PPC and rattles and a dealer story [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: PPC and rattles and a dealer story


LinearSLT
18-04-04, 06:16 PM
A few weeks ago, I took it upon myself to chase down many of the rattles in the dash. So I unplugged the battery ground and systematically took the vents, EHU, climate control, SID, instrument panel etc. apart. While I was at it I changed the stock Linear gauge cluster to the one with the silver rings. I got it at the same time I bought my PPC from PFS.

I used weatherstripping (the black foam stuff with the adhesive backing) on all the edges and clips of the dash mounted stuff plus all the places I could get to vibrate inside the dash, including a major wiring harness that goes across the main support beam. That harness can bang against the black support beam in places. I also noticed that the heater ducts rub on that beam and I wedged some foam in between the ducts and the beam. That seems to have eliminated the nasty squeaky sytofoam sound that I had all winter that seemed to come from the two top long dash vents. It was driving me nuts and was a major embarrasment on a 42 grand car.

Anyways, after putting it all together and driving around to see how I did, I pulled back into the driveway and decided to clean up the garage a bit. Upon restarting I got an 'Immobilizer failure' and the car would not start. Called Onstar and they sent a flatbed to tow it to the dealer within an hour. This was Saturday afternoon. But not before I used the PPC to restore my settings to stock.

Monday morning, they spent 3 hours on diagnostics to discover the instrument cluster had failed, along with all the electronics in it. Now my dealer has an excellent Saab tech. He consistently places in the top 10 in the Saab Master Mechanics competitions worldwide. If he detected any sign of the PPC being used he certainly didn't mention it, and the instrument cluster was replaced under warraty, despite the fat that there was clear evidence in the dash that I had been there (all the foam).

It's probably a total fluke that the cluster failed minutes after putting the silver trim plate on, or hours after the PPC was put on. Nonetheless, Saab honoured their warranty and the dealer made no fuss. So I think we are worrying too much about our PPC upgrades and denied warranty coverage.

SS
18-04-04, 10:25 PM
So what makes you think that they did find out about the PPC?

LinearSLT
19-04-04, 01:04 AM
They could have easily blamed the PPC for the immobilizer failure if they wanted too. Plus it took them a lot of detailed diagnostics to find the problem. Detailed enough that they should have noticed that the software had been flashed recentl.y

M4Gunner
19-04-04, 01:50 AM
It was driving me nuts and was a major embarrasment on a 42 grand car.

yeah, but don't you guys use monoploy money up there? lol, just joking. i couldnt help it!

SS
19-04-04, 11:25 AM
They could have easily blamed the PPC for the immobilizer failure if they wanted too. Plus it took them a lot of detailed diagnostics to find the problem. Detailed enough that they should have noticed that the software had been flashed recentl.y

You said that they could have easily blamed the PPC, well how do you know that they knew about its existence? Did you tell them about it?

RED
19-04-04, 12:06 PM
You said that they could have easily blamed the PPC, well how do you know that they knew about its existence? Did you tell them about it?

I read his post to mean that IF the ppc mod could be easily discovered, THEN they would have done so. In other words, they either did not know, or don't care, because they did not mention it.

However, I never buy into "negative evidence is evidence of a negative" (for those of you into symbolic logic). If you have no evidence, then you have no logical conclusions. So I personally take his conclusion as his "intuition", and leave it at that.

mav238
19-04-04, 01:12 PM
A few weeks ago, I took it upon myself to chase down many of the rattles in the dash. So I unplugged the battery ground and systematically took the vents, EHU, climate control, SID, instrument panel etc. apart. While I was at it I changed the stock Linear gauge cluster to the one with the silver rings. I got it at the same time I bought my PPC from PFS.

I used weatherstripping (the black foam stuff with the adhesive backing) on all the edges and clips of the dash mounted stuff plus all the places I could get to vibrate inside the dash, including a major wiring harness that goes across the main support beam. That harness can bang against the black support beam in places. I also noticed that the heater ducts rub on that beam and I wedged some foam in between the ducts and the beam. That seems to have eliminated the nasty squeaky sytofoam sound that I had all winter that seemed to come from the two top long dash vents. It was driving me nuts and was a major embarrasment on a 42 grand car.

Anyways, after putting it all together and driving around to see how I did, I pulled back into the driveway and decided to clean up the garage a bit. Upon restarting I got an 'Immobilizer failure' and the car would not start. Called Onstar and they sent a flatbed to tow it to the dealer within an hour. This was Saturday afternoon. But not before I used the PPC to restore my settings to stock.

Monday morning, they spent 3 hours on diagnostics to discover the instrument cluster had failed, along with all the electronics in it. Now my dealer has an excellent Saab tech. He consistently places in the top 10 in the Saab Master Mechanics competitions worldwide. If he detected any sign of the PPC being used he certainly didn't mention it, and the instrument cluster was replaced under warraty, despite the fat that there was clear evidence in the dash that I had been there (all the foam).

It's probably a total fluke that the cluster failed minutes after putting the silver trim plate on, or hours after the PPC was put on. Nonetheless, Saab honoured their warranty and the dealer made no fuss. So I think we are worrying too much about our PPC upgrades and denied warranty coverage.

Hey LinearSLT,

It's good to know your car is fixed with no warranty issues. But could it be just a local thing, that is, your dealer may not fuss about it (because ultimately, if they don't say anything to SAAB, how would SAAB know?). But does that mean all SAAB dealers are inclined to be "helpful"? Again, that also depends if they did founf out about it. And we won't know unless they explicitly actually pointed it out during the servicing.

So, what I am trying to say is, just because they didn't point it out, does not imply SAAB will never have an issue with it.

But at least you are fine with this round of servicing. :)

LinearSLT
19-04-04, 06:40 PM
No I didn't tell them I had installed and uninstalled the PPC.

My dealer's master Tech has been servicing my Saabs for 10 years. he has commented on every single upgrade I have ever made. Airfilters, exhaust, Koni's, springs, brakes, Abbott ECU, you name it. All found by his own observations. He always comes out to talk to me when I come to pick up my car and I always leave him a case of Guinness at Christmas. We talk Saabs, we talk upgrades, we talk little know service updates, TSBs, etc. etc.

If he had seen something odd in the electronic record and diagnostics, he would have mentioned it. Even if it was with a wink.

He didn't. That's all I can say.

Maybe at this years Saab convention they should challenge the Master Techs to see if they can tell whether PPC has been on a car !

sjhudon
19-04-04, 06:45 PM
No I didn't tell them I had installed and uninstalled the PPC.

My dealer's master Tech has been servicing my Saabs for 10 years. he has commented on every single upgrade I have ever made. Airfilters, exhaust, Koni's, springs, brakes, Abbott ECU, you name it. All found by his own observations. He always comes out to talk to me when I come to pick up my car and I always leave him a case of Guinness at Christmas. We talk Saabs, we talk upgrades, we talk little know service updates, TSBs, etc. etc.

If he had seen something odd in the electronic record and diagnostics, he would have mentioned it. Even if it was with a wink.

He didn't. That's all I can say.

Maybe at this years Saab convention they should challenge the Master Techs to see if they can tell whether PPC has been on a car !

You switched out your springs? just the springs or the struts too.... which did you use and where did you get them installed..

pjku79
19-04-04, 09:34 PM
from someone that works in the auto industry, foam is normal....lol

LinearSLT
20-04-04, 01:46 AM
You switched out your springs? just the springs or the struts too.... which did you use and where did you get them installed..

Not on my SS. On my 91 9000 Aero and on my 1995 900 and my 2001 9-3.

CrankCase
20-04-04, 07:39 AM
...including a major wiring harness that goes across the main support beam. That harness can bang against the black support beam in places. I also noticed that the heater ducts rub on that beam and I wedged some foam in between the ducts and the beam. That seems to have eliminated the nasty squeaky sytofoam sound that I had all winter that seemed to come from the two top long dash vents.

I've got that exact squeaking sound, and its driving me nuts. Thought it came from the 2 windshield demister vents, but after reading your post, perhaps not.

I can't picture the beam you mentioned, nor the wiring harness. Could you post some pics pls... I really really want to nail down this squeak :evil: :evil: :evil:

Thanks

LinearSLT
21-04-04, 12:27 PM
I didn't take pictures unfortunately. All the blooody cuts on my fingers made we stay away from my camera.

The beam runs in the dash from left to right and is black and 3-4 inches in diameter. It runs very near the demister vents, just in front of them (toward the cabin). The demister vent rubs on this beam and on the dash. I imagine as things heat up the vent supply manifold expands and wedges itself in better and the squeakes used to get better. I rammed an old tea towel between the dash and the top of the demister supply manifold and adhesive foam between the manifold and the beam. Repeat on drivers side. As far as I can tell, the squeak is gone.

Just had a chance to ride in a friends Accord here in Asilomar California. Quiet as a tomb. Can't believe that Saab can't put a car together this well. Yes the roads are better here than in Ontario and yes I have the sports suspension, but really, Saabs cost a lot more.

Jet 9-3
21-04-04, 01:29 PM
Just had a chance to ride in a friends Accord here in Asilomar California. Quiet as a tomb. Can't believe that Saab can't put a car together this well. Yes the roads are better here than in Ontario and yes I have the sports suspension, but really, Saabs cost a lot more.

Quiet as a tomb and a sport suspension are 2 different goals. Mutually exclusive, at least in this price range

RED
21-04-04, 06:12 PM
My '03 9-3 Vector is totally rattle free. My buddies brand new Acura is not (serves him right :wink: ), and his suspension is much softer.

So, it is just not a good idea to generalize on limited data. But most people just can't help themselves :cheesy: The grass is always greener ...

LinearSLT
22-04-04, 01:06 AM
My wife's '97 900 was very quiet, and her new (used) 2001 9-3 is pretty good, but not as tight. My 9-3 SS and every other 9-3 SS I've driven are pretty bad. Just look at all the complaints here. Entire threads on how to remove door panels, headliners, dash componets etc. That's inexcusable. The Japanese do a better job of screwing their cars together. Saab could learn a thing or two from them. It's not a case of greener grass, it's truth. Frankly the rattle trap build of many Saabs is a major reason why they fare poorly in car tests. While long term owners grow to love them, they just come off as unpolished in short comparo tests.

That said, I love my 9-3SS. Never owned a Japanese car and probably never will. But I can tell you that mid-range Accord I was in was pretty damn classy. The Saab is a better drivers car and that's what I am. A driver. Not a passenger !