Faults/Codes with Engine Controller Upgrades? [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Faults/Codes with Engine Controller Upgrades?


rando67
25-04-04, 09:50 PM
I would like to start a post here with folks that have either a BSR or Hirsch upgrade to indicate if they have had any codes set and/or SID indications occur.

I might be wrong but I believe I have read that some folks have seen a tracking control (Electronic Stability Control) SID warning with the BSR upgrade. Is this true? Others?

This is not to get paranoia but rather what could be expected in having a upgrade applied to a vehicle.

Saba
25-04-04, 10:12 PM
I would like to start a post here with folks that have either a BSR or Hirsch upgrade to indicate if they have had any codes set and/or SID indications occur.

I might be wrong but I believe I have read that some folks have seen a tracking control (Electronic Stability Control) SID warning with the BSR upgrade. Is this true? Others?

This is not to get paranoia but rather what could be expected in having a upgrade applied to a vehicle.The stability control warning only comes on when the PPC upgrade is being uploaded. It doesn't come on after that.

SS
02-05-04, 04:40 AM
Here is the weird part though. I was told that its normal for the traction control and stability control to flip while tuning or un-tuning, BUT i noticed something weird. The last time i tuned, the stability control and the traction both failed. Two days ago i had to take the car in, so i un-tuned and ONLY the traction control failed. Why didnt the stability control fail too?

I dont like it how something decides to fail whenever it wishes to :nono; !!!

Good one rando, i hope everyone chips in this one!

Saba
02-05-04, 08:09 AM
Well they're not really "failing". Only the warning signals aare being tripped. I would expect tuning in the BSR setting may produce different responses to tuning the stock settings back in. Maybe not though.

Sol
02-05-04, 01:03 PM
I have my ECU updated from Hirsch. Ones with step one and twise with step 2. I got first edition step 2 and last edition step 2. No problems what so ever.No wrongs signals or problems with TSC or something else.
The car feels like a more than 3,0 L suction engine. Powerfull and smooth on the same time.

Paul
02-05-04, 03:10 PM
As Saba states nothing is failing. The reprogramming of the ECU causes the various sensors on the car to throw temporary error messages because they are not receiving the signals they are expecting and that is it, there is absolutely nothing to be concerned about.

It is just the nature of doing the upgrade with the ECU in situ and while the ignition is turned on.....

Saba
02-05-04, 06:57 PM
I have my ECU updated from Hirsch. Ones with step one and twise with step 2. I got first edition step 2 and last edition step 2. No problems what so ever.No wrongs signals or problems with TSC or something else.
The car feels like a more than 3,0 L suction engine. Powerfull and smooth on the same time.I would say even the Hirsch upgrade would trip signals whilst loading, but you don't see that because of the nature of the upgrade. I have NO problems with my PPC. It works better than I expected.

aeroild
03-05-04, 02:32 AM
I would say even the Hirsch upgrade would trip signals whilst loading, but you don't see that because of the nature of the upgrade. I have NO problems with my PPC. It works better than I expected.

I don't remember seeing any failure warnings when Hirsch upgraded my car. They used a laptop plugged into the OBD-II diagnostic port.

Saba
03-05-04, 02:59 AM
I would say even the Hirsch upgrade would trip signals whilst loading, but you don't see that because of the nature of the upgrade. I have NO problems with my PPC. It works better than I expected.

I don't remember seeing any failure warnings when Hirsch upgraded my car. They used a laptop plugged into the OBD-II diagnostic port.Ok I stand corrected :oops:

Sol
03-05-04, 04:58 AM
Saba,
What you mean better than expected ?

Saba
03-05-04, 06:41 AM
Saba,
What you mean better than expected ?Well I expected not to get the full 29 hp, 45 Nm gain as quoted by BSR. My dyno results confirmed that I got exactly that (at the wheels). I was expecting that gain at the crank. The turbo rush is much more pronounced than expected. Pull in 4th gear is outstanding, didn't expect that. Extremely happy with what I got.

mav238
05-05-04, 03:12 PM
Here is the weird part though. I was told that its normal for the traction control and stability control to flip while tuning or un-tuning, BUT i noticed something weird. The last time i tuned, the stability control and the traction both failed. Two days ago i had to take the car in, so i un-tuned and ONLY the traction control failed. Why didnt the stability control fail too?

I dont like it how something decides to fail whenever it wishes to :nono; !!!

Good one rando, i hope everyone chips in this one!

I am really tempted to get the PPC loaded in my 9-3, but given these "hiccups" in the ESP warning light, just worried that eventually something more permanent may happen to the engine. Yes, I know, the extra 30 hp and 30 lb/ft torque is tempting... but... just wish BSR will work out these bugs...

Paul
05-05-04, 04:09 PM
I am really tempted to get the PPC loaded in my 9-3, but given these "hiccups" in the ESP warning light, just worried that eventually something more permanent may happen to the engine. Yes, I know, the extra 30 hp and 30 lb/ft torque is tempting... but... just wish BSR will work out these bugs...

:roll: these are not bugs.

It is perfectly normal behaviour, as the ECU is being upgraded the various onboard sensors are being confused and throwing errors. As soon as the upgrade is complete all is back to normal. How many times does this need explaining :-??

SS
05-05-04, 06:17 PM
Well then howcome the person on this forum who witnessed Hirsch upgrading his ECU didnt see any "throwing" of codes around? On top of all that, i see it reasonable for someone to be worried over and over again as the fact of the ECU flipping is not that normal! The FACT that the ECU is giving these notices means that something is not normal. First time i installed the PPC, i did not recieve any faults. I uninstalled it and again, no faults. Then when i re-installed it, i recieved stability and traction faliure, and when i un-installed, only traction failure. I dont see this as normal! What? The ECU gives failure notices whenever the **** it feels like? I dont think thats normal!

EDIT: If there is an explanation of WHY the ECU sometimes gives failure notcies and other times it doesnt, then yes, maybe its normal!

rando67
05-05-04, 06:57 PM
When I started this thread I was just inquiring about 'codes' when in execution and not when uploading/downloading. And right now I can't say for sure if there are or aren't 'codes' after the PPC has been loaded (actual running in the car with PPC). As in a response as "yes, I have experienced 'codes' during operation with the BSR/Hirsch."

Just as a related question ... say I revert to the last software that was in the vehicle previous to the PPC, go to the dealer, and they upload a new version of software. Then reload the PPC software. Will the PPC store the newer software that the dealership provided? Just curious? Maybe this is a question for BSR.

Paul
05-05-04, 07:22 PM
Well then howcome the person on this forum who witnessed Hirsch upgrading his ECU didnt see any "throwing" of codes around? On top of all that, i see it reasonable for someone to be worried over and over again as the fact of the ECU flipping is not that normal! The FACT that the ECU is giving these notices means that something is not normal. First time i installed the PPC, i did not recieve any faults. I uninstalled it and again, no faults. Then when i re-installed it, i recieved stability and traction faliure, and when i un-installed, only traction failure. I dont see this as normal! What? The ECU gives failure notices whenever the *** it feels like? I dont think thats normal!

EDIT: If there is an explanation of WHY the ECU sometimes gives failure notcies and other times it doesnt, then yes, maybe its normal!

I have twice in this thread stated what I have been told personally by BSR, the explanation seems perfectly logical and reasonable to me.

You should remember that 1) You are not getting any failures only warning messages, nothing has actually failed. 2) These error messages only appear during upload of the software 3) Everything is fine once the upload is complete.

If you are still not happy with the explanation then perhaps you should take this up with BSR.

rando67
05-05-04, 07:33 PM
1) You are not getting any failures only warning messages, nothing has actually failed. 2) These error messages only appear during upload of the software 3) Everything is fine once the upload is complete.

If you are still not happy with the explanation then perhaps you should take this up with BSR.

Cool - that is what I wanted to hear. I just thought there were some folks that had it otherwise.

SS
05-05-04, 07:52 PM
If you are still not happy with the explanation then perhaps you should take this up with BSR.

Not about being not happy with it, but more like not the explanation i was looking for. Perhaps you misunderstood what explanation i was looking for! Anyways, its alright! No problem!

Saba
05-05-04, 07:59 PM
Error codes I have observed.

Uploading BSR settings

"Traction Control Failure " lasts for about 2 seconds
"Stability Control Failure " chimes and lasts for about 3 seconds.
"Traction Control Failure " lasts until end of update. Clears itself automatically.

Uploading Stock settings

"Stability Control Failure " lasts for about 2 seconds
"Traction Control Failure " chimes and lasts for about 3 seconds.
"Stability Control Failure " lasts until end of update. Clears itself automatically.

Driving

None, I have driven over 5000 km with it installed.

I have done this a few times now and the messages have been repeated. Its not random, they occur in sequence and are obviuosly a response to the upload process.

Hirsh probably doesn't have the messages because they obviously have the T8 algorithm and are able to adjust settings that avoid the trips.

BSR had to crack the T8 setting.

Its no big deal. Jeez I reckon more warning messages appear on the SID caused by bugs in Saab designs than in the BSR design.

SS
05-05-04, 08:30 PM
Saba, do they clear by themselves or you have to clear them. Cause when these things happen to me, i have to turn off the car, take out the key for everything to re-set and then its gone!

Saba
05-05-04, 08:38 PM
Saba, do they clear by themselves or you have to clear them. Cause when these things happen to me, i have to turn off the car, take out the key for everything to re-set and then its gone! I disconnect the PPC, turn the key off and they clear. In fact I think they clear when I just disconnect the PPC

saabvec
06-05-04, 02:05 AM
I am really tempted to get the PPC loaded in my 9-3, but given these "hiccups" in the ESP warning light, just worried that eventually something more permanent may happen to the engine. Yes, I know, the extra 30 hp and 30 lb/ft torque is tempting... but... just wish BSR will work out these bugs...

Once you load the software and take the car for a drive, you'll feel that your engine can easily handle the extra power. That will be the only time you'll gain complete confidence about the upgrade. This is my 3rd day of drving with PPC and I have not seen one warning pop up on my SID. In fact, it may have even fixed the "Airbag" warning I get every now and then because it hasnt shown up since I loaded the PPC. Another observation worth mentioning is how quick the locking mechanism works now. It used to have a short delay when I lock/unlock the doors from the inside, now the delay is gone. May be just a fluke but the new software is the only thing I can attribute it to. The extra power is intoxicating, it's like driving a completely different car.

aeroild
06-05-04, 08:23 AM
Well then howcome the person on this forum who witnessed Hirsch upgrading his ECU didnt see any "throwing" of codes around?

I'm the person who wrote that I didn't remember seeing any failure warnings when Hirsch upgraded my car. I should probably point out that I didn't watch the SID all the time during the update. I was also having a very interesting conversation with the Hirsch guy (a former Saab engineer) about weaknesses of the 9-3SS engines. He did scare me a little :o , but apparently Saab is improving the engine for future model years. :D

I suspect that Hirsch use some sort of Tech-II emulation software when they update the car, and this software can probably do the upgrade without triggering any failure warnings.

Btw: The Hirsch upgrade does wonders to the car. Highly recommended. :cheesy:

Saba
06-05-04, 08:42 AM
I was also having a very interesting conversation with the Hirsch guy (a former Saab engineer) about weaknesses of the 9-3SS engines. He did scare me a little :o , but apparently Saab is improving the engine for future model years. :D

Do tell. What were the weaknesses he mentioned?

aeroild
06-05-04, 09:34 AM
Do tell. What were the weaknesses he mentioned?

I'm sorry but I better not. I don't remember all the specifics and I'm just an amateur so I didn't understand it all either. So instead of spreading inaccurate information and half-truths :nono; I think I'll just keep my mouth shut.

Let's just enjoy our great cars! :D

SS
06-05-04, 03:20 PM
Do tell. What were the weaknesses he mentioned?

I'm sorry but I better not. I don't remember all the specifics and I'm just an amateur so I didn't understand it all either. So instead of spreading inaccurate information and half-truths :nono; I think I'll just keep my mouth shut.

Let's just enjoy our great cars! :D

He didnt mention any weaknesses concerning the engine with the upgraded ECU, did he?

rando67
06-05-04, 04:53 PM
I am curious to those with a BSR/Hirsch upgrade. Are you able to disengauge the ESP? I wonder if that saves some (?) on torque, in relation to the BSR/Hirsch upgrade. I don't think anyone asked that question.

aeroild
06-05-04, 04:59 PM
Do tell. What were the weaknesses he mentioned?

I'm sorry but I better not. I don't remember all the specifics and I'm just an amateur so I didn't understand it all either. So instead of spreading inaccurate information and half-truths :nono; I think I'll just keep my mouth shut.

Let's just enjoy our great cars! :D

He didnt mention any weaknesses concerning the engine with the upgraded ECU, did he?

No. I believe that if Hirsch sells an upgrade, the engine will handle it.
I'm sure the engine can handle a lot of power.The Hirsch guy pointed out that it's weaker than the previous 4-cylinder engine (as we already knew). He also mentioned a couple of weaknesses that Saab has straightened out. So don't worry and enjoy your car with or without an upgrade! :D