The first REAL pictures [Archive]

Hasp

06-04-04, 07:39 AM

Hi everyone,

Thought you guys would like to see some real pictures.

Some info from Car Connection:
Saab at last has the vehicle it hopes will keep some of its buyers from defecting to SUVs of their own. It's Saab's own mid-size SUV, the 2005 9-7X, which bows at the New York Auto Show this week and will be available exclusively in North America.

With the 9-7X Saab is expanding its model lines to four. The Swedish brand is the fastest growing European premium nameplate on the American market, but has been missing the light-truck segment's booming sales. With its own mid-luxury SUV Saab hopes to grab its fair share of that market, which is predicted to be as big as 470,000 units by the end of 2005.

The driving force behind adding the sport-ute was market research that revealed that 39 percent of Saab drivers in the U.S. have a SUV in the household, whereas nearly 30 percent of the Saab customers have left the brand to purchase a four-door SUV.

For the 9-7X Saab had to turn to Chevrolet. The new Saab is technically based on the TrailBlazer/GMC Envoy and will be built in Ohio, becoming the second Saab with the 9-2X that is not assembled in Sweden and will not (yet) be marketed in Europe.

In December, Saab unveiled its 9-2X sports compact, based on the 4WD platform of the Subaru Impreza and built by Fuji Heavy Industries in Japan. Critics, mainly in Europe, thought Saab was going into the wrong direction, by rebadging models from other GM-divisions. But after the presentation of the 9-2X they were not so outspoken anymore. The same applies to the 9-7X, as the Swedes have brought its unique characteristics into the design of its model, both on the exterior as on the interior - for example, the center console ignition key and the distinctive air vents. The cockpit, too, is driver oriented with the instrument panel's center stack and controls angled toward the driver.

The 9-7X has a wheelbase of 113 inches and is 193.4 inches long. The luggage compartment holds up to 41 cubic feet and with the seatback folded down, 80.1 cubic feet. The 60/40 split rear seat is standard, as well as a trailer hitch receiver and cover. The V-8 model is estimated to have a maximum towing capacity of 6500 lb.

The 9-7X is tuned to be more of a driver's vehicle than its American cousins. It uses a uniquely tuned double A-arm front suspension with coil springs and a multi-link, electronically controlled rear air suspension, a low ride height, thick front stabilizer and stiff upper control arm bushings in the rear. Together with a stiffened front section of the frame, a quicker 18.5:1 steering gear ratio is designed to help improve steering precision and responsiveness.

Saab offers the 9-7X with a choice of two engines: the 4.2-liter in-line six with 275 hp and a maximum torque of 275 lb-ft and the 5.3-liter V-8 with 300 hp and 330 lb-ft of torque. Both engines are teamed to a four-speed automatic transmission. On demand all-wheel drive is standard on both models, while traction is enhanced by standard preloaded-clutch limited-slip differential at the rear. Four ventilated disc brakes, with aluminium dual-piston callipers up front and ABS, provide stopping power. Eighteen-inch aluminum wheels are standard (with P255/55 high performance all-season Dunlops), as well as leather trimmed seats, an advanced sound system and dual stage front airbags, head curtain side airbags, front seatbelt pretensioners with load limiters and a rollover sensing system.

Production is scheduled to start in January 2005, at GM's Ohio assembly plant. The price of the Saab 9-7X will be between $37,000 and $45,000.

Enjoy!
/HASP

McG

06-04-04, 07:50 AM

About what everyone expected, no?

They could have done something to clean up the back end...which (predictably) looks a lot like an Envoy.

I thought they would be able to massage that a bit more...

nandanrp

06-04-04, 07:52 AM

Best looking of the Envoy/TB/Ranier lineup IMO.

But wow, if you thought the 9-2X wasn't different enough from the WRX...this beats it. At least from this first glance. This is when the haters begin with their anti-GM posts :P

al aero

06-04-04, 08:25 AM

i really like it, even thought it is a truck i thinks this is what Saab needs, i an not a fan of the 9-2x thingy but this i like, pity we wont get it in Australia!!

TYPE IXXI

06-04-04, 08:59 AM

Where are the darn Pics? Where did they go

Simon

06-04-04, 09:09 AM

It looks as nice as any other SUV I can think of.

TYPE IXXI

06-04-04, 11:24 AM

It had me at hello. it is beautiful. I am sold.

greenphotos

06-04-04, 01:39 PM

I agree, finally a good SUV style car. Well done!

I'm worried that it won't look that good on the standard models though :roll:

Mark
:cheesy:

Jet 9-3

06-04-04, 01:50 PM

Not quite as sleek as the drawings we've seen, but I guess no car is. But I like it a lot. Definitely has the Saab stamp on it

garry

06-04-04, 01:54 PM

Well........
............
............
I really like it
:lol:

It hits all the right buttons.

I was expecting a very American looking 4x4 and the result is a very sleek European rework... That CAN compete with BMW, Landrover and Porsche on a pure aesthetic point of view.

The fact that its a SAAB will also place it head to head with the best from a marketing stance.

By Jingo!.... that is good enough to market in the UK !!.

The 9-2 just does not work by comparison as the base car a Subaru' was simply too unique and respected in its own right. the resulting 9-2 appearing too transparent and to a point embarrassing in its lack of SAAB identity.

Lets hope build and road tests fortify the first impression.
But for now:-

your through to the next round
http://images.usatoday.com/life/_photos/2003/simon-cowell-inside.jpg

8valvegrowl

06-04-04, 02:02 PM

lol...i like it much....except the damn GM truck steering wheel...very good job overall though...kudos to Saab! (Now when do we get that twin turbo I6 or V8 :cheesy: )

CosmicSaab

06-04-04, 02:29 PM

lol...i like it much....except the damn GM truck steering wheel...very good job overall though...kudos to Saab! (Now when do we get that twin turbo I6 or V8 :cheesy: )

The steering wheel was the first thing I noticed. I also see the standard GM midsize SUV gearshift and insurment cluster. I guess we should feel lucky ther are actually putting an emblem on the steering wheel instead of stamping the logo on like they even do in the Cadillac. And oh lord please tell me they are not putting in that God forsaken Bose audio system in it. The Bose systm GM uses is one of the worst stereos in the world, period. Bose or otherwise. Something also makes me thik we will not have the center ignition after all. :(

CosmicSaab

06-04-04, 02:33 PM

I do LOVE the two tone interior though. The interior in general is sharp.

CosmicSaab

06-04-04, 02:36 PM

I just read about the safety and it looks like it should be on target with the Volvo providing they have done something with the crash structure which has performed quite poorly in the TrailBlazer:

http://www.iihs.org/vehicle_ratings/ce/html/0119.htm

edusaab

06-04-04, 03:00 PM

First oficial pics......

http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/?id=23154

http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/images/23156.1.gen.jpg

http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/images/23155.1.gen.jpg

since last weekend in media.gm.com there is a information about the presentation in NY autoshow of the 9-7x, with the banner about the info the pic it is a part of the 9-7x grill

greetings

squishmann

06-04-04, 03:08 PM

it could've been worse.

i do not like the stereo, gear shift and steering wheel

and that fake wood has to go. and what's with this 4-speed transmission? i wish they could have made the rear just a little different. at least we'll have NAVI

http://www.buick.com/images/ra/raX55_567.jpg
http://www.buick.com/images/ra/raX65_567.jpg

squishmann

06-04-04, 03:10 PM

why aren't they showing pics of it's rear?

nandanrp

06-04-04, 03:18 PM

Nice headlights, front end looks good (nice to see they put projector lenses on it).

The "standard" model will look the same from what Hasp posted - the base model comes with the 18" wheels seen.

I prophesized bad comments coming from some of you based on all the whining I have seen in the 9-2X forum...looks like I was wrong. They made the same amount of visual changes on the 9-2X that they did on the 9-7X, yet not one peep about it :P. (Things that were said about the 9-2X that also apply to the 9-7X: same door handles as the Envoy, same mirrors, nearly the same rear end, similar interior treatments, same gauges). What gives, is it just because the vehicle the 9-2X is based on is a Subaru?

Whatever the case, I am a proponent of both vehicles, I think they have done a good job on both.

Mattlach

06-04-04, 03:18 PM

Quite frankly, the styling does not interest me at all.

It doesnt matter where they put the ignition, what the car exterior looks like (save being ugly) and wheter or not they put the emblem on the stering wheel.

What is more interesting to me is will it FEEEL like driving a SAAB or will it feel like driving a dumb american SUV.

"The 9-7X is tuned to be more of a driver's vehicle than its American cousins"

This may be promising, but I am going to reserve judgement until I get a chance to drive one.

Three things I am disappointed in:

- SAAB seats provide some of the best support and long drive comfort of any cars in the world. Its too bad they used the standard GM seats in this car.

- The engines. GM engines are... well... American. They just dont feel refined enough for a SAAB. They make this gurgling noise... :P Granted SAAB really doesn't have an engine that can make a lump of metal this big move, but I would rather have seen something SAAB designed under the hood. Their engines are orders of magnitude better built. If you ask me GM should scrap ALL their other engine plants, and let the SAAB engineers make the engines for the entire company. Their engines are just that much better.

- If this is more of a drivers car than its american cousins, wheres the version with the manual transmission? :cheesy: Is there going to be a 9-7X Aero?

I understand why GM is doing this, but that doesnt make me like it any more :cry: This is just about as un-saab as you get. Saabs are light cars that have great handling, tend to be quite fast, and get great gas milage. The 9-7X is none of that.

Besides, I never understood why people buy SUV's anyway....

Saba

06-04-04, 03:21 PM

why aren't they showing pics of it's rear?Probably for the same reasons they were reluctant to show the rear of the 9-2x. But I like this one. Although based on its price in the US, if it ever did come down under it would be at the top of the table as far as SUV's go. I think I would rather have the Hirsch Performance 9-5 :cheesy:

garry

06-04-04, 03:25 PM

See how colouring the metal black between the driver window and rear passenger window makes all the difference :D sports appeal.... almost a 2 door now :D

From the angles shown it looks like one of the most sporty SUV styling jobs I have seen... A bit like a larger more refined version of a Freelander.

http://autotelegraaf.nl/vanonzeredactie/images/23155.1.gen.jpg

That picture of the base car really does appear to be butt ugly. Looks like the 9-7x will be sharing the rear light clusters and possibly full tailgate (hope the tail lights get reworked as well) :-? ....However the rear IS the best looking part of the base car IMHO :-?

http://www.buick.com/images/ra/raX55_567.jpg

The high waistline of the base car created with the plastic trim and the black painted lower sill seem to have the effect of raising the visual ground clearance, SAAB did well to retain a clean line by removing this nonsense.

Mattlach

06-04-04, 03:32 PM

That picture of the base car really does appear to be butt ugly. Looks like the 9-7x will be sharing the rear light clusters and possibly full tailgate (hope the tail lights get reworked as well) :-? ....However the rear IS the best looking part of the base car IMHO :-?

http://www.buick.com/images/ra/raX55_567.jpg

Uhm.. You talking about the Buick above?

garry

06-04-04, 03:35 PM

I am UK based, we dont get these cars.
Buick is it? :-?

Thought it was the Trailblaser??? .... Looks to share the same lines?

CosmicSaab

06-04-04, 03:42 PM

The rear should be the same as the former Oldsmobile Bravada, whivh means the rear should also look like the Rainer because it too just happened to inherit the A-pillar back of the Bravada.

And Saab has made a lot more changes to this than they did to the 9-2x.

I find that GMs inline 6 is a very refined engine and I think its character fits in perfectly with Saab, the pushrod V8 does not. I would have liked to have seen a 5 or 6 speed automatic but the 4 speed is the only one GM has that is compatible with this setup so I was expecting it.

Mattlach

06-04-04, 03:51 PM

And Saab has made a lot more changes to this than they did to the 9-2x.

I find that GMs inline 6 is a very refined engine and I think its character fits in perfectly with Saab, the pushrod V8 does not.

Too bad they didn't turbo charge the six instead of throwing in that bulky V8, but I'm guessing its all for marketing purposes.

Dumb Americans (and yes, the vast majority of my countrymen are ignorant retards) hear V8, and think BIIIG and start drooling all over themselves, and can't grasp the concept of more powerful smaller engines, which give the vehicle better, more refined character...

Sigh.

CosmicSaab

06-04-04, 04:02 PM

Ehh, I just noticed something. Now I am guessing none of you gave a modern GM SUV, but I do (well my father does, an 04 Tahoe) so I just noticed something. GMs SUVs have been getting the nice little LCD displace below the spedometer that can tell you everything from the CD track number to the fuel economy for 2 different drivers. It is also used with the memory key that has seat settings, etc linked to a key. Both of these were borrowed from Cadillac, but it looks as thoug the 9-7x will not have this. I am saying this because if it did then there would be 4 more buttons on the steering well for contolling these functions, 2 on each of the 2 remaining spokes that do not already have buttons.

edusaab

06-04-04, 04:03 PM

I hate those type of rear lights that com from the Lexus, this is a common stupid "Tunning" feature in spain and I hate that......

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/4869.jpg

http://www.autoweek.nl/images/480/4868.jpg

greetings

CosmicSaab

06-04-04, 04:04 PM

Too bad they didn't turbo charge the six instead of throwing in that bulky V8, but I'm guessing its all for marketing purposes.

Dumb Americans (and yes, the vast majority of my countrymen are ignorant retards) hear V8, and think BIIIG and start drooling all over themselves, and can't grasp the concept of more powerful smaller engines, which give the vehicle better, more refined character...

Sigh.

Chevy did a twin turbo version of the 4200 in the T-Blazer and got like 450 horses out of it. That sucker was fast.

saabfan

06-04-04, 04:04 PM

Thanks to all who posted pics.

Wow - the 9-7X does VERY little for me. Sorry, I just don't like it, and I'm not anti-GM or anti-SUV. I will reserve full judgment until I see it in the flesh, but as of now I am GLAD that it's just a stop-gap model.

The interior, especially the wheel, SCREAMS GM.

BTW, does anyone have access to Saab Media where they might have posted many more pics, including more interior shots?

Thanks.

CosmicSaab

06-04-04, 04:08 PM

Looks like an Acura MDX from the back.

Mattlach

06-04-04, 04:09 PM

GMs SUVs have been getting the nice little LCD displace below the spedometer that can tell you everything from the CD track number to the fuel economy for 2 different drivers.

Wow. Thats disappointing. Given SAABs SID system you'd think they would have insisted on including this in the 9-7X...

maybe they have found a ew way of controlling it though. Different buttons...

edusaab

06-04-04, 04:19 PM

in saab media they don't put nothing at the moment....... I hope tomorrow or tonight(at GMT+2, here in spain, now it is 17:16 :cheesy: ) they will put all the official info.

greetings

saabfan

06-04-04, 04:27 PM

Thanks edu, I appreciate you checking Saab Media. And I agree completely about the rear lights. They scream racer!

CosmicSaab

06-04-04, 04:29 PM

Thanks edu, I appreciate you checking Saab Media. And I agree completely about the rear lights. They scream racer!

ricer

squishmann

06-04-04, 04:30 PM

Looks like an Acura MDX from the back.

that's what i said as soon as i saw it.

TERRIBLE :(

the back looks like an '03 MDX with the '04 tail lights

and you know there are no LEDs

saabfan

06-04-04, 04:36 PM

Thanks edu, I appreciate you checking Saab Media. And I agree completely about the rear lights. They scream racer!

ricer

:cheesy: Haha, I agree, but sadly I was trying to be PC. Shame on me, SaabFan! :nono;

Thad

06-04-04, 04:51 PM

I think the lack of side moldings really help to different this from the other GM models. Also while I agree the clear tail lights can look a bit "rice", they do in this instace carry the theme started by the exposed front lights. I think the interior looks much better than I expected, but I hope the materials are nicer than the average GM version. I did read that the ignition is definitely off of the dash. All in all not too bad, better than I expected, and a better job of differentation than the 9-2X.

squishmann

06-04-04, 05:10 PM

but whats bad are the shape of the lights they are almost an exact copy from the MDX.

finklejag

06-04-04, 06:11 PM

http://home.comcast.net/~mlwhite21/1.jpg

http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/edweb/hellwig/gmsuv/media/b.jpg

At least they changed the center stack and the ugly GM battleship gray interior color.

stickline

06-04-04, 06:18 PM

I am a huge SUV fan. I loved the Trailblazer when it came out and still think that it's a good looking truck (not in extended form though, that's just terrible). Between my '82 900T and my current '03 9-3SS, I owned a '98 Wrangler and a '98 Blazer. Add into the mix that I'm a GM fan from birth.

That being said, I'm still very lukewarm on this truck. I see the reason for it, and I'm not opposed to a Saab SUV, however, everytime I see the 9-7x, I can't stop thinking of how much better of a vehicle it would have been with the Cadillac SRX platform. If Saab were to build an SUV from the ground up, why would Saab want a truck-based vehicle? Wouldn't the average Saab driver prever the performance potential of a car-based SUV? I know that as a Saab driver, I certainly would want that......and the 450-hp twin-turbo I-6! :o

saabfan

06-04-04, 06:37 PM

Couldn't they have at least changed the steering wheel to something more befitting of a Saab?

stickline, I had read that Saab originally developed an SUV off of the Cadillac platform but that it would've outperformed and out-shined Caddy's version and GM would have none of that. Pity we get the lame duck version instead.

nandanrp

06-04-04, 06:44 PM

I can't stop thinking of how much better of a vehicle it would have been with the Cadillac SRX platform.

I have driven an SRX V-8 (Northstar, this is a good engine) with a 5-speed automatic (also has tapshift sport shifting). I drove a Cadillac CTS 5MT for 4 months, and wow, that car can hustle. The CTS handles really well, and the power was adequet (2003 had the smaller displacement lower-power motor). I wasn't sure what to expect from the SRX.

I strapped in and took it around some twisties - now I am a strickly manual transmission person - but this was one of the best automatics I have driven (along with the Cadillac XLR). The V-8 just surged effortless power and the shifts were really smooth, and it held gear and downshifted nicely too. It handles more or less like the CTS (yes, they share the same platform) - I didn't get to push it too much, but it was a great ride. What would have been interesting is a Saab variant on the sigma platform, except using the base 3.6L VVT V6 from the SRX, turbocharged for an Aero version. That would have been sweet, considering they could have used the upcoming 6MT from the CTS as well (maybe). Oh well, maybe in it's next iteration... :wink:

finklejag

06-04-04, 06:45 PM

The steering wheel looks to be a little different. The current steering wheel in the 9-3 would of looked better.

garry

06-04-04, 06:54 PM

In the UK:-
As we get none of the US 4x4 cars talked about in this thread, I am sure that if this SAAB version of the GM platform is marketed over here it would be an instant success.
Only one feature that could be improved, the rear lights. They make the car look too much like a Suzuki Vitara from the back.
One solution would be to extend the light cluster split onto the tailgate as applied to the c900 hatchback... or extend the light cluster out of the form and into the bumper area.

The c900 way would instantly SAABify the rear end when also made yellow/red...look:-

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/design_jon/SAAB/Lights_camera.jpg

sjhudon

06-04-04, 06:56 PM

I'm pretty indifferent about this 9-7, not really a big SUV fan. But Garry that picture you have is disturbing! :o :lol:

CosmicSaab

06-04-04, 07:02 PM

This is a pic of the 9-7x and the GMC Envoy interior. I imagine that the interior is based off the Envoy's and not the TBlazer's because the Envoy is just a lot nicer.

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/files/04125c_small.jpg

http://www.gmc.com/gmcjsp/envoy/images/brand_photo14.jpg

garry

06-04-04, 07:08 PM

I now know that a better 4x4 platform exists... the platform Cadillac are using?????..

I could understand GM wanting to stop SAAB using it in the USA but as Cadillac effectively don't exist anywhere else in the world why restrict SAAB using it worldwide? (excluding the US market) ???????

As Cadillac only sold 5000 cars outside the USA last year then the best platform should go to a company capable of best exploiting the technology ..... SAAB :D

anyway, this car looks good enough for the UK market aestheticaly...
SAAB again working a miracle with a so called inferior base.

stickline

06-04-04, 07:34 PM

saabfan,

I too had heard that the original 9-7x as supposed to be based on GM's sigma platform. I was bummed to learn that the production model would be a Chevy though. I heard that when the Saab engineers got their hands on the Cadillac SRX, they made a truly unique SUV that outshined the SRX. In my opinion, that's too bad that the platform was pulled. I understand GM's committment to the Cadillac brand, I think they've done wonders to it's image. I just believe that Saab should be competing with Cadillac, BMW, Volvo, M-B, Acura, Lexus in the lux-XUV category, not Chevy, GMC, Ford, etc.

I'm still holding out hope that this vehicle will sell rapidly, make millions for Saab, and as a result, allow for a truly innovative turbo-charged 9-7x in 5 years. That's one SUV that I'd buy in a heartbeat.

I do love the interior of this version though.....

edusaab

06-04-04, 07:37 PM

Jet 9-3

06-04-04, 07:58 PM

but whats bad are the shape of the lights they are almost an exact copy from the MDX.

Why bad? The MDX is one of the best looking SUV's around :roll:

SentraSR20

06-04-04, 08:50 PM

I actually like it a lot. They did a good job, stylistically, for sure. I'm glad they changed the center stack in the interio. It's one of my least favorite things about the Trailblazer. :wink:

hagfish7

06-04-04, 08:56 PM

It looks like they have one of those fancy albeit useless Saab fold out cupholders in the dash. Looks like the 9-5 one. :)

Hasp

06-04-04, 08:58 PM

Some more pictures...

/Hasp

saabfan

06-04-04, 09:19 PM

Thanks for the added shots, Hasp. If the ignition is where I think it is people are going to have a hard time getting enough torque to start the car!

Nairda

06-04-04, 11:36 PM

Looks pretty good to me, at least they changed the interior
enough to make it Saabish, steering wheel kinda sucks though.
The only thing missing now is a low pressure turbo attached
to the 4.2L straight 6.

chico_85

06-04-04, 11:37 PM

I think Saab has done a pretty good job on the interior. It looks very much like the 9-3SS's interior. The exterior is very nice as well. Overall I'm pleased with it. It could have been worse. Kudos to Saab for turning that ugly thing into a really nice looking car. :wink:

CosmicSaab

07-04-04, 12:00 AM

Upon closer inspection the steering wheel has been changed some from "normal." The center section design has changed and has a hint of the 9-3SS' center section. The wheel and spokes, while mostly like that of the "normal" version, have also changes slightly as well. The spokes are slightly less square and the wheel rim looks to be thicker.

garry

07-04-04, 12:51 AM

Sabfan, this is true...... Saab devoloped a SUV based on the Cadillac platform, but GM didn't aproved, one of the reasons was that the Saab project was better in all aspects than the Cadillac and that was... :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: for Cadillac and GM.

Now that is pure idiocy.

I never realized SAAB had actually got their hands on the hardware.. Why were SAAB not allowed to progress with the SUV based on the Cadillac platform for GM's international market?!"? :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil: After all internationally outside the USA such a SUV would not be competing against Cadillac :! :! :! :! as Cadillac effectively don't exist outside the USA.

What a waste of time and funds.. and highly narrow minded :evil:

GM didn't approved, one of the reasons was that the Saab project was better in all aspects than the Cadillac

SAAB Not only the better design but the only GM brand capable of selling such a luxury vehicle outside the USA.

I can see what is about to happen with this new 9-7x. The international press (maybe not the USA) will rightly assume it is in competition with BMW and Mercedes (as this is commonly known as SAAB territory outside the USA :roll: ) but will quickly realize that although SAAB have done a fine job the platform constrictions will yet again let them down.

Hey GM!? ....Where do you want SAAB. ? Not where everyone else thinks it should be :roll: (USA market excluded :roll: )

saabfan

07-04-04, 01:24 AM

SaabScott

07-04-04, 01:37 AM

Before Saab will be able to develop new cars, they are going to have to find a way to turn a profit ... or at least not loose GM more money.

GM has done the hybrid thing (9-2x and 9-7x) in an effort to boost (no pun intended) Saabs revenue intake ... and since they are anticipating a doubling of sales with these 2 new vehicles, they are hoping to see an influx of cash that will at least stop the bleeding.

Just a word of caution folks ... lets keep this thread civil, lest it be locked.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion ... lets not get into a fight aabout it.

garry

07-04-04, 01:57 AM

Garry, do you realize how expensive it would be to develop (fully) TWO 9-7s?

SUVs aren't big sellers overseas, anyway (especially in Europe), so the idea of developing and producing a 9-7 solely for the non-North America market makes little to no sense.

I just think its a shame that SAAB were half way down a development road with one platform then were told to use another because their work was too good ????
As I see it GM have a fully developed Cadillac SUV that will be a nightmare for them to sell outside north America. By replacing the badges with SAAB ones, a new front grill/bumpers and some cosmetics GM could offer this car to the world as a SAAB. and people would buy them by contrast.
north America gets the Cadillac SUV and the 9-7x, the rest of the world gets a Cadillac based SUV the 9-8x?
This would help GM make good financial use of the platform as Cadillac are loosing GM money overseas.

Far too late it seems for GM to reverse the decision, especially as this 9-7x looks like a winner.

SUV are quite popular in the UK, we have seen a lot of growth in this sector... So popular I would bet that Saab could sell at least 5001 next year in the UK alone :D

finklejag

07-04-04, 03:00 AM

So popular I would bet that Saab could sell at least 5001 next year in the UK alone

:lol:

me3head

07-04-04, 07:12 AM

riiight. anyone who thinks that GM would allow a vehicle enginnered fully enough to be called "better" than the SRX and then kill it has no idea how the industry works.

I would put money on the following scenario:

Bob Lutz: We need a SAAB suv by MY2005
Saab engineers: Well, on that timeframe we can only do a slightly modified version of an existing car. Looks like we have the SRX or the GMT360.
Saab design: unless we can change all the sheet metal and the interior, the caddy is too distinctive to rebadge.
Marketing: Plus, MANY dealers sell Caddys and SAABs in one place, so they cant look too similar.
Saab engineers: Well, looks like our only choice is the GMT360. Its a good platform, and it will allow us to meet our marketing and time to market objectives.

The only other option I can see would be waiting till MY2007 for a SAAB SUV. Or maybe a theta (equinox, vue) based vehicle. But this would be too small for a near-lux brand.

garry

07-04-04, 10:48 AM

the caddy is too distinctive to rebadge.

Not outside the USA. Nobody has any idea what a post 70's Cadillac looks like.
Put a Honda badge on it and anyone will believe it.

Although only hypothetical. If it were rebadged it would not be killing this GM SUV platform off, it would be expanding the boundaries of GM's investment allowing the platform to sell in volume outside the USA as a SAAB maintaining Cadillac jobs.

Trying to sell a Cadillac as a Cadillac outside the USA is like trying to flog a dead horse.

SentraSR20

07-04-04, 11:30 AM

Well, since most SUV's are sold primarily in the USA, obviously GM will be focusing and orienting it's SUV efforts towards the US Market.

Garry - The Trailblazer (GMT360) Platform is much cheaper to use than the SRX platform. One big reason is because there are so many variants of the GMT 360, that parts are dirt cheap to manufacture (especially with most of the mechanical tooling done). It allows GM to produce yet another SUV at minimal cost to them.

On a side note, Cadillac has pulled off a lazarus act of sorts in the past years. It was sparked with the Catera (The Caddy that zigs.. :cheesy:), but quickly died out. Finally, the Escalade came out and sold extremely well to an increasingly mobile and affluent youth. This started to move Cadillac's average age of the buyer down, which is important in trying to bring new people into the brand. The Escalade made this possible, as their staple models (the Seville and Deville) simply weren't doing it. The CTS continued the movement and now Cadillac, once thought of as a stubborn, stodgy old brand, is suddenly producing and selling cars like the SRX and XLR! The point? Marketing, and having a great product to market is key if you want to increase a brand's exposure. If GM started focusing efforts on marketing the Cadillac lineup in the UK now, I bet you a year from now it would be a household name... :wink: Now why don't they? Well, I'm not exactly sure, but I'm sure someone on this board has the reason.

Regardless, from the pictures above, it looks like the rebadging is much less blatant than the Isuzu Ascender, which s a great thing. Plus, it even looks like they finally side bolsters to the front seats! :wink: The Chevy Trailblazer's front seats are flat as boards - no lateral support whatsoever.

squishmann

07-04-04, 01:35 PM

the 9-7X could have been worse. it's not going to cost saab as much and the SRX platfom would've.

in five years or so we will get something better.

i think women by 60-70% of the SUVs out there anyway so they won't care. as long as it has nice colors.

in all of the suvs that I have sold(MDX/Touareg) a woman has had the final say.

cswerin

07-04-04, 02:37 PM

http://www.dn.se/content/1/c6/25/24/95/Saab9-7XIN463.jpg

USNA '00

07-04-04, 03:09 PM

garry

07-04-04, 03:26 PM

If GM started focusing efforts on marketing the Cadillac lineup in the UK now, I bet you a year from now it would be a household name

.

I suppose they would require a national dealer network first :roll: ..guess who would have to offer showroom space :roll: I can't imaging GM wanting to associate its cars along side Vauxhall/Opel models.
It has took SAAB decades to build its dealer network in the UK, these things just don't happen overnight.
Based on last years UK Cadillac sales (which I assume would be 5000 divided by???...at a guess 10 to be kind) why would any management team decide to create a national network from scratch....?

Would it be worth Cadillac investing in custom dealership showrooms to promote the New Cadillac in the UK ? That sort of investment would cost a fortune to initiate when considering a fully independent brand launch/re-launch.

I don't think there is room for SAAB and Cadillac in Europe. The existence of both place both in a compromised position.

I look forward to more news about the 9-7x though.. Regardless of this GM issue I sincerely think the 9-7x looks great!
Even if the platform could have been better I could see it compete with BMW over here in the UK_which would offer further competition to Cadillac if they decide to market their SUV in the UK...For Example:-

Who's showroom will they use?????????

One way or another the Cadillac SUV will probably end up in a SAAB show room if it ever hits UK shores.... It may as well have a SAAB badge on it when it does as Europe associate with SAAB, the brand and image (in Europe) is not only fully developed in the luxury market but growing very strong.

Stuart

07-04-04, 04:59 PM

Anyone fancy a booze cruise - I wonder how much booze you can get in the back of it..?

Saline

07-04-04, 07:07 PM

Just checking this all out for the first time - one thing I notice is that Saab has done the best job with the rear end on this platform. The Trailblazer, etc, have the worst rear finish (or lack of). The big muffler can hanging off the back looks like heck. The Saab rear is nicely styled at the bottom.

me3head

07-04-04, 07:09 PM

I meant that you couldn't put a new nose on the SRX cause it would look funny. Thats what I meant by distinctive.

garry

07-04-04, 07:44 PM

SentraSR20

07-04-04, 11:50 PM

I meant that you couldn't put a new nose on the SRX cause it would look funny. Thats what I meant by distinctive.

Point taken.

About noses though, The saab nose is shaping up to be quite distinctive throughout the range.. Although still retaining the SAAB grill it certainly borrows from BMW and audi... In a way it makes it look as if BMW and Audi are trying to match the sleek up to date SAAB look with the newer models they are producing.

It would only appear that way (that BMW and Audi are trying to match Saab) to an person who doesn't even have a basic knowledge base of cars :wink:. I think people will still say "Hey, that Saab looks like a BMW (or Audi)" not "Hey, that BMW (Audi) looks like a Saab!" Get it? :D

Regardless, when I first saw the new 9-3SS, I saw a resemblance to the B5 Passat front end (generation before the current one). As a whole though, I think the 9-3SS is one of the most handsome 4-door Sedans (Saloon for you, Garry :wink:) available now in the US.

Garry - My point with stating that GM could, in a year, create markedly more interest in Cadillac in plaes like the UK was to point out the effectiveness of marketing and having a great product to back that marketing up. Cadillac vehicles have been shaping up to be some of the nicest, sleekest, and dare I say "modern" cars/SUV's on the road today. It certainly wouldn't be too hard to market a car like the CTS in Europe, I'm assuming.

Of course, you need the dealer network, obviously, but that didn't stop Honda from entering a market they were completely foreign to in the late 50's/early 60's :wink:.

PaulH

08-04-04, 04:43 AM

well i was scared when i heard about the 9-7 at first, but now that i see the pics...i like it

it needs a turbo though.
:cheesy:

Paul

squishmann

08-04-04, 06:06 AM

it has grown on me now that i see the other pics. not bad at all. and it has some nice standard features and options for it's price range

i agree, turbo charge it. but i think they have to save something for later.

we need more interior shots not just those two pics. i am big on interiors. i still think it should have been called the 9-6X. they should have left 9-7 for a larger sedan

everyone else has an interval of 2

s40,s60,s80
3,5,7
a4,a6,a8

saab fudged up with the alpha numeric stuff.

saabfan

08-04-04, 07:11 AM

I don't think Saab's nomenclature is too bad.

9-1: Roadster
9-2: Compact Wagon (for now)
9-3: Compact Sports Sedan / SportWagon / Convertible
9-4: ???
9-5: Medium-sized Sports Sedan / SportWagon
9-6: Full-sized Luxury Sedan
9-7: Medium-sized SUV
9-8: Full-sized SUV
9-9: Something real special

X added to all vehicles featuring AWD.

Or maybe in the next iteration of the 9-5 could be called the 9-6, and the subsequent 9-3 called the 9-4. Thus the sedans would be evens (4/6/8) and SUVs would be odd (7/9).

SentraSR20

08-04-04, 11:36 AM

Saabfan - Good theory! :wink: Certainly plausible, I would think.

For those that say Turbocharge the engine, is 275 HP not enough for you?!? :cheesy: :wink:

Actually, to be honest, the Trailblazer engine is an extremely smooth unit thanks to it's Inline-6 configuration. The power delivery is very linear and when you mash on the throttle it does take off like a bat out of hell - at least for an SUV.. :wink: More power is never a bad thing (in my mind), but I think GM probably would dump the V8 in there instead of spending money on the R&D associated with producing a turbocharged production engine.

CosmicSaab

08-04-04, 03:23 PM

we need more interior shots not just those two pics. i am big on interiors. i still think it should have been called the 9-6X. they should have left 9-7 for a larger sedan

everyone else has an interval of 2

s40,s60,s80
3,5,7
a4,a6,a8

saab fudged up with the alpha numeric stuff.

I agree, the SUV should have been the 9-6 and 9-7 should have been a sedan that is a LS430 competitor in size.

fabric

08-04-04, 05:14 PM

On a side note, Cadillac has pulled off a lazarus act of sorts in the past years. It was sparked with the Catera (The Caddy that zigs.. :cheesy:), but quickly died out. Finally, the Escalade came out and sold extremely well to an increasingly mobile and affluent youth. This started to move Cadillac's average age of the buyer down, which is important in trying to bring new people into the brand. The Escalade made this possible, as their staple models (the Seville and Deville) simply weren't doing it. The CTS continued the movement and now Cadillac, once thought of as a stubborn, stodgy old brand, is suddenly producing and selling cars like the SRX and XLR!

I had an interesting converstaion with the receptionist at the dealer I got my Saab from. It's in a fairly affluent part of the Chicagoland area, but she was suprised to see me and my wife there, as their clientele was almost exclusively older people and gay men.

SentraSR20

08-04-04, 05:25 PM

Clientele for the Saab dealer fit that demographic you're saying? :-??

freAK47

08-04-04, 05:45 PM

the rear looks like a mercedes-benz m-class...
but i like the design

CleveSaab

08-04-04, 08:54 PM

9-9: Something real special

New Sonnet perhaps??? :D

CosmicSaab

08-04-04, 10:00 PM

9-9: Something real special

New Sonnet perhaps??? :D

:idea :idea :idea Ooo, or maybe a Mercedes-Benz SL-Class competitor!!! With a power folding hard top and a V12!!! That would be great, especially if it looked even half as good as the SL!!! (God I love the SL :! )

zingZACH

08-04-04, 11:06 PM

zingZACH

08-04-04, 11:13 PM

...... Saab devoloped a SUV based on the Cadillac platform, but GM didn't aproved, one of the reasons was that the Saab project was better in all aspects than the Cadillac and that was... for Cadillac and GM.

yeah, and you watch.... in the next year, GM will have a Cadillac that will have the features the 9-7X would have... I seriously think GM hangs on to Saab is because they give them good ideas, don't let them use it in the saab, but use it in their other GM products... total bullsh*t if you ask me... :evil:

garry

09-04-04, 01:18 AM

SAAB invent, ---GM can use that;

Effectively SAAB are the luxury sector, outside the USA.

:o :o :o :o :o :o :o
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

squishmann

09-04-04, 11:46 PM

You'd think they would have at least made the lenses of the blinkers on the mirrors clear instead of keeping them the same amber on all the other GM versions...at least that would blend in with the front end.

that was my first comment as well.... I just dont know why they chose amber indicators... the taillamps are clear, why not make the indicators? I dont know... oh well. I also didnt like the fact of the non-existant front bumper.

they had to do amber b/c that is a requirement on U.S. vehicles

it has to be somewhere in the front, some type of reflector. if they put it in the headlamp assembly then it would look a lot like the MDX

USNA '00

11-04-04, 07:23 AM

Those mirror blinkers are required for all SUV's now? I guess I can see why they're amber, but they still look bad. :-)

squishmann

12-04-04, 03:12 AM

MyOwnRoad

12-04-04, 03:15 AM

the mirror blinkers aren't required, it's a GM thing

I'm pretty sure I saw these on Mercedes cars first before anyone else did.

squishmann

12-04-04, 06:00 AM

i meant it's a standard thing on that SUV all of the others have it(tblazer,rainier,envoy)

i know mercedes was the first to start it.

CosmicSaab

12-04-04, 02:28 PM

the mirror blinkers aren't required, it's a GM thing

the vehicle at the show had the orange reflectors in the headlamp assembly. so i am not sure why they choose to leave the orange in the mirrors. since the headlights make it legal.
i guess it's a cost thing

You would think it would cost less to make clear ones, no orange dye!

Dumb@sses. Inexpensive changes to things like that help.

Lodro

12-04-04, 06:44 PM

or does the thing look a bit like an over-grown Forester? :-)

Still must admit they did an ok job given available resources and short product cycle. I think a real Saab sterring wheel would have helped a lot and I definetly agree about the fugly yellow side-view mirror turnin indicators.

Ah well, quite unlikely I would ever buy an SUV anyway, even though I actually live where one could be occasionaly useful.

sado

26-04-04, 09:19 PM

Find the difference... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/files/04113c_small.jpg

http://www.ssanpete.k12.ut.us/mhs/misc/olympics/trailblazer.jpg

nasaab2.3

26-04-04, 09:34 PM

wow, i only read the first page, and i find it really odd that everyone seems to like the looks of this trailblazer... i mean 9-7x

i personally think that this would be much better if they completely designed it from the ground up, like volvo did with their xc-90

but a few of my friends and i said that this was just a first gen, and that's why they are using a lot of gm products, ie engine and chassis, and that the second gen will probably offer a completely different look, new engine options, and make it more like a saab.

~justin

sethsev7n

26-04-04, 09:50 PM

I disagree, since GM thinks that their parts are superior i doubt they will buy any parts from europe to stick on the 9-7

nasaab2.3

26-04-04, 10:15 PM

it doesn't matter where the parts are made, gm thinks their better thats fine, but if thats the case, why didn't they use the trailblazer chassis for the caddy srx? easy, cause caddy has the money to completely design a car from the ground up, saab doesn't, so they have to use gm stuff until they get back on their feet to which then they can build and design their own stuff

~justin

CosmicSaab

27-04-04, 12:40 AM

Find the difference... :evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/files/04113c_small.jpg

http://www.ssanpete.k12.ut.us/mhs/misc/olympics/trailblazer.jpg

Well..

First the foor line is different, next the front is all Saab, the wheels are different, the body panels are totally different, Hell, just look at the wheel wells, the TB's are squared off and the 9-7's are rounded. Tail lights are also different. The pic of the blazer is of very poor quality, so it is difficlut out point out the other differences, but I can keep going.

Brewman013

27-04-04, 09:08 PM

The next generation 9.7X will definitely be more Saablike, with our engines, interior, body panels etc. Probably in 2007 as a 2008 model.

fabric

27-04-04, 09:23 PM

CosmicSaab

27-04-04, 10:45 PM

Fortunately, the 9-7 has a more normal looking integrated roof rack. All these GM360s have these awful looking things. I know in the 7 passenger version it's to disguise the roof hump that gives extra headroom, but they kept that look on the shorter version, I guess for some kind of model continuity? Either way it looks awful.

Putting a proper looking rack on top goes a long way towards improving the looks.

The GMT360 essentially comes in 3 flavors, the TBlazer, The Envoy/Ascender, and the Rainer/9-7x, the roof (and body) panels, and thus the roof rack are different between the 3 "flavors." So the 9-7x and Rainer *should* be getting a different roof rach than the TBlazer (which has the most plasticy interior I have ever seen). At least in theory they should be different. But I guess you just said that so I'm not sure why I just typed all of this. :-?

fabric

27-04-04, 10:56 PM

[quote="E715" The Envoy/Ascender,[/quote]

The Ascender? I had never heard of it, I see it's the Isuzu hand-me-down. Saab's not the one who got the Shaft on this bit of badge engineering.

http://www.isuzu.com/ascender.jsp

finklejag

27-04-04, 11:52 PM

Isuzu is pulling out of the US market. Mitsubishi isn't too far behind. The last good Isuzu in the US was the Impluse. Subaru has been building Isuzu's in Indiana for years.

CosmicSaab

28-04-04, 12:46 AM

Isuzu is pulling out of the US market. Mitsubishi isn't too far behind. The last good Isuzu in the US was the Impluse. Subaru has been building Isuzu's in Indiana for years.

Isuzu claims to be staying. I'm not sure about Mitsubishi though, their financial situition just went down the crapper, but the US is such an important market, and they have invested a lot in it.

A note about the Ascender: from what I know it is built in Japan, it is a GM design made with Japanese parts!

fabric

28-04-04, 01:54 PM

Isuzu claims to be staying. I'm not sure about Mitsubishi though, their financial situition just went down the ***, but the US is such an important market, and they have invested a lot in it.

Mitsu is still mostly owned by DaimlerChrysler, right?

A note about the Ascender: from what I know it is built in Japan, it is a GM design made with Japanese parts!

??? Are they planning to sell these in Japan or the Asia Pacific market? This makes no sense.

CosmicSaab

28-04-04, 02:32 PM

Mitsu is still mostly owned by DaimlerChrysler, right?

37%

??? Are they planning to sell these in Japan or the Asia Pacific market? This makes no sense.

Never mind. Last time on MSN autos it said it was built in Japan, now it says it is built in the U.S.

Lodro

29-04-04, 04:11 AM

Mitsu is still mostly owned by DaimlerChrysler, right?

Nominally, but DC has decided to take a pass more or less on their stake. They just decided to cut out on a bailout plan that involved a signifcant cash infusion -- its now down to Mitsu's sister companies and Japanese banks to keep Mitsubishi Cars alive. Any financial restructuring will likely mean that DC's stake will be significantly diluted and they've given up any significant role in management. At the moment, Mitsubishi's future doesn't look very bright. As alway's its come down to product, and the only birght light on that front has been the Evo. (Product is king, Saab, _please_ take note.)

More detaiuls can be found on many sites, inclusing autoweek, detroit free press, etc..