Weird PPC behaviour [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Weird PPC behaviour


dip
16-05-04, 11:46 PM
Hello everyone, this is my first post on this board, although I've been reading it for a while.

I'm trying to defeat a strangely behaving PPC. I know my vendor is also reading this forum, and he's been quite patient and helpful. But I realize how hard it is for them to do this kind of support remotely, and since the collective wisdom does wonders sometimes, I thought why not ask for advice here.

The car is a 1999 9-5 LPT, and I'm trying to update the software in the car using the PPC. The problem is, the upload gets stuck at 0% and never seem to make any progress. I follow the manual (http://www.bsrab.se/ppc/saab_t7_en_v6.pdf), connect the PPC, key to "on", "Enter", "Tune Car", pull the fuses, "Enter", it displays "Tuning 0%"... and then does nothing.

The longest time I waited was two hours (then I pulled the PPC off as the battery began to grow weak). Since then I tried it several more times, received a second PPC and had two other people attempt this operation on my car as a fool-proof measure. Checked the wiring too. Still the same result. Furtunately, the process doesn't seem to harm anything, as the car behaves as nothing had happened.

I suppose I could just order an updated ECU from the same tuner, but I'm curious to know what could cause this kind of behaviour for the PPC. It does seem to succeed in establishing the communication with the ECU, since it matches the VIN and recognizes the software (as the "Read Car" option is not offered), but the update does not work.

Any feedback is appreciated. Thank you.

Simon
17-05-04, 03:45 AM
Have you been in contact with the vendor that sold you the PPC? I'm sure they can resolve your problems quickly and easily.

dip
17-05-04, 08:31 AM
Of course I did. Actually, the second paragraph of the original posts pretty much answers your question ;)

I've had good experiences with them before, and they are willing to help this time too. But let's face it, what can you really do if all the customer can say is "It's not working", and the product does not offer any diagnostic data? That's the problem with mail order upgrades. I know how painful it is to provide this kind of remote support in IT, and I presume it isn't any better with cars.

Simon
17-05-04, 08:34 AM
This isn't something that can be fixed on a public forum. Depending on who the vendor is (if they have access to the BSR OPS system) you should be able to upload your cars settings directly to BSR in Sweden and they can have a look at the problem, fix it and then you can download updated software to your PPC and upload it to your car. If the vendor in question is not an official BSR distributor then I don't think you will be able to do this.

dip
17-05-04, 09:43 AM
I do realize it was a long shot, but misery likes company. And if someone would've said "Hey, I had the same problem and it got resolved", that could've been immensely comforting. ;)

And who knows, it's a small world, sometimes product developers read public forums. This could make them aware of a potential problem. Or, miracles happen, they could offer a solution.

Simon, if you believe this thread it pointless, I wouldn't mind you deleting it. Sorry for the trouble.

Mattlach
17-05-04, 10:55 AM
I recently got a BSR PPC, havnt tired installing it yet, as I havtn had time...

From reading the manual, however, this doesnt seem like a wrong software problem that BSR would analyze and make a fix for. There is a specific error message for that...

Is it possible that the PPC unit you are using has been used before on a different car? Once you use a PPC on a car it "mates" itself with that car and will only work on that car...

I guess this is so BSR wont just sell one to an enthusiast community and they pass it around...

dip
17-05-04, 11:15 AM
No, I don't believe it's been used on a different car before. I got it in a sealed box from a reputable vendor, who's an official reseller of these products.

I don't know if it comes locked to a particular car out of the box or locks itself on the first connect. It did have a sticker with my VIN on it though. If you connect it to a different car, it says "ERROR VIN". BSR has copy protection built into it, which is understandable.

Simon
17-05-04, 12:09 PM
There was an ECU service recall for early 9-5's. Check with your local dealer if your car has had this upgrade. If not, it would explain why the PPC doesn't work. The only downside (in the U.K. anyway) is that you now have to pay for this upgrade and it's in the region of 400-500 :o

marek
19-05-04, 10:43 PM
I also have a 1999 9-5 and had the same problems trying
to modify the ECU with the PPC unit. I worked with my
distributor in chicago trying different combinations
and different PPC units. I even had my ECU sent to
Sweden to check if there was anything wrong with it.
Finally, we had to modify the ECU using the old-school method by soldering in the chip with new software.

Aussie Mate
22-05-04, 08:36 AM
While I dont have a 95 - I have a 93 - I had a similar problem when upgrading via the PPC.
I ended up reading the car & then uploading it to BSR. They checked it and sent me a revised program. This worked 1st time. I would suggest you try contacting them direct. good luck.. :D

dip
28-09-04, 12:06 PM
To provide some closure to the story.

BSR has delivered a third PPC last week. It had a newer version of software that finally worked on my car. From the timestamp of the original message you can tell the situation took a lot of time to resolve, but the wait had a positive effect as well ;). In these few months I've upgraded the suspension, installed a Remus exhaust, put new tires on and did some other maintenance on the car, so I ended up with a more balanced set-up that I would have if I just got a working PPC right away.

I took the car to the dyno yesterday. The result was 172 hp and 228 ft-lbs at the wheels with automatic transmission locked in third gear (gear selector to "3", winter mode on). I was expecting the hp to be higher, but the torque seems to be reasonable.

Does anybody know what the drivetrain losses for the automatic gearbox are?
With a pessimistic 20% loss we're at 215 hp / 285 ft-lbs at the crank.
A 15% loss would give us 205 hp / 268 ft-lbs. This kind of specs would suit a diesel well ;).

Chris 9-5
29-09-04, 03:47 PM
I ended up with a more balanced set-up that I would have if I just got a working PPC right away.

Well done Dip 8)

Paul
03-10-04, 12:02 PM
Glad everything has finally worked out OK for you!



I took the car to the dyno yesterday. The result was 172 hp and 228 ft-lbs at the wheels with automatic transmission locked in third gear (gear selector to "3", winter mode on). I was expecting the hp to be higher, but the torque seems to be reasonable.


What model car do you have and what Bhp were you expecting?

It is my experience that the figures provided by BSR are generally very accurate, if you find any significant deviation from the claimed figures there is most likely something on your car that needs looking at, this is one of the best reasons to put your car on a dyno after performing any upgrades IMO....

I put my BSR stage 2 9000 lpt on the dyno and got significantly less power and torque than I expected, disappointing of course, however I since diagnosed a faulty actuator. Fitting a new uprated actuator has transformed my car and I can't wait to get the chance to dyno it again. Without my first visit to the dyno I would never have known there was a problem.

dip
03-10-04, 12:12 PM
What model car do you have and what Bhp were you expecting?
The car model is mentioned in the original post above. It's a 1999 9-5 2.3t automatic.

I didn't have any initial expectations, I just wanted to know how much would I get ;). It pulls stronger, that's for sure. And I'm curious, how did you diagnose a bad wastegate actuator?

Paul
03-10-04, 06:27 PM
I didn't have any initial expectations, I just wanted to know how much would I get ;). It pulls stronger, that's for sure. And I'm curious, how did you diagnose a bad wastegate actuator?

I had already recently replaced my DI cassette, fitted new plugs, new forge dump valve, changed out all the vacuum lines and had fitted a new boost pressure valve as part of the upgrade.

The power curves from my first dyno run were good smooth curves except not as high as they should be.... what with all the work I had already done this led me to believe that I must be losing boost pressure through a weak spring in the actuator or via a sticky wastegate. Also I could see from my in car boost gauge that I wasn't holding boost too well in the lower gears and that boost levels were not reaching what they should be.

I checked for a sticky wastegate and that was not the problem, the only thing left was to replace the wastegate, as I said previously this made a huge difference.

Marky
04-10-04, 10:47 PM
Ours dynoed 179hp and 346nm with maptun steg2. The car is a '98 2.3lpt.

However... looking at the performance of the car..






http://users.pandora.be/saabtuning1/images2/diversen/diversen/Picture_1975.mov