Intercooler Kit 9-3 SS at GenuineSaab [Archive] - SaabCentral Forums

: Intercooler Kit 9-3 SS at GenuineSaab


finwake
13th March 2004, 01:29 AM
Has anyone looked at or installed the Intercooler Kit seen at genuinesaab.com? Please comment on performance characteristics, realized or potential improvement, how an intercooler helps, etc...

http://www.genuinesaab.com/detail.asp?product_id=518019

http://www.genuinesaab.com/cat/518019.jpg

moz
13th March 2004, 01:46 AM
http://www.saabcentral.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=17022&highlight=intercooler

sjhudon
13th March 2004, 06:05 PM
Could have just said no. :roll: :cheesy:

finwake
15th March 2004, 01:14 AM
Indeed, the other post stream provides a whole lot of no information.

Seems to suggest no one is particularly interested in the device...

Anyone? :-?

joshd2012
15th March 2004, 01:20 AM
Its not high on my list, but I will be taking a look at it in the future. It will definitely help performance wise, and I plan on doing everything possible to the car to beef up performance. Its just not high up on the list right now.

Daly Saab
16th March 2004, 12:05 AM
Now if someone sold an iced intercooler... That I'd buy

CallipNCSUsaab
16th March 2004, 12:10 AM
can this really help that much.. I get the principle but how does it improve performance/help?

finwake
16th March 2004, 01:37 AM
And does the 9-3 already have an intercooler and this one is better? i.e. is this an upgrade or an enhancement...?

I did find this information right here at SAAB Central:
Tech.Help > Saab Performance and Tuning > Intercooler FAQ's -- http://www.bellintercoolers.com/Pages/tech.asp
The FAQ states:


How does the intercooler affect the power output of the engine?

Power is dependent on the density of the air charge. By decreasing the temperature the intercooler increases air charge density, therefore, the power is increased. Typically, the magnitude of the increase will be between 10 and 20% for the average (street) boost pressures.

joshd2012
16th March 2004, 02:40 AM
As I understand it, the stock intercooler has the input and output on the same side. This makes it restricted somewhat because it has to do a u turn and come back. The upgraded one is a better flowing system. That is where you will see the performance increase... in the easier flow.

CallipNCSUsaab
16th March 2004, 03:31 AM
hmm.. I thought it didNT do the u turn.. grr.

finklejag
16th March 2004, 03:33 AM
Yes, Josh is correct. Most aftermarket FMIC are crossflows. My local mechanic said there is plenty of room infront of the radiator. The current IC is located between the radiator and AC condenser. With the aftermarket IC infront of the radiator, it will bring in more cool air.

WASAAB
17th March 2004, 11:41 PM
With the aftermarket IC infront of the radiator, it will bring in more cool air.
Yes..true..however, Radiator will be blocked by FMIC and Engine might overheat.. :roll: :wink:

mbodo
18th March 2004, 01:38 AM
With the aftermarket IC infront of the radiator, it will bring in more cool air.
Yes..true..however, Radiator will be blocked by FMIC and Engine might overheat.. :roll: :wink:

Umm, change the thermostat so it opens at a lower temperature.

Nick T mentioned he was working on a prototype FMIC for our cars.. I'm waiting for that one.

RED
21st March 2004, 02:34 AM
Umm, change the thermostat so it opens at a lower temperature.

Ummmm, No. The correct solution is to increase the cooling capacity of the radiator, since the thermal load is now higher under all conditions.

mbodo
21st March 2004, 06:13 PM
Umm, change the thermostat so it opens at a lower temperature.

Ummmm, No. The correct solution is to increase the cooling capacity of the radiator, since the thermal load is now higher under all conditions.

I suppose if there was room to do that, it would be a good idea, right?

nestoraero
21st March 2004, 06:22 PM
Would it be possible for someone to get a pic of the stock ic,just for comparison with the after market one??? :roll:
I don't know to much about ic's,so it would be very helpfull.,.. :wink:

LinearSLT
21st March 2004, 09:54 PM
Is it really true that the stock IC is not a cross-flow on the 9-3SS ??? It's still too cold here to poke around, but I find it remarkable that on a 'clean sheet' design that Saab would do this.

On my 1995 NG900 replacing the stock IC with a VIggen IC (cross-flow) made a big difference in spoolup times and sustainability of peak boost. I have to think that if the IC were mounted in front of the radiator it would help a lot on the 9-3 SS. Also the IC is not as high as the radiator, so the screening effect should be smaller than you think.

RED
22nd March 2004, 01:03 PM
I suppose if there was room to do that, it would be a good idea, right?

Exactly. But if the engine overheats (due to this type of mod), you have no other choice at all. Why? Lowering the thermostat temperature will only make the engine run cooler than designed when that is physically possible (radiator capacity, thermal load, ambient conditions). It will still run "hot" whenever the radiator capacity is exceeded. So not only does this NOT solve the original problem, it creates another potential problem by forcing the engine to run at a lower "off design" temperature, whenever it is not actually overheating! Running "cold" can cause all sorts of problems - it depends on the engine map as to whether this happens.

finwake
22nd March 2004, 03:17 PM
Maybe I am missing something here, but the Intercooler as shown above is specifically designed for the 9-3 SS... Wouldn't we think that they have broached any radiator conflicts and designed the mod in such a way as to be sure this is not an issue?

Hey, anyone have a picture of the stock IC yet? I have nice weather, maybe I can give it a shot... if I can find it...!

mbodo
23rd March 2004, 12:40 AM
it creates another potential problem by forcing the engine to run at a lower "off design" temperature,

... and I suppose anything else we're doing in this forum is within original design specs ;-)

RED
23rd March 2004, 01:28 AM
... and I suppose anything else we're doing in this forum is within original design specs

Hey, it's a hobby; muck around all you want. 8) But if you want to ENGINEER modifications so that they do not create a host of other problems, then this should be a "heads up". Engine mapping is very complex, and a DIY/piecemeal approach is not the most effective way to create horsepower. Force the engine to run too cold, and the car will not be faster, it will always be in warmup mode. :o Not a good thing.

Thus my one and only point on this thread - the "simple" thermostat fix is just plain disinformation. Now I just happen to run a "colder" thermostat on my '86 SVO ... because it allows all my other mods to produce just a bit more power than otherwise, and because older turbo cars are much easier to "remap" with (fairly) simple component engineering. But yea; the radiator is sized for the bigger job.

What about the other issue: is the new thermal load a problem? Probably not, because Finwake is right: any component specifically engineered for the car will have already dealt with the consequences. Well, from any rightous supplier, anyway. They might only provide guidelines for other mods that will be required in order to use the product in the real world, or they will sell it as part of a system (often in "stages" of performance). The latter is the way to go, IMHO.

mbodo
23rd March 2004, 01:36 AM
Hey, it's a hobby; muck around all you want. But if you want to ENGINEER modifications so that they do not create a host of other problems,

.. which brings me back to my point, I somehow doubt these mods are engineered with longevity in mind. I think we all agree that a thermostat "fix" is a bandaid on a larger "problem", and that a real "solution" is only a lot more time and money away.

RED
23rd March 2004, 01:47 AM
which brings me back to my point, I somehow doubt these mods are engineered with longevity in mind.

Brother, that is for sure! :o Hot-Rodding a modern engine IS rocket science, and I would encourage anyone thinking about it to stick with the most reputable vendors available. Companies with LONG experience and reputations to protect. Even then, I would not volunteer to be a "beta", get my drift? I would want some real world time on other peoples engines before I took the plunge myself.

Why do you think I haunt this forum in the first place? :cheesy:

finwake
28th March 2004, 09:54 PM
Okay:

someone out there knows where the current intercooler and surely will either describe the location, take a picture, or provide a circle around it or its home area in an engine diagram or picture... okay!! :cheesy:

finklejag
28th March 2004, 09:58 PM
Its between the radiator and AC condenser. You can't see it from above. You have to remove the lower skidplate, and then you can see it.

LinearSLT
30th March 2004, 06:20 PM
And yes, could somebody confirm that the stock intercooler is a cross flow design and not a 'U-turn' system ?

finklejag
30th March 2004, 06:55 PM
I'm 99% sure it is not a crossflow design.

LinearSLT
1st April 2004, 10:05 AM
Wrong ! The intercooler on the stock 9-3SS is in fact a crossflow design. I got an illustrated parts list of e-bay and it's clear as day. I'll post a pic when I get a chance. The inlet and outlet come at an odd angle (from the bottom) into the plenums on both sides, but in general, it's not a bad design.

mike saunders
13th April 2004, 06:37 PM
About that pic....

Linear, please post it if you find it as I'm planning to use the tubing from the SS IC in a 900 SET...

mike saunders
24th April 2004, 08:36 PM
Bumping this.

Linear, I'm curious about that pic. I just bought a supposed 9-3SS intercooler for $75 and it isn't the flow-through model. I think this weasel cheated me....

EarthDweller
21st June 2005, 12:52 AM
Does anyone know at what temperature the stock thermostat opens
for the 93SS. Im not sure whether its same across the board. thks

Bladey
21st June 2005, 06:26 AM
Does anyone know at what temperature the stock thermostat opens
for the 93SS. Im not sure whether its same across the board. thks

there is definate room for improvement in the stock intercooler.. as part of the stage 2 Hirsch upgrade they upgrade the intercooler.. ecu, zorst, intercooler... 252 hp.. split that up.. 20 hp for the chip. 10hp of the exhaust, and the rest maybe thanks to the intercooler?