themselves to novelty and "gee whiz" styling to try and gain market share? It was bad enough that they tainted the 7 with that hideous Chrysler Cirrus rear-end treatment, but now it has filtered down to the 5. And those Woodsy Owl eyebrows are almost comical when viewed from the front. What's next? Don't tell me they're silly enough to screw up the 3 series too. And the iDrive has been a sore achilles since it's intro in the 7 a few years back. Why are they still pushing this abomination?

CosmicSaab
19th May 2004, 06:13 PM
I was at then BMW dealer today looking at a 3 series coupe (shhh, don't tell the guys on the SS board). I have to tell you, the 5 looks pretty good, it grows on you. And they also happened to have a new 6 there. I lover the 6 from the moment I saw it in pictures and after seeing it in person, wow. That car in amazingly good looking. And the engine note on it is even better! :o

Dan1
19th May 2004, 06:20 PM
i hope it fails just enough to get bangle fired, but not enough to make BMW go under.

CosmicSaab
19th May 2004, 06:23 PM
i hope it fails just enough to get bangle fired, but not enough to make BMW go under.

Bengle got moved to a new "special" position created just for him. BMW did it like this because it keeps him from causing more harm, but preseres BMW's dignity by keeping them from admitting they did a bad thing.

Oliver_u
20th May 2004, 01:59 PM
I have to agree with E715 on this one. I thought the new 5 was awful when i first saw but now i think its quite good looking. The new 5 estate is nicer though without the ugly ***!

Im sure it will be highly successful in Europe though. Apart from the Mercedes E320 cdi (yawn boring) the BMW 330d is most powerful diesel in its class (except the new A6 maybe). This makes it a good proposition, especilly for the upmarket company car segment.

dano1atty
20th May 2004, 01:59 PM
The 6-series has the same ugly butt as the rest of them. Front is nice, though. :cheesy: Bangle can't be blamed for the useless technology, and the hefty price. Here's a New York Times article that sums up some of the problems:

http://edmunds.nytimes.com/new/2004/bmw/5series/100344930/roadtestarticle.html?articleId=101978&tid=nytimes.e.....BMW*

CosmicSaab
20th May 2004, 02:08 PM
The 6-series has the same ugly butt as the rest of them. Front is nice, though. :cheesy: Bangle can't be blamed for the useless technology, and the hefty price. Here's a New York Times article that sums up some of the problems:

http://edmunds.nytimes.com/new/2004/bmw/5series/100344930/roadtestarticle.html?articleId=101978&tid=nytimes.e.....BMW*

Have you seen the 6 in person. The back works very well (IMO) with the 6 once you see it in person.

dano1atty
20th May 2004, 03:07 PM
The 6-series has the same ugly butt as the rest of them. Front is nice, though. :cheesy: Bangle can't be blamed for the useless technology, and the hefty price. Here's a New York Times article that sums up some of the problems:

http://edmunds.nytimes.com/new/2004/bmw/5series/100344930/roadtestarticle.html?articleId=101978&tid=nytimes.e.....BMW*

Have you seen the 6 in person. The back works very well (IMO) with the 6 once you see it in person.

Matter of fact, I have. Here's what I said at that time:

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=28774&highlight=

valbowski1980
20th May 2004, 03:22 PM
i hope it fails just enough to get bangle fired, but not enough to make BMW go under.

I second that. I miss BMWs early to mid 90s styling, to me this is when they peaked.

clg31187
20th May 2004, 07:19 PM
The mid 90's styling was the best, although, I liked the round headlights better than the flat panal design. As for the rear ends on the new designs, I don't like the 7 but the 6 and the M5 concept don't look too bad. I really hate the stupid new headlights though :x

toenail
20th May 2004, 08:08 PM
The new headlights give the car the look of an owl's eyebrows or a grumpy old man furrowing his brow. Not attractive. The rear was stolen from the old Stratus/Cirrus and should have been left there. The iDrive is what happens when someone gets tunnel vision with a concept and gets so far into it that they might as well roll it out and see what happens.

I think the current 3 series, including M/// are the most attractive cars BMW has produced to date. Agressive stance, clean lines, reasonably conservative overall appearance.

bkrell
20th May 2004, 09:07 PM
I love the interior of the new 5 series, no matter the outside. In the 90's everything went all buttons. The one good thing about i-drive is doing away with all that. I passed by the BMW dealer here in town (on my way to see the new Saab dealer's offerings, of course) and had a peak inside. I was astonished. It was as stark and spartan looking on the inside as my old 82 320i. Just a couple of knobs and guages. I do like that.

clg31187
20th May 2004, 09:28 PM
Can you honestly say that you like the new steering wheel on the 5? I won't really remember much else about the interior aside from the i-drive and how odd looking that wheel was... :o

valbowski1980
21st May 2004, 12:39 AM
I saw a new 5 in the opposite lane and I could have sworn it was a Saturn.

dano1atty
21st May 2004, 08:26 AM
The rear was stolen from the old Stratus/Cirrus and should have been left there. The iDrive is what happens when someone gets tunnel vision with a concept and gets so far into it that they might as well roll it out and see what happens.


LOL.

CosmicSaab
21st May 2004, 01:13 PM
Can you honestly say that you like the new steering wheel on the 5? I won't really remember much else about the interior aside from the i-drive and how odd looking that wheel was... :o

All the wheels I'v seen are like this:

http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/B0268D12-6552-49B5-AD30-DE3C2A5D6C32/0/0450_06.jpg

And that pic that you used makes it look worse for some reason

http://www.bmwusa.com/NR/rdonlyres/59404C05-A44F-4F34-B2E8-F28AF2E6DA72/0/0450_02.jpg

fabric
21st May 2004, 01:19 PM
I'm not sure about the new BMW interiors. The double bin look is not growing on me. The 7 serires I've been in seem really nice though, but the 5 and 6 seem very cheap.

Steering wheels seems to be getting uglier. I dont' like some of these recent attempts at disguising the airbag look with the round center packaging.

valbowski1980
21st May 2004, 02:22 PM
Minus the dumb (IMO) I-drive idea the new BMW interior is tastefully done. However I like the old much better.

toenail
21st May 2004, 05:39 PM
Those pics above are my first good look at the interior. They do no more to win me over than the exterior. That wheel came straight out of a video arcade driving game. The rest of the dash configuration is far too modern/edgy for my tastes. I'm sure there's a market for it though.

bkrell
21st May 2004, 07:50 PM
Looks like upgraded vintage 80's 5-series to me. I love that overall shot. Having had an old bimmer, you guys should know that during the 90's BMW's just sprouted buttons everywhere! I mean, it was like a ChiaPet or something. The 70's and 80's Bimmers were very stark and austere on the inside. Kept the sport in sport sedan. I think i-control could be a lot better than it is, for sure. But I do love the way it cleans up the dash.

toenail
21st May 2004, 10:33 PM
My family had BMW's in the late 70's thru the 80's, Bavaria, 2002, various 3 series etc. The interiors were indeed very spartan, but very functional and always attractive. The 90's button/switch spree did the car no favors and in that respect they have cleaned up the interior a bit now. What strikes me about the look of the newest dash/wheel configuration is it's similarity to the exterior styling of the Cadillac CTS nose, not a look I'm fond of. Very angular and modern, not the timeless classic design I would hope for in a car of the 5 series stature.

bkrell
22nd May 2004, 12:08 AM
I dunno. Looks kinda 3.0 to me.