9000 cse lpt performance improvements [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: 9000 cse lpt performance improvements


novec
02-07-02, 08:55 AM
I have just got myself a nice 98 9000 cse lpt done 60k. What would be the cheapest most sensible way to start improving the engine performance a step by step list would be nice and what sort of costs are involved?
I would prefer it to be a good cross country car that a racer.

Jo K
02-07-02, 08:03 PM
Broadly, there are two ways to go about it: 'mechnical' and 'electrical'

The first way involves installing the various bits and pieces that convert an LPT to an FPT. Yours probably has the intercooler already so it would be just a few things like the BPC solenoid(??) and some hoses and bits. You would also need to have the Trionic replaced with a unit from the same model year FPT. You can probably get all of these second-hand. Hunt around the archives here or at saabnet.com for a full list of the bits you need for the conversion.

The second way involves having your existing Trionic module reprogrammed by an aftermarket tuner. Take a look at a few of the tuner sites like Abbottracing.com, Maptun, nordic and SQR.nu (in Swedish but east to follow) and you'll see what is available. Start with Abbott as they have a good website and it's in English :smile:

It probably wouldn't cost a huge amount of money, although Trionic reprogramming doesn't come particularly cheap.

Hope this helps. I should think that you have a good car to upgrade.

novec
03-07-02, 07:01 AM
Thanks Jo K
I have seen mechanical boost valves for very little money. Will these make a difference on their own or are they liable to cause damage or do they just need to be used with other mods?

Jo K
03-07-02, 04:23 PM
Not sure I follow, but I doubt that what you are referring to would do the job alone.

I think that people would typically go down one of the routes described above, probably including a new air filter and perhaps a new exhaust. It depends how much trouble you want to go to really. If you like purchasing things quickly and easily and brand new then I suppose getting your Trionic module would be best, otherwise start hunting around for the mechanical bits and pieces to upgrade to an FPT.
After that there are other things that I believe you can do, but I strongly suspect that there are diminishing returns...

Ken
10-08-02, 05:10 PM
I too have a late model lpt w. intercooler and soon will be running along to Abbott for their performance kit which costs about 550 if I remember rightly. I havn't driven one of their 9000's but have had the pleasure of driving a 900 lpt modded by them, Wow! is all I can say, outshone my 88 900 FPT by a long way.

Cheers

Ken

SteveN
11-08-02, 06:47 AM
A very good, quick, easy mod is to fit Superlex poly bushes to the rear anti-roll bar. Got mine from Elkparts for about 10. They take 10 mins per side to fit and really stiffen up the rear end.

The advantage the LPT has over FPT is it hits boost more quickly giving a smoother power curve. The disadvantage is there is less power in that curve :( So what Abbott and the like try to do is give you more power without losing the faster spool up.

An MBC/Dawes Device/bleed valve will try to do someting similar but by fooling the wastegate into closing later than Trionic wants it to. By this method you can raise the boost from the set 0.3 bar to about 0.55 bar. 0.6 bar and above Trionic will simply panic and cut the fuel off. So, yes the Dawes device will give you more horses for little outlay but won't turn it into an FPT. Abbott and Hirsch will take you up to about 0.8-0.9 bar but in doing this they will also re-program the ECU to send sufficient fuel to sustain that power level.

The mods I have done so far have been about improving throttle response. So that's a Trent PCV check valve and recirculating dump valve, JR high flow air filter, silicon vac hoses and Superflex upper engine mounts. These have been very successful. I will probably start experimenting with wastegate actuator rod adjustment next week to see what extra power can be got safely by a couple of turns on a 10mm nut.

Fan-TC
12-08-02, 11:11 PM
First step is to get a computer from a FPT or AERO.

Second Step is to install a mechanical bleed on your wastegate accutator line for no higher than about 1 bar.


Works a treat, absolutely tyre thrashingly powerful...

SteveN
14-08-02, 10:39 AM
I just edited my previous post when, for no reason, I realized I'd left out the "." on all the bar readings I mentioned :roll: If anybody has got their LPT running on 9 bar, let me know :wink:

I spoke to Giles at Abbott who tells me there is no point in uprating the actuator rod as cutout is set to 0.38bar on a 2.3l lpt.

Guest
15-08-02, 04:11 AM
You can do many tweeks- suspension etc, all of which are worthwhile and you will notice an improvement, however IMO if you want more performance there's only one sensiible, safe route to go down... upgrade your ECU. Then you can add all the bleed valves etc to it that squezze extra performance out being sure that it is mapped to cope with the extra boost pressure.

You've got 2 choices- an aftermarket upgrade e.g Abbott, most of which are circa 500 or get hold of a second hand ECU for a "standard" FPT. This should be about 200.

gustavm
08-02-09, 01:00 PM
My 9000 2.0 lpt automatic has no intercooler .Is it required if I increase the boost pressure modestly .Flashing the Eprom was the idea I had in mind.The car has a k@n filter in original housing and a straight through rear muffler.

ClubSport
08-02-09, 01:40 PM
My 9000 2.0 lpt automatic has no intercooler .Is it required if I increase the boost pressure modestly .Flashing the Eprom was the idea I had in mind.The car has a k@n filter in original housing and a straight through rear muffler.

I wouldn't touch the boost control unless you find some way to lower intake charge air temps - either with an intercooler or a phenolic intake manifold spacer, or better yet, both.

deeph8
12-02-09, 03:40 PM
I did the conversion last year with used parts. All it took was an Aero ecu (about $100) and an APC solenoid (about $60) and about 10 feet of vacuum line. Just for grins, I also installed a VDO vacuum/boost gauge, since my 9000CS did not have a turbo gauge. With this setup I get 15-17 psi (~1 bar) boost and an overall 1.5mpg improvement.

shinobidice
12-02-09, 08:26 PM
First step is to get a computer from a FPT or AERO.

Second Step is to install a mechanical bleed on your wastegate accutator line for no higher than about 1 bar.


Works a treat, absolutely tyre thrashingly powerful...


If you're getting the FPT ECU you might as well get the boost controller and have a FPT car with Trionic's Automatic Performance Control, since it's part of the program itself. By using an MBC you just bypass a bunch of engineering and safety factors built in, and only benefit from the raised fuel-cut.

You would not want an aero computer because it's setup for the TD-04 turbo and will have problems with AFR and other things like that, especially on efficiency. If you wanted to go LPT to Aero, you'd have to swap the turbo too.

For a few bucks, patience, some computer skill, and elementary soldering knowledge, you can use T5 Suite Pro to freely tune your ecu as you please. I'm currently running Stage 1 on my formerly LPT 1997 CS. I do have the boost controller that I pulled from another car. Total cost? $25 for the BDM controller, $1 for the pin headers. The extra dough I saved from the tune I'll spend in gas boosting all across NY. I actually think the engine is running more efficient after tuning.

HenrikUK
13-02-09, 04:11 AM
Guys, note the date of the original thread - 2002 :D


Just as curiosa:
The Aero computer actually works well with a T25 - it used to be common practice by performance companies to offer "stage1" upgrades for LPT's which were in fact just a plain standard Aero map (verified with the checksum of the bin!)

However, the best would be to go stage-1 or stage-2 on LPT from T5Suite, as that gives more boost than the standard aero map further down the register (iirc)


Gustavm: You should really fit the intercooler IMO, otherwise you'll end up with high charge temps and that will (to a great degree) negate any extra oomph from the boost pressure increase. Get a used intercooler and the pipework from a breaker - it should fit right into your car (in front of the radiator).

Assuming your car is 1993 or newer (i.e you have a trionic ECU), you should be able to go to stage-2 software with your other hardware mods if you fit the intercooler and the APC (the standard boost pressure control system).

a11m1ghty
27-03-09, 05:07 PM
If you're getting the FPT ECU you might as well get the boost controller and have a FPT car with Trionic's Automatic Performance Control, since it's part of the program itself. By using an MBC you just bypass a bunch of engineering and safety factors built in, and only benefit from the raised fuel-cut.

You would not want an aero computer because it's setup for the TD-04 turbo and will have problems with AFR and other things like that, especially on efficiency. If you wanted to go LPT to Aero, you'd have to swap the turbo too.

For a few bucks, patience, some computer skill, and elementary soldering knowledge, you can use T5 Suite Pro to freely tune your ecu as you please. I'm currently running Stage 1 on my formerly LPT 1997 CS. I do have the boost controller that I pulled from another car. Total cost? $25 for the BDM controller, $1 for the pin headers. The extra dough I saved from the tune I'll spend in gas boosting all across NY. I actually think the engine is running more efficient after tuning.

Please, someone tell me where to BUY not build, buy a BDM adapter?