V8 conversion [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: V8 conversion


Spike
13-06-02, 05:28 AM
Has any one got any info on how people have put in V8's

tom
13-06-02, 06:19 AM
I would imagine that fitting a V8 to a c900 would be very difficult and expensive. First of all, it is a fwd car, so it should be converted to a rwd to fit a V8 with tranny.

fitting the V8 to the c900 original tranny would be difficult and the tranny won't take the load.

And personally I don't like the idea of a V8 saab. I don't even understand why people love a V8. It's heavy, fuel consumption is very high.

Simon
13-06-02, 06:50 AM
Here you go.....

http://www.saabcentral.com/features/saab_900/misc/crazy_swedes.php

Simon.

Eric van Spelde
13-06-02, 07:10 AM
I have to agree - it's the engine that makes a Saab Turbo - the sound, the way it delivers the power, the way it doesn't corrupt the car's agility and practicality with excess weight. Besides, the 4 cylinder turbo can be made to dish out far more than the rest of the car can safely handle (Per Eklunds Pikes Peak 9-3 put out 750 hp using standard 2.0 litre Saab block and head castings...

Degrading your Saab 900 to a Mustand in drag is just plain boring. If you want to do something special, do a twin engined 900 conversion. Weld in the front clip with engine mounts and suspension at the back, and put in a second turbo engine. If you can deal with hacking up a FWD chassis to accept a different engine, transmission, propshaft and rear diff/axle assembly, a project like that should be well within reach.

Happy Saabing,
Eric
http://www.turboteameurope.com

Paco
13-06-02, 07:20 AM
There is a compact V8 that could easily (relatively) be adapted to drop in to a 900, it is transverse, has it's gearbox packaged in, develops 255 bhp at 7,800rpm and is bullet-proof provided it's maintained properly. Oh and it has an alloy block and heads to help the weight thing. And it is possibly the best sounding V8 built. Usually fitted to 308 Ferraris so not always cheap...(ignore the ones in Lancia 8.32's, only 210 bhp).

Lamborghini Muira's had a transverse V12 with combined gearbox.....hmmmmmm......

Eric van Spelde
13-06-02, 02:04 PM
I'm not impressed. It's only got a pathetic 280 Nm torque, and a mahor service costs the same as a complete Saab B234 engine which blows the doors of the Ferrari with a Hirsch or Nordic chip.

Of course, it doesn't fit a c900, but there are ways to get the capacity in a B202 block (oh sh*t, I'm lifting the veil off the plot way too early. Um, just keep an eye on Project Saabine within the next six months or so, OK?) :wink:

Spike
14-06-02, 12:34 AM
Hi, thanks for ansering so quickly.
i think simon is on track. i do realise that it will waight heaps! but i am really ony going to be using this to convert other non-Saab-belivers.
i figure if the distance from the clutch center to the crankcase bottom is the same or less, thei can put in an adaptor plate. or grind out the attaching point on the gearbox, redesing another point, and increase the capacity of the sump.
Thanks

Smackrazor
14-06-02, 12:55 AM
I think that the big block chevy engines which people tend to use have 500hp or 550hp depending. I was looking at the prices in a magazine and they were about $3000 a piece so you might consider just putting that money into something else.

Edit:

As for these Hirsch or Nordic chips are they just for the NG900 Engines or do they make chips for the classic B202s?
_________________
Smackrazor
1990 900S - Totalled

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Smackrazor on Jun 14, 2002 5:59am ]</font>

Spike
14-06-02, 02:16 AM
if you do not belive in this transplant,then please tell me how to make this 900 bullet-proof

Paco
14-06-02, 09:39 AM
Hurry up Eric!!! Sounds intriguing..... I freely admit the main thing that I miss from the Ferrari is the noise(intake and exhaust), and that you have to red-line it to get max. power, therefore you have to make as much of that lovely noise as possible! I certainly don't miss the bills. I love the Saab's muted burble, but it sounds a bit thrashy over 3800 rpm. Unfortunately a nice sounding exhaust will be about 50% of the value of the car.

tom
01-07-02, 03:28 AM
spike,

The c900 engine is bulletproof. It can hold 300hp easily. Only problem is the tranny. It will break with 200hp=)

I've heard about 750hp NG900 using the standard engine block. It still has the same triumph based engine that is used in the OG900s.

Spike
13-07-02, 06:35 AM
thanks,
well thats pleanty for what i need. but do you have any links to the people that have proven this, i would like to talk to them. or someone that can rebuild trannys.

to Eric, it is a good solution to put it in the back, but how to change gears. do you boar through the front and conect the linkeges that way.
Seeya.

jimbob
13-07-02, 03:56 PM
I like the idea of an extra engine in the back. I bet the linkage could be worked out where it travels under or down the side of the gearbox and works on a pivot at the back. Not saying it would be easy mind. I found some pictures from a popular car magazine showing a Citroen 2CV which was actually built at the factory. It looks as if they turned the engine around at the back. Not that anyone should take any notice of what Citroen does.
Jimbob

jimbob
13-07-02, 04:04 PM
Sorry, I don't know how to down load the pictures.

Dr Rock
03-08-02, 05:14 PM
Simon,

I've seen the black V8 900 in action you posted a link to. It's well cool. The driver sits in the back seat area! Beat the Yanks easily and even my beloved VW's as well. Very smooth off the line. Something like 500 horsepower. Mmm....

saab90089
12-09-02, 03:50 PM
ok, if your going to try and put v-8 in a saab, then just get a stupid mustang and be done with it.
If you want a saab, then keep it a saab. The whole point to the turbo was to have the power of a large V-6 when you needed and the miles per gallon when you didn't need the horsepower.
My dad could play with small block corvettes when he tweeked the Hot Box on his 87 turbo. If you ask me that is damn fast enough. Beside the saab isn't designed for the stupid 1/4 mile, which is why most people get a v-8 type car. I mean we all know how hard it is to push a gas pedle down and keep a car in a straight line (scarcasim implied here).

be a true saab owner and take it down some twistey hilly back roads.
ian

87SPGIN
13-09-02, 12:34 PM
one of the earlier models of a believe a 93 had two engines it was called the monster and it was factory built neat but they were two stroke three cyl which isn't much to today's standards
http://www.saabmuseum.com/monster/index.html

Spike
16-09-02, 03:42 AM
i have heard of these citroens befor. they were 2cv, they were called Safaris. i know a v8 is heavy so i went back to the drawing board and came up with the all-wheel-drive system of a Subi (Subaru) but i can't find any information onwidth of the engine, which i see as the only limiting factor, as strong points in the floor can be fabricated.
as allways open for comments.
spike.

tom
16-09-02, 03:48 AM
Why don't just buy a subaru? I hate when somebody is trying to make a saab into somekind of hybrid.

Janne Selinummi
16-09-02, 05:58 AM
Of course, originality is always a plus, but when one is tuning a turbocharged, front wheel drive Saab to produce, say, over 300 hp and 400 Nm of torque, 4WD system easily comes in mind without much thinking... :)
I know for sure that I will never build a 4WD c900, but if Saab had ever made the c900 with optional 4WD, I would most certainly retro-fit that system! Now I just have to do with FWD, even if that means a LOT of tyre smoke and huge expenses on a heavy-duty gearbox. After all, fitting a 4WD system from another make of automobile, would cause expenditure to skyrocket, and as my current tuning plan already includes frightful amounts of money "wasted", I know I couldn't live with that.

V.J.S
16-09-02, 06:40 AM
I'm not that against of a 4WD SAAB, but a big V8 engine is IMO completely against SAAB principles. You know, smallish and quite economical engine, which is powerful when performance is demanded through the turbocharger technology. That's why I think that the 1,6 litre variable compression engine is definately a SAAB-way of thinking.

-Ville

Spike
16-09-02, 07:38 AM
WHY NOT!
I will go through the points made.
The two engines will weigh just as much almost as an all alloy v8.(87SPGIN)
Subies are expencive and common, and personaly i think saabs handle better and look nicer.(tom)
Originality.(now we are geting somewhere, thankyou Janne Selinummi)How many people, even Saabnuts like yourselves can say "i've seen a 4WD saab sleeper".
More traction, waste people at the lights.
Components that stand up to abuse.
and with the parts from a old turbo Libity for cheap from a Jap wreaker.(Janne Selinummi)
Also, fuel consuption goes down due to the "lean out" function in the management system.
It is also only a 2 litre, with more grunt for less.
see you later, spike

Janne Selinummi
16-09-02, 07:48 AM
About expenses growing bigger with a 4WD setup - yes, you can get the system itself quite cheaply out of an old Subaru or Audi, but the components as they are, will not be able to handle the huge torque of a turbo engine tuned to mad spec...
That would mean reinforcing all the 4WD components - the gearbox, differentials, propeller shaft, drive shafts and joints - the list goes on. With FWD, I can concentrate the expenses to make best possible use of the original configuration, by investing in a goog gearbox, limited-slip differential and reinforced drive shafts. This will eventually end up much cheaper than upgrading a complete 4WD system, along with installing one on a c900 in the first place.

Even with the sick power figures that I have in mind, the full power would only be in use quite rarely, mostly in competition events, such as drag races. With turbocharged engines, one major plus is the inherent adjustability of the engine's characteristics. With a N/A engine, you just won't be able to adjust engine power with a push of a button, between, say, 200 and 400 hp. With electrically adjustable boost control systems, one can get a good, friendly cruiser in the same package as the fire-breathing drag monster one always wishes for... :)

Spike
17-09-02, 01:47 AM
but if you take the whole engine and drive train then it is designed with that motor in mind.

Matthew
17-09-02, 08:32 AM
How about fitting a supercharger on a T16 engine? Lancia had considerable success with this approach on the Delta S4 (combined turbo/super charger), with 480BHP from 1800cc 8)

tom
17-09-02, 08:57 AM
A friend of mine is planning to supercharge his 900i 8 valver. I haven't discussed any details with him though.

87SPGIN
17-09-02, 10:07 AM
its fun to sit back and listen for a bit, one gets some good ideas another might be why don't we all get together and build a car from the saab principal i would love a car the has stainless steel body panels (no worries about rust)this is something audi came up with; i would enjoy a turbocharged engine they are fun to tinker with and have the variability of power that Janne was mentioning; a 4Wd system would be spectacular not to say it would permit saab into the offroad arenas :wink: but traction is a great thing; and the tranny why couldn't saab come up with something like the GM r400 trans its great but yeah i know its a domestic thing but we have one of the longest lasting cars on the road and would be great to have some of the above listed items to make our daily driving experience that more enjoyable just some thoughts.

Janne Selinummi
17-09-02, 11:30 AM
Combining turbocharging and supercharging is a possibility, but it is very difficult to make that kind of a setup work properly, and in many ways, it's an obsolete combo. With today's turbocharger technology one can get great results using just the turbocharger, which is why combining the two methods isn't seen anymore, even in those sports where engine modifying is more free.
Nowadays, turbocharged rally cars use ALS (anti-lag system) to do what Lancia did with the supercharger - they inject some fuel in the exhaust manifold, either by a special injector, or through "over fuelling" when throttle plate is closed. The fuel in the manifold will then combust inside the turbine housing, keeping the turbo spinning at full speed. A dump valve is fitted to dump the extra air that the turbo forces towards the throtlle plate. With ALS, you get zero lag, and the car becomes as driveable as N/A cars.
ALS is not, however, suitable for street cars, as the fuel combusting in the turbine housing will quickly destroy the turbine wheel, leading to very frequent turbo repairs - this of course, is not a problem in racing cars.

If one does choose to combine supercharging and turbocharging, there has to be a twin-path system for the force-fed airflow: In low revs and load, when turbo has not yet spooled up, the air passes through the supercharger, which compresses the air. When revs rise and turbo starts to do its job, the supercharger must be actively blocked from the airflow path, because the turbo will compress gradually more and more air as the engine load rises, whereas the efficiency of the supercharger will drop with revs. Soon the supercharger will not be able to feed the turbo as much air as it needs to operate at its own efficiency rate, and thus, the supercharger would only become a flow obstacle when the turbo tries to blow full boost. Lancia had exactly this kind of system in their Delta S4 rally car, but it was very complex, and sealing the opening/closing plates of the supercharger pathway proved a challenge.

stigs
18-09-02, 12:21 AM
The Scooby motor is quite wide because it's a flat-four &amp; also designed to sit low in the engine compartment...another thing is the infamous glass gearbox of Scooby,look on iclub.com &amp; you'll see WRX owners whining about gearbox failure(many of which are totally stock)-a bunch of the Scooby guys who mod their cars must go to ultr-expensive Australian made dogboxes to handle the torque/power.

Better to put a Saab T16 motor in a MG or Fiat spider,than to put a V8 inna Saab.

To retain purity,you could go with a Scania V8-14 litre &amp; 530BHP
:lol:

stigs
18-09-02, 01:00 AM
http://www.v8power.nl/v8truck.jpg
http://www.scania.com/ms/events/010112/photos/LOW/082.jpg

stigs
18-09-02, 01:12 AM
Well yaknow,I say more power to ya!(literally!)
It'd be kickass,but alotta work.

Saab has always been hybridized anyway=
2stroke=DKW knockoff
V4=German Ford Taunus motor
99 1.85=Triumph motor
new 900=Opel :lol:

Here in the states,theres been a couple of people to do that--implanted Mustang 5.0 V8---I must say they look tough w/ the big wide low offset wheels...I wish I could ride in one,to see how it goes!

A friend of mine let me drive his 'stang Cobra once &amp; hoo-boy,talk about a kick in the pants!!!-dig that cable clutch too-in 'n out!

Did Scooby make light V8 motors?-I'm clueless!

I think an AWD V8 og900 would be a first!

Smackrazor
18-09-02, 01:59 AM
What is a dogbox?

Janne Selinummi
18-09-02, 02:25 AM
A non-synchronized racing gearbox with straight-cut cog wheels

stigs
18-09-02, 02:28 AM
dogbox=straight-cut gears as opposed to helical cut gears.

no synchronizers,so rev-matching &amp; double-declutching is good to know.

mostly used in motorsport application-rarely used for street-app...I think it's cool the Scooby guys use dogboxes in a daily driver...they're loud &amp; whiney...the same sound you hear the gears making while you're driving in reverse.

phriedom
09-10-02, 10:03 PM
Well, if you like V8 powered RWD cars and want something different, I guess a SAAB (with its classy style, good handling, nice interior) isn't a bad choice. If you have a machine shop and welding skills, fitting a venerable Chevy 350 into a Saab shouldn't be much harder than fitting it into a '32 Ford coupe. I have seen a SAAB converted to RWD for Ice-racing. And I've seen a very nice Volvo 740 wagon with a chevy 350 in it, but Volvo's are already RWD and have huge engine bays. But I think that if you just want to make a Saab "cool" and "different" you might be better off keeping the drivetrain all Saab. The car will handle worse with the extra weight of a V8 in front. Instead, perhaps you should focus your efforts customizing the exterior/interior. I've never seen a chopped Saab, for example, or one with airbags/hydrolics. I haven't seen a Saab with scallops and pinstriping, or even flames. Body Mods seem to be limited to front air dams and rear spoilers, or Aero-like rocker panels. There is plenty of room to really customize a Saab without changing the drivetrain. I will agree though that AWD would be sweet if you could pull it off, just don't forget to stiffen the chassis if you do.

Spike
13-10-02, 07:58 PM
ah at last, i haven't been able to repliy.
first, what is ice racing, i have never heard of it, is it just circut racing os studed tyers in ice.
the only reason i whanted to do this is it is a)different, b)i love the note from a v8.
i just what a car that can hold its own with my mates.
also on the weight there is a company making Lotous 7 with Gen 111 engines in them. the all alloyof them means it doesn't stuffup the weight, i just what a motor light like that, seeya.

phriedom
14-10-02, 01:25 AM
Yes, you have it exactly. The Ice-racing Saab that I saw was for simple ovals tracks on a frozen lake. I have seen much more difficult circuit ice-racing on the TV involving very small cars with 4WD and 700 Horsepower. This RWD Saab was not in that class.

An all-aluminum alloy V8 plus drivetrain, plus at least some new suspension sounds like an expensive and labor intensive task. But more power to you. You would have quite a sleeper though, unless the lovely sound gives you away. It is possible that you might even wind up with a better weight distribution if you can get the V8 back between the front wheels and up against the firewall.

Spike
15-10-02, 01:35 AM
THAT'S IT your on the money now, it is just which motor is light enough, if i could even find a six, or four, SR20 from Nissan for example. all so, i know this is a bit unrelated, but does anyone know where i can get intrican specs for motors, i have looked in search engines but cannot find a thing, espeacaly interested in a P76 leland. thanks a million