View Full Version : Maybe Saab should rethink the 9-7
vector93
14-05-04, 12:52 AM
It looks like Saab may have missed the boat...
If the market for SUVs goes south, it could be trouble. I doubt the 9-7 will grab the top of the market.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=1896&ncid=1896&e=10&u=/nm/20040513/us_nm/autos_gasoline_dc_2
valbowski1980
16-05-04, 12:06 AM
That is what happens when you follow trends instead of starting them. Maybe the "me too" sheep approach doesn't work after all. :wink:
That is what happens when you follow trends instead of starting them. Maybe the "me too" sheep approach doesn't work after all. :wink:
The problem is that it does works...at least for the short term...but that's never been what Saab is about. Saab should never follow.
I don't understand why yanks complain about paying $2.00 for
a gallon of gas, give me a break. You have to be some dirt poor
hick to complain about these cheap fuel prices. Go for a trip
up north and take a look at our fuel prices, we pay around
90 cents a litre for regular gas. That translates to $3.00 U.S
a gallon, so please STFU.
Vector-SS
16-05-04, 02:58 PM
94 octane in Canada hit was at 108.4 Cents !!! :o
valbowski1980
16-05-04, 03:48 PM
Nairda
I am no hick but I am a college kid on a budget, therefore when the prices go up my already weak bank accout becomes weaker. The fact that my Saab keeps eating money doesn't help either.
My beef with oil is not how much it costs but where it is bought from and by using vegetable oil (at least in commercial vehicles) we can ease OPEC's grip, that and give our farmers a reason to grow crops again.
squishmann
16-05-04, 05:11 PM
nobody really cares about gas prices, people aren't happy unless they have something to complain about.
i'm spending 3 more dollars when i fill up now. boo hoo
as long as the audi a7 is priced higher than the 9-7 then we should be OK.
the purpose of this truck is to keep people ion the brand
vector93
16-05-04, 08:52 PM
I am not complaining about gas prices since I don't like SUVs to begin with. I think they are pointless unless you are towing something or consistently transporting people/cargo. Everytime I see an SUV with one occupant during my morning commmute I think to myself "what a waste". Why do you need an SUV as your daily driver? Women in Ford Excursions are the worst. So it is somewhat satisfying to me that SUV sales are down. I was just pointing out that the 9-7X may be released at a bad time.
sethsev7n
16-05-04, 11:24 PM
That is what happens when you follow trends instead of starting them. Maybe the "me too" sheep approach doesn't work after all. :wink:
The problem is that it does works...at least for the short term...but that's never been what Saab is about. Saab should never follow.
Its not "Saab" anymore. They've lost their identity and status and are now a GM company, ruled by GM standards and GM motives.. it makes me sick.
squishmann
17-05-04, 12:48 AM
u ever think that the woman in the ford excursion is picking up her 7 kids?
people by suvs b/c of the way they ride. nice and comfy. they make potholes dissapear. and they give you a good view of the road.
we cannot confuse mid size with full size suvs.
and they give you a good view of the road.
No they don't. I can't see past them. :)
squishmann
18-05-04, 03:19 AM
yeah, i know it sucks for those of us driving behind them, that part I hate
Now it's not even just the SUVs. The new Corolla/Matrix/Vibe are these tall boxes that are hard to see past.
Fortunately in the NG900 you sit relatively high. Helps a little.
Toreador93
18-05-04, 09:55 PM
I can understand if you have 7 kids to cart around, or you're always hauling something. But how often I see ONE or TWO people in an Escalade or H2, which will never see off-road or a load behind it. Most of these people live in the city or suburbs, and buy these vehicles as status symbols (though many are probably making payments).
Or how about the people that buy Trailblazers or Yukons and try to 'pimp' them out by lowering them and putting huge rims on them. Soft, comfy ride?? Don't think so. I wait to see it crack a rim (especially with Michigan potholes).
I hope GM learns to keep their grubby hands off Saab before they entirely ruin it.
And I keep saying, there's another Swedish marque owned by a more liberal company.
CosmicSaab
20-05-04, 10:31 PM
Yeah, well that other Swedish marque was already profitable, this one is not, and has not been but 2 times since 1990.
Anyways...
Saab still needs the 9-7x. Their model line up is still small and a little weak, the 9-7x will help it out a lot.
valbowski1980
21-05-04, 03:57 AM
Better hope that the average consumer can see past the blatant re-badging or else the 9-7X is screwed and along with it so are Saab's dreams of a populist market.
valbowski1980
21-05-04, 03:59 AM
Yeah, well that other Swedish marque was already profitable,
you mean Koenigsegg right? :)
vector93
21-05-04, 01:35 PM
u ever think that the woman in the ford excursion is picking up her 7 kids?
Well I highly doubt anyone is picking up their kids from anywhere at 7:30 in the morning when I am on my way to work along the PA turnpike.
Toreador93
21-05-04, 11:04 PM
Well then let's take Jaguar. Jaguar was on the verge of extinction, and Ford seems to have done a decent job without rebadging. Granted, some argue the rear of the S-Type looks like the rear of a tarus, and the X-Type is built on the Mondeo PLATFORM.
I don't really have any biases towards any carmaker, but GM seems to make many more misses than hits, in my opinion.
A quick search found this http://www.detnews.com/2004/autosinsider/0404/04/a01-112086.htm:
General Motors Corp.’s acquisition of Volvo’s crosstown rival, Saab Automobile AB, has not lived up to its potential. Saab sales are down in Europe and in the United States.
For Volvo’s 28,000 employees, Saab’s troubles serve as a cautionary tale of what can befall even a prestigious brand when it loses its independence.
“We must deliver what we have promised,” says Hans-Olov Olsson, president and CEO of Volvo Car Corp. “If you don’t deliver, all sorts of people will start controlling things they don’t understand, and that would be very dangerous for Volvo.”
"State of Independence" my a**...
"State of Independence" my a**...
And on that note, see my new post...:-)
Toreador93
22-05-04, 06:14 AM
LOL! Yeah, Michigan isn't much of a "state of independence" either.
Saab spokesman Kevin Smith said the company had offered positions in Detroit "to a good number" of the employees, but he declined to give an exact number.
This is sad...
GM has missed the boat with the 9-7x. Grow the brand - yes. Adding more customers beyond the loyal few is, in itself, an OK thing which must happen in order to get bigger (ie, profitable).
The 9-2x as a quick to market retool was a great move. The much lauded platform and the natural fit with Subaru should make for a fast moving product for young enthusiast drivers.
The 9-7x on the other hand, is 180 degrees out from the flavor of Saab. Saab loyalists are not truck fans and likely wouldn't be caught dead in a minivan. What to buy then to cart the kids to soccer in? Stylish euro wagons with sport sedan origins or one of the many new car based sporty 'crossover' SUVs (Cayenne, Touareg, FX, A-7...)
The very last thing you want is a clumsy unreliable truck to clutter up the showrooms. Those who desire this type of vehicle will be found buying them at Chevy and Buick dealers. Those who own Saabs and need a bigger car will go down the street to Audi, Volvo, BMW, Porsche, VW. If it is just about AWD or a third seat (and these really are the two biggest items, not height) Volvo has both and is already hurting Saab in that department.
What they needed to do with all that development effort was to lend a 4WD/AWD tranny to the 9-5 wagon and stuff in a third seat like the V-70. That would have bought them 2-3 years to develop a ground up 7 seater with AWD that looks and drives like its siblings at Saab.
Platform sharing is fine; the 9-3 is a good example of a 'real' Saab from a common platform. Future 9-2 variants may be only distant relatives of the other cars that share the platform, and that is OK. A new Sonnett from the Solstice platform would be a great thing for Saab I think. The 9-7 just flattens the 'state of independence' after things were looking up for Saab futures.
valbowski1980
24-05-04, 06:53 PM
What they needed to do with all that development effort was to lend a 4WD/AWD tranny to the 9-5 wagon and stuff in a third seat like the V-70.
Now there is a new Saab I'd consider.
The very last thing you want is a clumsy unreliable truck to clutter up the showrooms. Those who desire this type of vehicle will be found buying them at Chevy and Buick dealers. Those who own Saabs and need a bigger car will go down the street to Audi, Volvo, BMW, Porsche, VW. If it is just about AWD or a third seat (and these really are the two biggest items, not height) Volvo has both and is already hurting Saab in that department.
Huh? The reason those who own Saabs and want a bigger car are going to the BMW or VW dealer is precisely because those brands have an SUV. If Saab doesn't have and SUV, of course they'll buy elsewhere. Volvo's model with a 3rd seat *is* an SUV.
Not everyone going into the Saab dealer is a Saab owner either. If Saab doesn't have an SUV, they aren't even going to get those people in the door.
And many Saab owners really don't care about the technical details - if they like the way it looks and drives, that's all they care about. And brand loyalty for many is all that's required. Saab not having an SUV means they are losing all those customers to similar makes with an SUV. They are getting the BMW or VW because it's a Euro SUV - they aren't going to look at an Explorer or Trailblazer.
sethsev7n
24-05-04, 08:31 PM
fabric -
"Saab not having an SUV means they are losing all those customers to similar makes with an SUV. They are getting the BMW or VW because it's a Euro SUV - they aren't going to look at an Explorer or Trailblazer."
Well then its too bad that the 9-7 isnt a european SUV :wink:
valbowski1980
24-05-04, 11:07 PM
Most SUV owners/buyers don't care whether its from America, Japan, Europe or Mars, just as long as their neighbors are jealous.
fabric -
"Saab not having an SUV means they are losing all those customers to similar makes with an SUV. They are getting the BMW or VW because it's a Euro SUV - they aren't going to look at an Explorer or Trailblazer."
Well then its too bad that the 9-7 isnt a european SUV :wink:
Well played. :)
Most SUV owners/buyers don't care whether its from America, Japan, Europe or Mars, just as long as their neighbors are jealous.
Depends on the neighborhood. :) In general I'd disagree. The MB and BMW SUV driving snobs couldn't care less if you have an Expedition or say, Honda pilot. But either of the two new Infiniti's just might make him jealous, or perhaps the biggest of the Lexus -or even the SRX, although probably not the Escalade. The reverse may apply as well. The Honda Pilot owner might look down on the X5 owner and his less reliable, more costly snob-mobile. It's not so much country of origin as much as cachet - something Lexus and Infiniti have, but not Toyota, Nissan or Honda (despite that fact they are the same vehicles in many cases).
Now that the Euro's are heavily in the SUV market, you can compare ownership of those to a car. Is somebody in a 5 series going to be jealous of his neighbor's new Lincoln LS? Probably not.
valbowski1980
28-05-04, 02:06 AM
I was implying that the vast majority of SUV owners are sheep. You are right about the hood ornamet factor though.
A lot of people buy cars to keep up with the Joneses, which is essentially the same as the herd mentality. That's a good point.
CleveSaab
28-05-04, 05:53 PM
I agree with Fabric. My dealer, whom I trust, told me they lost at least 40-60 sales over the last year because people traded in thier 9-5 Wagons or 9-5's for an SUV. Luckily the brisk 9-3 SS sales helped them out. ;) He is chomping at the bit for the 9-7X. He says "guarentee a minmum of half those lost sales would have bought a Saab SUV if we had one....
He has 4 9-2X's already sold, and he doesn't even have one on his lot.